X10 Community Forum
🖥️ActiveHome Pro => ActiveHome Pro General => Topic started by: tom j on January 01, 2007, 09:39:01 PM
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Hi guys well Happy New Year! Got a problem with my Dusk Dawn timers, all my other timers work perfectly except the dust, dawn which are all off, by about 8 minutes for example here in Michigan the program indicates dusk occurs at 8:05 but my timers actually don't occur until about 8 minutes latter, around 8:13 ( I'm aware this changes depending on the resolution) . I was initially told this was a hardware problem so I sent back my Activehome Pro which was under warranty and the new one still has the same problem so I'm now convinced this is a software problem. If I deselect the dusk timer and just leave the timer at 8:05 it works perfectly so go figure????? :- I waited until I felt all the bugs had basically been resolved before I made this purchase I remember when AHP first came out the timers wouldn't work at all so I figured after two years that it would function correctly, anybody got any idea whats going on I have the latest version of the software I believe 3.204. Another thing I've noticed is the latitude and longitude is different then what was originally in the old Activehome although I don't know if this has anything to do with it, I do know the latitude and longitude here in Michigan hasn't changed. Hoping someone can help me pin this problem down. Thanks
Tom j
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I noticed if I have Lifestyles enabled in AHP that my timers set to dusk and dawn don't always run on time. It never really bothered me since the dusk/dawn time is constantly changing.
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tom j: If your latitude & longitude are now different (in AHP that is), you should be able to enter the correct coordinates. Because of the changing Dusk / Dawn times, there will be some difference from what you see and when the events happen. I haven't played much with them in timers, but maybe the resolution setting in the Hardware Configuration window will affect the time differences.
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tom j: If your latitude & longitude are now different (in AHP that is), you should be able to enter the correct coordinates. Because of the changing Dusk / Dawn times, there will be some difference from what you see and when the events happen. I haven't played much with them in timers, but maybe the resolution setting in the Hardware Configuration window will affect the time differences.
Thanks for your help, Hum-mm :- you're saying that even though the dusk timer says that dusk occurs at for example for today at 5:16 there's noting wrong if it actually comes on at say 5:20? I really don't understand? for example if say Saturday I run the program with the usb port hooked up to Active Home Pro at 5:15 and it says for that day dusk occurs at 5:20 you're saying it's nothing wrong with the program if it actually comes on say 10 minutes latter???. I would think the time that's displayed is for that specific day if not what use would it be? Also I would have thought the resolution would of been factored into the calculculation see displayed for that particular day, but that's a good observation! you would think if that were the case that it would be pointed out in the instructions. Thanks!!!
Tom j
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...even though the dusk timer says that dusk occurs at for example for today at 5:16 there's noting wrong if it actually comes on at say 5:20?
I'll have to set up a timer and observe it over a few days, just to see it's characteristics. I don't know if it changes to a different fixed time daily, or does it take the time shown in the hardware configuration and do the daily math behind the scenes. And another question I'd like to answer, does it adjust the time based on where you are located in your time zone using the geographic coordinates? (I.E. Dusk on the west side of the time zone should occur 1 hour after Dusk on the east side... with varying times between.) Your PC will display the time for the whole time zone, but Dusk & Dawn will actually vary throughout it.
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...even though the dusk timer says that dusk occurs at for example for today at 5:16 there's noting wrong if it actually comes on at say 5:20?
I'll have to set up a timer and observe it over a few days, just to see it's characteristics. I don't know if it changes to a different fixed time daily, or does it take the time shown in the hardware configuration and do the daily math behind the scenes. And another question I'd like to answer, does it adjust the time based on where you are located in your time zone using the geographic coordinates? (I.E. Dusk on the west side of the time zone should occur 1 hour after Dusk on the east side... with varying times between.) Your PC will display the time for the whole time zone, but Dusk & Dawn will actually vary throughout it.
Hi Puck thanks for your help! looking forward to what you find out, what I've noticed is that the change is gradual and the time change occurs over days for example if you start changing the date of your computers configuration you will see that it doesn't change daily at least if you use the default every eight days resolution, one other thing that leads me to think the time that's displayed is supposedly the time the timer is suppose to occur is that you can add a dusk dawn delay for example for my hallway lights the dusk delay is I think 10 minutes latter so currently the on time is 5:27 pm if you didn't have these offsets I could see that possibly time shown would be the actual calculated dusk time not taking into account the level of resolution but because you can change the aamount of delay and have the time displayed I think the time you see is the actual dusk/dawn time with the resolution factored in. Please let me know what you find out think I'll write x10 priority support and see what they say I'll post their response as soon as I receive one.
Tom j
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Hi There all...
my first post, I hope it's on-point -
A suggestion, instead of using the problematic AHP to trigger the dusk/dawn functions, just set a motion-sensor as the trigger for your macro. I have a few lights which have that going...
Dusk, D4 (living room lamp) and D5 (front door light) ON
23:30 D4 Off
Dawn D5 Off
Just using an eagle/hawk eye and taking advantage of that feature within it.
I would think you could adjust your macros/timers and unselect dusk/dawn, and just use a sensor, I'm sure you've got a spare somewhere, and put it outside without a primary module assigined; just using it for the d/d feature.
Hope this is a decent suggestion, and yes I know that is using hardware to solve a software problem, but I am pretty sure that's what all AHP people have come do resort to now and then ;)
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Hi There all...
my first post, I hope it's on-point -
A suggestion, instead of using the problematic AHP to trigger the dusk/dawn functions, just set a motion-sensor as the trigger for your macro. I have a few lights which have that going...
Dusk, D4 (living room lamp) and D5 (front door light) ON
23:30 D4 Off
Dawn D5 Off
Just using an eagle/hawk eye and taking advantage of that feature within it.
I would think you could adjust your macros/timers and unselect dusk/dawn, and just use a sensor, I'm sure you've got a spare somewhere, and put it outside without a primary module assigined; just using it for the d/d feature.
Hope this is a decent suggestion, and yes I know that is using hardware to solve a software problem, but I am pretty sure that's what all AHP people have come do resort to now and then ;)
Hi yep I thought about that good idea though was going to use my sundowner but after spending a small fortune on this stuff I would just like it to work as advertised. I just received a e-mail from x10 and Eric said the time that's displayed by the program is the actual time the timer should occur and that the resolution is factored into the equation. Please see below.
Tom j
From x10 Support:
Greetings!
"In other words is what you see what you get."
Yes. If you have any more questions, please reply to this email. Thanks
for choosing X10!
Eric Boyd
ericb@x10.com
X10 Email Support
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Just got this response from x10 but I don't know if I'm buying this they first said that the time you see in the program is the actual time the timer is suppose to occur. Seems like the program would or at least should be sophisticated enough to factor this in so that the time that's shown is the time the event is suppose to actually occur. What do you guys think? :-
Tom j
from x10 support
Greetings!
As it gets toward the end of an 8-day period, you will see the times starting to run a little later. If you have any more questions, please reply to this email. Thanks for choosing X10!
Eric Boyd
ericb@x10.com
X10 Email Support
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Just got this response from x10 but I don't know if I'm buying this they first said that the time you see in the program is the actual time the timer is suppose to occur. Seems like the program would or at least should be sophisticated enough to factor this in so that the time that's shown is the time the event is suppose to actually occur. What do you guys think? :-
Tom j
from x10 support
Greetings!
As it gets toward the end of an 8-day period, you will see the times starting to run a little later. If you have any more questions, please reply to this email. Thanks for choosing X10!
Eric Boyd
ericb@x10.com
X10 Email Support
From personal experience:
I use a dusk timer with a minus 1 hour offset to turn on the living room lamp before it gets too dark.
It does appear to "drift" a little as it approches the next date for which the hardware config shows a new time.
I can't say for sure if it drifts daily, or what, but it does appear to slowly drift toward the next "explicit" time shown in the hardware config.
This is just personal observation when I'm home near dusk (mostly in the summer).
Anyone willing to take the time to verify this?
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I can't say for sure if it drifts daily, or what, but it does appear to slowly drift toward the next "explicit" time shown in the hardware config.
This is just personal observation when I'm home near dusk (mostly in the summer).
Anyone willing to take the time to verify this?
Bill: I have a timer set starting today to check for any time drift from the displayed times. I say times because I do see different times when comparing the Hardware Configuration & the actual timer.
(I didn't forget about you Tom. ;) Had to get my set-up changes completed.)
Today is day 2 of the eight day resolution in my hardware configuration, so over the next few days I will document all the times and post back when I get some data.
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I can't say for sure if it drifts daily, or what, but it does appear to slowly drift toward the next "explicit" time shown in the hardware config.
This is just personal observation when I'm home near dusk (mostly in the summer).
Anyone willing to take the time to verify this?
Bill: I have a timer set starting today to check for any time drift from the displayed times. I say times because I do see different times when comparing the Hardware Configuration & the actual timer.
(I didn't forget about you Tom. ;) Had to get my set-up changes completed.)
Today is day 2 of the eight day resolution in my hardware configuration, so over the next few days I will document all the times and post back when I get some data.
God bless ya Puck really really appreciate your help! I just been tearing my hair out over this, yes I know it's not that serious or the end of the world but it's that I keep getting different explanations from x10 and it's very frustrating if this is the way the product was designed fine but I feel they should at least point this out in the manual or the knowledge base. Here's there latest one please see below. As of today all my timers are off by 9 minutes, with a resolution of 1.5% or every 8 days. Thanks Puck!!!!
Tom j
From x10: Granularity I thought that ment having a grainy surface or containing grains or granules, see what I mean ::)
Greetings!
There is always going to be some "granularity" in the dusk/dawn
behavior. If you have any more questions, please reply to this email. Thanks
for choosing X10!
Eric Boyd
ericb@x10.com
X10 Email Support
http://kbase.x10.com/
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Tom: Here is what I observed over the past 4 days.
Under tools/hardware configuration the Dusk Time between 01/09-01/17 shows 17:03 (5:03pm).
The following are the Dusk Times the Timers showed and the actual time that the Timer triggered:
Day Timer Dusk Time Actual Trigger Time
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Jan 10 4:53pm 5:03pm
Jan 11 4:55pm 5:03pm
Jan 12 4:55pm 5:03pm
Jan 13 4:57pm 5:03pm
So it appears, in my setup up anyways, whatever time the hardware config shows is when the Timer triggers. It just doesn't make since why the timer's time changes (almost) daily but isn't actually used. ???
As you can see, at the start of the 8-day resolution, the Timer looks like it is 10 minutes late.
Hopefully someone else will do a test and see if they get the same results or something different.
(AHP Ver. 3.206, Win2K)
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I've been using the dusk/dawn timer for a backyard light and a bedroom air cleaner for 3+ months and the dawn off time has been on the mark. I can't vouch for the dusk on time since I'm not home when it occurs weekdays, but on weekends it appears to be correct. My dusk/dawn resolution in hardware configuration is set to every 2 days.
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Thanks for the input delibaker, I'm going to change my resolution to 2 days also to see if the actual trigger time is closer to the Timer's display time.
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I happened to get home early today and the dusk timers went off at 16:57 as scheduled. The hardware config screen that shows the date range of 1/13 - 1/15 (today) with a dawn time 07:16 and a dusk time of 16:55 and the date range of 1/15 - 1/17 with a dawn time of 07:16 and a dusk time of 16:57. Notice that the "2" day resolution is actually 3 days 1/13, 1/14, 1/15 and 1/15, 1/16, 1/17. My computer is off during the day so I don't have a record of the dusk timers but I'll check the activity log during this week to see when the dawn timers fire and post the results.
BTW, I tried to attach a screen shot but the board reports that the upload file is full.
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Tom: Here is what I observed over the past 4 days.
Under tools/hardware configuration the Dusk Time between 01/09-01/17 shows 17:03 (5:03pm).
The following are the Dusk Times the Timers showed and the actual time that the Timer triggered:
Day Timer Dusk Time Actual Trigger Time
=====================================
Jan 10 4:53pm 5:03pm
Jan 11 4:55pm 5:03pm
Jan 12 4:55pm 5:03pm
Jan 13 4:57pm 5:03pm
So it appears, in my setup up anyways, whatever time the hardware config shows is when the Timer triggers. It just doesn't make since why the timer's time changes (almost) daily but isn't actually used. ???
As you can see, at the start of the 8-day resolution, the Timer looks like it is 10 minutes late.
Hopefully someone else will do a test and see if they get the same results or something different.
(AHP Ver. 3.206, Win2K)
Thanks Puck that sound like what I've been experiencing my dusk timers being off by about 10 minutes, I thought it was just me but apparently this is a software issue. Actually x10 initially told me that this was a hardware related issue. Say Puck how do you know what part of the cycle you're in I'm using the 1.5 every 8 days resolution. Does it depend on when you download your setup into the interface or is it the the day of the month still a little confused on this hoping you can clear it up for me and I think Great work delibaker! I'll switch my resolution to two days also to see if it better matches the time displayed by the program. Seems like x10 could have pointed this out in the instructions, but that's x10 for ya I guess. Thanks Puck, we'll have to compare notes in a few days.
Tom j
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Hi Tom,
I'll leave my computer running for the remainder of the week to capture the log file thru Saturday 1/20. I'm curious to find out what happens when the timers fire on Friday 1/19, hw config shows 1/17 - 1/19 dawn at 07:15 and dusk at 17:00, the 1/19 - 1/21 shows dawn at 07:13 and dusk at 17:01. Strange that a 2 day resolution covers 3 days! Only at X10!
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Hi Tom,
I'll leave my computer running for the remainder of the week to capture the log file thru Saturday 1/20. I'm curious to find out what happens when the timers fire on Friday 1/19, hw config shows 1/17 - 1/19 dawn at 07:15 and dusk at 17:00, the 1/19 - 1/21 shows dawn at 07:13 and dusk at 17:01. Strange that a 2 day resolution covers 3 days! Only at X10!
Thanks a lot I think that will probably answer a lot of questions, seems like two of my dusk timers fired on time with the 2 day resolution will check the other two tomorrow. Say how do you know what part of the cycle you're in for example using a resolution of every eight days 1.5% how do you determine the beginning of the cycle is it the day you initially download the file into the interface or does it start at the beginning of the month just want to make sure I'm in syn with the rest of you guys in terms of my interpretation. Thanks
Tom j
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Oh I see you just look at the date range in the hardware configuration right oops well silly me, that is correct though right? Guess I just over looked that. Thanks!
Tom j
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I did a 4 day test with the 2 day resolution. Same results just closer times.
Day H/W Config. Dusk Time Timer Dusk Time Actual Trigger Time
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Jan 14 5:01pm 4:58pm 5:01pm
Jan 15 5:03pm 5:01pm 5:03pm
Jan 16 5:03pm 5:03pm 5:03pm
Jan 17 5:07pm 5:03pm 5:07pm
As delibaker stated, there are 3 days shown for each hardware configuration time frame. My Dusk Times for these dates were:
- 01/13-01/15 - 17:01
- 01/15-01/17 - 17:03
- 01/17-01/19 - 17:07
So based on the times I am observing, just the first 2 days of each frame is valid. The third is not valid because it's the first in the next frame.
So unless someone shows a different result, I'd have to say ignore what the timer says for Dusk & Dawn and believe the times shown in the Hardware Configuration.
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Hi Tom,
I'll leave my computer running for the remainder of the week to capture the log file thru Saturday 1/20. I'm curious to find out what happens when the timers fire on Friday 1/19, hw config shows 1/17 - 1/19 dawn at 07:15 and dusk at 17:00, the 1/19 - 1/21 shows dawn at 07:13 and dusk at 17:01. Strange that a 2 day resolution covers 3 days! Only at X10!
That's what I first thought but it's only two, each day actually represents two days for example look at the 1st of the month 01/01 actually covers the period 01/01 to 01/02 then 01/03 picks up. At least that's the way I understand it. On the second day timers seems to be 2 minutes off completely wiped out the memory of the interface and will check again tomorrow really want to see what happens on day 2 of this 2 day cycle and compare it to delibaker's results. Thanks delibaker!!! can't wait to get to the bottom of his thing I like I'm sure a lot of you have spent some serious bucks on this stuff and I just want to make sure I can depend on it, I'm often out of town and that this is not a hardware problem like I had been originally told.
Tom j
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Ok, 4 days later here are the results =
Date Dawn Dusk
1/17 07:15 17:00
1/18 07:15 17:00
1/19 07:13 17:01
1/20 07:13 17:01
These times match the hw config settings exactly. Even though the 2 day resolution shows 3 days the last day, which also begins the next sequence, is ignored. When setting the dawn/dusk timer the times auto entered are close but you can't change them since they're checked but greyed out. I've tried searching for an .xml file with those entries but no luck. One thing that did check out is that the hw config times are related to your windows time zone setting and the hw config location setting.
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Ok, 4 days later here are the results =
Date Dawn Dusk
1/17 07:15 17:00
1/18 07:15 17:00
1/19 07:13 17:01
1/20 07:13 17:01
These times match the hw config settings exactly. Even though the 2 day resolution shows 3 days the last day, which also begins the next sequence, is ignored. When setting the dawn/dusk timer the times auto entered are close but you can't change them since they're checked but greyed out. I've tried searching for an .xml file with those entries but no luck. One thing that did check out is that the hw config times are related to your windows time zone setting and the hw config location setting.
OK let me make sure I got it straight if you choose the 2 day resolution the time displayed in the timer designer window will match the actual time the timer executes and also matches the time in the hardware configuration. And any other resolution the times displayed will be different from the actual time the timer occurs? Just want to make sure I got everything straight.
Thanks delibaker you've been a great help in sorting this thing out and I for one want to think you for your time, and yep you get a brownie point at least from me.
Tom j
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I use a dawn/dusk timer to turn on a phantom night/day module.
It is dead on the times that are listed in AHP for dawn/dusk.
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I use a dawn/dusk timer to turn on a phantom night/day module.
It is dead on the times that are listed in AHP for dawn/dusk.
Say what resolution are you using? and it's my understanding that you have to observe for a few days depending on what resolution you're using to really determine how accurate it really is.
Tom j
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Puck,
I live in Calgary, don't know your city not on profile except Alberta, believe you and I are on the same province. However, I tried a macro last night to turn on the laundry room between dusk and dawn when a sensor triggered, it worked last night pretty well. This morning around 10 a.m. when I needed to stuff the dirty clothes into the washer, the light turned on. It's way beyond the dawn time today around 7:52 a.m. A timer works, but not in macro. Can you throw in some thought?
Thanks,
VV
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Vandalized Victim: Nice to hear I'm not the only Albertan playing with X10. :D
I just want to be clear here on what your doing: Are you using the between time ranges condition in a macro triggered by the motion sensor ON?
If so, all I can suggest right now is double check your macro condition and make sure the CM15A is updated with the change (I strongly recommend doing a clear interface before downloading).
Another thought... your light isn't set to the same HC/UC as the motion sensor is it?
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Hi Puck (My Fellow Albertan),
First of all I'm not an expert, don't know what HC/UC means. I'm a victim of my house being vandalized. So I called myself Vandalized Victim. You know everytime Alberta goes properous, crime rate jumps.....King Ralph would tell the punks to go back where they belong.....Ed won't ::)
Anyway, yes, I chose between Time Range and selected starting at Dusk and ending at Dawn and triggered by a MS14A. I've been pulling out batteries, clearing CM15A memory for couple of times and the result is the same. I have phase coupler installed on the dryer and couple of noise filters (both 5W and 10W) plugged in everywhere, fridge, PCs, freezer.... I even have a WGL V572A installed for better RF transceiving. Cause I read your comments. ;) If permission allows, I'd love to visit your place to see how you'd really set up the gears. ;D
Thanks, VV
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...don't know what HC/UC means.
HC: House Code
UC: Unit Code
(The X10 address)
Your macro set up looks right, so all I can think of right now is that your light & motion sensor could be set to the same address. Then it wouldn't matter what your macro condition was set to, the light would always come on.
Yup... the political news has been boring since King Ralph retired.
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Puck,
Silly me, just didn't get used to the short form of HC/UC, simple as that. No, I didn't set to the same address, MS14A is M5 while the lights are socket rocket setting all in A. That must be the problem cause you advised not to use A & M. But like I said timer (only A for the lights on at night) was OK, just not on macro cause tried to use sensor to save some energy, previously on timer for turning on until bed time. Any reason why?
Thanks,
VV
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VV: Using A & M are ok, they just have the potential to be problem addresses... but definitely avoid A1.
You have me stumped on this one. If nothing else is triggering the light, then the time condition of the macro should be working cause it looks like you have it set right. If your macro is using ELSE's then strange things sometimes happen. If you can post a picture of the macro then maybe something might appear that will trigger another thought. Sometimes using a small delay (even zero seconds) can help with macros... but generally thats a remedy for when they don't trigger.
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Oddly enough, I've always had a A1 in my X10 system (it's a light in my Living room) and I've never, ever had a problem with it. It's been there since my first CP290 and has always worked flawlessly.
Noise has been the only problem I've ever encounted and any noise problems were fixed with the appropriate filter.
The only problem I ever had with transceivers was two RR501s that were colliding with each other. One was in the Living Room to receive RF signals from a SS13 and the other received signals from another SS13 in my Breakfast Room. The easy solution was to put the Breakfast Room and the Kitchen on Housecode F. No more collisions.
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Say what resolution are you using? and it's my understanding that you have to observe for a few days depending on what resolution you're using to really determine how accurate it really is. Tom j
Tom, if you were asking me, mine is set at daily ~13%