X10 Community Forum

🖥️ActiveHome Pro => ActiveHome Pro General => Help & Troubleshooting => Topic started by: bill heink on March 12, 2007, 12:26:44 PM

Title: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: bill heink on March 12, 2007, 12:26:44 PM
Is anyone but me having a problem with my Active Home SW not updating for this year's early Daylight Savings Time transition?

I have a CM15A system, and was sure in the past it had automatically transitioned, especially the dawn and dusk times when DST occured.

Or am I alone out here?
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: tom j on March 12, 2007, 08:01:01 PM
How do you update XP to the new time change? Thanks

Tcj
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: -Bill- (of wgjohns.com) on March 12, 2007, 09:47:29 PM
Quote from: tom j on March 12, 2007, 08:01:01 PM
How do you update XP to the new time change? Thanks

Tcj

See this site at Microsoft Support: http://support.microsoft.com/gp/cp_dst (http://support.microsoft.com/gp/cp_dst)
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: Dan Lawrence on March 12, 2007, 10:38:15 PM
Do you have the Microsoft patch for the DST change and is the CM15A connected to the PC?

If so, the CM15A will get its time from the PC, you do need to clear its memory and reload all timers and macros to have them work at the appointed times.
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: icepick on March 12, 2007, 11:30:16 PM
For those of us that still use a Win98SE, WinME, or Win2000 operating system, will need to apply a patch for the new DST dates for ActiveHome Pro to work properly. Since Microsoft does not support these operating systems any longer, you can go to: http://www.intelliadmin.com/blog/2007/02/windows-98-me-dst-patch.html to download the patch.  It is a small patch that installs in seconds and works GREAT! Follow the prompts and instructions, and don't forget to update ActiveHome.
I did it last night and it now works great again.  It shows DST starting March 11, with the correct times.  No thanks to Microsoft, but a million thanks to IntelliAdmin for developing the patch.
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: mikeywebs on March 14, 2007, 07:54:15 PM
I have a VERY strange situation, and I would like some options to resolve it!

First, I do NOT download timers/macros into the interface; rather, it's hooked to a computer that's always on.

Second, the daylight savings time settings and updates were applied from Microsoft, and the time changed appropriately on Sunday.  Likewise, Activehomepro also shows the correct time, and looking at the Hardware configuration, it shows that the timezone is correct as Eastern Daylight Time with the correct time, etc.

Finally, the timers are showing the correct time that they should come on.  BUT...  they are all coming on one hour early.  I have deleted interface memory, restarted the computer, tried to reset the timer times, but they still come on one hour early.

I don't see how this can happen when the time it says it will come on is correct and the time in the program is correct, but it is.  In fact, I'm looking at my outside lights and they are on, and it's 7:43.  They are not supposed to come on until 8:13, but they're on.

Any ideas?  This is annoying!

HELP!

Mike
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: Dan Lawrence on March 14, 2007, 11:01:21 PM
Best suggestion I can give is to delete all the timers and reconstruct them.  Then clear the interface and reload all timers and macros.  Secondly, make sure Windows shows times in AM and PM, not 24 hour time.
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: Joel B Crabtree on March 15, 2007, 08:27:59 AM
   I am also having the same issue with timers.  I use the dawn and dusk functions. As of last Sunday morning the lights go off an hour early in the morning and come on an hour early at night. I feel that deleting and recreating the macros is not a valid solution.  The software should be changed to work properly in any time zone whether we are on or off DST. I have noticed that Time Zone: GMT setting on the Hardware Interface Configuration page is not set properly for todays date. I am in the Eastern Time Zone so as of last Sunday morning I should be GMT -4:00 or it should be GMT -5:00 DST .

   Right now the software is running correctly for the GMT setting. The over all issue is how the GMT setting is interpreted in the software.

   I am a Tech. Mgr. on several large IBM computer systems. When DST goes on or off I have to change the GMT offset to the appropriate setting. If it is not set properly, for an example, e-mails will be received with a time of an hour before they were sent or not be sent/received for an hour.

   I have been satisfactorily running this software for many years and have not had any problems with it up to this point. It should not be the responsibility of the user to make changes in their personal settings for the software to work correctly.
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: Dan Lawrence on March 15, 2007, 07:53:36 PM
Did you clear the interface on Sunday and reload alltimers and macros? The CM15 gets its time from Windows. DST is DST and is not depended on GMT as time zones are.

If you are in the Eastern Time Zone then the Hardware Configuration will report it as GMT -0400. As it was said in the Wizard of Oz, "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!"
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: tom j on March 16, 2007, 09:36:33 PM
Quote from: -Bill- (of BXVC) on March 12, 2007, 09:47:29 PM
Quote from: tom j on March 12, 2007, 08:01:01 PM
How do you update XP to the new time change? Thanks

Tcj

See this site at Microsoft Support: http://support.microsoft.com/gp/cp_dst (http://support.microsoft.com/gp/cp_dst)

Hi Bill had to give ya a point for that one!! boy yours are really adding up! Thanks Say I know I should probably know this but how do you know if you have service pack 2 installed. Thanks Bill!!

Tom
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: -Bill- (of wgjohns.com) on March 16, 2007, 11:17:19 PM
Thanks Tom, it's always nice to feel appreciated!

If you right-click on "My Computer" (on either the desktop or start menu) and then left-click "Properties" in the drop-down menu that should have popped up, it should tell you about your Windows version.  If you have Service Pack 2 installed, it will explicitly state "Service Pack 2" right below the XP version information under the heading "System:"

Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: nklght on March 25, 2007, 11:49:49 PM
I use win xp and have the cm-15 connected all the time, did not have a problem with dst.
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: Dan Lawrence on March 26, 2007, 05:23:12 PM
Likewise.

As soon as the Microsoft DST patch was applied to WindowsXP, the Hardware Configuration showed the time changes correctly, all my timers ran at the scheduled times.
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: david_l on April 02, 2007, 12:07:42 AM
My CM15 was an hour off today.
Is today the day DST used to kick in?

Plugged it into the computer, cleared memory, and redownloaded.  Hopefully that will take care of it (for now).

Wonder if they will update the thing so DST actually works without intervention.
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: nklght on April 02, 2007, 01:01:01 AM
I did run into a problem today with certain devices which were pre-programned with daylight savings time.  I have several clocks which are set at the factory, and just need an user to set the time zone and date, These devices did not advance with the new daylight savings time, so I had to bump them up an hour, now they are reading an hour fast.
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: Walt2 on April 02, 2007, 05:44:33 AM
My CM15A is an hour fast now too.   :'(

It seems it "adjusted" automatically, to the old DST rules this weekend.   

I had to plug it into my PC, and run AHP, to re-adjust it back to the correct time.   >:(
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: Walt2 on April 02, 2007, 05:46:26 AM
Quote from: david_l on April 02, 2007, 12:07:42 AM
My CM15 was an hour off today.
Is today the day DST used to kick in?

Plugged it into the computer, cleared memory, and redownloaded.  Hopefully that will take care of it (for now).

Wonder if they will update the thing so DST actually works without intervention.


Yep, same here.    :'(     

I did the same fix too.

I am real disappointed that X10 hasn't issued an update for this, before this weekend!    >:(
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: Brian H on April 02, 2007, 07:01:46 AM
Yes one of my VCRs did the samething. I reset it on the new data and forgot to set DST off. ::)
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: whsbuss on April 02, 2007, 07:29:56 AM
Based on no-fix from X10 on this issue, you will have to re-connect on the last Sunday in October to download your setting to be in-sync with the extra week of DST. So it will require a connect/download 4-times a year.
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: Walt2 on April 02, 2007, 07:40:10 AM
Quote from: whsbuss on April 02, 2007, 07:29:56 AM
So it will require a connect/download 4-times a year.

Unfortunately, there are few if any reminders about correcting clocks which incorrectly continue to change by 1 hour as per the old, obsolete, rules.  I mean, neither the newspaper nor radio nor TV reminded people to verify they clocks did NOT change this past weekend.


Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: Dan Lawrence on April 02, 2007, 08:13:39 AM
Since my Hardware Configuration shows both the beginning and end of DST correctly, I suspect on November 3 my timers will revert to Eastern Standard Time. AHP and the CM15A did not jump an hour ahead when the old DST date passed.

STOP WORRYING!!!!   It's a non-issue.  The CM15 gets it's time from Windows
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: jrubenstein on April 02, 2007, 08:33:34 AM
My CM15 was off by an hour also, starting yesterday.  I do not leave it connected to my computer, so I don't expect it to continuously get its time from Windows.  Over the past years, it always took care of Daylight Savings Time adjustments by itself.  But on 3/11/07 I had to fix it manually (connect it to the PC and set its clock).  Then yesterday it moved ahead an hour by itself ... obviously thinking DST started the first Sunday in April like the good old days.

So while it may work correctly if you leave it connected to the PC all the time, it does not work correctly if you leave it alone to do its thing by itself.  That may be why some think it works OK, and some (like me) are annoyed that we will have to make manual adjustments now four times/year.

I'm also hoping AHP comes up with a fix.  And I'll be interested if anybody sees it working correctly without being connected to a PC all the time.  (And if so, what version are you running?)
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: Walt2 on April 02, 2007, 08:42:53 AM
Quote from: Dan Lawrence on April 02, 2007, 08:13:39 AM
STOP WORRYING!!!!   It's a non-issue.  The CM15 gets it's time from Windows

Exactly how does the CM15 get its time from Windows? 

My PC is located in a different part of the house, and is powered-off except when in use. 

I will stop worrying when you can convince me that my CM15 will still continue get the correct time, because this weekend,  IT DID NOT.
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: jrubenstein on April 02, 2007, 08:47:15 AM
Oh ... and in case anybody's wondering ... I did clear the memory and download all macros and timers after March 11, 2007.  So if it was supposed to learn from Windows when DST now starts and ends, it didn't.  It still moved its time ahead an hour yesterday.
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: david_l on April 02, 2007, 09:32:45 AM
Quote from: Dan Lawrence on April 02, 2007, 08:13:39 AM
STOP WORRYING!!!!

???
I had to plug the thing in twice because of the early DST change.  I'm not worried, just annoyed.
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: robkwil61 on April 02, 2007, 10:11:02 AM
Yah, just when my CM11 started being correct (I never changed it), the CM15 is now off. 

Obviously the CM15 has some built in DST programming that X10 did not bother to patch.
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: murphy on April 02, 2007, 04:31:56 PM
My computer was updated and made the DST switch on March 11 just like it was supposed to.
The CM15A interface was downloaded with the new data after the computer was updated and prior to March 11.
The CM15A runs 100% of the time (except for downloads) disconnected from the computer.
On the morning of March 11 the timers fired 1 hour late.
I connected the CM15A to the computer and downloaded again.
The timers worked correctly from March 12 to March 31.
On April 1 the timers fired 1 hour early.
I connected the CM15A to the computer and downloaded again.
The timers are again working correctly.
It appears that the CM15A has the DST rules coded in firmware and can't be fixed without replacing all of the CM15As.
There is virtually no chance that will ever happen.
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: Dan Lawrence on April 02, 2007, 04:39:01 PM
It's been posted here several times that the CM15A's firmware does not have Daylight Savings Time Dates hard coded/.

Did you bother to get the Microsoft patches for WindowsXP?  The CM15 gets its time from Windows.

Something else is going on in your house, or you are running Windows 98 or ME. There is no DST upgrade for those O/S, but it's not automatic, it allows one to manually edit the time changes.
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: jrubenstein on April 02, 2007, 05:16:18 PM
My results were exactly the same as Murphy's.  The CM15A definitely does adjust its own time for DST, but it's using the DST date rules as they were before 2007.  It does it by itself, without being connected to a PC.  I've seen it happen several times over several years.  I don't know if the dates are actually "hard coded", or if they can be changed by a download from Windows.  But, like Murphy, I did a download (after clearing the memory) before March 11, and then again after March 11 to fix the time (which was off by an hour).  But it is currently still using the old changeover dates, and not the new (2007) ones.  I definitely am - and have been - using the latest greatest update of Windows XP.  My Windows XP changed its own time correctly on March 11, and not on April 1.  Perhaps the intention was for the CM15A to get its DST changeover dates from Windows, but that code has a bug or two in it.

It would be great to hear a real answer from somebody at AHP.
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: robkwil61 on April 02, 2007, 05:42:53 PM
Quote from: Dan Lawrence on April 02, 2007, 04:39:01 PM
It's been posted here several times that the CM15A's firmware does not have Daylight Savings Time Dates hard coded/.


Then can you explain the results many of us saw on Sunday?  CM15 not connected to PC, yet programmed objects coming on an hour earlier?  And yes, I too cleared memory before 3/11 and installed the XP DST patch before downloading the timers again.
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: murphy on April 02, 2007, 05:59:19 PM
Quote from: robkwil61 on April 02, 2007, 05:42:53 PM
Quote from: Dan Lawrence on April 02, 2007, 04:39:01 PM
It's been posted here several times that the CM15A's firmware does not have Daylight Savings Time Dates hard coded/.


Then can you explain the results many of us saw on Sunday?  CM15 not connected to PC, yet programmed objects coming on an hour earlier?  And yes, I too cleared memory before 3/11 and installed the XP DST patch before downloading the timers again.
How old is your CM15A?
Mine has been in service since October 2004.  It's one of the "debugging" versions that was shipped to me after many strange problems were reported with the original unit.  If your's is a recent purchase, it may well have a newer version of firmware in it.
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: whsbuss on April 03, 2007, 07:22:35 AM
Quote from: Dan Lawrence on April 02, 2007, 04:39:01 PM
It's been posted here several times that the CM15A's firmware does not have Daylight Savings Time Dates hard coded/.

Did you bother to get the Microsoft patches for WindowsXP?  The CM15 gets its time from Windows.

Something else is going on in your house, or you are running Windows 98 or ME. There is no DST upgrade for those O/S, but it's not automatic, it allows one to manually edit the time changes.

There's nothing going on except AHP in standalone mode cannot deal with the changed DST. Its that simple. I know your setup provides fulltime PC connectivity but others do not. All of us did the Windows update for DST and it works...... had no time issues on 3/11 or 4/1 with any of my PCs. If X10 cannot provide a true fix then they should point out that standalone mode requires 4 PC updates per year ON THEIR WEB SITE!!
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: Walt2 on April 03, 2007, 08:23:54 AM
Quote from: jrubenstein on April 02, 2007, 05:16:18 PM
My results were exactly the same as Murphy's.  The CM15A definitely does adjust its own time for DST, but it's using the DST date rules as they were before 2007.  It does it by itself, without being connected to a PC. 

...

It would be great to hear a real answer from somebody at AHP.

I absolutely agree!   The CM15A certainly does adjust its own time, and using the old, obsolete, rules.

And yes, it would be great if someone at X10 Inc will "fess up" and offer a fix.
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: KDR on April 03, 2007, 01:13:24 PM
I think the bottom line is they can't fix existing units. They might be able to address the problem in newly built units? Another problem to look forward to is that the date the time changes is going to change again but I don't remember when. It might be next year or the year after they are going to extend the time in the fall by another week or two.

(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)---(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)---(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)---(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)---(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)----KDR
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: MichaelC on April 03, 2007, 01:25:47 PM
If could remember how to expose the Read EEPROM function you could easily verify what's in the interface. I'm pretty certain that the problem is not in the firmware, since it works for places like Arizona that don't use daylight savings time at all. If anything, I'd guess that where people are seeing a problem AHP did not change the daylight savings date (maybe caching it or something) when you downloaded to the interface.

I'll try to remember how to turn on the debug options that give you access to the EEPROM read function.
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: jrubenstein on April 03, 2007, 01:48:59 PM
 :) I just called AHP/X10 (800-675-3044), waited on hold about 10 minutes, and finally spoke with Leroy in technical support.  He said they are aware of the DST problem, and are working on a fix.  I asked if it is solvable with software, and he said he thinks so.  He suggested I check the website in a week or two, and hopefully there will be an updated version of the software available which will fix the DST problem.
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: Dan Lawrence on April 03, 2007, 06:51:47 PM
The DST problem (which I have have not a bit of trouble) is easily solved. If you are running WindowsXP, get the Microsoft DST patch. If you have Vista, it's built in.

The same DST problem happens again in 2008, the dates change again.
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: whsbuss on April 04, 2007, 07:25:57 AM
Quote from: Dan Lawrence on April 03, 2007, 06:51:47 PM
The DST problem (which I have have not a bit of trouble) is easily solved. If you are running WindowsXP, get the Microsoft DST patch. If you have Vista, it's built in.

The same DST problem happens again in 2008, the dates change again.

We understand your setup (always connected PC running AHP) works. But not in standalone mode.

Thanks jrubenstein. Please let us know if/when a patch is posted. Its about time X10 got in the game to provide a fix.
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: Walt2 on April 04, 2007, 07:51:39 AM
Quote from: Dan Lawrence on April 03, 2007, 06:51:47 PM
The DST problem (which I have have not a bit of trouble) is easily solved. If you are running WindowsXP, get the Microsoft DST patch. If you have Vista, it's built in.

The same DST problem happens again in 2008, the dates change again.

Exactly how does one apply the Microsoft DST patch to firmware in the CM15A???    ???
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: Walt2 on April 04, 2007, 07:57:11 AM
Quote from: Dan Lawrence on April 02, 2007, 04:39:01 PM
Something else is going on in your house, or you are running Windows 98 or ME. There is no DST upgrade for those O/S, but it's not automatic, it allows one to manually edit the time changes.

For Win98/ME, here is the DST patch  ...  http://ftp.intelliadmin.com/DaylightSavingFix98.exe
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: Dan Lawrence on April 04, 2007, 09:41:50 PM
Quote from: Walt2 on April 04, 2007, 07:51:39 AM
Quote from: Dan Lawrence on April 03, 2007, 06:51:47 PM
The DST problem (which I have have not a bit of trouble) is easily solved. If you are running WindowsXP, get the Microsoft DST patch. If you have Vista, it's built in.

The same DST problem happens again in 2008, the dates change again.

Exactly how does one apply the Microsoft DST patch to firmware in the CM15A???    ???

You don't update the firmware, you update Windows. As has been posted here, the CM15A firmware does not control DST, the CM15A get the time from Windows.
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: Walt2 on April 05, 2007, 07:47:52 AM
Quote from: Dan Lawrence on April 04, 2007, 09:41:50 PM
You don't update the firmware, you update Windows. As has been posted here, the CM15A firmware does not control DST, the CM15A get the time from Windows.

Sorry to disagree, but from my own experience this past weekend, and from what others posted here, it is pretty clear that the CM15A firmware does indeed control DST.  And the CM15A firmware is following the old DST rules!!! 

That's the problem.   ::)

Go back and read mine and the other postings since 4/1.   My CM15A is not connected to my PC, but changed its own internal time, all by itself, by 1 hour this past Sunday.
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: jrubenstein on April 05, 2007, 08:55:29 AM
As we all wait patiently for AHP to develop, debug, and post their latest update with their solution to this annoying but not urgent problem, here's something to think about.  Let's be optimistic, and assume they actually do post the new version in a couple of weeks, as Leroy suggested to me when I called Customer Support a few days ago.  DST is scheduled to end this year on November 4, instead of October 28 (the old traditional last Sunday of October method).  Is anybody willing and eager to go to the trouble of testing the new version when it comes out, rather than waiting until October 28 and November 4 to come around?  I'm somewhat reluctant to mess around with the dates and times in my PC, in order to push those future dates into the CM15A to see what it does.  I use my computer for lots of other (more important) applications, and I don't want to risk messing those up if I were to temporarily put the date ahead several months to test the new load.  Is anybody willing to test out the fix when it comes out?  Maybe somebody with a PC dedicated to the AHP application?

I assume the test would involve:
A) Set up some timers - perhaps to go on at 8 am and 11 am.
B) Set the computer date to Friday 10/26/07, and the time to the current actual time.  Do a download to set the date/time in the CM15A.  (Disconnect the computer!)
C) The next day (Saturday 10/27/07), the timers should activate at the correct time.
D) The next day (Sunday 10/28/07), the timers should again activate at the correct time.
E) Set the computer date to Friday 11/2/07, and the time to the current actual time.  Do a download to set the date/time in the CM15A.  (Disconnect the computer!)
F) The next day (Saturday) 11/3/07, the timers should activate at the correct time.
G) The next day (Sunday 11/4/07), the CM15A should move its internal clock back an hour, so the timers should activate an hour late.

Anybody willing to give it a try when "the fix is in"?  ;)
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: Walt2 on April 05, 2007, 10:03:31 AM
BTW, I have also thought of simply turning 'off' DST.   That would reduce the number of PC-connections-to-correct-time from 4/year to just 2/year.  Plus those 2/year will be on the "popular" weekends, with TV, radio, and newspapers all warning us.

However, I believe that if one turns 'off' DST, then all the Dusk and Dawn calculations will be off by 1 hour, during actual DST time.  No?   So, turning 'off' DST isn't that great of a work-around.  :(
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: whsbuss on April 05, 2007, 01:23:24 PM
I sure do hope they patch AHP but I wouldn't count on it. Turning DST off in the interface will not help the number of times we need to update the interface. The timers would in fact be off 1 hour between the old DST dates (1st Sunday in April thru last Sunday in October).

I have a few computers running windows XP and would be willing to do standalone testing IF/WHEN a fix is posted.
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: steven r on April 05, 2007, 03:18:26 PM
Quote from: whsbuss on April 05, 2007, 01:23:24 PM
...I have a few computers running windows XP and would be willing to do standalone testing IF/WHEN a fix is posted.
Great! We'll hold you to your promise.
While if should of been fixed already, the level of urgency is lessoned right now. It would be a good idea to refresh this DST issue with X10 well in advance of the Fall, however.
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: Dan Lawrence on April 05, 2007, 07:51:45 PM
Quote from: Walt2 on April 05, 2007, 07:47:52 AM
Quote from: Dan Lawrence on April 04, 2007, 09:41:50 PM
You don't update the firmware, you update Windows. As has been posted here, the CM15A firmware does not control DST, the CM15A get the time from Windows.

Sorry to disagree, but from my own experience this past weekend, and from what others posted here, it is pretty clear that the CM15A firmware does indeed control DST.  And the CM15A firmware is following the old DST rules!!! 

That's the problem.   ::)

Go back and read mine and the other postings since 4/1.   My CM15A is not connected to my PC, but changed its own internal time, all by itself, by 1 hour this past Sunday.

You are 100% wrong. Ask MichaelC about the CM15A firmware .

My CM15A got it's time from Windows, and didn't jump ahead on the old DST date. It's also connected to the PC 24-7.
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: jrubenstein on April 06, 2007, 12:15:31 AM
OK Dan ... I don't know if I can make this complicated enough for you to understand, but I'll give it one last try.

There are two kinds of people in this world: (A) Those who leave their CM15A connected to their PC all the time (as you say, "24-7"), and (B) Those who leave their CM15A not connected to their PC all the time, but connect it when necessary to download timers and/or macros, or to set the CM15A's date and time.  Based on your posts, you are clearly in the (A) group.  However, many of us are in the (B) group.  For several reasons, we prefer to not leave our CM15A connected to our PC all the time.

Now, we (B) group people have been (B) group people through enough years of spring and fall DST changes to know (from our own personal experiences and from seeing these things happen with our own eyes) that the CM15A - by itself - with no connection at all to the PC - changes its own clock forward an hour and back an hour when DST changes in the spring and in the fall.  It always knew when to do that.  By itself.

This year, of course, the traditional dates for the start and end of DST were changed (by our own genius congressmen) so they no longer correspond to the old "first Sunday in April, last Sunday in October" rules.  Microsoft provided updates for Windows XP, and AHP said that if we update our Windows operating system, then when we download our timers and macros to the CM15A, Windows will tell the CM15A when DST is supposed to start and end.  So the CM15A should now know the new rules, and we (B) group people will live happily ever after.

HOWEVER ... it didn't work.  We all got our Windows DST patches.  We all cleared our CM15A's and downloaded our macros and timers, and set the CM15A's date/time before March 11.  And then we disconnected our PC's.  We all saw our Windows operating systems change their times on the correct dates, and not on the old dates.  But ... the CM15A still acts like it thinks the DST start date was supposed to be April 1.  The evidence of this is that on March 11 the CM15A didn't move its clock ahead, so we all had to connect our PC's and set the CM15A's clock manually.  And on April 1 we all saw the timers firing an hour early, because the CM15A did move its clock ahead an hour.  So we all had to connect our PC's again, and set the clock back where it should be.

After seeing on this forum that I was not the only one who had this problem, I called AHP customer support, (and waited on hold for quite a while), and they were already well aware of the problem.  Leroy told me they were working on a fix, and it should be included in the next version, and available within a couple of weeks.

You don't see the problem because - again - you are a member of the (A) group.  With your PC connected all the time, your CM15A gets its time updated from Windows often enough that it doesn't have to think about when DST starts and ends.  It just depends on Windows to tell it what time it is.

So ... to settle the "argument" ... I'd say "everybody's right"  ;).  It just depends if you're a member of the (A) group or the (B) group.

Jeff
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: whsbuss on April 06, 2007, 07:46:53 AM
Well said Jeff.
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: Walt2 on April 06, 2007, 08:01:43 AM
Yes, very well said Jeff.   :)

Dan just can't seem to grasp the very basic concept, that our CM15's are disconnected from our PC's 24/7.  Yet, as Jeff said "... on April 1 we all saw the timers firing an hour early, because the CM15A did move its clock ahead an hour."

And Dan, I don't see MichaelC posting anything to the contrary.   I really doubt that MichaelC will support you on this one because it simply is not true.    ::)
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: Dan Lawrence on April 06, 2007, 05:55:16 PM
OK, I'll shut up on the topic.

One unanswered comment:  It was  jrubenstein who posted":
 Smiley I just called AHP/X10 (800-675-3044), waited on hold about 10 minutes, and finally spoke with Leroy in technical support.  He said they are aware of the DST problem, and are working on a fix.  I asked if it is solvable with software, and he said he thinks so.  He suggested I check the website in a week or two, and hopefully there will be an updated version of the software available which will fix the DST problem."

Will this be an update to AHP or what?
 
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: nklght on September 03, 2007, 03:11:08 AM
Even with a firmware update, people can still have problems with the time being off.  My Brother-in-law works for a Voip company and there hardware supplier provided a patch for the new DST dates.  The company paid overtime inorder to get the patches out, then when the new DST occured all of thier customers called complaining because the systems were now an hour fast.  So, the company had to spend more money sending everyone out to re-correct the time change.  What happend?  The hardware supplier created a patch, not beliving Microsoft would have a fix.  The time change occured and the hardware advanced an hour, along with cue from Windows to advance an hour.  Thus the systems not updated had no problem, but the ones with the firmware update ran fast.
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: murphy on October 16, 2007, 03:35:32 PM
Well it's now 12 days until the old fall DST change date (Oct 28) and no new version of AHP has been forthcoming.    I guess those of us who run with the CM15A disconnected from the computer really do have to adjust the time manually 4 times a year.  Even the ancient CM11A had the ability to cover this problem automatically once you told it when the time change dates were.  Very disappointing.
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: KDR on October 16, 2007, 03:42:30 PM
On a positive note... X10 developers are looking at suggestions we have made and may be working on a new version of AHP. Maybe they will fix the DST issue.
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: Dan Lawrence on October 16, 2007, 03:43:12 PM
Since AHP and the CM15A get their time from Windows, for the users that don't keep the 15 connected, you will have to connect it to the PC before DST ends for real in order to have your timers/macros run a the proper times.  Those of us who have the 15 connected 24/7 don't have to do anything.   
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: Don N on October 16, 2007, 06:23:34 PM
Quote from: murphy on October 16, 2007, 03:35:32 PM
Well it's now 12 days until the old fall DST change date (Oct 28) ...

Just to set the record straight ... the time changes November 4
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: HA Dave on October 16, 2007, 06:38:05 PM
Since Canada may be converting to metric time (http://www.indwes.edu/Faculty/bcupp/things/metrictm.htm) anyway.... maybe we should all convert to universal metric units (http://www.hearod.com/Metric-Time/) for time measurement.


We are bringing humor back to the forum ....right?
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: murphy on October 17, 2007, 02:08:48 PM
Quote from: Don N on October 16, 2007, 06:23:34 PM
Quote from: murphy on October 16, 2007, 03:35:32 PM
Well it's now 12 days until the old fall DST change date (Oct 28) ...

Just to set the record straight ... the time changes November 4

A CM15A that is not connected to a computer will change the time on Oct 28 because it doesn't know about the new date and is using the old rules.  It will have to be manually corrected.  Then on Nov 4 it will have to be manually corrected again.  This problem is the whole point of this thread.
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: Puck on October 17, 2007, 02:32:53 PM
Do people in Arizona, Hawaii & Saskatchewan have to manually adjust their CM15A time twice a year?
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: Walt2 on October 17, 2007, 03:29:39 PM
The alternative is to manually readjust our congressmen/women next November.  :D
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: Charles Sullivan on October 17, 2007, 06:12:04 PM
Quote from: Dave_x10_L on October 16, 2007, 06:38:05 PM
Since Canada may be converting to metric time (http://www.indwes.edu/Faculty/bcupp/things/metrictm.htm) anyway.... maybe we should all convert to universal metric units (http://www.hearod.com/Metric-Time/) for time measurement.


We are bringing humor back to the forum ....right?

That's pretty funny, but scary.  I've read that the cost of changing the dates of Daylight Saving Time in the US amounted to several billion dollars.  (Thanks, US Congress.)  Imagine what the cost would be to switch to one of these cockamamy "metric time" schemes.   (I suspect it would result in the collapse of civilization as we know it.)

Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: HA Dave on October 17, 2007, 06:24:39 PM
Quote from: Charles Sullivan on October 17, 2007, 06:12:04 PM

That's pretty funny, but scary.  .............. Imagine what the cost would be to switch to one of these cockamamy "metric time" schemes. 


I think I can adjust to the 10 hours days... and the 10 day weeks. My thinking is the 10 letter metric alphabet.... could only IMPROVE my spelling.
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: Charles Sullivan on October 17, 2007, 06:56:28 PM
Quote from: Dave_x10_L on October 17, 2007, 06:24:39 PM
Quote from: Charles Sullivan on October 17, 2007, 06:12:04 PM

That's pretty funny, but scary.  .............. Imagine what the cost would be to switch to one of these cockamamy "metric time" schemes. 


I think I can adjust to the 10 hours days... and the 10 day weeks. My thinking is the 10 letter metric alphabet.... could only IMPROVE my spelling.

Not to worry!  Nowadays it's PC to overlook "creative" spelling, lack of punctuation, "stream of consciousness" run-on sentences, etc.   In any event, your 10 letter metric alphabet may already be close to reality among the text-messaging segment of the population.   ;)

Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: steven r on October 18, 2007, 12:29:24 AM
Quote from: Dave_x10_L on October 17, 2007, 06:24:39 PM
...My thinking is the 10 letter metric alphabet.... could only IMPROVE my spelling.
With my spelling luck it would be a 100 letter metric alphabet with 10 vowels.
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: steven r on October 23, 2007, 01:52:21 PM
Quote from: Walt2 on October 17, 2007, 03:29:39 PM
The alternative is to manually readjust our congressmen/women next November.  :D
Who knows it might turn out to be faster than getting the software fixed.  ;)
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: Walt2 on October 23, 2007, 02:09:13 PM
Quote from: steven r on October 18, 2007, 12:29:24 AM
With my spelling luck it would be a 100 letter metric alphabet with 10 vowels.

Not if I have to buy the vowels.  :D
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: jrubenstein on October 28, 2007, 07:03:22 AM
OK ... I've accepted the fact that until the fix comes out I will leave my CM15A connected to my PC during both the old (10/28) and new (11/4) weekend periods in order to allow the DST changes to occur correctly.  I typically only connect to the PC when I have changes to download, but I'd rather do this than have to manually change it.  I left it connected last night, with ActiveHome Pro running, and ... it seemed to work correctly.  (No time change.  Woo hoo!  :) )

Now I have a question, for those of you who leave it always connected to your PC's.  For this to work (for it to get its correct time from Windows, during the DST change next weekend), does it simply have to be connected via the USB port, or does ActiveHome Pro also have to be running on the PC to make the time change happen?

Thanks!

Jeff
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: whsbuss on October 28, 2007, 09:12:18 AM
Well all I do is connect up the laptop, clear the interface memory, and download the configuration. Then on Nov. 4 do it all over again. I don't think we will ever see a fix for this.
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: murphy on October 28, 2007, 11:21:04 AM
I left the CM15A connected to the PC last night with Activehome not running.  The lights came on at the proper time this morning so it appears that is sufficient.

Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: Dan Lawrence on October 28, 2007, 12:54:19 PM
One thing for both our users who keep the CM15 connected 24/7 and those who don't.   Make sure X10 Net Services (x10Nets.exe, located in C:\Program Files/Common Files/X10) runs when Windows is running.  That keeps the status of modules and timers correct in AHP.
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: Walt2 on October 28, 2007, 09:25:37 PM
Quote from: murphy on October 28, 2007, 11:21:04 AM
I left the CM15A connected to the PC last night with Activehome not running.  The lights came on at the proper time this morning so it appears that is sufficient.

Are you sure you did not have ActiveHomePro running at all? 

Not even minimized to the task bar?
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: murphy on October 28, 2007, 09:43:57 PM
Quote from: Walt2 on October 28, 2007, 09:25:37 PM
Quote from: murphy on October 28, 2007, 11:21:04 AM
I left the CM15A connected to the PC last night with Activehome not running.  The lights came on at the proper time this morning so it appears that is sufficient.

Are you sure you did not have ActiveHomePro running at all? 

Not even minimized to the task bar?
Positive.  The only thing running was the X10 USB driver that loads when the PC is turned on. 
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: Dan Lawrence on October 28, 2007, 11:03:17 PM
As long as X10Nets.exe is loaded, AHP does not have to be open for timers and macros to run.  All x10nets.exe (X10 Network Services) does is keep track of actions until AHP is reopened.
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: jrubenstein on October 30, 2007, 10:13:30 PM
Quote
The concept that the real time clock is programmed (firmware) to increment time on a given date would be ludicrous programming even for X10.

I agree.  However, it is what it is.  Several of us who've run with the CM15a not connected to the PC over many years have confirmed that its firmware has the old DST dates hard-coded into it.  Before Congress changed the DST dates last year, everything worked fine.  Then after the change, we updated our Windows OS, and our PC's used the new dates, but the CM15a still used the old dates.  (Unless the CM15a was connected to the PC at the time.)  This causes problems 4 times a year.  Twice in the spring (when it changes the time and shouldn't, and when it doesn't change the time but should), and twice again in the fall.  Until X10 supplies a fix, one solution seems to be to leave the CM15a connected to the PC during the critical Sunday morning changeovers.  (Both the old dates and the new dates.)  I'm doing that this year.  We'll see what happens on Sunday morning.

Quote
On 11/3 daybreak is programmed for 8:21.
On 11/4 is set for 7:21 - end of story.

Am I missing something here?

If you're missing anything, I think it's again the issue of whether the CM15a is connected to the PC or not.  The ActiveHome Pro application certainly seems to know when DST truly starts and ends.  And that information seems to be available to the CM15a while it's connected.  But when it's not connected, it seems to fall back to its old dates ... which we assume must be hard-coded in its firmware.

By the way ... I personally think the whole DST concept is ridiculous.  All of the reasons for its implementation are no longer valid, and now it's a huge waste of time and resources.  There is no evidence that it saves any energy.  In the summer we may not turn on our lights until later at night, but we have to leave them on longer in the morning.  Do you know anybody who can explain why we have DST?  (With a straight face?)  I was impressed that Indiana was one of the few states smart enough to not fall for the DST scam.  But I guess they succumbed to peer pressure from neighboring states.  ;)
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: Dan Lawrence on October 30, 2007, 10:31:25 PM
I've been reading a bit about the 2007 DST changes.  When the The Energy Policy Act of 2005 was passed and signed, the act does have the option of reverting to the traditional dates is the energy saved does not meet the savings specified in the Act.

We shall see.

One question that needs answering is why some AHP users don't have their CM15A connected to their PC 24/7?  With PCs so cheap these days, why not leave it connected? Those of us who do leave it connected don't run into any major problems.
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: Boiler on October 30, 2007, 10:38:19 PM
jrubenstein,
I'm sorry, I realized the error in my logic and deleted my post (while you were apparently in the process of posting).  I apologize, I would not have done that had I known you were in the process of posting.

From what I can see in my interface - if left disconnected from the computer the RTC (real time clock) will continue to operate and the interface will activate 1 hour earlier on Nov 4.  In order to correct for this 1 hour AHP programmed change, the CM15a will need to be connected to a PC to adjust the RTC forward by 1 hour (no net change in GMT).

My commentary on Indiana joining the DST collective was "tounge-in-cheek".  My youngest child now gets on the bus in the dark year round.  I'm also separated from the west coast (where 5 of my sister companies and countless customers are located) by three hours - that's a pain.  I sure am glad that my lawn gets that extra hour of sunlight though!

Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: jrubenstein on October 31, 2007, 06:26:51 AM
Quote
I sure am glad that my lawn gets that extra hour of sunlight though!

That's funny!  :D :D
Title: Re: Daylight Savings Time [2007]
Post by: HA Dave on October 31, 2007, 07:43:37 AM
Quote from: Dan Lawrence on October 30, 2007, 10:31:25 PM

One question that needs answering is why some AHP users don't have their CM15A connected to their PC 24/7?  With PCs so cheap these days, why not leave it connected?


I also leave my Home Automation PC run 24/7. Since I use Voice Command (http://www.wgjohns.com/bvc.htm) (and a couple other things) I have to.

For me... after changing regular light bulbs out for CFL's and even a couple LEDs.... it wasn't easy to decide to run a PC 24/7. But it IS worth it.

I use an older curb-side quality PC. I could replace it any "trash-day" by simply looking at what has been set-out on the curb in nearby neighborhoods. I also keep the monitor turned OFF. I currently get alerts and warning from the PC (and plan to expand on that) that I can't get any other way. 

I am sure the few extra penny's of electricity used is more than off-set with (automated) power consumption savings.