X10 Community Forum

General Home Automation => Automating Your House => User Modified Devices => Topic started by: James S. on April 19, 2006, 04:05:37 PM

Title: DS7000 (PS561) & DS10A Used As A Fire Detector Alarm System !
Post by: James S. on April 19, 2006, 04:05:37 PM
The DS7000 has allowed me to use its many features to create a monitored home fire alarm system without having to pay monthly fees! This is how I did it.

I have smoke detectors that triggers a DS7000 (PS561) when smoke detected. I used a First Alert Smoke Detectors Model SA304 with internal light (available at Wal-Mart $15.00). I soldered two wires to the coil of a 5 vdc relay (relay available at Radio Shack $4.50) and soldered the other wire ends to the light wires on smoke detector. I was able to solder the wires from the relay coil to the smoke detector light leads by using a small flat screwdriver to slightly pry wires away from plastic divider and keep the smoke detector light operational. The smoke detector light should try to be saved as this also provides emergency lighting in event of fire. An X10 DS10A door/window sensor was then wired to the normally closed contacts of relay - I removed and discarded the magnetic switch from door/window sensor.

When t he smoke detector senses smoke and turns on it's light, it also opens the relay contacts and the X10 door/window sensor then triggers the DS7000. If DS7000 is not armed, it will chime , if DS7000 is armed, it will alarm and call cell phone numbers I've pre- programmed.

When the DS7000 calls me with an alert, I can trigger the DS7000 so that I can listen in on home with the DS7000 built-in microphone! Although I have not had any false alarms (knock on wood), this could be very helpful in determining if it could be a false alarm or a real alert. In which case I have neighbors that have said they will check my home for me if I'm not at home when notified of an alarm. The DS7000 can be programed with up to four phone numbers and will cycle through these numbers until it gets and answer. The DS7000 can also determined if it reached an answer machine and go to the next pre-programed phone number and call it. This is helpful if I lose cell phone signal connection, if my cell is tu rned off in a doctor's office, while attending religious services, or in a movie theater!! I always get permission first before adding someones phone number to the DS7000 call list.
 
I have one DS7000 that I use for security and another that I use for a fire alarm. Each has separate messages recorded - one for break in, one for fire. 

The DS7000 and the door/window sensor combination can be used for almost any in- home or away from home alert system that you can come up with, such as water level. I'm currently working on a third DS7000 system to use for a high and low temperature alert system. Great for a vacation home.

Should anyone like this mod and consider doing it, should be aware that the mod will most likely void the smoke detector warranty. You may be able to use clips on the connectors instead of soldering. I did this mod so that my DS7000 would call me in event of fire, overriding concerns about the smoke detector warranty. Anyone that rem embers the Florida fires a few years back and have pets can understand wanting to know what is going on in there home while away. In addition, I wanted to replace a smoke detector in my garage that could not be heard inside home. This mod also solved that problem. I now have four smoke detectors modified and reporting their status to the DS7000.

Some electrical knowledge was required to perform this modification, for instance, be able to solder and to read diagram on back of relay package for correct pins to use. 

This system has been operating successfully for over two years now with the only maintenance being the annual battery change.
 
I am not on here that often, so I may not respond to questions for some time.....
Title: Re: DS7000 incorporating Smoke/Fire Detectors
Post by: Tikka on August 21, 2006, 08:06:47 AM
Very interesting to read about your conversion !!
Does X-10 sell the Magnetic switches of the Door/Window sensors separately. I need to connect 3 to 4 switches to one sensor to limit the number of zones on the DS-7000.
Title: Re: DS7000 incorporating Smoke/Fire Detectors
Post by: steven r on August 21, 2006, 12:09:31 PM
I have smoke detectors that triggers a DS7000 when smoke/fire detected....
Does the DS7000 system have a way to distinguish the difference between a fire and a break in? i.e. When it goes off do you grab the gun or the hose?
Title: Re: DS7000 incorporating Smoke/Fire Detectors
Post by: AlarmSafe on August 31, 2006, 09:29:51 AM
 Hey James,
I would like to do this, can you send me a How to video? Please contact me soon, you can also send me an e-mail. ;D
Title: Re: DS7000 incorporating Smoke/Fire Detectors
Post by: TakeTheActive on August 31, 2006, 10:24:47 AM
I have smoke detectors that triggers a DS7000 when smoke/fire detected....
Does the DS7000 system have a way to distinguish the difference between a fire and a break in?

No. That's probably why:

I have one DS7000 that I use only for security and another that I use for a fire alarm. Each has separate messages recorded, one for break in, one for fire. 

;)
Title: Re: DS7000 incorporating Smoke/Fire Detectors
Post by: TakeTheActive on August 31, 2006, 10:27:03 AM
Does X-10 sell the Magnetic switches of the Door/Window sensors separately.

Standard item - try RadioShack or an online electronics site or a local alarm shop...
Title: Re: DS7000 incorporating Smoke/Fire Detectors
Post by: JMac on August 31, 2006, 12:09:51 PM
Hey James,
I would like to do this, can you send me a How to video? Please contact me soon, you can also send me an e-mail. ;D
   You don't need a video for this.  It's not a hard modification and I'm not an expert in the soldering world, but was able to make James S's idea work.  Just follow the schematic for the relay to see where to attach the sensor and smoke detector escape light wires.
                           
                                             Sensor *   *  (not used)



                               Smoke Detector  *   *                           * Sensor


Does this make any sense to you?  The symbol "*" depicts the pin location on the bottom of the Radio Shack relay.
Title: Re: DS7000 incorporating Smoke/Fire Detectors
Post by: AlarmSafe on August 31, 2006, 12:28:34 PM
THANKS!!!!! :D
Title: Re: DS7000 incorporating Smoke/Fire Detectors
Post by: AlarmSafe on September 12, 2006, 10:56:01 AM
Hey James,
Is it ok to use the First Alert SA302, SA303, or SA340 because walmart did not have the SA304 smoke detector. I have already bought the relay and soldered it to a x10 sensor and to an extra two wires. Let me know as soon as you can.

Andrew
Title: Re: DS7000 incorporating Smoke/Fire Detectors
Post by: James S. on September 26, 2006, 05:50:38 PM
Alarm Safe:   I'm not familiar with those smoke detectors.  If they have a light that turns on when smoke detected, you should be able to use them. Use a volt meter to confirm voltage available at light terminals on smoke detector when it is in alarm mode and match this voltage to relay voltage requirements.
When using two DS7000 systems, one for fire and the other for security, set each DS7000 on separate housecodes. You can then set up different lights (using X10 lamp modules or light switches) to come on when one or the other DS7000 goes into alarm mode. For example, have table lamps to light up for fire and ceiling lights to light up for break in. If you use only one DS7000 for both fire and security (not recommended), the only way you will know to grab a fire hose or a baseball bat is to listen for the sound that the smoke detector makes. This could be quite diffcult will DS7000 alarm sounding. Thats why I recommend using two DS7000. In addition, when away from home, each DS7000 will have a separate recording, one for fire, one for break in.    James S.
Title: Re: DS7000 incorporating Smoke/Fire Detectors
Post by: AlarmSafe on September 28, 2006, 07:40:34 AM
Thanks James S. your knowledge was very helpful.
Title: Re: DS7000 incorporating Smoke/Fire Detectors
Post by: tom j on October 02, 2006, 11:12:56 PM
Quote from James S April 18th 2006
I have one D7000 that I use only for security and another that I use for a fire alarm. Each has separate messages recorded, one for break in, one for fire. 

Well I think I have a better idea I have a talking smoke/gas detector so after you set it up as described and the unit calls you well when you listen in you could hear the detector saying fire, fire fire. I was just siting here working on another project when it came to me the microphone on the console is really excellent I was actually able to hear the thief's who were downstairs in my house when I had a break in so if it's reasonably close you shouldn't have any problem hearing it, thus eliminating the need for a second console. By the way I was able to contact the police and they didn't get a dime.  ;D Let me know what you think.

Tcj
Title: Re: DS7000 (PS561) & DS10A Used As A Fire Detector Alarm System !
Post by: steven r on September 20, 2007, 12:54:09 PM
...I used a First Alert Smoke Detectors Model SA304 with internal light (available at Wal-Mart $15.00). I soldered two wires to the coil of a 5 vdc relay (relay available at Radio Shack $4.50) and soldered the other wire ends to the light wires on smoke detector....
Clever approach. The First Alert Smoke Detector is most likely a more reliable sensor.

...I have one DS7000 that I use for security and another that I use for a fire alarm. Each has separate messages recorded - one for break in, one for fire....
You have to have 2 separate DS7000 alarms to have a unique fire alert? You mean the DS7000 doesn't distinguish between burglary and fire in it's alert? In the event of a fire it calls you and then you have to call the fire department? I hope you keep your phone on 24/7, have a spare battery and keep the fire department number in your phone contacts.

Personally I wouldn't be without a monitored system. I could have my phone turned off at a movie and come home to a burned down house.
Title: Re: DS7000 (PS561) & DS10A Used As A Fire Detector Alarm System !
Post by: TakeTheActive on September 21, 2007, 10:47:26 AM
You get a Helpful (and a Great Idea! Vote) from me for taking the time to write this novel idea up James S.

Thank you! :)
Title: Re: DS7000 (PS561) & DS10A Used As A Fire Detector Alarm System !
Post by: -Bill- (of wgjohns.com) on September 21, 2007, 09:55:21 PM
You get a Helpful (and a Great Idea! Vote) from me for taking the time to write this novel idea up James S.

Thank you! :)

I'll second that!
Title: Re: DS7000 (PS561) & DS10A Used As A Fire Detector Alarm System !
Post by: Puck on September 21, 2007, 10:44:42 PM
You get a Helpful (and a Great Idea! Vote) from me for taking the time to write this novel idea up James S.

Thank you! :)

I'll second that!

Make that 3!

It's nice to read posts about different ways that others are using some basic modules. I like the DS10A because it is so easy to interface. And now with AHP and OnAlert, it has become much more versatile.

Thanks for sharing this.
Title: Re: DS7000 (PS561) & DS10A Used As A Fire Detector Alarm System !
Post by: James S. on September 26, 2007, 02:46:27 PM
I would be interested in knowing what results others are having that have tried my DS7000 modification. I would also be interested in variations and/or changes that anyone has tried and the results they are achieving. I've always believed that any project can be improved and that there is always a better mouse trap waiting to be built. My thanks to those that took the time to leave positive replies on this modification.  ;D James S.
Title: Re: DS7000 (PS561) & DS10A Used As A Fire Detector Alarm System !
Post by: JMac on September 26, 2007, 05:05:50 PM
I also did your modification with good results.  The test has always been successful and no false warnings.  Have you done a mod to a CO detector ?  That would be neat also.........
Title: Re: DS7000 (PS561) & DS10A Used As A Fire Detector Alarm System !
Post by: Tuicemen on September 26, 2007, 05:41:40 PM
Excellent Idea!
But as steven r pointed out
Quote from: steven r
i.e. When it goes off do you grab the gun or the hose?
When your home and  a DS7000 goes off can you distinguish which one is tripped! ???
I realize the smoke detector should be sounding as well but can you hear it over the DS700?  ???
Quote from: James S
I would also be interested in variations and/or changes that anyone has tried and the results they are achieving. I've always believed that any project can be improved and that there is always a better mouse trap waiting to be built. My thanks to those that took the time to leave positive replies on this modification.   James S.
Two DS7000s  ???  I don't think are really needed!
A Variation: One DS7000
 You could have a standard message like:
 " An Alarm condition has occurred at (resident name), Press zero to silence the alarm and listen in"
Listening in you'd hear the smoke detector/s if a fire no detector if it was a break in! ;)
Or if you had OnAlert you could have a sound file playing for each sensor that trips giving you even more information as to exactly what caused the alarm condition! ;)(provided you could hear your PC, but thats a simple fix)
Title: Re: DS7000 (PS561) & DS10A Used As A Fire Detector Alarm System !
Post by: Puck on September 26, 2007, 06:22:26 PM
Or if you had OnAlert you could have a sound file playing for each sensor that trips giving you even more information as to exactly what caused the alarm condition! ;)(provided you could hear your PC, but thats a simple fix)

I use OnAlerts ability (along with AHP / MyHouse) to send my cell phone an email of what sensor got triggered... including my Smoke & CO Detectors. The one nice thing about using AHP with it as well is the extras you can do:

Of course as steven r, stated... a monitored system is the best choice; but these additional systems are value added (not to mention fun!).
Title: Re: DS7000 (PS561) & DS10A Used As A Fire Detector Alarm System !
Post by: James S. on September 28, 2007, 02:47:32 AM
JMac: I haven't tried to modify a CO detector. If you are successful at the CO mod,  I would be interested in the results you have. Thanks for all the suggestions, they are all good points to consider for what each individual wants from their alarm system.  As far as grabbing a hose or a gun, I have each DS7000 turn on different lights so as to know if its a fire alarm or a break in alarm. When away from home, each DS7000 has its own separate message recorded, one has message fire alarm activated, the other message is break in alarm activated. When at home I'm also able to tell the difference between the two DS7000 systems as they are located in difference locations and there is a slight difference in how each DS7000 sounds. In addition, I have a X10 siren (often referred to as the noisy cricket) activated by the break in DS7000, but not on the fire alarm DS7000.
I prefer to use two DS7000, one for security/break in and a separate one for fire/smoke alarm. I had previously mention that I also have a fire/smoke detector in the garage that could not be heard from inside the house.  While at home this DS7000 fire/smoke mod now allows me to know if that detector is activated. If DS7000 is not armed, it will chime. If DS7000 is armed, if will alarm and turn on light for that detector on the DS7000 console. When I'm away from home and should this DS7000 fire/smoke alarm be activated, it will call the pre-programed phone numbers. If I select to listen in on noise inside home, I can not hear if the garage fire/smoke detector has activated. So far this has not happen. If I ever do get a fire alarm when I'm away from home and I can't hear any noise while listening in on the DS7000, then I will call my neighbors until I reach one that can do a visual check on my home. In the unlikely event I could nor reach a neighbor , then I would request the local police to check on it. They (police) are really good on doing things like that here in north Florida.
Title: Re: DS7000 (PS561) & DS10A Used As A Fire Detector Alarm System !
Post by: * Cor * on November 27, 2007, 09:29:56 AM
James S Thanks for the Idea been thinking of how to interface the smokes in the house. Being a newbie I will print it and use it in the future. Still thinking of  putting it into AH-Pro with the phone alert and BVC program.
Just got to go a little at a time due to money and time limitations. I think most have the same problem. Thanks again for the Idea you get a helpful. :)
Cory
Title: Re: DS7000 (PS561) & DS10A Used As A Fire Detector Alarm System !
Post by: misterbeefy on August 10, 2009, 05:56:49 AM
Great post! Indeed worthy of a helpful :)
I couldn't help but think while reading the responses, particularly about how to tell the difference between smoke and a burglary, that this would be a perfect candidate for PCCompanion or BVC! You could create a batch file to play a certain sound clip for each type of event, or have a macro fire that would have BVC TELL you what's going on.

Just my 2 cents. Thanks for the post! #:)
Title: Re: DS7000 (PS561) & DS10A Used As A Fire Detector Alarm System !
Post by: HA Dave on August 10, 2009, 10:40:48 AM
I couldn't help but think while reading the responses, particularly about how to tell the difference between smoke and a burglary, that this would be a perfect candidate for PCCompanion or BVC!

I used a DS10A with OnAlert and BVC (http://www.wgjohns.com/bvc.htm) when I created my Automated Chair (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZEx3oP6rO0). Those DS10A sensors mixed with OnAlert can detect almost anything: smoke alarm, water sensor, sump pump, mailbox, recliner, maybe even "locked drawer opening (?)".

Bill added a feature in the latest version of BVC (http://www.wgjohns.com/bvc.htm) that detects the "all lights on all units off" of the DS7000. I use that to make my Kate (the kate 16 bit voice) holler when the alarm is sounded.

You (at least theoretically) can use OnAlert [and AHP] to send your cell phone a different "specialized" email message for each DS10A in use. As well as have BVC (http://www.wgjohns.com/bvc.htm) announce a specific message for each sensor.
Title: Re: DS7000 (PS561) & DS10A Used As A Fire Detector Alarm System !
Post by: misterbeefy on August 11, 2009, 08:25:33 PM

I used a DS10A with OnAlert and BVC (http://www.wgjohns.com/bvc.htm) when I created my Automated Chair (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZEx3oP6rO0).

Leave it to you Dave, to have an automated chair!!!! LOL! I LOVE IT MAN! I had a similar idea for BVC with the timers, but man, I LOVE the way you incorporated the recliner being open! I hadn't thought of that and it's AWESOME!  >!
Title: Re: DS7000 (PS561) & DS10A Used As A Fire Detector Alarm System !
Post by: HA Dave on August 11, 2009, 08:47:56 PM
Leave it to you Dave, to have an automated chair...

I can't take the credit. The concept was from steven r... the idea came up when joking around in the Home Automation Chat Room (http://bdshost.com/ac/). Being retired... it was merely my job to get on YouTube.

But it does demonstrate just how useful those DS10A's can be!
Title: Re: DS7000 (PS561) & DS10A Used As A Fire Detector Alarm System !
Post by: steven r on August 11, 2009, 09:03:37 PM
...I can't take the credit. The concept was from steven r...
Maybe I should think of some more odd applications for you to try.  ;D
Title: Re: DS7000 (PS561) & DS10A Used As A Fire Detector Alarm System !
Post by: HA Dave on August 11, 2009, 09:21:34 PM
Maybe I should think of some more odd applications for you to try.  ;D

ODD? Whats odd about a chair?
Title: Re: DS7000 (PS561) & DS10A Used As A Fire Detector Alarm System !
Post by: tennisguy9999 on March 17, 2010, 04:17:10 PM
this was a great idea. i have implemented it for my home and i am very satisfied with the result.

Thanks for the great write up and recommendation
Lisle #:)
Title: Re: DS7000 (PS561) & DS10A Used As A Fire Detector Alarm System !
Post by: localuser on June 12, 2012, 04:52:19 PM
you could also just use a Fire or CO relay module isntead of going through all the effort of hacking a device.  You could have to come up your your own powersupply, which could be shared with the DS10 as well as a functional case, but it might be an easier and more direct approach.  A quick search comes up several different vendors that sell such modules.  Here is the first link i came across.


http://www.detectorsandalarms.com/relay-modules.aspx