X10 Community Forum

🔌General Home Automation => Automating Your House => Topic started by: dan braasch on October 27, 2005, 11:47:05 PM

Title: Re: WS 467 [3 of 3] Energy Saver bulb flickers when off
Post by: dan braasch on October 27, 2005, 11:47:05 PM
I have 2 brands of CFL's in my house, 1 <BR>flickers, the other doesn't, using the same <BR>appliance module (I do not use lamp modules <BR>for CFL's). <BR> <BR>The "Feit" econobulb doesn't flicker, while <BR>the "Commercial Electric" ones do. I use <BR>the Commercial Electric CFL's where I don't <BR>have X-10 needs, since they can be cheaper <BR>in bulk-packs. <BR> <BR>I bought the Frit at Menard's, and the <BR>Commercial Electric at Home Depot.

WS467 [1 of 3] (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=6942.msg45255#msg45255)

Re: WS467 [2 of 3] (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=12384.msg45282#msg45282)

[TTA Edit: Experiment to determine whether or not SPLITTING 'Highly-Viewed' / 'Highly-Replied' but currently

INACTIVE threads from LONG, LONG AGO (I'm starting with ~2 years) into parts will allow current

ACTIVE threads to appear in the Top 10 Topics (by Replies) section of the

Statistics Center (aka More Stats) (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?action=stats) Page.

NOTE: I *WILL* address the <BR> problem...]
Title: Re: Energy Saver bulb flickers when off
Post by: dave w on October 28, 2005, 01:16:39 PM

FYI if interested. A simple fix is to plug a
7W nite light in the same appliance module
controlling the CFLs.
Title: Re: Energy Saver bulb flickers when off
Post by: dan braasch on October 28, 2005, 06:47:20 PM
I tried that (although I had a 4W nite lite
instead of a 7W) and it didn't work. I also
had tried to modify the appliance module by
deactivating the local control, and that
didn't work, either. For me, so far the
only thing that has worked was a different
brand CFL. It's possible that the 7W nite
lite would do it, but that partially
defeats the energy savings. I am using 13
watt CFL's (equivalent to 60 watt
incandescent), and that would make it a 20
watt useage. Still lower than the 60 inc. I
used to use, but extra wattage use anyway.
Title: Re: Energy Saver bulb flickers when off
Post by: Brian H on October 28, 2005, 07:22:12 PM
Dan; If you just cut the jumper shown in
many mod messages. It does not remove the
actual sensing current it just stops the CFL
from returning on the module. Some also show
the resistor to remove to completely stop
the sensing current.
Title: Re: Energy Saver bulb flickers when off
Post by: dan braasch on October 28, 2005, 08:12:14 PM
Ah, I'll have to look for that mod. Thanks,
Title: Re: Energy Saver bulb flickers when off
Post by: roger1818 on October 28, 2005, 11:50:07 PM
Brian is correct.  You need to disable the
current sense and not just local control.
There is a diode in the bottom left corner
of the appliance module that you need to
either cut or remove.  You can see a
picture of it at:

I have done this on several modules and it
works beautifully.  I would certainly lean
towards this mod rather than using a night
light (what is the point of using a 15W CFL
if you need to also have a 7W night light).

The reason this happens is unlike
incandescent lights which have a lower
resistance when off than they do when on,
CFLs have a much higher resistance
(impedance actually) when off than they do
when on.  If this resistance is
significantly higher than the series
resistor in the Appliance Module, the
voltage drop across the load will be high
enough to trigger the lamp to turn on.
Once on, the resistance drops, as does the
voltage drop across the load, causing the
bulb to turn off again.  This keeps
happening over and over again.
Title: Re: Energy Saver bulb flickers when off
Post by: dan braasch on October 29, 2005, 02:45:14 AM
Thanks for the detailed explanation and the
link, Roger!
Title: Re: Energy Saver bulb flickers when off
Post by: Brian H on October 29, 2005, 06:47:14 AM
Yes the diode is cut.
Side note: I compared the popular schematic
from S. Bloom to my modules and it is not
even close in the current sensing area to
Title: Re: Energy Saver bulb flickers when off
Post by: roger1818 on October 29, 2005, 06:56:34 PM
Brian:  Interesting!  Similarly I have
noticed a few differences between S.
Bloom's schematic of the Wall Switch and
the one from X10.  A wall switch I have
taken apart seems the same as the schematic
from X10.
Title: Re: I cant poll any two way devices
Post by: hector (newbie) on November 13, 2005, 01:44:38 PM
Thanks that worked. Its kind of anoying but
at least it works too bad the all lights on
command does not work!
Thanks again!
Title: Re: X10 Interference from other households
Post by: john martoccio on November 14, 2005, 06:37:09 AM
Are there any other devices (such as
Insteon) that seek out X10 used channels
and learn their pattern ?   I changed to
code "N", 2 weeks ago, and everything was
wonderful, then it started all over again.

I am still unable to get the electric
company to come out... I guess I just have
to break the seal on the meter myself.

The really frustrating part, is that my
computer must be on the opposite leg of the
transmitting household, so it doesn't
detect any foreign signals at all, or the
PZZ01, is only suppressing signals enough
for the HD11A interface not to detect them,
but the modules are more sensitive ?

Is there a way to search this forum, or it
this just another half-a**ed way to support
this almost-technology ?
Title: Re: WS467
Post by: mike on November 26, 2005, 11:20:39 PM
I'm a newbie to X10.  Someone tried to kick
our door in the other night so we are
setting up lots of stuff to discourage
folks.  We're using a WS467 to control 3
carriage lights.  Each light has 3 bulbs -
incandescent - 40 watts each.  The specs
say the WS467 can handle 500 watts.  Yet,
the module seems really hot.  I unscrewed 2
bulbs to lower the wattage but it didn't
seem to make a difference.  I did wonder
about the ground wire coming out of the
wall and attached it to the metal plate
although there are no instructions for the
ground.  Any suggestions?
BTW thanks for the suggestions on the lamp
modules that don't work in certain places.
I think our timed coffee maker has been
causing us a problem.
Title: Re: WS467
Post by: dave w on November 28, 2005, 01:19:07 PM
How hot is "really hot"?
Is it too hot to maintain finger contact?
Is it hot enough to blister your finger?
Does it smell hot?
Is it mounted in a metal wall box or a
plastic wall box? Metal box will provide
some additional heat sinking, if the module
is snugged down. Also a metal wall plate
will disipate heat.
If it "smells" hot or really burns your
finger, its probably too hot, otherwise is
probably normal. When X10 first came out
with the wall switch specked at 500W, metal
wall boxes were the norm and a lot of heat
sinking took place from the box. At 360
watts a warm switch is not surprising,
especially with a plastic box and plastic or
wood wall plate.
Title: Re: WS467
Post by: chuck h. on December 01, 2005, 10:21:59 AM
HOT can be REALLY HOT!  In my case, I've
hooked up a WS467 to a couple of soffit
receps into which I plugged Christmas
lights.  Last night, after about an hour, I
touched the wall plate and it was
incredibly hot.  Got the smell of plastic
burning, and that went away when I turned
them off.

Guess I need some education here, too.  Is
there a better replacement?  I certainly
don't need any dimming capability here, so
if something in the dimming capability is
causing the heat, I'm happy to understand
what a working option could be, here.

Thanks in advance.

Chuck H.
Title: Re: WS467
Post by: dave w on December 01, 2005, 12:32:49 PM
Chuck, If your definition of "really hot" is
melting, stinking plastic...thats really
hot. "Really Hot" is pretty relative. What
is the wattage of all your Christams lights?
A 100 light string is somewhere between 35
and 50 watts (I think). How many stings you
got burning?

Also, the WS467 DOES NOT LIKE inductive
loads. These new "Inflato Santa" lawn
decorations have large transformers to run
fans and low voltage lights in the balloon.

An alternative is to use an Appliance Module
on your Christmas lights (but NOT plugged
into a light controlled by the WS467).
Otherwise a wall switch designed for
inductive loads may be your answer (aka