X10 Community Forum

💬General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: andrewg on July 14, 2007, 10:23:24 AM

Title: New to the forum
Post by: andrewg on July 14, 2007, 10:23:24 AM
Just signed up for this forum after buying the X10 home security system.

I love it.  I like the scalability, price, ease of set-up and use, and independence from monthly contracts.

One issue that is a bit problematic is the inability of the lamp modules to work with florescent bulbs.  I understand why that are not compatible, but was wondering if there is another component, such as the appliance module, that can be used with this type of lighting.

Thanks again for any help or suggestions,
Andrew
Title: Re: New to the forum
Post by: JeffVolp on July 14, 2007, 11:02:29 AM
Quote
One issue that is a bit problematic is the inability of the lamp modules to work with florescent bulbs.  I understand why that are not compatible, but was wondering if there is another component, such as the appliance module, that can be used with this type of lighting.

Many people use appliance modules for compact fluorescent lights (CFLs).  Some report flickering when off due to the slight current provided by the sense circuit.  Here we use standard lamp modules, but only ON or OFF unless the CFL is designed for dimming.  More info on how to deal with CFLs can be found here:

http://jvde.us/x10/x10_cfls.htm

Jeff
Title: Re: New to the forum
Post by: andrewg on July 14, 2007, 11:20:27 AM
Jeff,

Thanks for the quick response.
I currently installed FEIT Electric 60 watt ECObulbs all over the house. (Upon closed inspection of the packaging, these are made in China).

As it appears that you are the expert in this field, will I be out-of-luck, or can I use appliance modules with these bulbs?

Thanks again,
Andrew
Title: X10 and Compact Fluorescent Bulbs (changed title)
Post by: JeffVolp on July 14, 2007, 11:40:48 AM
I don't think there are any "experts" in the field.  We are all learning as the technology evolves.

There are a couple of issues to consider with the appliance module:

1)  The electrical noise produced by some CFLs can prevent reliable X10 communication.  If so, it is necessary to add filters to prevent the noise from reaching the powerline.  I have not used the ECObulbs myself, but perhaps someone else will share their experience with them.

2)  X10 lamp and appliance modules both have a sense circuit so that toggling the switch on the lamp will cause the module to switch on.  While this small amount of current is not an issue with incandescent bulbs, it can provide enough power for a CFL to try to start, and it may flicker or glow dimly.  The sense circuit can be disabled by snipping a component inside the module if this is a problem.  Instructions to do that can be found elsewhere on this forum.

The CFLs we bought most recently were the n:vision ones sold by HomeDepot.  They work fine with ordinary lamp modules, and require no filtering.

Jeff
Title: Re: New to the forum
Post by: TakeTheActive on July 14, 2007, 01:43:19 PM
Quote from: andrewg on July 14, 2007, 11:20:27 AM

...As it appears that you are the expert in this field...

Quote from: JeffVolp on July 14, 2007, 11:40:48 AM

I don't think there are any "experts" in the field.  We are all learning as the technology evolves.

Don't let him kid you - Jeff is an X10 Pioneer (see: NEWSGROUP: Comp.Home.Automation  (Read 8740 times) (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=9769.msg57506#msg57506)) and we're all very pleased to have him here sharing his vast X10 knowledge daily, initially as a Member and more recently as a Forum Moderator (Powerline Control Reliability (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?board=102.0)) and Community Organizer .

After a bit of " pleading / whing / nagging " (from another 'unnamed' CO), his excellent X10 Tutorial Series took off and just kept growing and improving:

JV Digital Engineering's X10 Troubleshooting Tutorials Series (http://jvde.us/x10_troubleshooting.htm) (http://www.geocities.com/taketheactive/Images/X10_New.gif)
Jeff has also asked for FEEDBACK and tells me, to-date, he's received NONE! >:(
Come on folks - this is EXCELLENT information that took personal time to assemble!!
If it weren't for the tireless efforts of the handful of VOLUNTEERS here, where would YOU be? :-\
And don't forget to give Jeff his well-deserved Helpful when you solve your problem(s).
Have you MAPPED out your circuits yet?

As an X10 Newbie, for a solid foundation of X10 Operation, along with the Tutorials, spend some time reading:

MAP / MEASURE / CORRECT (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=9899.msg62635#msg62635) - be sure to read the EXCELLENT articles written by JeffVolp and Puck (http://www.geocities.com/taketheactive/Images/X10_Updated_blue_sm_wte.gif)
and:
TTA's X10 Troubleshooting Tips Thread [Updated: 2007/03/05]  (Read 7334 times) (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=9899.0)

Welcome to the forums and be sure to keep it light and have fun! :D
Title: Re: New to the forum
Post by: Puck on July 14, 2007, 02:29:50 PM
andrewg: Keep in mind that the Appliance Modules will not respond to the ALL LIGHTS ON sent out by Security System when tripped.

If you still want flashing lights, you will have to keep a couple incandescent lamps around for now.
Title: Re: New to the forum
Post by: andrewg on July 15, 2007, 11:52:42 AM
Quote from: Puck on July 14, 2007, 02:29:50 PM
andrewg: Keep in mind that the Appliance Modules will not respond to the ALL LIGHTS ON sent out by Security System when tripped.

If you still want flashing lights, you will have to keep a couple incandescent lamps around for now.


I'll keep that in mind.

Thanks
Title: Re: New to the forum
Post by: dave w on July 15, 2007, 06:16:24 PM
anderwg

Socket Rockets work well with CFLs.
Title: Re: New to the forum
Post by: Boiler on July 15, 2007, 07:22:10 PM
Dave,

Do you have a particular brand/model CFL that you prefer for use with Socket Rockets?  I passed up a bargin on some Phillips CFL's today after reading all the warnings regarding dimmers and photocells (triac outputs).
Title: Re: New to the forum
Post by: KDR on July 16, 2007, 05:21:13 AM
Boiler just to chime in here as well, I have several CFL's in socket rockets. The brand I use and perfer is Phillips. Got a package of 8 in a deal. All of them work perfect and noise hasn't been an issue for me. I also have 2 from GE, 23 watt (100 watt equivalent) that seem to work OK as well.

I have had one on 24/7 for almost a year now.

(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)---(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)---(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)---(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)---(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)----KDR
Title: Re: New to the forum
Post by: Boiler on July 16, 2007, 06:37:22 AM
Thanks KDR,
From what I've seen on the Forum, there's a lot of variation in the CFL performance between manufacturers.

Nice to here from someone who's had firsthand experience (good) with a particular brand.
Title: Re: New to the forum
Post by: dave w on July 16, 2007, 03:48:56 PM
Boiler,

I am using the GE's (same ones as KDR) and some Phillips. I don't think the Socket Rockets can produce flickering in any CFL since there is no local control, and although it uses a triac, the triac is gated on hard with no dimming capability so minimal wave form distortion.  I don't think the Socket Rocket causes the CFL to produce anymore noise than what it normally might. IMHO
Title: Re: New to the forum
Post by: Boiler on July 16, 2007, 04:18:04 PM
Thanks Dave,

With two positive replies on the Phillips CFL's, I think I'll roll the dice and pick some up. 
Title: Re: New to the forum
Post by: Brian H on July 16, 2007, 04:36:24 PM
DuraBright by TCP was one to stay away from. My ELK ESM-1 and Smarthome TesterLinc both showed noise with that brand.
Title: Re: New to the forum
Post by: JeffVolp on July 16, 2007, 05:47:33 PM
Quote
DuraBright by TCP was one to stay away from.

The TCP ESN18 is another one to avoid.  They radiate in the X10 band, and were the cause of the noise captured for my CFL tutorial.  While I have not specifically tested them for noise, the n:vision bulbs we bought at Home Depot seem to work fine with ordinary X10 lamp modules.

Jeff
Title: Re: New to the forum
Post by: Boiler on July 16, 2007, 06:09:23 PM
Guys,

Sounds like there's a fair amount of CFL brand knowledge out there.  Should we include this in a sticky somewhere?  Might be useful information for CFL newbies like myself (actually you've already helped me).
Title: Re: New to the forum
Post by: KDR on July 16, 2007, 07:40:10 PM
An update on the GE Helical 13 watt and 26 watt CFL's. (60 watt and 100 watt equivalent) The 13 watt unit has a fully enclosed base while the 26 watt unit has ventilation holes in the top of the base. Both have specs that say do not use with dimmers, in fully enclosed (sealed) or recessed fixtures.

I just did testing on both of these using an appliance module. Both performed with out any problems. Local current sensing works great and when in the off mode there is no flickering. Neither one of these hampered the use of any other X10 device on the same circuit or other circuits.

(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)---(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)---(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)---(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)---(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)----KDR
Title: Re: New to the forum
Post by: TakeTheActive on July 18, 2007, 12:44:13 PM
Quote from: Boiler on July 16, 2007, 06:09:23 PM

...Sounds like there's a fair amount of CFL brand knowledge out there.  Should we include this in a sticky somewhere?  Might be useful information for CFL newbies...

Why bother? Re: A Legislative Upheaval For X-10  (Read 2063 times) (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=11934.msg68021#msg68021) >:(

It's been my observation that the majority of the:


And, besides those two points, there aren't enough ->ACTIVE<- Community Organizers on the forum to MAINTAIN any new STICKYs (or even perform something as simple as MOVE incorrectly-located new posts to the appropriate forums. Just take a look around and you'll see. It's depressing...).  :( :-[ ::)