X10 Community Forum
🔌General Home Automation => Automating Your House => User Modified Devices => Topic started by: ThePharaoh on May 31, 2009, 01:23:16 AM
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Please post why or why not after voting!!!
Hey, i am currently working on building a system modification that allows a user to control their x10 system via a text message. For example, if you want to turn "dining room lights" on, you would text to the system's number, "dining room lights on". I decided it would be a great way to remotely access your home automation system since everyone always has their phone, and it has not been created yet. Also, i am thinking about selling this to the public, if you are intrested, type what would be a reasonable price for this addon, keep in mind it will be mostly a new hardware!!!! It will let your old system remain as is.
Thank you.
The Pharaoh
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I'd be interested in hearing more about it as you develop it. I think it's a great idea.
What kind of hardware? Will the hardware be stand alone or will it work with the computer that has AHP installed?
i.e. Will it plug in to the AHP computer or run independent of it?
Will it be able to control all 256 HC/UCs or be limited to 1 HC? (My telephone controller is limited to just 10 UCs for a single HC.)
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It will be standalone. I am basically going to use a arduino, a router, and a firecracker donggle. Im basically building a new system that all its function is is to recive text message commands, and send them to the x10 modules. One firecracker dongle allows control of 16 devices, but im not sure if i can connect multiple dongles yet to the arduino. Once i have finished this project and am sure it works completely, i will start to sell it, since it appears no one currently sells such a device. I will make them custom for each person. How much do you think a device like this should be worth? Since its mostly hardware, be reasonable.
****edit****
I have acutally found a better replacement for the firecracker. This new device can send and recieve signals from the modules, i think you may be able to control more devices with this, but i am currently unsure
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It will be standalone. I am basically going to use a arduino, a router, and a firecracker dongle..."
So it will basically plug it into an existing network router for its email and the outlet for power and X10 signals?
How user friendly/programmable will it be? e.g. If it is originally set up to map "Living Room On" to "C3 On" and I later decide to make C3 my garage door how easy will it be to change?
Any plans to secure it from unauthorized emails? Perhaps require a password to proceed each command or even better have the PW open authorization with say a 2 min timeout from the last email so you could do a series of commands in one session.
I'd be ok with the format: PW HC/UC On/Off/Dim/Brighten [Dim/Brighten%]
e.g. if the PW was "Hal123": Hal123 C4 On
Any thoughts of having it email back a confirmation of the command executed?
"...How much do you think a device like this should be worth? Since its mostly hardware, be reasonable..."
Hard to say as I don't have any idea as to what the hardware costs will be or how much development and assembly time is involved. I am definitely interested particularly if you can figure how to get it to control more than one HC. i.e. My interest is directly proportional to the number of addresses it can control. 16="ok, maybe interested" to 256="Wow how soon can I get one!" Bonus points if it can send dim and brighten commands.
...I have actually found a better replacement for the firecracker. This new device can send and receive signals from the modules, i think you may be able to control more devices with this, but i am currently unsure
Hmm... What kind of device have you found? I thought I had heard of just about all the products that can work in the US.
Keep me posted as you get closer to having a completed project and if you need a beta tester just holler.
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Ok, i do not think it it will need password control. I am using twitter and something called pachube to transmit the text message's commands. Twitter lets you register your account with your phone number, and that is what phone works with it, the number is also changeable. Basically, u send a text to twitter's number and this updates your twitter feed. The feed is constantly monitored by the device, so if you send living room lights on, then it wil trigger the command. I am trying to make the different devices renameable, and i am pretty sure u can dim and brighten. I will also try to make 256 devices controllable and i will also attempt (i cannot promise) to make it possible to get the status of a certain device (ex: living room lights status)(a text replies on/off/dim/bright). I think making it standalone is a benefit, since if your main controller fails, this is a backup. Also, you wil need a dedicated twitter account for this, but this shouldnt matter since twitters free. And twitter will ensure security, also if you manually update the twitter feed via the site, it should also trigger it. Wish me luck, i will start building and testing in about a week or two when i get my parts in. this device will need to be connected to a router, or i can make it wireless for the customer by installing a programmed router inside the device, and all you will need to do is setup wireless bridging, which i can assist you in. I am also thinking about making a backup battery, i dont no, give me some thoughts, feedback, would you be intrested in buying one...etc!!! LOL
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Not sure about needing the battery, as plc tends not to work very well in a power outage. My CM15A's already have the battery backup at any rate. I hate to sound like a fogey here, but I'm not a twit, or on facebook, or on myspace or yourspace, and never plan to be. There's only so many places in the great WWW (wild wild west) that I plan on disemanating my information. (gee, that makes me sound old).
Isn't there a way to do this via a pop3 email account?
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I have figured out on how to do it via twitter, you will not need to release any information. You do not need to have any friends or anything, the account will be solely dedicated to your automation system. It makes it simple to use, and ensures security. I actually plan on setting up everything, including the twitter and pachube accounts for the customer, so all they have to do is use the text message right away. I will look into pop3 email, but i doubt it will be as effective as twitter, because twitter has a faster update time. Thanks for your intrest!!!!
***edit***
you can also make ur twitter private!!!, and its secure....and quick updating...and simple for anyone to use
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I hate to sound like a fogey here,........ There's only so many places in the great WWW (wild wild west) that I plan on disemanating my information. (gee, that makes me sound old).
Hey nothing wrong with sounding your age Knightrider.... most of us can learn from you old guys.
I have figured out on how to do it via twitter
Well... old guys like Knightrider might ask... what happens when Twitter goes the way of anglefire (or soon geocities)?
Has ANY free Internet service discovered a profit making business plan yet? I am even older than Knightrider and have seen more than a few Internet services come-and-go.
Future cap-and-trade plans doesn't bode well for server farms... as rolling black and/or brown outs will be mandated nationwide. Large scale "services" that operate marginally will most likely suffer the most [or the soonest].
X10 has servers for remote viewing and control... yet even diehard X10 fans (like myself) look for direct IP solutions.
If Twitter goes belly-up tomorrow.... then what?
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With word of twitter starting to charge for some services It makes me wonder ???
A secondary connection like POP 3 is a good idea to look at and probably would be used by more users.
>!
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A secondary connection like POP 3 is a good idea to look at and probably would be used by more users.
I promise to lookin to pop3 and other methods as soon as my final exams are over (in about a week), but the major problem i think with POP 3 is that i believe there will be a major delay. First their is a delay till the email recieves (about 3 seconds) and then theres the delay of reading from the email, twitter is almost instant, and less complicated, i believe for both me and the user, but i promise to look into pop3 and alternate methods.... Also, i wish to no how many people would be willing to buy this device, and about how much they would spend, so i can attempt to buy things in bulk and minimize the costs for the purchaser, i will give them a month to return the device if they do not like it.
Thank you for your intrest, i really appreciate your comments and input!!!
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...Also, i wish to no how many people would be willing to buy this device, and about how much they would spend, so i can attempt to buy things in bulk...
Your target audience is a select number of the small percent of the public that uses X10 products.
At this point in the game I'd only recommend starting with a few. I wouldn't build more than say 2-5 for test purposes.
That said, I'll restate that I'm possibly interested even if I mostly only use it to show off to friends and family.
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I have noticed that most not very many are intrested, since they can use the myhome or myhouse internet controller off their phone's web browser. I have been warned about this but i realized that not everyone has internet on their phone, and i believe the not all phones' web browsers are capable of using myhome. I also guessed more people have text messaging than internet on their phones, and i overall believe text messaging is simpler, also you are capable of using twitter to update as well. I also think that since it is standalone, it would be more beneficial since its like a backup system, and can function on its own. Anyway, i have decided to make the machines custom for each customer, and also, i am intrested if theres any other features you guys wish for.
Thank you
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If Twitter goes belly-up tomorrow.... then what?
The chances of twitter going belly-up are just like that of hotmail, yahoo, aim, facebook, myspace, etc....
I could say what are the chances of hotmail going belly-flop tommorow? And in case that happens, all my customers will have long warranties and technical support.....especially the first to purchase.
***Note****
i talked with customer support for x10, and found that the new controller thingy that i plan to replace the firecracker with allows control of up to 256 devices!!!!!
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....The chances of twitter going belly-up are just like that of hotmail, yahoo, aim, facebook, myspace, etc....
I could say what are the chances of hotmail going belly-flop tommorow?
Well Yahoo has sent out their notice of termination of FREE services... apparently you missed that. AIM... has JUST been freed (fired) from roadrunner (Time-Warner). HOTMAIL is actually the property of Microsoft... UNLIKE other no-profit services. It's just plain silly to compare Twitter to Microsoft.
You may be just a little young to realize that many businesses come... and go. And the Internet is far from an exception.
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What device are you going to use other then the firecracker?
I don't think it matters if one company goes under cause there is always a new one that comes to replace it. Myself I don't see a need to control things via text message. Besides its a cool factor. There is already stuff to control X10 via internet and instant messaging. But I'm also one of the people that cant figure out why we invented cell phones that we can instantly talk with people all people want to do is text message. rofl
Yahoo as terminated their free website hosting. Yahoo IM and AOL IM has always been free and around for many years now. Now for myspace,facebook and Twitter they are phases.. Myspace was cool until facebook came around and facebook was cool until twitter came and in a few months something else will be the "new cool" I'm not saying they will go under or disappear but the free sites are funded by adds so when a new thing comes the Adds people move on to it.
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What device are you going to use other then the firecracker?
I now plan on using the TW523 two-way X10 controller.
Also, not everyone always has interent or instant messaging available to them all the time. People usually always have their phone though, and many people have texting plans. Also, im curious to no if anyone has another way that they would like to control their device, Email i heard was one, but people dont realize that just the delivery of an email has like a 3 second delay, let alone the reading and commanding..... But anyone, i would like to hear your ideas, including ones on how i can improve the device im builing, and as i said, it can control 256 devices according to x10's technical support agent.
***edit***
does anyone no how i can decide on how much this device is worth? If i can get it to dim and brighten, and control 256 devices? Just as a reference, the phone controller costs 80 dollars and controls 10 devices, and i do not think it brightens or dims
Thankyou
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Ok my final exams just ended...*phew*...and my summer break begins tomorrow....*yay*....so now i will dedicate my time to the completion of this product. As i said, i am planing on making a profit from this, since i need a summer job, so i will make this device as professional as i can. Also, i found a really sweet idea for my casing, i am making it "tron style"...i will post a picture.
Anyway, i am going to try to make the following features:
-control of 256 devices
-bright/dim/on/off/device status....( so an example..i plan on making u send a text ....in the format.... kitchen lights on) etc....
-send u a response text message with your device's status
-a gui for the device that allows u to change names of your devices (you connect it to ur pc...run the software...and change the names ....simple)
-of course...text message control
-control via a dedicated twitter
-a super sexy case
case picture....example...idea...thingy:
(http://www.instructables.com/files/deriv/FPM/KINW/FC2EFW27/FPMKINWFC2EFW27.MEDIUM.jpg)
(by the way...the case is actually glowing...) sweeet eh? i might change the color of the lighting when i make it
im gonna keep u guys updated if you are intrested...
***edit***
forget the fancy case idea..it will just raise the price and electricity draw...its useless.....if you really like it...heres instructions on how to make your own http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Make-a-TRON-Style-Lamp-The-MADYLIGHT/ (http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Make-a-TRON-Style-Lamp-The-MADYLIGHT/)
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Mine most likely won't be taking any of the landscape of my desk as it will most likely will be behind the computer and therefore won't need to be lighted either.
Function is far more important than making it look pretty so a "super sexy case" isn't needed for me.
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that is why im making em custom ;) also i can make the device either wireless or wired....to make it wireless im going to install a router inside the device...and the user bridges it to their router wirelessly (very simple btw....) or you can just connect it to your router via ethernet cable
also...steven...what functions do u want....and how much would u pay for the functions u want
lol...btw...im asking u cuz u seem most interested...lol
***edit***
its all wireless now, based on the x10 protocol, it communicates with your existing system
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Well it you're designing for me then KISS.
A simple Ethernet connection is fine for me no need for the router expense. As far as features, in order of importance...
- bright/dim/on/off/
- Control of 256 devices
- Default simple interface using just HC/UC [command] regardless off any - Detailed text commands defined. i.e. "Out of the box" operation before text messages are programed.
- Texted confirmation of command received & executed
Sorry I still can't really make a estimate as to a fair selling cost but I think I paid around $29 for my telephone control and if your product can do all the the above, it could be more useful than my phone control.
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Yes!
Any way I can sas off to my computer is great.
As long as it understands me all the time.
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Okay, so i will have to setup the twitter accounts for the user on my own. And i estimate that it will take 100-150 to complete this project since im going to try and use parts that last (it should take about a week for everything to arrive....)....and maybe a week to completely program everything....im very optimistic about how this will work out
btw steve...IT WAS ONLY 30 DOLLARS FOR YOUR TELEPHONE CONTROLLER!!!
thats actually impressive..the one i found was 70-140 dollars...and only controlled like ten items...(http://www.homecontrols.com/cgi-bin/main/co_disp/displ/carfnbr/161/sesent/00 (http://www.homecontrols.com/cgi-bin/main/co_disp/displ/carfnbr/161/sesent/00))
also..im intrested in how it works....do you call a number and say like...lights on or something...also...can u brighten or dim?
Any way I can sas off to my computer is great
what do u mean? im lost
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...IT WAS ONLY 30 DOLLARS FOR YOUR TELEPHONE CONTROLLER!!!
thats actually impressive..the one i found was 70-140 dollars...and only controlled like ten items...
...can u brighten or dim?...
This is the one I have. (http://www.homecontrols.com/cgi-bin/main/co_disp/displ/carfnbr/161/prrfnbr/2365/X10-PRO-Telephone-Responder)
It might of been a bit more but I'm pretty sure sure I got it on sale. I know I didn't pay $70 for it. I really don't remember what I actually paid and yes it can only control 9-10 items depending on how it is configured. Sadly it also only will do ON and OFF so I think there is a market for your idea. To get the most out of mine, I have it control a few macros.
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I think i could build the devices cheaper and have them more user friendly if they are connected to the computer and run via a sofware instead of making them COMPLETELY standalone...and it would make it easier for me ;)
So, just to make sure...would you be capable of running another software on the pc you have dedicated to your x10 system? and would this idea be better for you guys...i guess since you already have a pc that already is on 24/7 it shouldnt be too much of a problem....but i want to make sure....
It would connect to an internet enabled pc via usb (probably the one running your x10 software)...and you would run the included software...do the initial user programming (basically naming your devices....) and that would be it....
I ordered the parts yesterday...so ill experiment with one that is completely standalone and the one i mentioned above...
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...i guess since you already have a pc that already is on 24/7 it shouldnt be too much of a problem....but i want to make sure....
It would connect to an internet enabled pc via usb (probably the one running your x10 software)...and you would run the included software...do the initial user programming (basically naming your devices....) and that would be it....
I ordered the parts yesterday...
Don't forget.... these Home Automation Computers don't JUST run software. They usually run a CM15A (an X10 PC interface) that allows control of the 256 X10 House/Unit codes. The CM15A has a SDK that can be downloaded from X10 for free.
So whereas.... the HA PC's already running 24/7 has an interface that can freely connect to user created software.... the CM15A refuses to operate in conjunction with OTHER similar interfaces.
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I am making the device with its own software and controller....it will not be related to the existing system whatsoever....im making the software myself...all that you will need to do is run the software im making on the same pc, and keep the controller i built connected via usb...simple...eh?
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Simple, but an addition $100+ would be out of the question for most of us. Why not write to the CM15A and save us all a few bucks? The CM15A interface comes with an SDK, and user designed software will run with AHP. In the end, KISS goes well with "Keep It Cheap".
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..... the software im making on the same pc, and keep the controller i built connected via usb...simple...eh?
As long as the software your using isn't talking to an additional X10 device (like... a TW523 two-way X10 controller) the CM15A shouldn't care. Heck... the CM15A might NOT mind if you use a TW523... I don't know. I can't say I've ever read anything about anyone using one.
I like Knightrider's idea!
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My software will communicate with an arduino...which will communicate with another x10 controller....also...if i can get this method to work...the whole system with the software will be about 70-150 bucks...maybe less....and i will definitely make it cheaper for the first couple buyers since its in a beta phase and ill offer full tech support...also...i think the price isnt too bad...since the phone controller only allows on/off for ten devices and is 70 bucks....but dont worry bout the price....we'll figure it out once im done...im also going to try to do timers and status checks....but overall...by making it partially pc based i think i can make it cheaper....
wish me luck!!!
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good luck
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Keep checking the thread for updates....ill try to keep you up to date with how its going!!!
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Since text messaging sometimes takes several hours to be delivered, won't this be an unreliable option?
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no, i have tested text message updates to twitter....and it works almost instantly
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Since text messaging sometimes takes several hours to be delivered, won't this be an unreliable option?
no, i have tested text message updates to twitter....and it works almost instantly
While texting is instant most of the time, there are times when every cell provider can get delayed. This is why I'd like to see a feedback text.
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HEY!! great news...i just finished my prototype...and things are looking really well...the delay is more than i expected...but it is way less than what it would be with email....it takes about 30-60 seconds for a response...but i think thats not too unreasonable...im still trying to minimize it a bit...but i think its pretty good so far....
also...im making it run by python script...which ill transfer to a software soon with the help of vb6...to make it more user friendly.....im really pleased with how things are going....
just keeping u posted like i promised
***edit***
While texting is instant most of the time, there are times when every cell provider can get delayed. This is why I'd like to see a feedback text.
Sorry Steven, i forgot to respond lol. I have created the software so that twitter will send you a direct message saying "Command Confirmed" or something similar once it has recieved the command and it has been processed by the software.
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I am coming close to finalizing my first system. I will be finished, hopefully, by the end of this week and i will post images and full details. After months of hard work and frustration, and learning multiple new programming languages and pulling out lots of hair...the following features will be included...
-Control of x10 devices via SMS
-Control of x10 devices via twitter
-The ability to dim/brighten/turn on/turn off
-ability to control all 16 devices on all 16 housecodes (256 total)
-a text message sent to your phone to confirm that your sms command was recieved
-the ability to name devices
-very insignificant delay of a minute or two
-easy setup and install
-detailed user's manual
-ease of fixing errors/bugs...all i have to do is send you a new software
-sexy software which is very easy to use
-and the list goes on....
I am really proud of what i have done so far.....
Anyways...i will be looking for my first purchasers...who will also be beta testers....and they will have my full technical support
If you are interested..please let me know via a pm or a post...and we shall determine a reasonable, well discounted price for my first 5 purchasers/beta testers....
Thanks guys....
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This is taking longer than i expected LOL...but hey...im just polishing up the code now...and the hardware....
Anyway, i have really minimized the cost...and ill be selling them for about 40-50 dollars...which i think is pretty cheap....
Also, i was debating whether or not to make it a full function controller...which would not be too difficult right now, that also allows using your pc to turn on and off...dim...bright etc....
I really need your input guys!!!
Cheers >!
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Be nice to see some pics of your hardware setup and also some screen shots of your App GUI to give us an idea. Need to show what we are paying for!!
Sam
ps: most likely will be interested in this!
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LOL ...finally...someone speaks!!!
ok, im going to put up pictures of the gui, the hardware, complete details, and give a link to the user manual im creating...soon!!!
The only reason im delayed is (this is embarrassing but...) i accidently drilled through my microcontroller while i was casing the product B:( . But, im ordering a new one soon, so ill have everything done, hopefully by the weekend. Meanwhile, while i wait for lazy old UPS....ill work on improving my code and gui and creating the manual....
Thanks so much for showing your interest!!!
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rofl haha! I shouldn't laugh but I have done this stupid act trying to house an arduino on a little robot of mine. driller not only through the board but also into the motor gear housing and destroyed that also. Better luck on your next drilling session!
Awaiting some pics!
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LOL..wow...glad to know im not the only one ;) .
I was in a hurry, so i kinda wasn't thinking straight. I usually mark where to drill and then take the arduino out of the casing before drilling. Wow, hey, i at least learned my lesson -:) . I just hope ups would hurry up lol.
**Edit**
Sorry guys its taking so long. My order was mis-shipped B:( so im busy now going through the insurance crap to get my order replaced. I have the software done, now i just have to wait for the arduino so i can case things up and get some pics for you guys!! Sorry to keep you waiting.
Oh and by the way, i am very pleased to say that the poll, as of now, finally shows that the majority of people are interested!!! Whoooo!!! >!
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I have almost perfected it. I unfortunately have been having trouble finding time to work on it more since the start of school, but my Christmas break is coming up and hopefully i will manage to finish it then. I have spent some time working on a prototype so that i could ensure that i could speed things up. I am now integrating msn instead of twitter since its more reliable and tons faster. I have tested it with my simple software called "Simon Sings". It basically takes an im from your instant messenger (off the phone is basically the best idea, or im sure you can have sms instant messageing setup from the site...ill write a guide since this will also be integrated into simon says (the x10 controller)) and locates the song you request from youtube or your pc and plays it. Its pretty sweet...ill display that on the site soon...at least until i can finish the x10 controller. Thanks so much for your interest!!! And sorry for keeping you waiting.
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I have posted regarding the prototype that shows msn/sms control. It controls music, not the x10 system, but it displays the way the msn x10 controller will work. If you wish to beta test it, it is called Simon Sings...i posted it in the audio video section.
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.... If you wish to beta test it, it is called Simon Sings...i posted it in the audio video section.
A link could be helpful.
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here it is: http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=19437.msg108652#msg108652 (http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=19437.msg108652#msg108652)
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Now that the prototype is finished, and im sure msn will work as a controller, i will finish the home automation system. Problem is....should i chose the arduino...or just make it compatible with the cm15a....i think a cm15a would work better for most of you since u already have one...most of you.... and would be overall cheaper...but i still have to buy one to program for it....and its like 50 bucks...so u guys may have to wait longer
My other option is the cm11a. I think its even cheaper...but it doesnt have usb...maybe a serial to usb adapter? Do any of you know if its slower than the cm15a?
If you have any adapters you wish to donate or sell cheaply contact me...
Thanks
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I see what you are trying to do but there is an application out for android phones called autom8 that does this.
Another option is the x10 plugin on abelcam software. You can view your cameras and use the x10 plugin from a website server that is on your home computer. There is an admin login to be able to use it.
Have you tried that??
I am experimenting with abelcam software right now and so far it works great.
Just a thought.
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I have not had much time to work on the project for a while, im hoping now that schools coming closer to an end i might be able to do some more.
I see what you are trying to do but there is an application out for android phones called autom8 that does this.
Another option is the x10 plugin on abelcam software. You can view your cameras and use the x10 plugin from a website server that is on your home computer. There is an admin login to be able to use it.
Have you tried that??
I am experimenting with abelcam software right now and so far it works great.
Just a thought.
I know there are other options out there, but my goal is to make an efficient system everyone can use...not just people with android phones. I will make it so u can access it from anywhere you can access twitter, facebook, msn, twitter, yahoo, aim, and maybe more. I will do msn, facebook, and twitter for sure...the others are iffy...but the goal is to make the remote access universal....also, since you can update twitter and facebook with text messages, sms is also included...i also think its possible to use sms with msn...
My major problems now are time and financing...im experimenting with arduinos...and also im thinking about trying to make it even cheaper with a cm11a or the new usb version...but the problem is buying these parts will take me time and im on a tight budget...if anyone wishes to donate or sell one cheap...id be grateful