X10 Community Forum

ActiveHome Pro => ActiveHome Pro General => Wish List => Topic started by: Dan Lawrence on September 01, 2009, 08:06:46 PM

Title: When is an upgrade to AHP going to happen
Post by: Dan Lawrence on September 01, 2009, 08:06:46 PM
The last good release of AHP is 2.228 dated 5-09-2008.  Is X10 even, with the dearth of programmers, planning on a good release any time in the near future?
Title: Re: When is an upgrade to AHP going to happen
Post by: HA Dave on September 01, 2009, 08:29:18 PM
.......Is X10 even, ...planning on a good release any time in the near future?

The technology has changed so much since the introduction of the CM15A/AHP. The CM11A is all but completely gone... the price for the CM15A with all the software... is now way down there ($39.99). I expect to see a NEW interface to be released. Maybe one that connects to the PC wirelessly via WiFi or a special dongle. Maybe.... an interface with a decent antenna!
Title: Re: When is an upgrade to AHP going to happen
Post by: steven r on September 01, 2009, 09:05:06 PM
...I expect to see a NEW interface to be released. Maybe one that connects to the PC wirelessly via WiFi or a special dongle. Maybe.... an interface with a decent antenna!
Are you dreaming again?  ;D
Title: Re: When is an upgrade to AHP going to happen
Post by: HA Dave on September 01, 2009, 09:34:17 PM
Are you dreaming again? 

Maybe! I was going by the old retail way of selling.



The technology has changed so much... a new design could possibly be manufactured much cheaper (yet sell at the old "regular price"). I could be wrong... but I bet China has some programmers there now too.

When I bought Active Home (CM11A) it was HighTech.... and at a great NEW low price. The next thing I knew... the CM15A (AHP) was introduced and AH was $10. When I bought AHP... I got "smart macros" for FREE (saving myself $50). I had to buy Iwitness and OnAlert later.
Title: Re: When is an upgrade to AHP going to happen
Post by: Dan Lawrence on September 02, 2009, 08:11:02 PM
In other words, a fortune hunter or Ouija board might have a good idea when - maybe.
Title: Re: When is an upgrade to AHP going to happen
Post by: HA Dave on September 02, 2009, 08:52:58 PM
In other words, a fortune hunter or Ouija board might have a good idea when - maybe.

No. I could be completely wrong. But all signs are... that the CM15A and it's software are at (or near) its end-of-days. Profit taking is past.. and clearance may have begun. I won't be looking for any major updates.
Title: Re: When is an upgrade to AHP going to happen
Post by: dave w on September 03, 2009, 12:28:19 PM
I think I'm on the same bus with steven r. I don't see X10 changing the CM15A or AHP for a decade or two.   :'
Title: Re: When is an upgrade to AHP going to happen
Post by: steven r on September 03, 2009, 01:11:47 PM
This definitely a case where I'd like to be wrong. While I'm generally optimistic on most things, when it comes to X10 a bit of pessimism creeps in from time to time.
Drifting off into dreamland...


Ring RING.. Time to wake already? It was such a nice dream. Just a few more minutes... Please...
Title: Re: When is an upgrade to AHP going to happen
Post by: HA Dave on September 03, 2009, 01:20:22 PM
I think I'm on the same bus with steven r. I don't see X10 changing the CM15A or AHP for a decade or two. 

I don't see the AHP/CM15A being available a lot longer. This is technology... it's lifespan is measured in months... not decades.

Four or five years ago the AHP package with smart macros sold for $100 bucks. Today you can get that (with iwitness and OnAlert thrown in) for $39.99. So... what would that price be in a couple more decades? If forty bucks isn't the clearance price... what would clearance price be? Don't forget... what the purpose of clearance is.

I've already picked up my extra CM15A. But when I think about what could be coming down-the-pike with any new (maybe wifi?) technology interface. I will likely find the money for the new stuff (just like everyone else).
Title: Re: When is an upgrade to AHP going to happen
Post by: Jsnlong on September 03, 2009, 03:44:17 PM
I agree with Dave.. In retail the lower price means soon something new is coming but I think this time the lower Price is due to lack of sales. Sale the AHP/CM15A and the new user will buy more modules.

For all you old guys  :' how long was it from AH/cm11 to AHP/cm15
Title: Re: When is an upgrade to AHP going to happen
Post by: steven r on September 03, 2009, 03:57:39 PM
...For all you old guys  :' how long was it from AH/cm11 to AHP/cm15
Hmm... I can't remember must be getting old.  ;)

Anyway I want to be the 1st to volunteer as a beta tester if they come up with something new.  ;D
Title: Re: When is an upgrade to AHP going to happen
Post by: dave w on September 03, 2009, 04:27:58 PM

For all you old guys  :' how long was it from AH/cm11 to AHP/cm15

CM15A was somewhere around 2003-2005 (?) (Little help here guys)

and I remember using CM11 back in 1997 but do not remember when it first hit the market.
Title: Re: When is an upgrade to AHP going to happen
Post by: HA Dave on September 03, 2009, 06:23:12 PM
I agree with Dave.. In retail the lower price means soon something new is coming

I bought a new grill (a gift) today at clearance... less than half of what they cost this past summer. The clearance moneys help to pay for Christmas stock. And Christmas stock... will hit the door marked down to re-coop left over investment costs. Then stock will be marked for profit taking (regular price). Then...sale priced and then marked for clearance. (NOTE: Christmas stock is marked to it lowest price JUST before Christmas. so receiptless returns are credited at that LOWEST price.)



Title: Re: When is an upgrade to AHP going to happen
Post by: Knightrider on September 03, 2009, 06:46:48 PM


CM15A was somewhere around 2003-2005 (?) (Little help here guys)



I bought my first unit in 2004.  By process of elimination we can rule out the last year listed.
Title: Re: When is an upgrade to AHP going to happen
Post by: Brian H on September 03, 2009, 07:16:48 PM
My two older ones with early firmware are Date Codes: 04J44 and 04J41
Title: Re: When is an upgrade to AHP going to happen
Post by: Dan Lawrence on September 03, 2009, 09:15:08 PM
I got mine in July of 2005 and 4 years later it's still happily working.
Title: Re: When is an upgrade to AHP going to happen
Post by: Nate2 on September 07, 2009, 09:06:14 AM
and I remember using CM11 back in 1997 but do not remember when it first hit the market.

My CM11A has a date code "9A02".
That must be January 1999 ?
Continued to work in 2009! 
#:)
Title: Re: When is an upgrade to AHP going to happen
Post by: Charles Sullivan on September 08, 2009, 11:14:02 PM

The email from X-10 with the URL for downloading the AHP software for my CM15A was received 9 Sep 2004 and the shipping notice email the following day.  I'm pretty sure I ordered the unit within a month of its introduction.

I remember posting a few bug reports about it on comp.home.automation and getting a PM from X10Pro telling me about this forum.

Title: Re: When is an upgrade to AHP going to happen
Post by: dave w on September 09, 2009, 01:22:56 PM
For all you old guys  :' how long was it from AH/cm11 to AHP/cm15

OK there you have it. The CM11 lasted from 1996 or 1997 to late 2004.
Title: Re: When is an upgrade to AHP going to happen
Post by: steven r on September 09, 2009, 02:52:18 PM
OK there you have it. The CM11 lasted from 1996 or 1997 to late 2004.
That makes the a retail sales life of the CM11A about 7 or 8 years and the time that the CM15A has been out of about 5 years or a little more than half that time. We can hope and I expect we won't need to wait a full 7 to 8 years before something new emerges.

BTW... Anyone remember when the CP290 (think that was the model number) came out?
Title: Re: When is an upgrade to AHP going to happen
Post by: HA Dave on September 09, 2009, 03:32:24 PM
.....That makes the a retail sales life of the CM11A about 7 or 8 years and the time that the CM15A has been out of about 5 years or a little more than half that time. We can hope and I expect we won't need to wait a full 7 to 8 years before something new emerges.

I think your calculations makes good sense. Particularly when we look at the operating systems involved too. A new device designed for Vista/7... would seem reasonable. But current market conditions could also change everything.

But X10's mission statement (http://www.x10jobs.com/hr/mission_statement.html) does say:  Our mission is to design, develop and market quality home products and services at affordable prices that make our customers' lives better.
Title: Re: When is an upgrade to AHP going to happen
Post by: dave w on September 09, 2009, 04:36:37 PM
OK there you have it. The CM11 lasted from 1996 or 1997 to late 2004.
BTW... Anyone remember when the CP290 (think that was the model number) came out?
1986
Title: Re: When is an upgrade to AHP going to happen
Post by: Dan Lawrence on September 09, 2009, 05:01:48 PM
OK there you have it. The CM11 lasted from 1996 or 1997 to late 2004.
BTW... Anyone remember when the CP290 (think that was the model number) came out?
1986

That sounds about right.  I got my CP290 from a now-vanished Heath store on Joppa Road in Baynesville, a suburb of Baltimore. That was my beginning to X10.
Title: Re: When is an upgrade to AHP going to happen
Post by: steven r on September 09, 2009, 06:40:21 PM
BTW... Anyone remember when the CP290 (think that was the model number) came out?
1986
So that makes about 10 years for the CP290 and 7 or 8 for the CM11A. If one could make a reliable progression from that, then 5 years with the CM15A would make it about time for a new toy.  ;D
Title: Re: When is an upgrade to AHP going to happen
Post by: dave w on September 09, 2009, 08:53:15 PM
Being the eternal pessimist, I would be surprised to find out that X10 has even a glimer of thought about a CM15A/AHP update. I don't think they have the technical or financial resources any more. One thing in X10 favor: I'm not an insider, but of the new automation protocols now available (Z-Wave, UPB, Insteon, etc) I don't see any standard really pulling ahead in the market place. I tend to think possible buyers are viewing the multiple standards as replays of the great Blu-Ray vs HD and VHS vs Betamax wars and that's good news for X10.

(yeah, I know, remembering "Betamax" pretty well dates me as an "ole man"...sigh, I even remember "U-Matic").

I wonder what a D&B on X10 would show?
Title: Re: When is an upgrade to AHP going to happen
Post by: Dan Lawrence on September 09, 2009, 10:38:46 PM
You may be right.   We may be stuck with 3.228 as the last good release (3.236 seems to like 1.42 was for Active Home  -  the buggy version. We all stayed with the prior version of 1.32 as 1.42 seemed to do funny things.)
Title: Re: When is an upgrade to AHP going to happen
Post by: HA Dave on September 10, 2009, 11:22:48 AM
Being the eternal pessimist, I would be surprised to find out that X10 has even a glimer of thought about a CM15A/AHP update. I don't think they have the technical or financial resources any more.

The best way to rid yourself of a resource... is to waste it. China has come a long way in recent years. There is no need to manufacture a product there... then write the software to use it...here. China has programmers and electrical engineers too. I would really doubt that the Chinese need any more than a product description for a new X10 product.

One thing in X10 favor: I'm not an insider, but of the new automation protocols now available (Z-Wave, UPB, Insteon, etc) I don't see any standard really pulling ahead in the market place. I tend to think possible buyers are viewing the multiple standards as replays of the great Blu-Ray vs HD and VHS vs Betamax wars and that's good news for X10.

Yeah... I think many automation users do a lot of research. I know I do! And if I thought there was a real advantage to these new more costly products... I would use them. But I haven't been all that impressed yet.
Title: Re: When is an upgrade to AHP going to happen
Post by: dave w on September 10, 2009, 11:46:45 AM

The best way to rid yourself of a resource... is to waste it. China has come a long way in recent years. There is no need to manufacture a product there... then write the software to use it...here. China has programmers and electrical engineers too. I would really doubt that the Chinese need any more than a product description for a new X10 product.

Yes I agree. But based on the problems and delays X10 had trying to launch the RF Icon (IR27A) I think they are strapped. The Beta test kept going into limbo because they had to juggle programmer resources between the IR27 and a customer OEM project.

I am hoping X10 is working on CM15A / AHP update and PC interface for the IR27, but am obviously pessimistic about the chances of seeing anything in the next couple of years. :-\
Title: Re: When is an upgrade to AHP going to happen
Post by: HA Dave on September 10, 2009, 04:57:23 PM
... based on the problems and delays X10 had trying to launch the RF Icon (IR27A) I think they are strapped.

Being that X10 is privately owned... it would be impossible for me to even guess. I would doubt if even upper level X10 employees could. But with the current condition of global finances.... this could be the best time ever to have a solid working relationship with a Chinese manufacture. Having a market for Chinese made goods... would seem to me to be of more value... than having American dollars.

I would guess.... we have a better chance of buying X10 products a decade from now... than we do of buying an American made automobile.
Title: Re: When is an upgrade to AHP going to happen
Post by: dave w on September 11, 2009, 12:49:17 PM

Being that X10 is privately owned... it would be impossible for me to even guess. I would doubt if even upper level X10 employees could. But with the current condition of global finances.... this could be the best time ever to have a solid working relationship with a Chinese manufacture.

X10 "owns" the Shenyang factory. Radio Shack used to "own" the Plug-N-Power factory across the road (even though X10 did all the design work, the factory making Plug-N-Power products was wholly independent of the X10 factory and corporation, which is why X10 would not take back warrenteed Radio Shack PNP modules but would take back RCA, Magnavox, Stanley re-branded modules). I suspect X10 keeps the overhead at this factory as tight as they keep the American end of the business. Whether they would want to "hire out" to Chinese Design/Engineering firms is a good question. I think they well realize they have a growing problem with continued use of dated X10 protocol but don't have the capital to do much about it.

I would guess.... we have a better chance of buying X10 products a decade from now... than we do of buying an American made automobile.
Yup Dave, I think you are right. Perhaps Government Motors will still be around making electric go-karts.  rofl
Title: Re: When is an upgrade to AHP going to happen
Post by: Dan Lawrence on October 10, 2009, 10:03:43 PM
13th of Never (the day after Johnny Mathis makes up with his girlfriend).

Look like AHP will be stuck with 3.228, just like Active Home was stuck with 1.32, as 1.42 was another buggy version X10 put out.   
Title: Re: When is an upgrade to AHP going to happen
Post by: Dan Lawrence on October 04, 2010, 09:08:43 PM
It's now October 4, 2010 and AHP is now at 3.271 or 3.285.   Who would have thought.
Title: Re: When is an upgrade to AHP going to happen
Post by: J.B. on October 04, 2010, 09:11:21 PM
It's nice to see the updates and new software we are now.  :)%
Title: Re: When is an upgrade to AHP going to happen
Post by: Mellowmark on October 04, 2010, 09:45:15 PM
Are you guys kidding is their really new software for AHP. 
Title: Re: When is an upgrade to AHP going to happen
Post by: J.B. on October 04, 2010, 10:19:25 PM
Several updates just over the last week for the new mobile plug-ins.
At AHP version 3.285 as of now.
Title: Re: When is an upgrade to AHP going to happen
Post by: systemdm on October 04, 2010, 11:39:43 PM
Just curious if there is a change log, bug fixes or release notes on what has been changed since 3.236.  If you are not using  iWatchMobile, ActivePhone or CM19A, is it worth upgrading?  I am now using a CM15A with X10 Commander.

Thanks
Title: Re: When is an upgrade to AHP going to happen
Post by: J.B. on October 04, 2010, 11:47:24 PM
The revision history on the x10 site states this:


 ActiveHome Pro
 

Version 3.285

    * X10NET.dll updated.
    * Updated to fully support iWatchMobile and ActivePhone.

Version 3.271

    * Added support for UX17A module for controlling IR devices.

Version 3.269

    * added support for the CM19A as a light RF transceiver.

Version 3.264

    * Fixed video recording creating dead files and occasionally failing to record.
    * Fix for hardware configuration dialog not properly accepting southern latitudes.
    * Added Windows 7 drivers and support.
Title: Re: When is an upgrade to AHP going to happen
Post by: Dan Lawrence on October 05, 2010, 01:37:56 PM
Strangely,  That leaves out versions 3.228 and jumps from 3.204 to 3.264  plus a lot of versions are not in the http://software.x10.com/pub/applications/activehome/.   
Title: Re: When is an upgrade to AHP going to happen
Post by: Noam on October 05, 2010, 04:09:56 PM
Does anyone have a list of the "Release Dates" of the various AHP versions and updates?
I'm trying to organize my "X10 Software" download folder, and it would help if I had version numbers to go with the file dates.
The truth is, though, that for many of them, they had a "generic" updater, that would just grab the latest version from the FTP site. I have a feeling several of the files I have are the same, based on the file sizes.
Title: Re: When is an upgrade to AHP going to happen
Post by: Dan Lawrence on October 05, 2010, 05:06:22 PM
There doesn't seem to be one available.  The X10 Software Repository has every file date the same and the x10 site's AHP Software History doesn't have date either.

Title: Re: When is an upgrade to AHP going to happen
Post by: nybuck on October 05, 2010, 07:56:09 PM
You may be able to get the rough history dates by searching through the forums...  I know there were big announcements for 3.271 and up...   :'
Title: Re: When is an upgrade to AHP going to happen
Post by: Noam on October 06, 2010, 09:01:54 AM
You may be able to get the rough history dates by searching through the forums...  I know there were big announcements for 3.271 and up...   :'

Thanks.
I was afraid that might be the answer. I'll have to go back and see what I can piece together.
Title: Re: When is an upgrade to AHP going to happen
Post by: Brian H on October 06, 2010, 10:15:10 AM
I see 3.285 is now on the download page.
http://www.x10.com/support/support_soft1.htm

The AHP history sheet now goes to 3.285
http://www.x10.com/support/rev_ahp.htm
Title: Re: When is an upgrade to AHP going to happen
Post by: Noam on October 06, 2010, 01:02:53 PM
I see 3.285 is now on the download page.
http://www.x10.com/support/support_soft1.htm

The AHP history sheet now goes to 3.285
http://www.x10.com/support/rev_ahp.htm

Interestingly enough - there are a few versions missing from their list:
3.283
3.228
3.236

It would also be nice if they would put the release date on that summary, as well. It wouldn't take much on their part.
I've gone back and tried to reconstruct it the best I can, but there are a number of dates I still don't have.
Title: Re: When is an upgrade to AHP going to happen
Post by: Dan Lawrence on October 15, 2010, 08:48:09 PM
Aside 3.236, the other 2 (3.283 and 3.228) are NOT listed in the Index of /pub/applications/activehome. http://software.x10.com/pub/applications/activehome/

Typical X10, don't put all the AHP versions in the same location so anyone interested has to search through 3 sections.
Title: Re: When is an upgrade to AHP going to happen
Post by: ErikP on December 13, 2010, 09:07:13 PM
Quote
Interestingly enough - there are a few versions missing from their list:
3.283
3.228
3.236

It would also be nice if they would put the release date on that summary, as well. It wouldn't take much on their part.
I've gone back and tried to reconstruct it the best I can, but there are a number of dates I still don't have.

3.283 is because I missed a bug, so it had a lifespan of about how long I slept that night before I fixed it and released 3.284.  The other versions are before my time, and so are not listed because those who came before me did not leave any notes for me to reconstruct their history and add to the version history.  I did the best I could to fill in the gap between the last update to the history and when I was asked to update it.

As for adding dates to the history page I will ask our web guys to look into it.  They do the page formatting etc. for the history, so its really up to them.

in the mean time though, here are some dates from our internal developers notes.  They may not be 100% complete for all version numbers since this list is just for our reference and not generally cleaned up or ever intended to be seen by anyone.  These are build numbers, which we use across all products, so not all of these are ActiveHome Pro releases, they might be a plug-in, or another product completely.  Hope this helps you clean up your folder :)

[[11/13/2010 S]]
299
   
[[11/13/2010 S]]
298

[[11/10/2010 W]]
297

[[11/3/2010 W]]
296

[[11/2/2010 T]]
295

[[10/30/2010 F]]
294

[[10/22/2010 F]]
293
      
[[10/21/2010 R]]
292
   
[[10/20/2010 W]]
291
   
[[10/8/2010 F]] 11:00pm
290
   
[[10/7/2010 R]] 7:00pm
289

[[10/6/2010 W]] 7:00pm
288
   
[[10/6/2010 W]] 2:00pm
287
   
[[10/5/2010 T]] 2:00am
286
   
[[10/1/2010 F]]  11:59pm
285

[[9/30/2010 R]]  11:59pm
283
   
[[9/27/2010 M]]
281

[[9/23/2010 R]]
280
Title: Re: When is an upgrade to AHP going to happen
Post by: HA Dave on December 13, 2010, 09:27:15 PM
I would like to see some of the older versions.... particularly 3.228 (dated 5-09-2008) re-posted for download. We know this older version works well for XP. Maybe it could be called an XP version.
Title: Re: When is an upgrade to AHP going to happen
Post by: ErikP on December 13, 2010, 10:01:46 PM
Is stuff not working in XP?

I'll ask the web guys about linking to older installers.  Most of it is still on the public web servers, just none of the web pages link to them anymore.
Title: Re: When is an upgrade to AHP going to happen
Post by: HA Dave on December 13, 2010, 10:06:31 PM
Is stuff not working in XP?

The old XP setups do work (and there are MANY old dust collector PCs out there too). And those of us that could lose a Hard Drive or whatever... would like to know that the old software is still there.
Title: Re: When is an upgrade to AHP going to happen
Post by: ErikP on December 13, 2010, 10:27:51 PM
I personally like to have access to the full version history of software I purchase too :)  I was just concerned you meant the more recent software is broken on XP :)
Title: Re: When is an upgrade to AHP going to happen
Post by: HA Dave on December 14, 2010, 01:03:28 AM
I was just concerned you meant the more recent software is broken on XP

I haven't tried the newer versions on my setup. I would like to get a new android phone as well as upgrade my HA PC. But for now I have a 12 year old former 98 P2 PC [now running XP] that has been running 24/7 for the last four years running my home setup. I have another old dust collector just waiting to take the old PC's place. So for now... I haven't made much in changes.
Title: Re: When is an upgrade to AHP going to happen
Post by: ErikP on December 17, 2010, 08:20:53 PM
Good news on 2 of these fronts.

I just got done speaking with the web guys.  Starting Monday they are going to start adding release dates (for builds where we still have records of the release dates) to the version history, and future releases will have dates on them.

This may take a bit longer since there is a lot of anchor tags to type out and test...  but they said they will also start adding links the older installers in the version history page.  A small disclaimer though...  a few of the installer files are no longer hosted, so the initial release of ActiveHome PRO for example, 142, will not be available.  Also we have to keep the economical operation of our servers in mind so there may, someday, arise the need to retire some of these versions.  We will give you some notice before we take down access and retire those links.  I don't think we will need to retire anything for the foreseeable future though.

Are there any other specific version you want us to make available?  I know Dave wants 228, but I can give the web guys a list of builds to make available at a higher priority than the rest if you have preferences.
Title: When is an upgrade to AHP 3.310 going to happen
Post by: Dan Lawrence on May 30, 2011, 07:18:43 PM
I'm using 3.310 as everything following is buggy.  When will the programers use what's in 3.310 as the starting point?  3.310 seems to be the 21st Century version of 3.228 that was in the end of the 20th Century.  A version that doesn't drive users crazy.  X10 and AHP are best when you set it up with modules and timers and AHP does the rest.
Title: Re: When is an upgrade to AHP going to happen
Post by: tgibbs99 on March 13, 2012, 11:02:56 AM
I am calling on X-10 to make the AHP software, which currently quite bug-ridden, open-source, so the user community can fix and improve it.  Please let x-10 know you support this plan.

Tim
Title: Re: When is an upgrade to AHP going to happen
Post by: Dan Lawrence on March 13, 2012, 12:54:37 PM
Since X10USA is a corporation I doubt it will never be open source.   If a new version (post 3.318) is based on 3.310 it should be bug free.