X10 Community Forum
🔌General Home Automation => Automating Your House => Topic started by: Galileo2000 on January 19, 2008, 09:34:26 PM
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Good Saturday Evening All,
Long time reader, first time poster.
Excellent site, lot of useful info.
I succesfully employ x10 in my house, all rooms have lighting control thru IR-543, RR501, TM 751, wall switches etc.
However, I have a problem.
My outdoor lights are controlled with the mechanical toggle switch inside CFGI box. In order to operate it NEEDS to be a toggle ($1) switch.
Old house and no neutral.
I want to incorporate x10 into this equation, so I can turn on outdoor lights from inside sending x10 command. On the other hand, I'd like to keep the mechanical switch functional as well.
I am pulling my hair trying to find a soulution.
There are couple of x10 toggle switches (Insteon x10-compatible I believe), but they all require a neutral which I don't have.
Googled forum and Web for many hours. No light in the end of the tunnel :(
Some sort of inline module maybe?
Help please, much appreciated.
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An X-10 wall switch (WS467) could do what you want, it does not require a neutral, but I'm not sure what mounting it in a CFGI box would do. It would replace the toggle switch as far as function.
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Dan,
The problem with WS467 as well as other available X10 switches (WS12A etc.) is they don't have that "regular" On/Off "long" button which goes into the CFGI box from the inside in order to operate the switch manually from the outside. Otherwise it would be really easy.
Thanks anyway.
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My outdoor lights are controlled with the mechanical toggle switch inside CFGI box. In order to operate it NEEDS to be a toggle ($1) switch............ I want to incorporate x10 into this equation, so I can turn on outdoor lights from inside sending x10 command.
What are these "outdoor lights"?
I recently read that SocketRockets can be used indoors or OUT. But I like X10's floodlights so much... it was worth some re-wiring to install them. To make one floodlight easy to install, the old fashion toggle switch is NOT handy. However, since I haven't used the manual switch since installation day... that hasn't been a problem.
I also use the Black&Decker weather-proof plug-in modules (still available at smarthome.com). And have considered the 2-pin appliance module modification... to make it a wired-in module. The mod... as I remember.. was just replacing the "plug" parts with wire leads and sealing the case.
I should also mention.. that for both security and decorative purposes... I use the low-voltage landscape lawnlamps.
Of course... NONE of what I've done has given me any dimming abilities with my outside lighting.
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Dave; I actually found some B&D Modules including the outdoor ones at a local overstock store. Any type $5.00 ea. ;D
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My outdoor lights are controlled with the mechanical toggle switch inside CFGI box. In order to operate it NEEDS to be a toggle ($1) switch.
I have no idea what a "switch inside CFGI box" is. When I tried to Google variations on "CFGI", Google had nothing but typo variants of CFCI which I don't think is what Galileo2000 is refering to. Can someone give me a better description so I can research it and see what it looks like.
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I'm with oldtimer on this! ??? ::) ???
Perhaps Galileo2000 can post a pic of this box! ;)
The only thing I can find is a GFCI Load Center (http://www.spaguts.com/Product.aspx?ID=27&gclid=COahyoCqhZECFQ66PAodJFNZHw)
As I've always stated a Pic is worth a thousand words! ;) In this case lots of answers! ;) :D ;D
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Guys,
Thank you for trying to help.
Dave:
"Outside lights" are two lanterns with 3 bulds each, so SocketRockets are out of the question.
Oldtimer and Tuicemen:
Obviously I meant something like GFI/GFCI (note to myself: don't use abbs I don't understand).
Picture is below. As you can see, the switch from the outside requires "regular" toggle switch to operate.
(http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/1714/switchui0.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
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...Picture is below. As you can see, the switch from the outside requires "regular" toggle switch to operate.
(http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/1714/switchui0.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
Just to clarify, as least for me anyway, does this outside plate mechanically switch a regular switch under it?
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...Picture is below. As you can see, the switch from the outside requires "regular" toggle switch to operate.
(http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/1714/switchui0.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
Just to clarify, as least for me anyway, does this outside plate mechanically switch a regular switch under it?
It does exactly this.
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If you say there is no neutral in the box under this waterproof mechanical switch adapter then I have to assume that there are just two wires to this box from another box somewhere else that has both hot and neutral in it. If that is the case then any 2 wire X10 3 way module could be put where the other box is located and the two wires you have running to your mechanical switch box would be used for an "X10" companion switch. In your case the "companion" switch wouldn't be made by X10 but would be any waterproof momentary action, make when pushed, button with a waterproof plate that would replace your mechanical switch plate. I believe such buttons are readily available and in this case don't have to carry any current to speak of.
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If you say there is no neutral in the box under this waterproof mechanical switch adapter then I have to assume that there are just two wires to this box from another box somewhere else that has both hot and neutral in it. If that is the case then any 2 wire X10 module could be put where the other box is located and the two wires you have running to your mechanical switch box would be used for an "X10" companion switch. In your case the "companion" switch wouldn't be made by X10 but would be any waterproof momentary action, make when pushed, button with a waterproof plate that would replace your mechanical switch plate. I believe such buttons are readily available and in this case don't have to carry any current to speak of.
Well, I could not find any waterproof plates with the pushbuttons either. If something like that exists, then it would be easy. Replace "regular" toggle switch with WS467, replace front metal cover with the pushbutton weatherproof cover - done!
Links to the above mentioned weatherproof/pushbutton covers would be great.
Thanks.
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...then I have to assume that there are just two wires to this box from another box somewhere else...
Hmm... I didn't read into Galileo2000 description that there was another switch that controlled the lights. Also his plate is labeled with an ON and an OFF which would make me think it is not a 3-way setup.
Galileo2000: Is there more than one switch that controls the same light?
Well, I could not find any waterproof plates with the pushbuttons either. If something like that exists, then it would be easy. Replace "regular" toggle switch with WS467, replace front metal cover with the pushbutton weatherproof cover - done!...
That should work for a single switch application if you find them.
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try a togglelinc from smarthome.
http://www.smarthome.com/2466dw.html
x10 compatible
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Well, I could not find any waterproof plates with the pushbuttons either. If something like that exists, then it would be easy. Replace "regular" toggle switch with WS467, replace front metal cover with the pushbutton weatherproof cover - done!
I couldn't either in the few minutes I just had available but try this link.
http://www.go2marine.com/product.do?no=16528F&WT.mc_id=gb1
It's a marine product that should work in this application. You'd drill a hole in a blank waterproof plate to mount it and install it with pipe joint compound or silicone sealer around the inside of the gap between the plate and the switch to keep out moisture. Note that you'll need both the pushbutton switch and the waterproof pushbutton cover.
What I was visualizing when I wrote my post was an industrial product that may not be cataloged by Google.
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...What I was visualizing when I wrote my post was an industrial product that may not be cataloged by Google.
You mean there is something that Google doesn't know about. ;)
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try a togglelinc from smarthome.
http://www.smarthome.com/2466dw.html...
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think that switch requires a neutral wire.
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steven r
i am the one who needs to be corrected. sometimes i forget that not everyone has the white wire. i should have reveiwed the post more thoroughly.
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Maybe one of these switch covers with a standard X10 switch could work for you. You would need to flip the cover open to push the button. Both are designed for wet environments. I like the 1st cover best as it is self closing and U.L. listed for wet locations with cover closed.
http://electrical.hardwarestore.com/14-50-weatherproof-covers/1-gang-receptacle-or-toggle-switch-cover--642819.aspx
http://electrical.hardwarestore.com/14-50-weatherproof-covers/single-gang-weatherproof-switch-cover-602103.aspx
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Maybe one of these switch covers with a standard X10 switch could work for you. You would need to flip the cover open to push the button. Both are designed for wet environments. I like the 1st cover best as it is self closing and U.L. listed for wet locations with cover closed.
http://electrical.hardwarestore.com/14-50-weatherproof-covers/1-gang-receptacle-or-toggle-switch-cover--642819.aspx
http://electrical.hardwarestore.com/14-50-weatherproof-covers/single-gang-weatherproof-switch-cover-602103.aspx
Thank you Steven.
Looks like I'll use one of those or just forget about the whole thing altogether.
I can't believe x10 and simple toggle switch would be such a huge problem.
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You could install the XPDF? That would give you X10 in-line control of the lights, however I believe you wanted to retain local control so I don't know that the XPDF would be the perfect solution. It would definitely eliminate the weather element since it could be installed anywhere along the wire run, even inside the house as long as you left the outdoor control on.
The more I think about it, if you you really want to maintain local control I would find a weather proof box and install a wall switch like the 2384 http://www.smarthome.com/2384i2.html that does not require a neutral wire to be present. I just checked smarthome.com and see that they do not have the 2384 in stock. I have used this switch and is a great switch and definitely would recommend to anyone who needs to do a quick install without a neutral wire present. You may be able to locate one on eBay or another home automation website.