X10 Community Forum
🛡Home Security => Home Security General => Topic started by: paizano1 on August 04, 2009, 01:23:01 AM
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I thought some could use this information.
I have modded a mini powerhorn so that it has an isolated pair of contacts that can turn other things on while the siren is triggered from the home security system.
I took the 2 white wires off of the piezo speaker in the mini and wired 1 to the coil part of a 12v reed relay, the other wire i put a diode in line before connecting to the other end of the coil on relay. The contacts of the reed itself are wired to a female headphone jack or similar jack. A small hole is drilled in the side of the case for the jack to stick out. Everything is hot glued in place. The case is reassembled and that is it.
I have a separate siren that is powered by a 12v transformer. In place of the switch that turns on the siren, I wire in a male headphone jack, this is then plugged into the modded mini. Now when the siren trips, it connects the wires as though it were a switch.
The mini is also silent because the piezo is disconnected, this stops from drawing attention to it, which stops from the power being disconnected.
the separate siren is wired into the cold air return of the furnace. which makes for a really really loud siren that sounds when the system is triggered.
I have never felt that the mini or large powerhorn were really that loud, but with this mod, it can be as loud as your new external siren.
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Nice! >!
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...... I have modded a mini powerhorn so that it has an isolated pair of contacts that can turn other things on while the siren is triggered from the home security system.
Excellent!!!! You got a helpful from me.
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Fantastic - could you give us a parts list so that we know the specific parts that worked for you? This is definitely a solution of the "external siren" problem several have asked about.
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Fantastic - could you give us a parts list so that we know the specific parts that worked for you? This is definitely a solution of the "external siren" problem several have asked about.
Yes... pictures are nice too.
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#:)
Good work. Thanks for sharing.
Parts list as mentioned would be nice.
I find it interesting, that the high impedance sounder driver, was able to drive the relay.
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>! I agree with all of the above !!!!
Parts List and Pics...................
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Here is the list:
1 radioshack reed relay part#275-0233 12vdc
1 female headphone jack- had laying around in box of stuff
1 RG2-70 diode- again had just laying around from surplus, i don't think diode type is important.
On the diode, when i set of the siren and read voltage it was in the AC range not DC, Then after I put the diode on 1 leg of piezo wire my meter now read 11-13 volts DC. I think just about any diode would do fine, as long as voltage rating is high enough.
hope the picts are ok, camera focus is hard at close range.
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one other thing, the amp rating of relay is only .5amp, so if you want to trigger something other than a siren and it has a higher rating you will need to build a separate coil relay circuit that is turned on by the reed relay, but can handle higher amps. Discover circuits is a good place to find these types of schematics for free. Please feel free to modify and post any ideas you feel are better. This was just a quick thing i thought of, and the funny thing was--it worked.
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paizano1,
Thanks for the info. A very useful mod indeed. Bet you see your helpful rating swell. ;)
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#:) Got a HELPFUL from me.....
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...... I have modded a mini powerhorn so that it has an isolated pair of contacts that can turn other things on while the siren is triggered from the home security system.
Excellent!!!! You got a helpful from me.
Me To! I'm assuming you could also hook this up to an outside siren? But how large??
Tom j.
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I am not sure how large a horn is possible. The reed relay is only rated at 1 amp, but you could use the reed relay to trigger a separate relay circuit with a higher amp rating. Just think of the modification as a simple switch triggered by the alarm and your possibilities are pretty much endless.
On another note, thank you to all those who have given me helpfuls. Means a lot coming from those members who have helped me with all my problems.
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I am not sure how large a horn is possible. The reed relay is only rated at 1 amp, but you could use the reed relay to trigger a separate relay circuit with a higher amp rating. Just think of the modification as a simple switch triggered by the alarm and your possibilities are pretty much endless.
On another note, thank you to all those who have given me helpfuls. Means a lot coming from those members who have helped me with all my problems.
Thanks Paizano1 how about a siren like whats on a a car alarm, and what should I look for amperage?? this is DC so I don't over load it. Thanks!!
Tom j.
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a car alarm siren should work just fine. the one that i am using is similar to a car alarm siren, it is 12-15VDC rating, it is also a piezo siren like the one removed from the powerhorn only much much louder. and the nice thing about the mod is it allows you to control just about anything with the alarm. I also powered the siren with a wall transformer rated at 12volts and about 1000mah.
on a different note make sure the siren you use is self contained with its own driver circuit to create the siren, some car alarms use the brain unit to generate the sound. to test this just hook up to power and see what happens. Sorry took a couple days to respond was busy with some other things. Sometimes "electronics goldmine and allelectronics" have sirens and piezos.
remember mounting in the vent system makes for nice effect and trouble to locate.
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I saw one online already set up with outside siren but they stop makeing them :-[ :-[ They it will work with x10.
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My PH508 power horn puts out a short burst of warble tone when the alarm is set. Will this pick up the relay and announce to all the neighbor hood that you are about to leave home. Is their some way to turn off the PH508 tone burst when the alarm is set?
Thanks,
CJJ454
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My PH508 power horn puts out a short burst of warble tone when the alarm is set.
It sounds like you have the powerhorn set to the same house/unit address as the console. Try keeping it on the same house (letter) but change to any other unit (number) address.
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Thanks For your help.
CJJ454
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I guess I'm bumping this up--has anyone tried this mod lately? Is this still considered the easiest/best way to try to achieve a louder siren on these systems?
Thanks!
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Some have done the other more involved modification.
http://forums.x10.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=gnesvv200kld37mebj6ev213o4&topic=21998.0
I have not seen messages on which one is most liked.
I would imagine the one in this thread would be more fussy to the exact relays coil and contacts ratings.
If you do either modification. Be very careful of the wring so nothing hits other connections.
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I just did this mod using op's radioshack reed relay part#275-0233 12vdc ($3.45) and SH10A. I discovered that I needed to put a electrolytic capacitor (used 27uf because that's what I had on hand) across the DC output of the diode. Without the capacitor, the reed would not close and would vibrate sounding like the missing piezoelectric speaker.
The reed relay in turn energizes a $3 car alarm relay http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=12+Volt+Relay+Car+Alarms&_sacat=0&_odkw=2+Volt+Relay+Car+Alarms&_osacat=0&_from=R40 (http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=12+Volt+Relay+Car+Alarms&_sacat=0&_odkw=2+Volt+Relay+Car+Alarms&_osacat=0&_from=R40). The car alarm relay activates a $9 DSC SD30W Alarm siren http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l2736&_nkw=SD30W (http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l2736&_nkw=SD30W). Works great in the attic but might mount it outside. I selected these parts based on their low cost on ebay. By the way the reed relay works because it requires only 11ma of current to close the contacts... that's the secret sauce.
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I would agree. The cap should be used to smooth the pulsing DC. Probably best for all to add to theirs.
Since the output is designed to drive the very high impedance sounder usually a high voltage at minuscule current. The less current the relay needed the better.
Thank you for posting your findings.
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OK,
Excuse me for trying to do something over my head!! :)
I got the Radio Shack relay and a capacitor but I can't get it to work. The capacitor may be wrong as I can't seem to cross reference it.
I assume when all is right the output leads should just show continuity? I can read voltage from the other leads and the output leads will show a minor resistance but not enough to have continuity. Can someone give me a better idea what kind of capacitor I need so I can go to Radio Shack and buy one? BTW.... I tried the capacitor in both directions and neither worked.
Thanks,
Rex
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You didn't mention the diode in your purchase.
Did you also purchase and install the needed diode. To change the signal to DC.
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That just shows you how dumb I am... I meant diode but wrote capacitor...
I did install one (two different ones actually) but have NO idea if I have the right one. I just need someone to tell me what I need to buy at RS.
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I would think any general purpose diode with a high enough voltage rating should be fine. 200 volt or higher PIV.
OK did you add the capacitor across the relay coil to smooth out the DC.
I believe 27uf was mentioned. I would think the 22uf or 47uf 35 volt ones at RS would do.
I will look for my notes on what I used. As I had a different relay from All Electronics in mine and I removed the output transformer and switched the power through the output transistor directly.
I do remember that which white wire was connected to the diode. Made a big difference in how much voltage was developed.
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Thanks! I will try to flip flop the white wires and I will also try the capacitor.
Sorry I almost added my data to your response. I put it back where it belonged. B:(
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Remember electrolytic capacitors have a polarity. Make sure the + of the capacitor is connected to the + voltage side of the relay.
Connect the banded end of the diode to the relay.
One of the white wires to the other end of the diode.
Other white wire to the other terminal of the relay.
Connect the + side of the capacitor to the relay terminal with the banded end of the diode on it.
Connect the - end of the capacitor to the other relay connection with the white wire on it.
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Thank you!!!
I will give that a shot.
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Ok...
Close but no cigar!! Please understand I am in way over my head on this!! :)
The capacitor worked and I now can get continuity when triggered. I thought it should work but still doesn't.
In my simple terms it needs to close the contacts on a doorbell transformer which in turn triggers a 120v relay to the siren.
I take it the relay I have isn't big enough to do the job and I need another relay after the fact? If I just touch the wires of the doorbell transformer together I trigger the siren but the relay/PH mod doesn't seem to active it.
And one more stupid question for the day!! How long does the contacts stay closed or will the siren keep going until I disarm??
Thanks in advance!!
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When you trigger the Powerhorn. The relay contacts stay On as we hoped it would and not pulsing?
Usually the Powerhorn takes a few On off Cycles to the Light Code to trigger. Then sounds about 4-10 seconds after the cycles stop or after 4 minutes of sounding it the alarm is still sounding.
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What I did was connect a continuity meter to the leads. After 2 or 3 cycles the contacts close and stay that way for about 4-5 seconds.
I think THAT is all working correct but when the leads are attached to the alarm it doesn't trigger.
Also, I now assume that I will just have a 4-5 second blast of the siren if I can make it work then??
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If the alarm was still sounding and the Security Lights where still flashing. The Powerhorn should have kept the internal relay closed.
Do you happen to remember. If the unmodified small Powerhorn sounded as long as the alarm was sounding? I ask this because the Large Powerhorn. Depending on date code did not act 100% correctly with a SC1200. One date code large Powerhorn actually sounded one time every time you armed it and the security light flashed indicating a arm was successful.
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The unmodified power horn would sound as long as the alarm was sounding. It does not sound when arming. That's what I am trying to get away from.
So what do I need to trigger the door bell transformer? The UM506 would work but that had the issue with the arming sound.
Thanks.