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🖥️ActiveHome Pro => ActiveHome Pro General => Topic started by: Rockhoppers on January 24, 2008, 08:51:29 AM

Title: LM15U Rocket Socket Code setting - Help
Post by: Rockhoppers on January 24, 2008, 08:51:29 AM
How do you set the code on a LM15U with a CM15A

Any ideas.....?

Andrew
Title: Re: LM15U Rocket Socket Code setting - Help
Post by: Brian H on January 24, 2008, 12:13:49 PM
Some have found setting up a dummy chime module in AHP screen with the address wanted.
Then power up the LM15 and activate the chime module 3 times within 30 seconds of power up.
You could use a table lamp next to the CM15A to make it easier and then put the LM15 where you want to install it.
Title: Re: LM15U Rocket Socket Code setting - Help
Post by: JimC on January 24, 2008, 12:25:24 PM
I have used the method Brian describes and have found it to work flawlessly. Just make sure that the socket rocket is in a lamp plugged into the same outlet as the CM15A.
Title: Re: LM15U Rocket Socket Code setting - Help
Post by: Rockhoppers on January 24, 2008, 12:25:59 PM
gave that a try, not made any difference !

any other suggestions ?

Andrew
Title: Re: LM15U Rocket Socket Code setting - Help
Post by: JimC on January 24, 2008, 12:32:53 PM
This is probably stating the obvious but did you make sure that the lamp was turned on? :) I always check first without the socket rocket.
Title: Re: LM15U Rocket Socket Code setting - Help
Post by: Rockhoppers on January 24, 2008, 12:34:42 PM
LOL.... yup i did check to obvious !

Twice to be exact !

Andrew
Title: Re: LM15U Rocket Socket Code setting - Help
Post by: JimC on January 24, 2008, 12:37:00 PM
The default code for the socket rocket should be A1. are you able to turn it on and off using this code and AHP?

Jim
Title: Re: LM15U Rocket Socket Code setting - Help
Post by: Rockhoppers on January 24, 2008, 02:00:59 PM
No joy with that i am afraid.....

To throw a spanner in the works, it was a second hand unit of E-bay ! But no reason to assume it does not work, the seller has confirmed it worked fine, maybe i will try and ask him what code he had it set to.

Andrew
Title: Re: LM15U Rocket Socket Code setting - Help
Post by: Brian H on January 24, 2008, 02:10:07 PM
When you first apply power is it Off?
If it is stuck On it is bad.
Title: Re: LM15U Rocket Socket Code setting - Help
Post by: Rockhoppers on January 24, 2008, 02:13:45 PM
It is on !

When i put power to it, the light shines, but won't go off !

Bad Unit ?

Andrew
Title: Re: LM15U Rocket Socket Code setting - Help
Post by: Rockhoppers on January 24, 2008, 02:20:59 PM
Here is another curve ball...

I have CM15A plugged into a 240V to 120V transformer, as i can't get a 240V CM15A yet....and i live in the UK.

All the wireless units, (Motion Detectors and key fobs) work just fine. but not had great sucsess getting any hard wired units to work !

Is the transformer an issue ?

Andrew
Title: Re: LM15U Rocket Socket Code setting - Help
Post by: caudill22 on January 25, 2008, 03:56:19 PM
I would suspect that the socket rocket is bad because the default operation is off. When initially screwed into the lamp the socket rocket must receive an on command to activate, it remains off until it receives the on command. Is the lamp on a 240V circuit? I wonder if that might have something to do with it??? Either way it should not come on when you screw it in the lamp until the on command is sent. You either have a bad socket rocket or if it is on a 240V circuit that may also be the explanation. Maybe someone else on here has experience using the socket rocket on a 240???
Title: Re: LM15U Rocket Socket Code setting - Help
Post by: Brian H on January 25, 2008, 04:20:11 PM
I believe the LM15U is 240 Volt. LM15A is Americas and 120 Volt.
Title: Re: LM15U Rocket Socket Code setting - Help
Post by: Rockhoppers on January 25, 2008, 04:26:07 PM
Yup, it is all on a 240V circuit !

The Rocket Socket is a 240V on, it is just the CM15A that is a 120V running on a transformer at 240V

Andrew
Title: Re: LM15U Rocket Socket Code setting - Help
Post by: Charles Sullivan on January 25, 2008, 05:29:40 PM
Yup, it is all on a 240V circuit !

The Rocket Socket is a 240V on, it is just the CM15A that is a 120V running on a transformer at 240V

Andrew

The usual problem is that the X10 signal cannot get past the transformer back to the power line.  What can be done is connect a capacitor with the  appropriate rating between the primary and secondary hot leads of the transformer to act as a signal bridge.  However these are potentially lethal voltages so you've got to be very careful that your wiring does not represent an electrocution or fire hazard.

Title: Re: LM15U Rocket Socket Code setting - Help
Post by: Rockhoppers on January 25, 2008, 06:07:13 PM
Charles, thanks for that, do you have any more info on the rating of the Capacitor...and any other instructions

I have a good friend who is into all that stuff and could do it for me if i can tell him what needs to be done...

Take it X10 must do this themselves when they make a unit for the 240V market......?

Cheers

Andrew

Title: Re: LM15U Rocket Socket Code setting - Help
Post by: Charles Sullivan on January 25, 2008, 07:25:34 PM
Charles, thanks for that, do you have any more info on the rating of the Capacitor...and any other instructions

I have a good friend who is into all that stuff and could do it for me if i can tell him what needs to be done...

Take it X10 must do this themselves when they make a unit for the 240V market......?

Cheers

Andrew


You want a 0.1 microfarad "Class X2" cap - these are designed to open circuit if they fail.

Here's one that's used by many folks as a signal bridge for split-phase AC in the USA:
   http://www.panasonic.com/industrial/components/pdf/abd0000ce29.pdf

The voltage across the cap will be the difference between the primary and secondary transformer voltages, or 240-120 = 120 V,
so the 250 VAC rating is sufficient.

Make sure your "transformer" is really a true transformer and not some switch-mode solid state gizmo.  The 30-50 Watt "Travel Voltage Adapters" you see are usually autotransformers, which are fine for this application.  (Just don't. plug in a big light bulb or anything like that.)   If you can open the transformer housing and there's enough room inside for the cap, you eliminate the hazard of outside wires which could be kicked loose and short out to something.  Temperature shouldn't be a problem as interfaces like a CM15A or a TM751 Transceiver draw only a few Watts.

X-10 modules usually don't have a transformer power supply, just a capacitive voltage divider.  They change a few component values for 240 V operation.

Title: Re: LM15U Rocket Socket Code setting - Help
Post by: Rockhoppers on January 26, 2008, 05:51:59 AM
Thanks Charles

Do i need just the one cap or do i need to put one on each phase, both live and neutral, or just the one of them.

OR

Is there a certain type of transformer that i should look for that does not cause these probelms.

Thanks again

Andrew
Title: Re: LM15U Rocket Socket Code setting - Help
Post by: Charles Sullivan on January 26, 2008, 01:15:03 PM
Thanks Charles

Do i need just the one cap or do i need to put one on each phase, both live and neutral, or just the one of them.

OR

Is there a certain type of transformer that i should look for that does not cause these probelms.

Thanks again

Andrew

Before I answer, let me ask what kind of transformer you have now.   Is it a commercial adapter with a plug for your UK mains and a built-in (or plug-in adapter) North American socket for the CM15A?  Or something you wired up yourself?  What is the Wattage or Current rating?  If it's a commercial adapter, can the information about it be found on the Web?

And do you (or your friend) have a multimeter which can measure AC voltage?

(I don't want to give you erroneous information which could lead to a hazard.)

Title: Re: LM15U Rocket Socket Code setting - Help
Post by: Rockhoppers on January 26, 2008, 01:33:37 PM
Does this help ?

http://www.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?ITAG=SPEC&ModuleNo=19413&doy=26m1#spec

Andrew
Title: Re: LM15U Rocket Socket Code setting - Help
Post by: Charles Sullivan on January 26, 2008, 02:00:29 PM
Does this help ?

http://www.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?ITAG=SPEC&ModuleNo=19413&doy=26m1#spec

Andrew

Yes.  This is _most likely_ an autotransformer (which would be good).   From the weight, does it feel like it has a hunk of iron inside (as opposed to just a PC board)?

Now comes the tricky part - can you open the enclosure?  (Many of these require a special screwdriver or are permanently sealed.)

Title: Re: LM15U Rocket Socket Code setting - Help
Post by: Rockhoppers on January 26, 2008, 03:45:01 PM
It is heavy, and has a big chunk iron in it i assume.....

Can get it open if i have to, not tried it yet.... but it has four casing screws.

Andrew
Title: Re: LM15U Rocket Socket Code setting - Help
Post by: Charles Sullivan on January 26, 2008, 04:40:02 PM
It is heavy, and has a big chunk iron in it i assume.....

Can get it open if i have to, not tried it yet.... but it has four casing screws.

Andrew

Looking good so far.   If this is an autotransformer (and _probably_ even it's a dual winding transformer), there ought to be a common connection between the UK mains plug neutral and the USA socket neutral.   The USA neutral is the longer of the two blade slots - the one on the left when looking at it so you can read the manufacturer's name on the front.  Don't confuse this with the Ground, which is the round hole in the USA socket and which will invariably be connected to the Ground on the UK plug.

You'll need to determine if there's enough room inside the housing for the capacitor without it being squeezed against something else.

If the neutrals are common and the capacitor will fit inside, then you'll connect the capacitor between the USA socket hot (the shorter of the two blade slots) and the UK plug hot.  Make absolutely sure that there's no bare wire which could short against the transformer iron or other wires if the capacitor should rattle around when the adapter is jostled.  (Remember that the adhesive on a lot of plastic tape may  tend to dry out and come loose after a while.)

Let us know how this works out.   If satisfactory, there are undoubtedly others in the UK who would appreciate step-by-step instructions and sources of supply for the parts you used.

Title: Re: LM15U Rocket Socket Code setting - Help
Post by: Rockhoppers on January 27, 2008, 11:35:51 AM
Right, got this thing open and it has two wires from the L and N on the UK side going to a wound core in the middle of a large block of iron, it then has two wires comming from the other side of the wound core going out to the USA side, there does not appear to be a common wire.

Should the Cap still bridge the UK to USA live side ?

Mmmmm ?

Andrew
Title: Re: LM15U Rocket Socket Code setting - Help
Post by: Charles Sullivan on January 27, 2008, 08:49:40 PM
Right, got this thing open and it has two wires from the L and N on the UK side going to a wound core in the middle of a large block of iron, it then has two wires comming from the other side of the wound core going out to the USA side, there does not appear to be a common wire.

Should the Cap still bridge the UK to USA live side ?

Mmmmm ?

Andrew

You'll need to check continuity between the primary and secondary windings with a multimeter.  It's still possible this is an autotransformer and the same common wire is brought out twice for manufacturing considerations.  If the resistance between the UK neutral and the USA neutral is in the Megohm range or higher, then it's instead a dual-winding transformer and you might need two capacitors, one between the two lives and another between the two neutrals.

Title: Re: LM15U Rocket Socket Code setting - Help
Post by: Rockhoppers on January 28, 2008, 10:48:26 AM
Ok, let me see if i can get this across to you in words that make sence.

There is continuity between the US Neutral and the UK Neutral,  tested using the multi meter continuity tester.

There is nothing on the Live side, however I get a reading of 200 ohms across UK live to US live, and 70 across US live to US neutral !

There is also a reading of 76 US Neutral to UK Neutral

does any of that make sence ?

Andrew

PS i have two caps anyway !
Title: Re: LM15U Rocket Socket Code setting - Help
Post by: Charles Sullivan on January 28, 2008, 11:28:38 AM
Ok, let me see if i can get this across to you in words that make sence.

There is continuity between the US Neutral and the UK Neutral,  tested using the multi meter continuity tester.

There is nothing on the Live side, however I get a reading of 200 ohms across UK live to US live, and 70 across US live to US neutral !

There is also a reading of 76 US Neutral to UK Neutral

does any of that make sence ?

Andrew

PS i have two caps anyway !


If when you say "There is nothing on the live side..." you mean an open circuit between the UK Live and UK Neutral,  that doesn't make sense in line with your other readings.  But the fact that you do have continuity between the two neutrals probably means you can get by with one capacitor between the US Live and the UK Live.

Can you can _safely_ connect the capacitor with clip leads and try it out with the CM15A while the adapter is disassembled?

(If the adapter is reassembled without modification, the live on the US plug can usually be accessed for testing by not inserting the plug all the way into the socket, but I don't know if that's possible with the standard UK plug and socket.)


Title: Re: LM15U Rocket Socket Code setting - Help
Post by: Rockhoppers on January 28, 2008, 01:05:31 PM
Ok, have istalled one of the Cap's and have not found there to be any difference.

Still can't talk to and wired components

Should i instal the other cap too ?

Andrew
Title: Re: LM15U Rocket Socket Code setting - Help
Post by: Charles Sullivan on January 29, 2008, 04:30:17 AM
Ok, have istalled one of the Cap's and have not found there to be any difference.

Still can't talk to and wired components

Should i instal the other cap too ?

Andrew

Yes.  It won't hurt and can only help.

BTW, did you check the voltage between the US Live and UK Live?  It should be no more than 120 VAC.

[Edited]  Scratch all the above.   Do you have any other US modules besides the CM15A?  We should really first verify that X10 signals will control another US module connected on the US side of the transformer.  A US appliance module would be ideal for this because you could hear the relay click without having anything plugged into it.

Title: Re: LM15U Rocket Socket Code setting - Help
Post by: Rockhoppers on January 29, 2008, 06:54:11 AM
 ;D

It works, you are a genius !

Many thanks !

Just need to set the code on the LM15U away from A1 which it is set to now.

Andrew
Title: Re: LM15U Rocket Socket Code setting - Help
Post by: Charles Sullivan on January 29, 2008, 01:52:26 PM
;D

It works, you are a genius !

Many thanks !

Just need to set the code on the LM15U away from A1 which it is set to now.

Andrew


In view of my edited message, was it adding the second capacitor which made the difference?  I'm still scratching my head a little about the wiring of the transformer in that adapter.

Title: Re: LM15U Rocket Socket Code setting - Help
Post by: Rockhoppers on January 29, 2008, 03:11:26 PM
i had nothing with only one cap, the minuite i put the second one on it started working just fine.

No idea about the wiring....just two in's and two out's..... thats it

Andrew