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🔌General Home Automation => Automating Your House => User Modified Devices => Topic started by: Knightrider on March 09, 2008, 09:45:24 PM

Title: Knightrider's Smoke Detector Modification Part1
Post by: Knightrider on March 09, 2008, 09:45:24 PM

Ok, for those of you at the forums that can't wait for the video of this mod to come out, here it is.  This is by no means perfect, but it works for the time being.
Before I delve into this, let me state that these should only be used as an EXTRA line of smoke detectors, and should by no means be used as a replacement system for what you already SHOULD have in your homes. 
DO NOT RELY ON THESE THINGS TO SAVE YOU FROM A FIRE!
Now, on to the project.
I was looking for a way to tie my smoke alarms into my x10 system so that i could trigger macros to turn off all appliances, turn on all lights, flash a post light out by the road, email pics to me, call me somewhere and the like.  I have a detached garage, and an alarm from there should trigger something in the house as well.
I started out with the following:

1) a Fire Sentry model 0914 Smoke Detector (2 for $6 at the Big Box Store)
2) a Powerflash Module
3) a UM506 module

I later decided that a cat 5 jack would streamline the modification and that an external power source would be beneficial.

This takes about 30 minutes per alarm.


Here's how to do it.
1) Remove the battery, and open up the detector.
2) Attach two wires across the RED and BLACK wires of the piezo element (this will later be connected to the powerflash)
3) Attach two wires across the leads of the test button (connection to the um506)
         Note that I did this on the back side of the board to eliminate interference with the test button when re-assembled.
4) As an option, I also connected a third pair of wires to the battery input.
5) Once these connections are made, I place dabs of hot-melt glue to the wires as an insulation to prevent shorts in the board.
6) Run the three pairs of wires out through the back of the unit (I ran mine into the battery compartment) and put the detector
     back together.

The next steps are optional.

7) I picked up a female cat 5 plug for about 50 cents and mounted it into the battery compartment by cutting a hole in the side of
     the detector.  This was hot-glued in.

8) The wires from the inside of the detector are hooked to the female plug (three line telephone plug works too)

9) I next connect the plug output to a)the powerflash  b) the um506  c) an external power source (battery and 120).
      Depending on the final location of the alarm,  I either run a cat 5 wire through the ceiling to a nearby closet, or just down the
      wall.

10) Now that the connections are made,  I set the powerflash (set to sense current and continuous on) to it's own code (per
         alarm) and the UM506 to a code I have set in AHP to trip all alarms.

11) In AHP i have a macro set up so that when a single detector goes off, the UM 506's all activate, this trips all the other alarms.

You can kind of get the idea from there. 

Note that not all alarms will hook up the same -- this is just one example. 

I wouldn't recommend long wire runs from the units, either.  I chose to power mine from a house voltage/ battery source for the obvious reasons.
It should also be noted that when one alarm does trip,  it's a real pain to get the system back to normal.  This is due to the massive amount of macro events that occur.  (I use a combination of AHP and X10 Dispatcher to handle the macros)   I don't mind the trouble in resetting the system, because I'm paranoid about having ANOTHER house fire.
Also, in the future, I might make this work with the DS10A, but for now, the powerflash suits my needs.
Any questions will be gladly answered either here, or at www.bdshost.com/ac

Title: Re: Knightrider's Smoke Detector Modification Part1
Post by: HA Dave on March 09, 2008, 09:58:10 PM

VERY IMPRESSIVE... and Helpful! Thank-You for sharing this Knightrider.

Title: Re: Knightrider's Smoke Detector Modification Part1
Post by: KDR on March 10, 2008, 05:48:07 AM

Nice job Knightrider

Good detail and pictures make this Helpful.

_{(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)}^---_{(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)}^---_{(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)}^---_{(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)}^---_{(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)}^----KDR

Title: Re: Knightrider's Smoke Detector Modification Part1
Post by: Brian H on March 10, 2008, 06:42:11 AM

Great project. Helpful from me also.

Title: Re: Knightrider's Smoke Detector Modification Part1
Post by: Puck on March 10, 2008, 08:47:56 AM

Thanks for sharing... new ways of integrating household safety into our automation system is always helpful.

Title: Re: Knightrider's Smoke Detector Modification Part1
Post by: JMac on March 10, 2008, 10:42:24 AM

This mod (plus that of James S) really help with home monitoring.  Thanks.........

Title: Re: Knightrider's Smoke Detector Modification Part1
Post by: Tuicemen on March 10, 2008, 04:06:28 PM

Knightrider Great mod, and nice write up!
With X10 looking for new ideas I'm surprised they haven't offered something like this! ::) ;) :D
Definitely worth every helpful rating you have plus!  ;)
**I look forward to reading Part 2.**  ;)

Title: Re: Knightrider's Smoke Detector Modification Part1
Post by: s0urc3f0ur on March 10, 2008, 06:22:32 PM

Awesome! I am jumping on the helpful bandwaggon!

Title: Re: Knightrider's Smoke Detector Modification Part1
Post by: -Bill- (of wgjohns.com) on March 10, 2008, 10:52:17 PM

Knightrider,

Very nice!   8)

Can't wait to see the macros!

Oh, yeah, and helpful!

Title: Re: Knightrider's Smoke Detector Modification Part1
Post by: Knightrider on March 10, 2008, 10:58:47 PM

Bill,
I took me how many weeks to actually get this published?  Look for part 2 (the macros) in early summer.  :D

Title: Re: Knightrider's Smoke Detector Modification Part1
Post by: Knightrider on March 13, 2008, 08:54:03 PM

BTW,
I couldn't have pulled off this post if not for the help of Dave_X10_L over at Lantern Light Solutions.  He really helped me with formatting the pics (even made them into a movie [still needs some narration]).  Thanks Dave!

Title: Re: Knightrider's Smoke Detector Modification Part1
Post by: Knightrider on December 31, 2008, 10:58:15 PM

Here's a link to part 2:
http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=17225.0

(I'm just tickled that i got this in before 2009)

Title: Re: Knightrider's Smoke Detector Modification Part1
Post by: ray4805 on March 25, 2011, 05:38:17 PM

Hi
I am very new to the X10 world, so new my SC1200 is still in the box. There seems to be one or two mods for a smoke detector coupled with the DS10a, my thoughts are most Smoke Detectors all com with a third wire for interlinking, so why not just put a relay of it and hook the DS10a into the replay instead of the Read switch. This way any smoke detector on the chain will set the alarm off.
Some one must have done it, I am told the yellow wire on the smoke detector gives off 9v not sure if its AC or DC.
What are the thoughts of this forum

Title: Re: Knightrider's Smoke Detector Modification Part1
Post by: Knightrider on March 25, 2011, 05:51:38 PM

Please note that I use this mod as a secondary system to interface with X10.

Do not count on these things to save you from a fire!!

With that being said, do you really want to screw with a 110v smoke alarm system knowing that what you are doing can impede the system and probably totally violate code?

My system was a cheap way to tell the computers that we had a fire situation.  That's all.  We still use regular smoke alarms in the house.

Title: Re: Knightrider's Smoke Detector Modification Part1
Post by: dave w on March 25, 2011, 08:14:04 PM

Quote from: ray4805 on March 25, 2011, 05:38:17 PM

Hi
 my thoughts are most Smoke Detectors all com with a third wire for interlinking, so why not just put a relay of it and hook the DS10a into the replay instead of the Read switch. This way any smoke detector on the chain will set the alarm off.
I am told the yellow wire on the smoke detector gives off 9v not sure if its AC or DC.

Are you talking about a specific brand/model of smoke detector, because there is no "yellow wire" or "interlinking" standard.

If you are talking about the FIREX, it's probably DC since the system uses 9V battery back-up.

(Just found out ray4805 was referencing hard wired 120V smoke detectors - different matter, I will go back to sleep now.  ;)  )

Title: Re: Knightrider's Smoke Detector Modification Part1
Post by: ray4805 on March 26, 2011, 08:24:18 AM

Hi

All the Hard wired Smoke Detectors I have seen in the US come with 3rd wire (this wire color does change between manufacturers)for interlinking, one detector goes off they all go off, its part of the code, not sure in all states, so all manufacturers make them this way, check out any in home depot. also click or cut and paste http://tinyurl.com/4vskoo9

So using the a relay off that 3rd wire would to me make sense its there, it switches so why not tap off it a  small relay would draw les current than another interconnected smoke detector. As it also supplies a current, it could be used to power the DS10a with a simple power supply. This of course is only an extension of the brillant idea to Marry a smoke detector to a DC10a, what a perfect couple for any household.

Ray

Quote from: dave w on March 25, 2011, 08:14:04 PM

Quote from: ray4805 on March 25, 2011, 05:38:17 PM

Hi
 my thoughts are most Smoke Detectors all com with a third wire for interlinking, so why not just put a relay of it and hook the DS10a into the replay instead of the Read switch. This way any smoke detector on the chain will set the alarm off.
I am told the yellow wire on the smoke detector gives off 9v not sure if its AC or DC.

Are you talking about a specific brand/model of smoke detector, because there is no "yellow wire" or "interlinking" standard.

If you are talking about the FIREX, it's probably DC since the system uses 9V battery backup.

Quote from: dave w on March 25, 2011, 08:14:04 PM

Quote from: ray4805 on March 25, 2011, 05:38:17 PM

Hi
 my thoughts are most Smoke Detectors all com with a third wire for interlinking, so why not just put a relay of it and hook the DS10a into the replay instead of the Read switch. This way any smoke detector on the chain will set the alarm off.
I am told the yellow wire on the smoke detector gives off 9v not sure if its AC or DC.

Are you talking about a specific brand/model of smoke detector, because there is no "yellow wire" or "interlinking" standard.

If you are talking about the FIREX, it's probably DC since the system uses 9V battery backup.

Title: Re: Knightrider's Smoke Detector Modification Part1
Post by: Knightrider on March 26, 2011, 10:21:52 AM

I'm a Jolly Volly Firefighter, and I've got to say that I'm real uncomfortable with this idea.

Title: Re: Knightrider's Smoke Detector Modification Part1
Post by: Brian H on March 26, 2011, 10:27:14 AM

I also would not reccommend connecting anything not approved to a smoke detector setup.
If you are unfortunate and have a fire. Last thing you want is the insurance company and fire inspector to see an unapproved device connection.

Now if you installed a smoke detector just for triggering a DS10A and it was NOT part of the homes smoke detector network. That may work.

Title: Re: Knightrider's Smoke Detector Modification Part1
Post by: dave w on March 26, 2011, 11:08:14 AM

Quote from: Brian H on March 26, 2011, 10:27:14 AM

Now if you installed a smoke detector just for triggering a DS10A and it was NOT part of the homes smoke detector network. That may work.

Yes this is the way to go. My battery powered detectors have a DC powered horn, same style as the battery horn on my bicycle of 30  40  50 years ago.
http://home.howstuffworks.com/home-improvement/household-safety/fire/smoke4.htm the lower silver thing-a-ma-bob (technical term) on right side detector.

Detectors using a piezo alarm: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Smokealarm.JPG    the white gizmo (technical term) in upper left may not trigger a relay if it is driven by an oscillator circuit on the PC board.

Would be easy to drive a small relay from that voltage on the horn style alarm.

But like Knight and Brian, I would use a redundant detector solely dedicated to the security system.

Title: Re: Knightrider's Smoke Detector Modification Part1
Post by: ray4805 on March 26, 2011, 01:11:28 PM

Kidde Smoke detectors already make a device http://www.selectsafetysales.com/p-217-kidde-smoke-alarm-relay-module-sm120x.aspx

Title: Re: Knightrider's Smoke Detector Modification Part1
Post by: Brian H on March 26, 2011, 01:46:43 PM

Since that module is approved for wired alarms.
I would think it could be used.
I still would NEVER count on an X10 signal as my primary safety alarm. As X10, even in the most reliable setup, is not always 100%.
Redundant or just an added notice would be OK.

Title: Re: Knightrider's Smoke Detector Modification Part1
Post by: ray4805 on March 27, 2011, 10:29:19 AM

I do appreciate all comments on this forum, the smoke detector notification is for use when your not in the building, so it would not the primary source for safety.

I can also understand X10 not getting into the business of Smoke detectors, can you imagine the Liability that could be hanging over such a device. And the 3rd wire that pushes out 9v DC may not even run a relay.

So I will but one of those Kidde SM120X Smoke Alarm Relay Module ans see what its made of, is it possible to place photo's on this forum.

Ray

Title: Re: Knightrider's Smoke Detector Modification Part1
Post by: Knightrider on March 27, 2011, 10:50:13 AM

small pics can be attached to your post, and larger ones can be linked out of a pic hosting site


http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=10516.0 (http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=10516.0)

Title: Re: Knightrider's Smoke Detector Modification Part1
Post by: ray4805 on March 27, 2011, 11:13:19 AM

Well I have just purchased 3 SM 120X moduls for thess than $27 inc carraige. $9 ea not worth messing with for that sort of money.
For those that may be interested here is the link http://tinyurl.com/4cgdosr That is $7.23 each and $4.90 shipping and handling. same $4.90 for one or more.

Thanks for all your input, once I get going on this X10 I will be back to ask more questions.

Looks like a grat forum to belong to.

Thanks
Ray

Title: Re: Knightrider's Smoke Detector Modification Part1
Post by: Knightrider on March 27, 2011, 11:23:36 AM

It's great to have you on this forum and I look forward to seeing your results.

Title: Re: Knightrider's Smoke Detector Modification Part1
Post by: Knightrider on June 19, 2011, 12:13:44 PM

JUNE 19, 2011 UPDATE!!!

Last night one of my best friends lost his entire home due to a fire.  The house was located on a very rural road and well secluded in some woods.  My friend was spending the week-end over an hour away at his parents, and the fire was not discovered until flames had impinged the metal roof.  By the time I had figured out who's house it was, and got him there, there was only a foundation left.  The fire wasn't in my district, so I wasn't that concerned in the beginning until I put 2 and 2 together, and by that time the fire was 4 hours going.  Mind you, I didn't fight this fire, just held my buddy up from fainting.

Long story short, it wasn't a huge house, and he had 6 (yes 6) working smoke alarms, so he thought he was being extra careful.  If a smoke alarm goes off in the woods, and no one is around to hear it, does the fire still happen?  YES!!!

We're going over today to sort the rubble.  In the weeks and months to come, he'll rebuild his house and his life, and I've personally taken it on myself to augment his new fire alarm system with some modified alarms as well.

These will not replace his main alerting system, but run by it's side.  I'll either hook him up with a CM15A and the powerflash module modified alarms, or a SC1200 and some DS12A modified detectors.  Either way, if a fire happens and he's not there, at least it won't burn (in theory) for a few hours before anyone knows about it.


Do not depend on these things to save you from a fire!!!!

In the fire service, our goals are for life safety, property conservation and incident containment.  The modified alarms will cover #2,  his main alarms will cover #1, my brothers in firefighting will take care of the rest.

Things can be replaced, lives cannot.  I'm thankful that neither he or his wife or children were home, but.....


You can never be too careful. 

Title: Re: Knightrider's Smoke Detector Modification Part1
Post by: HA Dave on June 19, 2011, 04:42:25 PM

Quote from: Knightrider on June 19, 2011, 12:13:44 PM

JUNE 19, 2011 UPDATE!!!
Things can be replaced, lives cannot. I'm thankful that neither he or his wife or children were home, but.....

Some things... can be replaced. My insurance, like most other peoples, insure the value of the home... not the size of it's mortgage. The recent fall in home prices may have more people at greater risk than they realize.

Knightrider, your work with X10 is very comprehensive and impressive. Far too often automation users forget about the benefits available with security and safety. Your smoke alarm mod would be a major added level of protection for many people. And at such a tiny cost.

Title: Re: Knightrider's Smoke Detector Modification Part1
Post by: JMac on June 19, 2011, 04:54:16 PM

And this mod (as well as the mod by James S) are not that difficult to accomplish.  Even if you just have it send a text message, it's peace of mind...........

Title: Re: Knightrider's Smoke Detector Modification Part1
Post by: jediagh on June 27, 2011, 11:40:22 PM

Where can I find the mod by James S?

I recall reading that someone used a FIRST ALERT SA720CN Photoelectric Sensor Smoke Alarms with Escape Light and a Radio Shack 5VDC/1A SPDT Micro Relay Catalog #: 275-240 along with a DS10A sensor.  But I can't seem to find the link anymore.
 B:(

In that thread their was a text image of how to wire the relay to the fire detector.  That is what I'm looking for.  Thanks!

Title: Re: Knightrider's Smoke Detector Modification Part1
Post by: HA Dave on June 28, 2011, 12:40:37 AM

Quote from: jediagh on June 27, 2011, 11:40:22 PM

Where can I find the mod by James S?

Here:  http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=13542.msg51611#msg51611 (http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=13542.msg51611#msg51611)

and (with a link) also here:  http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=8251.msg50452#msg50452 (http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=8251.msg50452#msg50452)

I found other references to the same post a few times... I reviewed all (27) of James S's posts. I didn't see any images or diagrams.

Title: Re: Knightrider's Smoke Detector Modification Part1
Post by: JMac on June 28, 2011, 04:42:03 PM

Here is a connection diagram.....

Title: Re: Knightrider's Smoke Detector Modification Part1
Post by: HA Dave on June 28, 2011, 09:11:04 PM

Quote from: JMac on June 28, 2011, 04:42:03 PM

Here is a connection diagram.....

Thank you JMac. I inserted the image... as an image.

Title: Re: Knightrider's Smoke Detector Modification Part1
Post by: Knightrider on June 28, 2011, 09:39:42 PM

You guys that have posted to this thread have made me proud!  I encourage everyone out there to incorporate any one of these great mods as a supplemental fire detection system, as well as to ensure that your primary detection systems are properly working with good batteries.

My dad was a full time firefighter, and he always stressed safety and early detection/evacuation in a home fire.  My brothers are firefighters.  I am a firefighter.  My son is a firefighter.  Anything that makes us safer is a good thing.

I'm just tickled that so many people share my enthusiasm for interfacing smoke detection into your X10 system. 

Keep up the good work, and I challenge every one of you to come up with new and better mods.

 #:)

PS. Don't rely on these things to save you from a fire.