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📸Cameras & Camera Software => Legacy non Wi-Fi X10 Cameras => Camera General Discussion => Wireless Cameras(non IP) => Topic started by: Bill H on April 25, 2007, 09:02:16 AM

Title: Camera White Out
Post by: Bill H on April 25, 2007, 09:02:16 AM
Have been using 5 wireless cameras in various areas of my home with fairly good pictures for years. Just bought 4 more (2 B/W, 1 Color, 1 Wide-eye) and all seem to have the same problem: They can't tolerate light. Light the scene (overhead lights, etc.) and the pix rolls, tears, and whites out. Tried putting an old and new camera side by side: old camera worked fine, new camera whited out when lights were turned on. (I checked to be sure only 1 camera is on at a time.) Hard to beleive the AGC circuits are bad on all 4. Any ideas?
Title: Re: Camera White Out
Post by: Bill H on April 25, 2007, 10:53:12 AM
Thanks for the quick reply, but the house and unit codes, receivers, etc. all work properly with the current cameras. All I'm doing is substituting a new camera for an old one (using all the same codes, RF settings, etc.).
Title: Re: Camera White Out
Post by: hawk1 on April 25, 2007, 10:58:57 AM
sorry about the delete, i was going to rewrite my post but you were posting at the same time i guess. also you might want to post this in a more specific group, like wireless camera or wired  camera.  every group has its experts.
Title: Re: Camera White Out
Post by: hawk1 on April 25, 2007, 11:04:47 AM
i'm pretty  new to this too, although i've been tinkering with x10 for years. did you unplug the old camera from the wall socket and try.  it sounds like to me you still have some kind of interference going on. i know you probably did already, but you might want to check the switch on the camera itself and make sure it's not like halfway in between the a-b or what ever you have them set on.  sometimes those tiny little switches are hard to see what there on.  i'm sorry i couldn't be of more help.
Title: Re: Camera White Out
Post by: Bill H on April 25, 2007, 02:18:58 PM
Thanks again, but did check all settings carefully and made sure no other camera was on at the time. Perhaps a bad batch of cams???
Title: Re: Camera White Out
Post by: hawk1 on April 25, 2007, 04:56:32 PM
are you using activehomepro to view or tv?  if using active home pro, delete the camera and resetup the camera. are all the new camera exactly like to old ones? if not then you are probably trying to view the wrong camera in iwitness. i don't know if the software uses the same settings as all there cameras but i would imagine not. if your using your tv, then i would have no idea. maybe you do have a bad bunch. if you using either or it would be a good way to test them anyhow. i hope this helped, maybe someone else will chime in. good luck
Title: Re: Camera White Out
Post by: KDR on April 25, 2007, 07:09:52 PM
The cameras should have electronic shutters somewhere in the range of 1/50 to 1/10,000 of a second. I'm not sure what the range is with X10 cameras and don't recall ever seeing a spec on them. Are the cameras inside or outside? Maybe temperature is messing things up? Does the camera display a red or blue cast washed out image before whiting out?

(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)---(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)---(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)---(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)---(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)----KDR
Title: Re: Camera White Out
Post by: Bill H on April 26, 2007, 08:31:12 AM
The cameras are inside and I've compared them to my other cameras in a variety of lighting scenes. On low-light scenes the new (bad) cams have a bluish tint and seem to be slightly more magnified than the comparison cameras. Brighter scenes, such a room with the sun coming thru a window, distorts the image, causes rolling and white out depending on the strength of the light. I'm monitoring the results in AHP and on several TVs around the house, each on separate receivers but all with relatively the same results.
Title: Re: Camera White Out
Post by: Aquadeveloper on November 18, 2007, 02:41:18 PM
If you have 2 identical cameras side by side, it sounds like you have a bad (new) camera. :(

Title: Re: Camera White Out
Post by: Bill H on November 18, 2007, 06:34:14 PM
I agree...cameras were returned to X10 with no questions asked. Thanks for the reply!
Title: Re: Camera White Out
Post by: Don N on December 09, 2007, 10:34:53 AM
Bill, I'm experiencing the same camera "white out" as you've described.  I've got two XX11A wireless cameras that have worked fine for several years.  I just bought two XX16A cameras that don't work because of white out.  I've even plugged the new cameras into the old cameras plug and location ... and they still don't work.  Did you ever find a solution for your problem?
Title: Re: Camera White Out
Post by: Don N on December 10, 2007, 06:58:11 PM
I tried another test.  I removed the lens from an old working wireless camera and inserted it into the new non-working (white-out) wireless camera.  The results were the same ... I still had white-out in the new camera image.  Unfortunately the power supply connection to the camera is different between my old camera and the new camera.  Therefore, I was unable to switch any other components (camera or power supply). 

I called and asked X10 for an RMA.  After receiving the email with the RMA number I noticed the explanation they gave for my return was "cameras are defective."  And not that the camera's image creates a white-out image.  Guess X10 doesn't want to admit specific problems.

Anyway, hopefully the replacement cameras will work.  More info to follow.  Inside each box I made a pencil mark just to see if I received the same cameras again.  
Title: Re: Camera White Out
Post by: Don N on December 11, 2007, 07:55:07 PM
Ouch!!!!  X10 doesn't give you a mailing label with the RMA.  You have to spend your own money to send the defective products back to X10.  Then they make you wait another 10 days after they receive the products before they send you, hmmm hopefully, new working products.  Lets see ... I paid for cameras that were defective which I can't use ... but to get new cameras I have to pay to send the defective cameras back to X10.  And then wait 10 days before new cameras are sent.  Does that seem like good customer relations -- or is it just me?   

Anyway, just thought I would mention this in case you haven't experienced X10's return policy for defective products.
Title: Re: Camera White Out
Post by: Don N on December 31, 2007, 11:33:15 AM
I received the replacement cameras today and they have the same "white-out" problem.  They are unusable in their present state.  In my opinion, too much light causes the image to be washed out.  When I say too much light, I mean just normal indirect sunlight.  If I direct the camera to a dark corner of the room, then the image is somewhat acceptable.  But anytime the camera is pointed into the room where there is normal indirect sunlight, the image is washed out.  If the room is dark and I turn on a light ... the camera image is washed out.

Side note:  I've been watching the hits on this topic for several weeks.  There seems to be a lot of views on this topic.  So is this a common problem with the X10 wireless cameras?  I've got two wireless cameras that I've used for about 7 years and they work fine.  But the new ones don't work.
Title: Re: Camera White Out
Post by: steven r on December 31, 2007, 01:18:19 PM
Quote from: Don N on December 31, 2007, 11:33:15 AM
...Side note:  I've been watching the hits on this topic for several weeks.  There seems to be a lot of views on this topic.  So is this a common problem with the X10 wireless cameras?  I've got two wireless cameras that I've used for about 7 years and they work fine.  But the new ones don't work.
One can't conclude that because a topic is read that the reader has the same problem. Some of us, with perhaps too much time on their hands, read just about every post.

I am interested if the new cameras are the same model as your old ones that work fine. X10 has been know to make design changes to their products without making or noting the changes. In some cases this is extended to not even informing their customer service and marketing departments of the changes.

If the models are the same, please post any product date codes noting which ones are working correctly and which ones aren't.
Title: Re: Camera White Out
Post by: Don N on December 31, 2007, 01:30:06 PM
The old working camera is a model XX11A made up of a XC10A camera and XM10A power supply.  Date code 00L49.

The new non-working camera is model XX16A made up of a XC22A camera and XM16A power supply.  Date code 07D18.
Title: Re: Camera White Out
Post by: jflynn on January 02, 2008, 01:10:11 PM
I'm having the same problem with one of my cameras.  Bought a pack of 4, only one doesn't want to work correctly.  I was planning on spending a bit of time messing with it today, I'll post back if I figure it out.
Title: Re: Camera White Out
Post by: Don N on January 02, 2008, 06:01:53 PM
jflynn -- There is more information posted about this problem on another X10 topic at http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=14163.0

You can see the two different images that I've posted there.  KDR suggested trying some filters.  I went to the local camera shop, but he didn't have any filters small enough. 

What are the model numbers and date codes on your working and non-working cameras?
Title: Re: Camera White Out
Post by: jflynn on January 03, 2008, 12:23:52 PM
the camera I'm having issues with is a XC18A.  Date code 07I36 (if it is the whie sticker).  If I hold my hand close to the lens, it clears up with a nice picture of my palm.  If I remove my hand and allow more light to get to it, it whites out......... argh!
Title: Re: Camera White Out
Post by: Don N on January 08, 2008, 05:51:09 PM
jflynn -- Have you resolved the issue with your XC18A camera? 

I sent my cameras back (second time) and received three more cameras.  These cameras also have the same white-out issue.  So that's nine cameras I've received that have the same image problem.  Again, I will send these back and request replacements.  Sooner or later (odds are getting in my favor) I should receive working cameras.

Has anyone recently received working wireless X10 cameras?  If so, let me know which ones you received so that I can order that same camera.  The XX16A cameras don't work based upon my sampling ... 9 out of 9 failures. 
Title: Re: Camera White Out
Post by: jflynn on January 11, 2008, 04:10:23 PM
X10 finally sent me an RMA # so i shipped it back today............ I can lnoy hope to get a working camera.  The reason X10 gave was broken auto adjust iris.
Title: Re: Camera White Out
Post by: Don N on January 22, 2008, 06:55:45 PM
UPDATE   I was able to talk to a Supervisor at the X10 Tech Department prior to sending the last three cameras back.  After I explained the situation, the Supervisor had me send the cameras directly to Renton.  In Renton, the cameras were tested and found to be defective.  X10 in Renton is acquiring new cameras, from both their warehouses in Nevada and New Jersey.  The date codes will be checked to ensure they are different from my cameras  Once Renton receives the new cameras, they will be tested.  If the cameras are O.K., Renton will send me the new cameras.

In my opinion, X10 has been very cooperative in helping me solve this problem once a Supervisor got involved.  It's unfortunate that it's taken so long before a Supervisor would get involved.  More info. later.
Title: Re: Camera White Out
Post by: jelester on January 27, 2008, 08:18:14 PM
I to have had the same problem with camera white out.  I have sent back three of the cameras and the replacements do the same thing.  I have ten
cameras and the old ones are working ok.   X10 has a problem.  I have now five cameras that are useless.  I am going to call x10 one more time
and see if they admit to the problem.
Jerry
Title: Re: Camera White Out
Post by: blown99bergerssclo on January 28, 2008, 10:33:07 AM
please tell me they are working now. i just spent alot of money on security and surv. products from x10 and i am waiting to recieve them. i hope i dont have the same problems!
Title: Re: Camera White Out
Post by: jflynn on January 28, 2008, 11:16:36 AM
Don,

HOw long did it take to get new cameras once you sent them back with an RMA?  It's been 17 days for me and I've heard absolutly nothing.  thanks..
Title: Re: Camera White Out
Post by: Don N on January 28, 2008, 12:36:59 PM
jflynn -- It took almost three weeks before I received the first replacements.  Apparently, X10 waits 10 business days before they refill the order after receiving an RMA.  The second time I received the cameras in about a week.  That was because I complained.  It's now the third time ... and I still haven't received new cameras.  And it's been two weeks.  As I stated earlier, X10 is apparently testing new cameras for me.  It's beginning to "feel" like X10 is having some major problems with their cameras.
Title: Re: Camera White Out
Post by: jflynn on January 29, 2008, 11:40:44 AM
Well it would be nice if they actualy tested ALL of the cameras before they shipped them out.  Have they never heard of QA?  I'll keep ya posted on the outcome of my situation.........
Title: Re: Camera White Out
Post by: Bill H on January 31, 2008, 08:04:09 PM
I started this thread back in April of last year and have been "off the air" for months due to a move...can't believe it's still going! Some folks have e-mailed me about this and I see folks like Don have asked if I solved the problem (sorry for no reply, but I am just now seeing this.) My final solution was simple: I returned all the cameras (2 mailings of 4) for a refund. I reported to X10 of the "white out" problem, but, as noted here, they just wrote it off and told me they had no reports of this. Hopefully, the new mailings to you guys will be ok. We'll all be waiting to see how these work.
Title: Re: Camera White Out
Post by: Don N on January 31, 2008, 08:18:21 PM
I received new cameras today.  Early testing of the cameras, in my environment, is very promising.  I will do more testing this weekend and give a detailed report of what transpired.  Stay tuned.
Title: Re: Camera White Out
Post by: jflynn on February 04, 2008, 11:01:43 AM
that is good news.  I only hope it works the same for me when I get mine back.
Title: Re: Camera White Out
Post by: Don N on February 04, 2008, 11:33:58 AM
No more "white-out" problem.  The solution was to replace my old VR31A 2.4 GHz Wireless Audio/Video Receiver with a new VR42A 2.4 GHz Wireless Audio/Video Receiver.  With the new Receiver both old (XX11A) and new (XX18A) cameras work fine.  If I revert back and use my old Receiver the old cameras work fine, but the new cameras exhibit the "white-out" condition.

X10 (the Company) was unable to offer an explanation on why the XX18A camera image is washed out with the old Receiver.  X10 has said, I was "the only customer who has contacted them with this specific problem."

jelester and jflynn  -- if you find that you have the old VR31A receiver and your new cameras have "white-out", the Receiver could be the problem.  Contact X10 and tell them your symptoms.     

     
Title: Re: Camera White Out
Post by: steven r on February 04, 2008, 12:38:02 PM
Quote from: Don N on February 04, 2008, 11:33:58 AM
No more "white-out" problem.  The solution was to replace my old VR31A 2.4 GHz Wireless Audio/Video Receiver with a new VR42A 2.4 GHz Wireless Audio/Video Receiver.  With the new Receiver both old (XX11A) and new (XX18A) cameras work fine.  If I revert back and use my old Receiver the old cameras work fine, but the new cameras exhibit the "white-out" condition.

X10 (the Company) was unable to offer an explanation on why the XX18A camera image is washed out with the old Receiver...
Thanks for sharing your problem solution.

One of the best things X10 has ever done is set up this forum. It has allowed users like yourself and others to form the largest beta test and discovery resource for the home automation field. There are a lot of us that have been using X10 products since the BSR days. (I still have my BSR timer.) Users here have discovered undocumented hardware changes as well as clever solutions and work arounds.
Title: Re: Camera White Out
Post by: jflynn on February 12, 2008, 10:59:41 AM
I got an email that said my camera had finally shipped....... cmon baby, work this time.......

Don, do you have a Work Order # that we may reference if that is the case?  Thanks!
Title: Re: Camera White Out
Post by: jflynn on February 12, 2008, 04:30:43 PM
Holy crap it actually worked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Camera White Out
Post by: Don N on February 12, 2008, 05:01:21 PM
jflynn --  Glad to hear that the cameras are working.  Out of curiosity, what wireless receiver are you using.
Title: Re: Camera White Out
Post by: jflynn on February 13, 2008, 10:29:36 AM
I didn't check, I'll get back with that answer though.
Title: Re: Camera White Out
Post by: jelester on February 14, 2008, 08:13:29 AM
I am glad a answer was found to the camera white out.  It is funny that the only fix is to buy another receiver VR42A.  I could never get
a supervispor or anyone else to admit there was a problem.  Oh well I just spent another $50.00 on a new receiver and I hope it cures the white out.
It sure is curious that now maybe everyone will have to spend some more money to fix a problem that was created by x10.
Jelester
Title: Re: Camera White Out
Post by: GeorgiaNiteowl on February 29, 2008, 07:58:13 PM
Quote from: Don N on February 04, 2008, 11:33:58 AM
No more "white-out" problem.  The solution was to replace my old VR31A 2.4 GHz Wireless Audio/Video Receiver with a new VR42A 2.4 GHz Wireless Audio/Video Receiver.  With the new Receiver both old (XX11A) and new (XX18A) cameras work fine.  If I revert back and use my old Receiver the old cameras work fine, but the new cameras exhibit the "white-out" condition.

X10 (the Company) was unable to offer an explanation on why the XX18A camera image is washed out with the old Receiver.  X10 has said, I was "the only customer who has contacted them with this specific problem."

jelester and jflynn  -- if you find that you have the old VR31A receiver and your new cameras have "white-out", the Receiver could be the problem.  Contact X10 and tell them your symptoms.     



     

Don, so glad that you posted this.  We are having the same problem with white-out when we tried to add a new XX22A nightwatch camera to Vanguard using either a VR31A or VR36A receiver.  It wasn't the new camera because it worked well when used with with our TV & the VR36A receiver.  So Tech Support suggested that we buy & try the VR42A.  Will post back with the results after we receive the VR42A.   


Title: Re: Camera White Out
Post by: cyclonex10 on March 13, 2008, 11:32:47 PM
I just receive a XX20A camera have the same problem with the picture being washed out, during the day, but picture is better in the lower light. I read in this thread that a VR42A receiver helps, but I have not been able to locate this on the X10 or ebay website.

Can anyone provide a link?

Thanks
Title: Re: Camera White Out
Post by: GeorgiaNiteowl on March 21, 2008, 10:48:19 PM
Quote from: GeorgiaNiteowl on February 29, 2008, 07:58:13 PM
Quote from: Don N on February 04, 2008, 11:33:58 AM
No more "white-out" problem.  The solution was to replace my old VR31A 2.4 GHz Wireless Audio/Video Receiver with a new VR42A 2.4 GHz Wireless Audio/Video Receiver.  With the new Receiver both old (XX11A) and new (XX18A) cameras work fine.  If I revert back and use my old Receiver the old cameras work fine, but the new cameras exhibit the "white-out" condition.

X10 (the Company) was unable to offer an explanation on why the XX18A camera image is washed out with the old Receiver.  X10 has said, I was "the only customer who has contacted them with this specific problem."

jelester and jflynn  -- if you find that you have the old VR31A receiver and your new cameras have "white-out", the Receiver could be the problem.  Contact X10 and tell them your symptoms.     



     

Don, so glad that you posted this.  We are having the same problem with white-out when we tried to add a new XX22A nightwatch camera to Vanguard using either a VR31A or VR36A receiver.  It wasn't the new camera because it worked well when used with with our TV & the VR36A receiver.  So Tech Support suggested that we buy & try the VR42A.  Will post back with the results after we receive the VR42A.   




The VR42A corrected our white-out problem with the XX22A Nitewatch camera & Vanguard ICC.  We were told by Tech that VR42A was a new X10 receiver & could be ordered by calling them.  We did not find a way to order it online.