X10 Community Forum
🖥️ActiveHome Pro => ActiveHome Pro General => Topic started by: dbemowsk on December 27, 2009, 09:23:19 PM
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I have some dimming (WS12A) and some relay type (XPS3-IW) switches installed. These switches respond to commands sent from remotes or from AHP directly and turn on and off accordingly. When turned on from AHP or a remote, AHP shows that the device is on or off as it should. My problem comes in when I turn these switches on from the switch directly. When I do this, AHP does not indicate that the switch is on. Is this the way these switches are designed to work? Do I need to upgrade to a different kind of switch that will update AHP when the switch is controlled directly?
I don't see the point of these if they will not update the software. I am writing a PHP database driven application using the SDK that will allow me to check the status of lights and other things in my house from anywhere. The application currently will show me the layout of my house with lighting and appliances that are on or off. See my alpha version here http://66.190.8.188:8088/index.php (http://66.190.8.188:8088/index.php). The issue I have with this is that the SDK only shows me what AHP knows to be on or off. If my wife decides to go turn on the light above the sink using the switch, it does not notify AHP that the light is on, thus my application will not show this.
Any help on this is appreciated.
Dan Bemowski
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X10 switches are one-way devices. They receive a signal and act on it. What they cannot do is report back to let AHP know that they have been turned on manually. Someone here will almost certainly tell you the model numbers of the two-way modules which you'll need for your project.
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That's the way AHP is written. I just walked into the bedroom and turned the lights on by pushing the button on the Wall Switch module. I walked back to the computer where AHP was open. AHP showed the wall switch as off. Unless you use a two-way module, AHP does not show status of a module that it did not turn on.
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X10 switches are one-way devices. They receive a signal and act on it. What they cannot do is report back to let AHP know that they have been turned on manually. Someone here will almost certainly tell you the model numbers of the two-way modules which you'll need for your project.
I have seen some X10 stuff that claims to be 2-way, but have not tried any as of yet. Can you suggest any switch devices/modules that will update AHP when activated manually?
Dan
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I have not seen any X10 or X10Pro switches or modules that are two way presently being made. The LM14A Lamp and AM14A Appliance modules where discontinued. As where the X10Pro PAM21 Appliance and PLM21 Lamp Modules.
I know the Smathome Insteon Protocol switches and modules are two way and can have an X10 Address programed in to them. My earlier revision SwitchLinc relay sends an X10 on and off when locally actuated. To the Primary X10 Address I programmed in to it.
Few things with those switches.
Much more costly.
Need a real Neutral Power Connection in the switch box.
The dimmer versions handle dimming differently. They do not send the stream of bright or dim commands when the local controls are used or the Extended X10 commands used by the two way modules.
When the paddle is released it sends a %of Dim command that X10 does not understand. The dimmer switch does sent an on or off at 0% and 100% with the local paddle. So my test Insteon SwitchLinc Dimmer did register a on or off in AHP when locally toggled, but not if it was locally dimmed.
I am not sure if the latest revision Lamp and Appliance Modules in the Insteon line now send status change when local control toggles them on.
ACT use to make some two way switches but I have not seen them lately.
Since two way devices have a power line transmitter in them. They also can absorb power line signals. So if your setup was marginal but not showing communications problems. Changing to two way devices could deteriorate the setup and you may notice it.
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Leviton also makes some high-end two-way X10 compatible switches, but they are about $80 a pop. That is clearly out of the range of most people who choose to go with X10.
Jeff
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OK, I did some searches on the insteon line and I found their ICON series which seems to be their cheaper series of switches. Has anyone used these? Are they much cheaper in quality from their higher priced products? Are they 2-way, and do the dimmers report % of dim?
Thanks for all the great help.
Dan
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OK, I did some searches on the insteon line and I found their ICON series which seems to be their cheaper series of switches. Has anyone used these? Are they much cheaper in quality from their higher priced products? Are they 2-way, and do the dimmers report % of dim?
Thanks for all the great help.
Dan
I have and use the ICON switches and they do report correctly in AHP. When manually pressed, they send their X10 address with ON or OFF along the power lines. I have not used the dimmer versions.
As for quality, a few of the ones I have no longer work manually (ON & OFF) after about a year. They still work with PLC signals. I have not yet had the need or desire to remove and open one to check the switches; since the failed ones are currently where I only need automated lighting.
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Basically the Icon has less features. Like no Brightness Bargraph; no adjustable ramp rate; 30 Insteon Link database not 417; 1 year warranty; no X10 Scenes only an X10 Primary Address. Lower wattage rating for the maximum load. Single LED indicates it is Off. Goes out when turned on. LED is Amber. Insteon is bright white Bargraph and you can change the light pipes. I use dark blue or frosted myself.
Smarthome recently revised both the Icon and Insteon switches.
I have a below Revision 5 {where redesign was implemented} Icon Dimmer switch.
Added an X10 address and used for test only Smarthome Manager Essentials with 1132CU interface. To watch the switches operation.
It sends a %of dim when not set to 0% or 100%. At 0% it sends the X10 off and at 100% the X10 On.
I doubt the revisions above 5.0 handle X10 any differently than the older ones.
There maybe a few other differences in above 5.0 that I am not aware of.
Also where you have your WS12A switches. You would need a Neutral Power Wire in the switch box for the Icon or Insteon switches to work.
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Puck; There was a known problem with the earlier tact switches in both the Icon and Insteon switches. Smarthome extended coverage for the switches in a known manufacturered time frame. Replacements where being provided as warranty even if the normal 2 year for Insteon or 1 year for Icons was past.
The latest ones have a updated tact switch.
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Is it true that X10 PRO devices can be polled for status? I know that they would not be able to automatically tell AHP that they were turned on when manually activated, but if I could create a macro that would run every so often to poll the status of a device and if polling shows that for example B5 is on, then send a B5 ON command to update AHP with it's status. If this is possible, I can keep my current X10 PRO switches and go with more Insteon devices in the future.
As always, I appreciate all the input given from the brain trust within this forum.
Dan
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I believe the X10Pro modules are also one way. So there would be no way to get an answer from a Status Request.
If you XPS3-IW was two way it would report a local change in state.
I have one and will double check it.
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What command do I use to check status? I have one installed and can test it in a few seconds if I know what I have to do.
Dan
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I don't use AHP much these days.
I believe it is a poll to the devices address for its status.
In my Smarthome Essentials with the 1132CU interface. A status request to my X10 RR501 that is two way got me an off responce.
The XPS3-IW got no reply.
I also tried it in AHP calling it a two way module. Again no action with a poll to the devices address.
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The only thing you can poll in AHP is the RR501 Transceiver which has a Poll button, but you never get a reply. It's most likely a tiny bug in AHP's programming.
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The best way to do what you want is to let the controller do all the switching..
And use wired wall controllers where the switches would go. That way every time you
use them they send a command out to the controller to do so. that will update the
system as to what state each light is at
It will take some rewire and device change out.
Although if your system is stable it could greatly enhance it.
With the ability to controll up to four addresses from each switch
location
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Well, what I think I am going to do is use the switches I currently have in less used places where it won't matter as much and get some higher end switches for the main part of the house. I am currently working on setting up BVC to work with my setup, but I will get back to installing those switches soon enough.
I want to thank all the people in here for the excellent input on this topic.
Dan