X10 Community Forum
🔌General Home Automation => Automating Your House => Topic started by: Brandt on January 04, 2010, 01:59:32 PM
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Obviously, I know a lamp module goes to a lamp, etc...
But what is a quick way to find out the amperage and wattage that your device needs/produces in order to make sure you are choosing a suitable filter or module?
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One thing you can do is, see if the device has a ratings label on it.
If it is rated in watts there are formulas to figure out typical amps from the wattage rating.
Another factor is what the device is you want to filter. Some things like a washer with electronic controls; has a motor in it that will draw starting current that is higher than the running current.
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look for the amperage or divide the wattage by the voltage measured and that will give you the amperage
v= volts
I= Amps
P= Watts
P/v=I
v*I=P
If you don't have a meter use 110 volts instead of 120 so you end up with a high estimate. You want to make sure the filter is rated over and above what it will be filtering.
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Finally!!!
Someone else who uses "P", "I" and "V" for the variables. I was starting to think I was the only one who learned it that way.
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Finally!!!
Someone else who uses "P", "I" and "V" for the variables. I was starting to think I was the only one who learned it that way.
What, don't tell me Ohm's Law is now politically incorrect too? ;)
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That's the way I learned Ohm's Law, too. Just recognize that this simple equation is for purely resistive loads. Any inductive loads (transformers, ballasts, motors) will have a much higher and prolonged initial inrush current. That's why you usually see labels with multiple ratings--the highest amperage capacity being for resistive loads (incandescent lamps, resistive heaters), and ratings for motors usually expressed in hp.
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That's the way I learned Ohm's Law, too.
Well I heard in order to make the smart grid work... Congress was going to appeal Omh's law. Free Ohms for everyone!!!
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Dad was frustrated by the neighborhood kids helping themselves to our little fruit orchard.
So, he strung a length of “guy wire” around the perimeter and attached a couple of signs:
Caution!!!
20,000 Ohms!”
It cured the poaching...but a week later a concerned citizen called city hall.
The town cop was sent out to enforce the ordinance against dangerous electric fences. rofl
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:)%
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This is sort of a no brainer question....
Can x10 modules act as filters? I mean everyone says to put a filter on noisy or signal sucking equipment....but what if you put and appliance module on it...would that work the same?
For example, they say to plug your computer equipment into the plug on the back of the CM11a. Does the computer equipment still need to go through a filter before being plugged into the CM11a, like the filter piggy-backing on the CM11a?
I have a couple mini-fridges in the house as well as a full sized one. Could an appliance module be used instead of a 5A or 10A filter?
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No an X10 module will not act as a noise filter in the X10 signal range.
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That makes sense, seeing how people say to put an x10 filter between a T12 flour light and the appliance module.
So when you guys filter your CFL cans, you can still control them with x10 I assume.
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Filters are used to kill signals from devices (like computers and certain cell phone chargers) that block x10 signals. Modules (light and appliance) DO NOT filter.
An appliance module can be used to control a florescent floor lamp as it does not dim. Lamp modules control lights.
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If the filter is between the module and the load it should work. If the filter gets between the module and the AC power to it. Then the X10 signal never gets to the module to control it.
I have a filter on my UPS AC Line Cord. Not because it makes noise but the line filters in it; absorb X10 signals as noise which it is not.
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ok I got an XTBM and WOW my powerlines are hostile.
even with the XTBM and maxicontroller plugged into the same outlet I only got likeX1.00 or X0.99 on the readout.
At the same outlet, just plugging the XTBM in the wall it read X0.03 (there is a signalinc repeater)
In the master bedroom the XTBM couldn't even pass the self-test when plugged in with the power strip containing the tv, dvr, etc
In my bedroom, the voltage dropped from X0.63 to X0.03 when the tv was plugged in, and back up to X0.49 with a filter.
yikes....
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With no signal issues. I believe the Smarthome Repeater is between 5.00 and 6.00.
In my XTBM review I found one branch circuit that has 1.45 volts on one outlet. It is a known fact that two way modules can absorb signals. Well I have four Insteon Modules and an RR501 on that branch. Removing them as a test got me closer to 8.00 volts from my XTB-IIR.
I also found a rechargeable flashlight that absorbed signals.
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let the hunt begin ;D
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even with the XTBM and maxicontroller plugged into the same outlet I only got likeX1.00 or X0.99 on the readout.
At the same outlet, just plugging the XTBM in the wall it read X0.03 (there is a signalinc repeater)
In the master bedroom the XTBM couldn't even pass the self-test when plugged in with the power strip containing the tv, dvr, etc
In my bedroom, the voltage dropped from X0.63 to X0.03 when the tv was plugged in, and back up to X0.49 with a filter.
Yeah, using the XTBM makes one realize how many "natural enemies" the X10 signal has in a modern day home.
As I have expounded many times; get a blow torch repeater (aka XTBIIR), and 99% of your problems are solved. Buy a filter and solve the remaining 1%.
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Well I have a signalinc repeater, but the signal upstairs is weak sauce, and the signal at the CM11a is almost nothing. I should start by filtering the TVs and computers.
What are the typical filters you guys recommend for power strips containing A/V equipment, Computer equipment, or a mix of both?
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Smarthome's 1626 5 Amp FilterLinc and 1626-10 10 Amp FilterLinc are good. Also have a pass through outlet on the front for unfiltered AC.
The ACT AF120 15 amp filter.
X10Pro XPPF is a 5 amp but has issues if you get too close to the 5 amps. I tested one with a set of incandescent lights. 500 watts that is about 4.2 amps. It overheated and the internal coils started to melt.
Granddaddy of them all. X10Pro XPF 20 amp wire in filter and it is large
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Well without knowing the amperage, what is the typical filter you put on power strips with these sorts of devices, just to play it safe?
The reason I ask, is because I am at work and do not know the amperage. I also work down the street from the Smarthome factory store, so I can pick things up whenever I like. :)%
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I have the 10 amp FilterLinc on my APC BX1000 1000VA UPS and a 5 amp FilterLinc on my power strip for my LCD TV;VCR [remenber VCRs?]; DVD player and Logitech Z-2300 speakers.
Unless your home entertainment system is huge. 10 amps would maybe over rated but a safe choice.
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Smarthome's 1626 5 Amp FilterLinc and 1626-10 10 Amp FilterLinc are good. Also have a pass through outlet on the front for unfiltered AC.
The ACT AF120 15 amp filter.
X10Pro XPPF is a 5 amp but has issues if you get too close to the 5 amps. I tested one with a set of incandescent lights. 500 watts that is about 4.2 amps. It overheated and the internal coils started to melt.
Granddaddy of them all. X10Pro XPF 20 amp wire in filter and it is large
would the XPF be used for the a/c,furnace,rain-8 sprinkler system,refrigerator,and garage door?
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The XPF is a very large filter. Needs to be in a three gang electrical box. I have not seen any reports of garage door openers killing X10, but I guess Murphy could always strike. ;D Data sheet on the XPF is on the X10Pro web site under Installation Instructions.
http://www.x10pro.com/
The ACT120 15 amp maybe for refrigerators and devices with high starting currents.
http://www.act-solutions.com/PCC/pdfs/PCCInst/af120.pdf
AC? Plug in or whole home? Whole home would be more like see if you can filter the controls and not the whole main feed.
Oh I forgot some use the Leviton 6287 5 amp wire in between the X10 modules load output and the load itself.
Have you had a chance to look at Jeff Volp's Troubleshooting tutorials? May give you a start on where to look first. Not every device in a home has to have a filter on it.
http://jvde.us/x10_troubleshooting.htm
Uncle Phil at ACT also has some good data.
http://www.act-solutions.com/PCC/uncle.htm
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I picked up a 5-amp and a 10-amp filterlinc on my lunch break (that was fast huh ;) ) we shall see the results when i get home...
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Sounds good to me.
With the XTBM you can watch signals as you connect and disconnect items and it will give you data on what needs to be addressed.
I know it showed me why my one branch circuit was 1.4 volts from an XTB-IIR. Many signal absorbing two way modules on one circuit.
I am sure that is also why my older repeater had issues with that circuit.
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Does anyone know if the "Kill A Watt" can measure amps?
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Yes.
My Basic P4400 Kill A Watt Meter can measure Line Volts; Amps; Watts; VA; Hz; PF; and KWH. There are more high end Kill A Watt Meters that can do even more.
Current up to 15 Amps. Only thing I have noticed with mine. Is the maximum current is 15 Amps. So some of my tests with power used by modules is not to accurate, but we are talking maybe 0.05 amps here.
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I picked up a 5-amp and a 10-amp filterlinc on my lunch break (that was fast huh ;) ) we shall see the results when i get home...
ok now I have filters on all the power strips containing a/v equipment and computer equipment in my home. The signal is a little better, but barely. The bathrooms get 0.25v or less...The bedrooms are ~1.5v....
...and the main problem is where my CM11a is connected it receives either 0.01v or 0.00v in x10 signals! it is located out in the garage on above the workbench (as that is where my server is)
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Obviously, I know a lamp module goes to a lamp, etc...
But what is a quick way to find out the amperage and wattage that your device needs/produces in order to make sure you are choosing a suitable filter or module?
So besides the kill a watt, I was looking for something like this:
http://www.reliancecontrols.com/ProductDetail.aspx?THP103
Although it only measures up to 15amps.
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The Kill A Watt also only measures to 15 amps and 1875 watts. 125Vx15A=1875W
If you don't need voltage; frequency; power factor; VA or want a reading of accumulated power use of a device over time in KWH. The one you are looking at will give you the current draw and the wattage. Also looks quite compact and easy to move around.