X10 Community Forum
🖥️ActiveHome Pro => ActiveHome Pro General => Topic started by: roger1818 on May 24, 2005, 02:08:17 PM
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Richard: Your problem cannot be fixed in software. This is a hardware problem with either your CM15A or your SS13A. For X10 to tell their software developers to stop working and start twiddling their thumbs because some users have hardware problems would be asinine.
OP:
You'll use the new macro commands in a fashion similar to the RF commands. They're generic commands for addressing, extended codes, and preset dim. Their main purpose is to make it easier for you to work with some of the modules that we don't make -- ones that need different command sets or structures.
I would recommend to concentrate on the X10 units, make them all work! before considering other makers! To have a SS13A that only works in less than 3 feet from the CM15A, this is assinine!
[TTA Edit #2: Experiment to determine whether or not DELETING the OP (*AFTER* copying it into Reply #1) in 'Highly-Viewed' / 'Highly-Replied' but currently INACTIVE threads from LONG, LONG AGO (I'm starting with ~2 years) will allow current ACTIVE threads to appear in the Top 10 Topics (by Views) section of the Statistics Center (aka More Stats) (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?action=stats) Page.]
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RogerH
Seaking of asinine! What good is it to
program units that don't woik? Rattling off
with the mouth before brain in gear may be
your forte,....
In any case to reiterate, my pont is why
worry about other hardware if the home
grown will not wrk to start with.
I am stil using radio Shack modules that
are 20 years old and work very well, thank
you very much.
BUT, I think I'm wasting my time trying to
get some sense into you.
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Richard: My-oh-my, you sure like to sling
mud. There is no point even trying to
rebut someone who thinks insults are a
substitute for intelligent debate. I am
sorry if you took my disagreeing with you
as a personal insult.
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I kind of agree with Richard the 1st.
Judging by all of the complaints about
similar problems from alot of different
people X10 should concentrate on the
existing problems. According to what
X10pro said they have only addressed 1
problem in the next update. I am glad I am
no relying on the CM15A to control my
system. Obviosly X10 is not acknowledging
the problems are real. If I were having
these problems I would raise HELL.
Just my 2 cents.
T.
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Tcassio: If I was having all these
problems, I too would be raising hell, but
I am not and unlike you, I am actively
using AHP. I currently only have one
problem and I have found a way to get
around it so it isn’t a big concern to me.
I think Richard’s problem can be fixed by
replacing hardware (probably the SS13A).
I am not sure what you guys want the
software designers to do, fly to Richards
house to hand deliver him replacement
hardware? Even with the Hardware problems,
there is not much the software designers
can do so why not let them do their job and
update the software?
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As always, there are two sides to consider.
For example, I don't really use any functions
that are time-based. Therefore, MOST of the
more common hardware/software complaints that
I see here don't affect me.
There are other problems that DO affect the
operation of my unit, which probably don't
seem important to others.
Obviously some fixes will be easier
to solve than others.
No doubt some of "my" fixes moved down the
list of priorities, as more critical problems
were discovered. However, they can't be put
off indefinitely. Moreover, it is possible
that some of these low-priority fixes MAY
impact some of the other problems that users
are experiencing.
In any event, I am confident that X10
will address each issue as soon as they can.
T
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It is the software designers job to write /
improve code; however assuming X10 has a
finite budget, the X10 bosses could make the
decision to instead of paying software
designers to write code, they could instead
use that money to pay hardware people to fix
the hardware, assuming some of the "issues"
are hardware based. So to me, the probelm I
have is some of the decisions the X10 bosses
are making, I have no personal beef with the
X10 programmers - they are simply doing what
they are told.
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"I am not sure what you guys want the
software designers to do, fly to Richards
house to hand deliver him replacement
hardware? Even with the Hardware
problems, there is not much the software
designers can do so why not let them do
their job and update the software?"
After this gem of wisdom I'm sure no
comment is nexesary, ....... hole in the
round and all, no difference.
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Edited:
After this gem of wisdom I'm sure no
comment is necessary, ....... hole in the
ground and all, no difference.
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Roger,
I had stated that Richard and SEVERAL
others are having problems which proves
they are not isolated to a few. The
software engineers are partially at fault
because of all the inconsistancies that
exist in the many different environments
there are. I don't see problems from
software that comes from other software
vendors. If Symantec put out software as
buggy as AHP they would not be where they
are today. Besides its not the bugs that
are the problem, its the fact that X10 will
not acknowledge that they exist, and how
long it takes them to correct them.
T.
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I have all the schematic and key component
data sheets in the link below.
Anyone with technical background can draw
his or her own conclusions.
Here is my own:
Due to a hardware bug in the micro-
controller used, GPIO can not be used(X10
confirmed this, they are not using GPIO),
a new version of the chip “Encore II” it’s
not backward compatible. The external
memory used to store macros, is 2 wire
serial interface(I2C), the Encore chip
does not have a hardware I2C, this means
all
external memory read must be done bit-
banged, the RF receiver needs to be
polled
and the PLC interface is else polled. There
is no way that this processor can possibly
receive an RF signal while is transmitting
PLC commands; in one of my test while the
CM15a was sending a series of Dim commands
I send an RF signal via palm remote, it
crashed every time. In some application it
may barely work and could be satisfactory
to some customers, but any one that uses
complex macros + RF ( motion detector
etc..) he or she will have problems. Now
for the hopeful if you have a TM751 or an
RR501, try holding the palm remote dim
button, both transceiver will lock up and
need to be unplugged to reset them; in
order to fix the transceivers (RR501 and
TM751) a simple activation of the built in
Watch-Dog timer will fix them (a very
simple firmware changes); if X10 never
fixed the RR501 and the TM751 (practically
a no cost fix) does anybody believes that
X10 will fix the hardware and than be
forced to recall all CM15a?
http://members.shaw.ca/cm15a-
info\CM15aSchematic.zip
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Carmine: Thank you! I don’t deny that
there are some serious limitations in the
hardware and you are probably right in that
X10 will not fix them any time soon. My
point has been that you usually can’t fix
hardware problems in software.
However, AHP works well for me for now. I
am not against the idea of replacing it
with something better in the future, but I
will wait for the dust to settle with
Insteon before making my next move (my
guess is that there will be a new version
of the 1132CUP within the next few
months). At that time I will re-evaluate
my situation. In the mean time, I like
having X10 add features for me to play with.
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Roger H
Just about everything on the market these
days have flaws, to many company rush to
market with unfinished products; just
because the products are programmable it
does not mean software can fix everything.
It’s up to the consumer to decide if he or
she can tolerate the deficiency of the
product. There always be a better product
just around the corner, what I find it
amazing is people do not rush to buy a new
car every time a new model is released, so
why there is such need to upgrade computer
based equipment at every new release? Being
at the leading edge of technology it is
else referred to” Bleeding edge” it can
drain both financially and mentally.
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Part 2 of 2
In home automation, the technology has not
change much at all in a very long time.
Many of the modules sold today are the same
as the modules that were sold 20 years
ago. Since the protocol was developed in
the late 70’s, it has only undergone one
major revision in the early 90’s to add
extended code commands.
Although Insteon is not technically an
extension of the X10 protocol, it is both
forwards and backwards compatible with
X10. Since the computer controller is the
heart of your system, it makes sense for it
to be compatible with both protocols. If
the historical trend of one major upgrade
approximately every 15 years continues, it
might be worth waiting a few months to see
how Insteon pans out (the first modules are
hitting the shelves right now).
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Part 1 of 2
Carmine: I tend to agree with you.
However there are differences between the
development of computer, automotive and
home automation technologies.
Computer technology tends to follow (suffer
from?) Moore’s Law where the number of
transistors per sq in doubles every year.
Because of this, technology that is 6
months old is considered obsolete and can
be bought quite affordably. This also
means that computers today are
approximately 4 times more powerful than
the computer you bought 2 years ago. We
have reached a point where the average
person doesn’t really need that extra
power, but to prevent a decline in sales,
developers in the industry are continuously
looking for new applications that require
the consumer to need more and more power.
Automotive Technology is much slower in
development. The car you buy today is not
that much different from the one you bought
5 years ago. Some people like to buy a new
car every year, but most people wait until
their car no longer meets their needs.
This typically is not because of changes in
technology but because either their
personal circumstances have changed or the
car’s reliability doesn’t meet their
standards.
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Roger H
You are right, but I only upgrade or
purchase a new computer only if the old one
not longer serves me.
As far as Insteon, if users and 3rd party
vendors do not embrace it may no go far, I
am not so sure I want to beta test new
products for free again, CM15a and AHP has
been bad enough experience that I will wait
for other peoples to be the guinea pigs
this time around.
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Well guys,
I to like being on the "bleeding edge". I
purchased the Insteon starter kit, and I
can tell you that it is everything that X10
should have been after being around so
long. The starter kit is very basic, 1
tabletop controller, 2 RF receivers, and 2
lamp modules. The equipment is very fast
and responsive. There seems to be no
problems co habitating with X10 equipment.
It works as advertised. I have a little
more faith in Smarthome than X10 thats why
I didn't hesitate to dive into the Insteon
arena. You can assign X10 address to the
Insteon modules as well as address them
thru Insteon protocol. The equipment is
well made and so far works as advertised.
Oh, and I can controll the lamp modules
from my 1132 CU thru X10 commands.
T.
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Tcassio
I have no doubt of Smarthome quality, I
replaced some X10 switches with
ToggleLinc , great product worth the extra
cost, I think X10 is permanently off my
list of vendors.
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The biggest problem with X10 are the
mentally challenged that do not recognize
where problems are originating.
Grant you, there are some shortcommings in
the software, but all in all my system
works, plain and simple.
I analize modules and controllers and
establish hardware performane based on
facts.
All my modules in various locations work as
per schedule. Like I said before X10 may be
trying too hard to satisfy dingalings
rather then the meat and potato crowd.
I have no use for the mental giants that
find it necessaey to constantly piss in the
stew.
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Richard the 1st: Bravo!!! I haven't posted
much lately because I've been watching the
chefs and the stew (as you put it).
Bottom line... Have a Problem? find it, fix
it, deal with X-10, if not satisfied, move
on!
And, it you're still not as technically
savy as you may thing... get a pro!
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Richard the 1st 5/24/2005 11:04 AM
“I would recommend to concentrate on the
X10 units, make them all work! before
considering other makers!”
Richard the 1st 5/26/2005 08:48 PM
“All my modules in various locations work
as per schedule.”
Glad to see that in those 2.5 days you got
everything working.
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"Roger H. 5/27/2005 06:39 AM
Richard the 1st 5/24/2005 11:04 AM
“I would recommend to concentrate on the
X10 units, make them all work! before
considering other makers!”
Richard the 1st 5/26/2005 08:48 PM
“All my modules in various locations work
as per schedule.”
Glad to see that in those 2.5 days you got
everything working."
Speaking like a true simpleton. I am
referring to odules of the stupid kind. The
ones one installs in outlets and wall
switches. As to those that I found not
working to expectations, there is no use
flogging a dead horse. This pleasure I
leave to masochists like you.
I am sure X10 will, given time, rectify
some of the hardware RF problems.
I am running MS Win 98 and there are
updates still coming up.
There are winners and there are losers, no
doubt in my mind which challenged camp you
are supporting.
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guys, this the x10 forum not the crap on
anyone with an opinion forum. stop quoting
each other like a bunch of whiney children
and lets get back to the real reason why we
are all here!!!
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This thread is reminding me of why I
stopped reading Usenet over a decade ago.
I got tired of the flame wars.
These forums are great for sharing ideas
and helping people who are having
problems. Don’t get me wrong, I am not
against discussion and debate, but lets try
to focus on the problems, not the people.
Insults will not help anyone. I realize
that I am as guilty as others in this and
for that I am sorry.
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"This is more of an annoyance than anything
since it does work properly with C5 BSOLUTE
100% but I should be able to dim C5 in the
macro"
Ergo, problem is in the software, no?
if I want to."
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BTW! This forum software S T I N K S!
Can't edit, etc., etc,. etc. The message
window is too small!
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Richard: Yes it is a software problem. I
said in an earlier post that I only have
one and it is minor. That is it.
As for the message window, I do most of my
editing in Word and then paste it into the
forum. That way you get the added benefit
of a spell checker.
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RogerH
My point on the forum software; It is the
overall impression one gets from it. Looks
like some banana republic product. How do
you expect to present an admirable
impression peddling your wares walking in
sandals. In my past I did sell Fuller Brush
stuff. Who would buy anything from a
dilapidated individual or company? That’s
what the forum software presents. YAK!
Having to use MS Word to enter text is
bordering on asinine!
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Richard,
Are there other X10 manufacturers that offer
"real time" discussion forums ? Where ?
I think this forums architecture is quite
adaquate although I think Roger H's. solution
for spell check is spiffy.
SteveRF
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SteveRF: The other manufacturers don't have to offer a
real time forum because their stuff works. I installed items
from another manufacturer two months ago and I haven't
had one problem yet. Your defense of X10 is sweet but a
little misguided. These forums are here and they are busy
because the product is flawed.
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I agree with Randy,
I have many products (work related) witch
the vendors offers real time forums, the
most active have only a handful of post per
year: their product works as it should.
For example my IAR C compiler for Atmel AVR
micro-controller had 1 minor bug fix,
since I purchased it 1 year ego; AHP had
about 86 updates in less than a year:
it’s not something to be proud of but
ashamed of; not even products in Alpha
stage are this buggy.
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I agree with Randy,
I have many products (work related that
vendors offers real time forums, the most
active have only a handful of post per
year: their product works as it should.
For example my IAR C compiler for Atmel AVR
micro-controller had 1 minor bug fix,
since I purchased it 1 year ago; AHP had
about 86 updates in less than a year:
it’s not something to be proud of but
ashamed of; not even products in Alpha
stage are this buggy.
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Losers are losers forever.
If tou have nothing good and positive to
contribute, crawl in a hole and kiss your
ass goodbye.
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Good one Richard. That really hurt.
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Richard you are a flaming idiot. So you
started out life as a loser and have not
changed? I guess when your only claim to
fame is profanity, keep it up Mr. Idiot!
ow pathetic a person you are.
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Randy,
You say my defense of X10 is misguided ? NOT
Mine works, albeit, I may have problems in
the future but for now it all seems to work
pretty darn well. As for the comment about
the "other mfg. not having open forums
because their stuff works"... ha.. Don't
think for a minute they have a closed forum
because their stuff works.. they have flaws
too (there are posts here to attest to that)
but they "obviously" do not want to hear
about competitors products on their forums.
O well, if your here and unhappy with your
product just get a refund. Maybe get a
replacement like I did. My diag unit works
pretty darn well. Good Luck to ya
Regards,
SteveRF
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Yes, I agree that this Forum is a great
thing, but lets look at this with open
eyes. This forum allows people to get
answers to problems from other users, which
puts less strain on there tech support
staff and subsequently need less bodies. I
agree that other Manuf's products have
problems but they are far less then X10's
products. Less problems less need for an
open Forum, and the other Manuf's provide
tech support that you can call and get
reliable answers.
Just my 2 cents.
T.
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I agree with Tcassio. I'll bet X10 counts
on it's users to identify or fix most of
it's problems. I fought with X10 problems
for many months, followed advice from
someone on the forum, bought a competitors
product, installed it and have had no
problems for three months now, zero. The
other product cost more but I think it's
fair value, it works, X10 CM+AHP does not.
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X1d&1
A mental midget it must be.
As to loser, my assets are in the millons,
I guess hat makes me aloser.
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Fred, Mathew
Mental midgets can't get things to work at
the best of times. X10 stuff works for me
and at a good price. Just because you are
minions of the competition does not give
you any credence no matter how bilious you
are.
Some of us have it and some of you never
will, SMARTS that is, suckers.
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Alright ladies and gentlemen let use this
post for its intent. The next update!
If you want to bicker create you own post
so X10 can delete it and I for one dont
have to waste time reading it!
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I am reminded of long road trips. . .
Are we there yet? Are we there yet?
Are we there yet?
T
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