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So, I've been playing with the X10 stuff for about a week or so now. Here are the two biggest gripes from the wife :)
1. The biggest is with the wall switches. I have WS467 on a few lights (If it doesn't work out, I don't want to have to remove a whole bunch and such). The problem that she has is this: the dimming function. Is there any way to set these up so that if you press the button they just turn bright on or totally off? No dimming? The problem has been the length of time on pressing the button can either lead to a partially on or off light, and you have to then stand there holding the button until you get it right. I get frustrated by this from time to time as well.
2. I think I know the problem with this one as it more than likely is attributed to the building phases, but some of the lights are just not responsive period. All of my "high end" electronics are on separate breakers from the rest of the house on their own conditioned power, but still tie into the rest of the house (not ruling out noise from them). But I'm guessing this is going to need some sort of phase coupler or something. I'm going to turn on an appliance that bridges the two power phases and see if the other modules operate while it is on.
I do have activehome, but not configured just yet with a USB CM15A (tried Linux with it- it just wont work under that environment..... >sigh< guess I have to have a windows box in the house).
Any suggestions to #1 (maybe other products that will work with X10) would be GREAT. I'd love to have something work, but if it doesn't then all the home automation stuff gets pulled out (the argument is that "I shouldn't have to relearn how to operate a light switch", for which I agree; it's a standard interface that everyone knows how to use).
Thanks.
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A WS467 will only dim if the dim function is coming from timer or macro. Pressing the button (local control) turns the light(s) on or off - no dim.
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I agree with Dan. I don't know all the switch model numbers off the top of my head but the standard X10 wall switch doesn't dim locally unless you modify it to do that.
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keyboardgnome,
After reading the description of the WS467 (I don't personally have these), I have to agree with Dan and Steve. Per the online instructions, you cannot dim this (pushbutton) switch locally - only by remote.
WS467 Manual
ftp://ftp.x10.com/pub/manuals/ws467-is.pdf (http://ftp://ftp.x10.com/pub/manuals/ws467-is.pdf)
That being said, I don't doubt for a second that your switch is actually dimming when your wife presses it for and period of time (after 25 years I've learned to always listen to the wife).
That leaves a few options:
- Your switch is a paddle type WS12a with local dimming. Manual: ftp://ftp.x10.com/pub/manuals/ws12a-14a-is.pdf (http://ftp://ftp.x10.com/pub/manuals/ws12a-14a-is.pdf)
- You live outside the US/Canada and this switch has been designed to different standards (the forum has had a number of posts from abroad recently - devices functioning "differently")
- This is a re-designed switch from X10 and the manuals (and the forum experience) is out of date. Again, there have been posts regarding "newly designed" modules that don't necessarily respond the way that "our" modules do.
Please let us know if any of the above is the case.
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I just checked my WS467 switch which is about 8 months old and it does not support local dimming. I do dim mine from time to time using a remote.
(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)---(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)---(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)---(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)---(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)----KDR
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The X10 Knowledge base still indicates WS467 only dims by remote. That still could be out of date after recent findings on the Lamp Module and soft starts.
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This all too interesting- I've installed 3 of these switches, and when I press the buttons on them they dim on or off. If I press and hold these buttons, I can select various brightness levels.
The boxes that these came in say exactly what I had ordered: WS467.
If anyone wants, I can video record and post what I am having.
Either there's something going on with all three units, or they repacked something else in these boxes and sent them to me.
I still dont have activehome setup or any other macro system.
I do live in the US, so nothing outside.
Any other ideas?
I'm wondering if these have been updated. I have 6 total, and have installed 3.
The boxes say: Wall Switch Module Model WS467. Inside of the packaging is the WS467 and other packing material.
The manual that comes with it is titled "Wall Dimmer Set Up and Operations Instructions Model WS467" indicating the dimmer function. The manual that comes with it says the exact same things you folks say, however when I press the button to turn it off (a quick tap), it dims off on all 3 modules. Same to turn on.
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It sounds like X10 has added soft start AND dim from local on these switches.
I would think that with X10's love for advertising they would be all over this and promoting it on there web pages.
(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)---(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)---(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)---(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)---(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)----KDR
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I'm calling their support right now to see what they have to say. I'll report back once I hear something.
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keyboardgnome,
Please do report back with your findings (this may prevent many others from having the same problems). As I said, I in no way doubt what you are seeing. X10 may have "enhanced" their modules with the documentation is playing catch-up.
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Bad units. I wish I had a "batch" or "serial" number to report.
I spoke with Brett who is going to do an advanced RMA so that I am not without switches for 2 weeks.
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Bad units. I wish I had a "batch" or "serial" number to report.
I spoke with Brett who is going to do an advanced RMA so that I am not without switches for 2 weeks.
Bad unit's that operate the load but dim locally?? That sounds like a new one.
Please let us know how the replacement units perform.
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Will do. Part of me wonders if they're honestly bad, or someone hasnt informed their user base or tech support of "new features". Hey, that isnt a bug.... ITS A FEATURE! (insert divide by 0 here)
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Will do. Part of me wonders if they're honestly bad, or someone hasnt informed their user base or tech support of "new features". Hey, that isnt a bug.... ITS A FEATURE! (insert divide by 0 here)
Very possible, and you can't blame tech support for "enhancements" that haven't been flowed down.
I been on the receiving end of some enhancements. One of these resulted in the grounding of an entire model of aircraft due to an "insignificant" change (that wasn't worthy of mention) on the part of a supplier. I can't honestly say that we would have twigged to the implications of the changed at the time, but it would have been very helpful to have a change record to track back to.
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Did they decide to put a Jesus bolt on an airplane? :)
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Did they decide to put a Jesus bolt on an airplane? :)
Close - pilots generally aren't happy about an engine shutdown, much less during a carrier landing (this occurred during the 80's). No loss of aircraft (loa) or loss of life (lol in my vernacular - always sends chills when I see it in posts) but that is probably due to the skill of the pilots themselves.
And yes, I work with helicopters as well.
Helicopters don't actually fly - they're so ugly, the earth repels them!
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Bad units. I wish I had a "batch" or "serial" number to report.
I spoke with Brett who is going to do an advanced RMA so that I am not without switches for 2 weeks.
Bad units? You would not believe the trouble people go through to modify the out of the box switches to make them dim.
http://www.instructables.com/tag/keyword:ws467/
Amusingly from the link above, at the time I checked, the instructions on how to "disassemble x10 wall switch" had been viewed 1,092 times while the instructions on how to "reassemble x10 wall switch" only had been viewed 844 times. Does that mean 248 people are quick learners or that they gave up. I, for one, wouldn't want to take one apart.
http://www.instructables.com/id/ECP6XSBHCOEP286ENA/
Interesting they have to add components to the design to keep it from dimming! The the link above shows you how to short them and give the switch local dimming.
Let us know if the new switches do the same thing. It wouldn't be the first time a design change was made without a module change. Also it wouldn't be the first time customer service was in the dark to a change.
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I spoke with Brett who is going to do an advanced RMA so that I am not without switches for 2 weeks.
It almost sounds like maybe they sent them out and weren't suppose to and now they want them back quick. ??? Maybe an accidental release on a new or improved module. It would be nice to have a switch that operates like this along with one that operates like the older WS467.
(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)---(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)---(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)---(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)---(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)----KDR
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The functional problem with them and the dimming feature is the time to enable or disable the dimming function...
You press the button, but hold it just a fraction too long your lights are half way on. To get them to be full bright again, you have to tap the switch to turn it off. Then press and hold the switch until the lights are all the way bright again, otherwise they're now "preset" to whatever LUX you were getting with them dimmed. Oh, and the reverse applies too if you turn them off.
So, in short, turning *on* the lights just turned into a 10+ second procedure and ordeal.
If they wanted to integrate the dimming function into the physical interface, I would HIGHLY recommend a different form factor. Otherwise, people will get frustrated.
I'll report back in regards to the replacement modules.
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Hmm.
Several of my WS467s are new (bought in the last six months) and none of them do what you described. Are these X10 USA sold ones or by someone else like Smarthome?
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Nope- phone order to x10.com
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Then it appears X10 USA changed them. Strange. I buy new ones either from my local dealer or dealers like Automated Outlet.
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My moneys with KDR's theory. These are new units, and either the well organized X10 web information has not yet been updated OR China made, packaged, and shipped them under the wrong part number (as in a new model, not set up for market yet).
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My moneys with KDR's theory. These are new units, and either the well organized X10 web information has not yet been updated OR China made, packaged, and shipped them under the wrong part number (as in a new model, not set up for market yet).
OR... Since modifying standard ones to dim requires shorting some components with a blob of solder (see link in my previous post), he could of just gotten one that made it through QA with an extra blob of solder on the board.
(I'm still betting on a new undocumented module change.)
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Any other ideas?
I go with the "undocumented enhancement" theory. And, with the history of POOR COMMUNICATIONS in X10 Corp, don't expect the telephone Tech Support to know much about it.
If anyone wants, I can video record and post what I am having.
I would like to have one of your switches for experimentation and observation purposes. Perhaps I can get MichaelM involved to see if you indeed received some "flukes" :o , or the WS467 was recently "enhanced" (like the LM465 ;) ).
...however when I press the button to turn it off (a quick tap), it dims off on all 3 modules. Same to turn on.
I have an ~20 year old "One-Way WS" (either X10 or RadioShack - too long ago to remember) that I modified per instructions that I believe I found on Ido's site. Briefly, best as I can remember, I removed the push-button and slide switches completely, made a simple mod to the circuit board, soldered 2 wires to the circuit board, extending them through the hole from the missing switches, attached them to a modified (added the spring from a ball-point pen under the paddle to force it to become momentary) Leviton non-X10 paddle switch and dremeled the 'ears' off the WS so that I could "stuff" it into the utility box *BEHIND* the modified Leviton switch.
Since this is a 'one-of-a-kind' in my house, it's sometimes difficult to remember that ON requires a 'quick tap' or else you're stuck in the BRIGHT/DIM cycle. If I do forget though, which happens often, a release followed by 2 'quick taps' usually turns it OFF then ON. Personally, I cannot see X10 Corp providing an "additional-cost-to-manufacture" enhancement without passing that cost along to the consumer, so - do 2 'quick taps' work for your version? ;)
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Did they decide to put a Jesus bolt on an airplane? :)
Are you a pilot or aviation mechanic?
Jesus Bolt
Most helicopters have two of these bolts. The Jesus bolts are the bolts that hold the main mast to the frame, and the head to the main mast. If you loose either one of these bolts your entire rotorhead will seperate from your helicopter. They're called a "Jesus Bolt" because when they break the pilot was known to say "Oh Jesus!"
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.... so - do 2 'quick taps' work for your version? ;)
I'll try this tonight and report back. Thanks.
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Are you a pilot or aviation mechanic?
Nope- I'm one of these folks who's a jack of all trades and a master of nothing. But having a friend who is an aeronautical engineer helps with this kind of knowledge :)
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...And yes, I work with helicopters as well.
Helicopters don't actually fly - they're so ugly, the earth repels them!
Something about "Helicopters are comprised of ~1000 individual parts constantly attempting to vibrate themselves free..."
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OR... Since modifying standard ones to dim requires shorting some components with a blob of solder (see link in my previous post), he could of just gotten one that made it through QA with an extra blob of solder on the board.
(I'm still betting on a new undocumented module change.)
Yes, except look at keyboardgnomes second post...he has three of them and he descibes what might be soft starts. So I'm hoping they indeed are a new model, but I tend to think it is still some knd of mistake. X10's CS treated it as bad modules (when they really don't sound bad) and I bet TTA is correct when he said it ain't like X10 to incorporate new desired features without a price increase.
My interest is piqued...I'm excited!
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The functional problem with them and the dimming feature is the time to enable or disable the dimming function...
You press the button, but hold it just a fraction too long your lights are half way on. To get them to be full bright again, you have to tap the switch to turn it off. Then press and hold the switch until the lights are all the way bright again, otherwise they're now "preset" to whatever LUX you were getting with them dimmed. Oh, and the reverse applies too if you turn them off.
So, in short, turning *on* the lights just turned into a 10+ second procedure and ordeal.
If they wanted to integrate the dimming function into the physical interface, I would HIGHLY recommend a different form factor. Otherwise, people will get frustrated.
Assuming this is a "new" hardware version - this sounds somewhat similar to a firmware problem that Smarthome is/was having with their relay switches.
Theory-
The firmware samples in switch contact for X period of time in order to de-bounce the switch. If an on command is confirmed, sampling continues for Y period (total time X+Y) and the PLC interprets the the command as a bright/dim. In this case the X+Y time doesn't appear to be long enough (too easy to enter the bright/dim mode).
I agree that the dimming feature doesn't seem appropriate with a push button style switch. Maybe X10 included a "disable" feature and the documentation hasn't caught up?
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.... so - do 2 'quick taps' work for your version? ;)
I'll try this tonight and report back. Thanks.
Doesnt work like you had suggested. It still dims.
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.... so - do 2 'quick taps' work for your version? ;)
I'll try this tonight and report back. Thanks.
Doesnt work like you had suggested. It still dims.
If it dims with just a tap, it might truly be a defective switch. I'd love to see the the board inside but of course that would void the warranty. I'm looking forward to seeing how the replacement ones work.
keyboardgnome: Write down any numbers and letters you find on those dimming ones particularly if it has a little round number/letter sticker on the back. I believe that is a date code. e.g. I just pulled 4 of my spares out of their boxes. 3 had the code "06H35" and one had the code "05K48". I believe the first pair of numbers indicate the year.
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...Nope- I'm one of these folks who's a jack of all trades and a master of nothing...
I would imagine that most of the "Old Geezers" here are like that - it takes one of those "creative, multi-talented" minds to get X10 working... :D
Please visit: GUESTS/LURKERS: Why Don't You Register (and Become NEWBIEs)? (Read 22775 times) (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=10503.msg58932#msg58932) and add your "Intro[/size]".
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If it dims with just a tap, it might truly be a defective switch. I'd love to see the the board inside but of course that would void the warranty. I'm looking forward to seeing how the replacement ones work.
keyboardgnome: Write down any numbers and letters you find on those dimming ones particularly if it has a little round number/letter sticker on the back. I believe that is a date code. e.g. I just pulled 4 of my spares out of their boxes. 3 had the code "06H35" and one had the code "05K48". I believe the first pair of numbers indicate the year.
Say Boiler,
If keyboardgnome supplies the Date Codes, how about adding this to the "X10 Module Firmware Revision History" Database?
Has anyone supplied any Date Codes for the "new" SoftStart LM465s?
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...Doesnt work like you had suggested. It still dims.
PM me *BEFORE* you ship them all back.
If I can't pre-arrange something with MichaelM, I'll "BUY" one from you directly (just to get one to play around with it. How much did you pay? 8) ).
Thanks! :)
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All - I bought the 5 pack, and they want all 5 back for the RMA
http://www.x10.com/automation/ws467_s.html
That was the kit.
The numbers on them are: 07A05
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...Nope- I'm one of these folks who's a jack of all trades and a master of nothing...
I would imagine that most of the "Old Geezers" here are like that - it takes one of those "creative, multi-talented" minds to get X10 working... :D
Please visit: GUESTS/LURKERS: Why Don't You Register (and Become NEWBIEs)? (Read 22775 times) (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=10503.msg58932#msg58932) and add your "Intro[/size]".
I'll think about doing that. I'm a cyber security guy by trade; as such I generally dont talk too much about myself except for a minor hole in the wall website. Oh, and I don't want to be called a 'whipper snapper' by anyone :)
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...The numbers on them are: 07A05
If my guess is right as to the date codes, that would make them a batch from this year. My guess is that the letter represents the month and the last two numbers the date. Be sure and let us know the number/letter codes on the replacements.
I think you may of mentioned it already but they all have this dimming "bug/feature/defect", right?
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...The numbers on them are: 07A05
If my guess is right as to the date codes, that would make them a batch from this year. My guess is that the letter represents the month and the last two numbers the date. Be sure and let us know the number/letter codes on the replacements.
I think you may of mentioned it already but they all have this dimming "bug/feature/defect", right?
yup
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Say Boiler,
If keyboardgnome supplies the Date Codes, how about adding this to the "X10 Module Firmware Revision History" Database?
Has anyone supplied any Date Codes for the "new" SoftStart LM465s?
Absolutely, this is exactly why were putting the Database together - to capture "idiosyncrasies" of particular date code/firmware revisions. If we can compile enough information, maybe people won't have to keeping reliving problems documented by others.
keyboardgnome,
The best we've been able to determine, the date code 07A05 corresponds to a manufacture date of January ("A"), fifth week ("05"), 2007 ("07"). There may also be a firmware revision label. The format for these is typically PxxxxxE where the "E" is the firmware revision. My RR501 transceiver has a firmware label of P10283E.
Please let me know any nomenclature on your new modules - and how they function of course.
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So, good news and bad news.....
My RMA is being processed. Apparently, what I'm experiencing is being rolled out in all of their new switches. So, for me, I have to see if I "luck out" in getting some of the old inventory.
The dimming feature is called "smart touch" I think?
So, it's a feature, not a bug.
They also indicated that they have no plans, as of yet, on having two separate lines: one with dimming, another with out. I'm also not the only one complaining about this. Go figure.
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Would have been nice if the part number was changed or a version number was available. So that we could see what we where getting.
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I agree, a separate part number would have been nice. Some folks like this feature, others don't. They should state that it is there on their website.
Personally, I find it annoying that if the switch contact is held down for just a bit too long, it can take 2 minutes to 'turn on the lights' (happened again when I returned from vacation and was 'out of practice' on how to turn on my lights). Oh well, at least they're trying to find me some of the older ones that are still in inventory. If what they send doesn't do what we want it too, I'm returning the whole kit. :-\
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So they sent me the ivory batch. They work the way we want to! And the first two digits are "06", so obviously old inventory. Only have an odd problem to work out, but I think a filter would be the solution (bedroom light, I can only turn off or dim if another light is on in the room. it doesnt do anything otherise. if I turn on a fan, it doesnt respond to any other x10 commands).
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I've acquired several of the redesigned WS467 Wall Switch Modules. These have date code sticker 07E21. Their characteristics differ radically from the original WS467 but also in several ways from the redesigned LM465 plug-in Lamp Module.
My report is available online at http://www.heyu.org/docs/New_WS467.txt
Not mentioned in the report (I'll need to revise it) is that, like the LM14A and redesigned LM467, these modules support Extended Code group commands, i.e., several modules can be configured as a group and afterwards can be turned on to their individual brightness levels with a single 'group execute' command.
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...My report is available online at http://www.heyu.org/docs/New_WS467.txt
- Manually converted from (?Linux?) .TXT to simple .HTML to allow automatic 'on-the-fly' width reformatting to screen and/or paper size.
- Corrected one typo.
- Added several revisions to improve clarity, IMO.
For your approval: New_WS467.Html (http://www.geocities.com/taketheactive/Files/Shared/New_WS467.Html)
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Will the new WS467 switches retain a preset brightness level in the event of a power interruption?
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My report is available online at http://www.heyu.org/docs/New_WS467.txt
Thanks for your hard work. Much needed information. It get's a helpful from me! :D
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Will the new WS467 switches retain a preset brightness level in the event of a power interruption?
The WS467 I have on test right now seems to retains the setting for a little while, and during that time will come back on to that setting when the power resumes. It retained the setting for an interruption of 30 seconds but lost the setting after an interruption of 1 minute. (I can't say that it retained the exact setting, only that it came back up looking about as dim as prior to being powered down.)
So it does not have non-volatile memory. I suspect the exact retention period will be lot dependent and also dependent on other factors like temperature and humidity.
(I rigged a HandyBox with a WS467, a receptacle, and a plug cord so I can test wall switch modules without having to constantly flip breakers in my breaker box.)
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...My report is available online at http://www.heyu.org/docs/New_WS467.txt
- Manually converted from (?Linux?) .TXT to simple .HTML to allow automatic 'on-the-fly' width reformatting to screen and/or paper size.
- Corrected one typo.
- Added several revisions to improve clarity, IMO.
For your approval: New_WS467.Html (http://www.geocities.com/taketheactive/Files/Shared/New_WS467.Html)
Good work TTA. But does the original .txt file not render properly in your browser? It looks OK to me in Internet Explorer under Win XP. (I may have forgotten to change the end-of-line characters to DOS style, but that should affect only reading a saved copy with Notepad.)
Since my earlier message today on this subject I've posted a revision noting the Extended Code group functions. I'll consider your suggestion of converting to HTML and your typo/clarity revisions.
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Good work TTA. But does the original .txt file not render properly in your browser? It looks OK to me in Internet Explorer under Win XP. (I may have forgotten to change the end-of-line characters to DOS style, but that should affect only reading a saved copy with Notepad.)
It does display "as intended". But, if I *HAVE* to nit-pick ::) I guess I'd say that they looked CLUNKY / OLD-FASHIONED / SQUISHED UP TO THE LEFT. :o
It's so rare nowadays to see hyphenated words. And the lone 0Ahs instead of 0A0Dh pairs *DO* look funny in Notepad. ;)
...Since my earlier message today on this subject I've posted a revision noting the Extended Code group functions. I'll consider your suggestion of converting to HTML and your typo/clarity revisions.
Whatever you decide to do is fine with me. Since I was going through the effort for myself (to print both documents out), I just thought that I'd make them available for anyone else.
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Good work TTA. But does the original .txt file not render properly in your browser? It looks OK to me in Internet Explorer under Win XP. (I may have forgotten to change the end-of-line characters to DOS style, but that should affect only reading a saved copy with Notepad.)
It does display "as intended". But, if I *HAVE* to nit-pick ::) I guess I'd say that they looked CLUNKY / OLD-FASHIONED / SQUISHED UP TO THE LEFT. :o
Well hey... what else would you expect from a CLUNKY/OLD FASHIONED/SQUISHED UP/RIGHT-WING LEFTIST type of guy like me. :D
It's so rare nowadays to see hyphenated words. And the lone 0Ahs instead of 0A0Dh pairs *DO* look funny in Notepad. ;)
It's kind of rare to see the language used properly at all nowadays. (I'll convert the EOL characters to that CLUNKY/OLD FASHIONED DOS style at the earliest opportunity.)
...Since my earlier message today on this subject I've posted a revision noting the Extended Code group functions. I'll consider your suggestion of converting to HTML and your typo/clarity revisions.
Whatever you decide to do is fine with me. Since I was going through the effort for myself (to print both documents out), I just thought that I'd make them available for anyone else.
My attempt to save a clean copy of your HTML (unencumbered with Geocities advertising) reminded me why I prefer plain old ASCII text. ;)
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...My attempt to save a clean copy of your HTML (unencumbered with Geocities advertising) reminded me why I prefer plain old ASCII text. ;)
Advertising? What advertising?
Oh yeah, I forgot - you use Linux. :P
There are Windows FREEWARE Tools, such as Proxomitron N42 for IE and Adblock / Adblock Plus for Firefox, that have been 'hiding' all sorts of advertisements / popups / etc... for me for YEARS. Also, IIRC, you should be able to RIGHT-CLICK (even in a Linux browser) and get an option "View Source", which should separate the "wheat from the chaff" since the GeoCities advertisements are in a separate frame.
Regardless, I will E-Mail you a copy of both files shortly...
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...My attempt to save a clean copy of your HTML (unencumbered with Geocities advertising) reminded me why I prefer plain old ASCII text. ;)
Advertising? What advertising?
Oh yeah, I forgot - you use Linux. :P
There are Windows FREEWARE Tools, such as Proxomitron N42 for IE and Adblock / Adblock Plus for Firefox, that have been 'hiding' all sorts of advertisements / popups / etc... for me for YEARS. Also, IIRC, you should be able to RIGHT-CLICK (even in a Linux browser) and get an option "View Source", which should separate the "wheat from the chaff" since the GeoCities advertisements are in a separate frame.
Yeah, but there's a Catch-22: If I were running Windows and AHP, I probably wouldn't have been able to adequately characterize the redesigned modules in the first place. :-\
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I think there is something wrong with the switches, I just bought them two weeks ago and one they don't work from timers [ that could be the software and the] and two some times when you turn them on at the switch sometimes they are all the way dimmed and appear to be off. I have to pick up my remote and turn up the brightness. I thought the wall switch wasn't working because of this "undocumented feature" until I realized they were on but 99% dimmed.
As far as working with timers i have another thread going so I won't too deep into that. In short I've never gotten them to turn on a dusk with the dusk to dawn timer, but they always work via remote control at any time of the day.