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🖥️ActiveHome Pro => ActiveHome Pro General => Topic started by: mcbbcn on June 06, 2010, 05:29:13 PM

Title: Is there a way that a way than UM506 can close a garage door but not open it?
Post by: mcbbcn on June 06, 2010, 05:29:13 PM
Hi all,  >!

I'm planning to have my PC control the garage door.  I assume that I just need the Active Home Pro software and the UM506.  The first question is: Do I need anything else?

The second question is:  I would like for X10 to only be able to close my garage door, not open it.  In the future, I may consider allow X10 to open it, but for now, I just would like to be able to close it. How would you do that?

Just for context, I use the Liftmaster Elite Series 3800 opener: http://www.liftmaster.com/consumerweb/products/pflResidentialJackshaft.htm

Thanks for your help,

Miquel
Title: Re: Is there a way that a way than UM506 can close a garage door but not open it?
Post by: Brian H on June 06, 2010, 06:14:57 PM
I downloaded the manual for the opener and you may have a problem.

The wall mounted controller looks like it is an intelligent controller. Power and control signals are all on one two wire pair. Using a UM506 to simulate a simple switch push may not work. If there is power on the wires you will short the supply out.

I just downloaded the Wall Mounted Controllers Manual and the sales page indicates it uses 315MHz RF. So the two wires from the opener may just be power or have signals on it also and the RF is for things like remote lights.
Title: Re: Is there a way that a way than UM506 can close a garage door but not open it?
Post by: dave w on June 06, 2010, 07:53:19 PM
The easiest way to prevent Universal Module from raising the garage door is to wire a magnetic window switch in series with the Universal Module which is wired to short across the lifters wired wall switch switch (more on this, I saw Brian's comment that your wired switch is a multi control). Position the magnet for the window switch so they line up only when the door is open. Thus when the door is closed the window switch is open and the Universal Module can not short across the wall switch.

Our garage door opener also has multi control function, however it works by varying current levels back to the opener. So a dead short is the opener activation signal. Higher resistance shorts result in garage light control and "Vacation" control. This does not mean the Lift Master works the same way,  but since it is a fail safe way of operating the wired switch circuit in the event an owner likes his old door bell style button, or wants to use one of the "universal" electronic combination keypads, I bet it does. 
Title: Re: Is there a way that a way than UM506 can close a garage door but not open it?
Post by: mcbbcn on June 08, 2010, 12:12:35 AM
Brian and Dave,

Thanks for your help.  I have a couple of questions.

One for Brian:

What would be the best way to resolve the problem that you are calling out?

A couple of questions for Dave:

Where do you get a magnetic window switch to connect to the UM?  Do you have a part number or company that sell them?

How do you vary the current levels?  Does the UM do that?

Thanks again for all your help,

M.
Title: Re: Is there a way that a way than UM506 can close a garage door but not open it?
Post by: Brian H on June 08, 2010, 06:30:00 AM
dave w; The manual does not show any override push button switch. Though they may not be making that general knowledge. In fact they say if you want added remote positions. Use their RF wall mounted controller, as only one master controller can be used.

To vary the current. You would have to pick a resistor to put in series with one of the UM506s output terminals and the wire going to the openers control. The resistance maybe be a trial and error to get the proper current.
If it acts like dave w.'s does. The you would not have to use a current limiting resistor.

If it does not use different currents for functions and there is only power on the pair of wires. I am not sure exactly how to do it. A hack of the controllers buttons maybe or a less invasive added RF remote and hack its buttons to use the UM506.

You can get magnetic switches from many electronic suppliers and security dealers. I don't have any links off hand but know others will give some to you.
Title: Re: Is there a way that a way than UM506 can close a garage door but not open it?
Post by: dave w on June 08, 2010, 01:58:14 PM
A couple of questions for Dave:

Where do you get a magnetic window switch to connect to the UM?  Do you have a part number or company that sell them?

How do you vary the current levels?  Does the UM do that?

Brian has pretty much answered these questions but:

http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/MS-14/STANDARD-MAGNETIC-PROXIMITY-SWITCH//1.html

Radio Shark used to carry these but it seems all they do is sell phones now days.

As far as the current limiting question: As Brian said: IF your lifter's multi function wall controller works same as ours (Linear brand) you would not need any current limiting The opener understands a dead short across it's "wall switch" terminal screws means open/close the door. Something less than dead short means to do something else.

However based on what Brian found in the manual, you may not be able to use a standard momentary push button type of switch. Maybe a call to Liftmaster is in order.
Title: Re: Is there a way that a way than UM506 can close a garage door but not open it?
Post by: mcbbcn on June 08, 2010, 06:26:36 PM
Dave,

Thanks a lot for the link.  I really appreciate it.

M.
Title: Re: Is there a way that a way than UM506 can close a garage door but not open it?
Post by: mcbbcn on June 08, 2010, 06:27:45 PM
Brian,

I've never hacked a garage door button.  Sorry to ask this. :angel: but could you give me some directions about how you would do it?

Thanks a tone for your help,

Miquel
Title: Re: Is there a way that a way than UM506 can close a garage door but not open it?
Post by: dave w on June 08, 2010, 08:56:40 PM
dave w; The manual does not show any override push button switch. Though they may not be making that general knowledge. In fact they say if you want added remote positions. Use their RF wall mounted controller, as only one master controller can be used.
mcbbcn too:

Yeah, I just looked at mcbbcn Liftmaster model and the description says the wall switch or "Smart Control Panel" gives system status messages on the LCD screen, so they have to be sending some type of digital signal down the wires to the panel.

In other words you can't use the magnetic switch or the Universal Module unless you wire them in to a hacked remote control or perhaps hack the Liftmaster "Smart Control Panel" and wire the Universal Module and magnetic switch directly across the mechanical switch terminals on the PC board. This is what Brian suggested in his earlier response. Sorry for stepping on you Brian.
Title: Re: Is there a way that a way than UM506 can close a garage door but not open it?
Post by: mcbbcn on June 08, 2010, 11:16:36 PM
Hi Dave,

No worries for stepping into it.

I was asking Brian earlier (if you know how to do it, please chime in), how to hack the garage door buttons?  It is just a simple push to the button, but somethings can look so simple and be so complicated.   :)

I would love to know how to hack those buttons.  I've never done it, so if you or Brian have some instructions about how to do it, it would be wonderful.

Thanks for your help,

M.
Title: Re: Is there a way that a way than UM506 can close a garage door but not open it?
Post by: Brian H on June 09, 2010, 06:45:04 AM
I am looking at the accessories page for the 3800 to see what I can find out.

Chart is not too clear on the 902LM panel and if it is used with the 398LM controller or in place of it.
http://www.liftmaster.com/consumerweb/pages/accessoriesmodeldetail.aspx?modelId=749
I also found it interesting in the 902LMs manual. It shows a bell button across the main controllers terminals, but again is not clear if the controller shown is the one in the 3800.

There are also a few RF remotes you maybe able to add a set of wires across it push button to use a UM506.

Not being as adventurous as some here. I personally would not try to modify the 398LM Intelligent Controller to connect a UM506 to its buttons.  ;)

A call to their support line asking if a simple bell button across the controllers terminals would work couldn't hurt.
Title: Re: Is there a way that a way than UM506 can close a garage door but not open it?
Post by: mcbbcn on June 09, 2010, 01:31:20 PM
Hi Brian,

Actually, the panel that came with the lift is this one:

http://liftmaster.org/consumerweb/pages/accessoriesmodeldetail.aspx?modelId=842

And the remote control is this one:

http://liftmaster.org/consumerweb/pages/accessoriesmodeldetail.aspx?modelId=840

Thanks for your help,

M.
Title: Re: Is there a way that a way than UM506 can close a garage door but not open it?
Post by: Brandt on June 09, 2010, 03:20:25 PM
I didn't read all the responses so sorry If i'm repeating here, but use two universal modules wired in series, set them to momentary, and create a macro in AHP for opening that has to send the signal to both uni mods within about 2 seconds. This will ensure that not a lone x10 command will open the door.
Title: Re: Is there a way that a way than UM506 can close a garage door but not open it?
Post by: Brian H on June 09, 2010, 03:25:14 PM
Brandt; Do I remember you having a liftmaster opener and using just contacts  {two modules in your setup for safety} across the wires from the opener to the control box?
Title: Re: Is there a way that a way than UM506 can close a garage door but not open it?
Post by: Brandt on June 09, 2010, 05:25:56 PM
Brandt; Do I remember you having a liftmaster opener and using just contacts  {two modules in your setup for safety} across the wires from the opener to the control box?

No that wasn't me
Title: Re: Is there a way that a way than UM506 can close a garage door but not open it?
Post by: Brian H on June 09, 2010, 06:16:43 PM
OK Thanks for the information.
Maybe time for me to try an advanced search, I am always telling others to use.  ;D
Title: Re: Is there a way that a way than UM506 can close a garage door but not open it?
Post by: mcbbcn on June 10, 2010, 11:58:25 PM
Brian and Dave,

I don't really know what I'm doing which it is very dangerous.   -:)

I got my electrical tester and I visited my garage door.  I found out that behind the smart control panel, it has a red and white/red cable that goes to the garage door opener to a couple of sockets denominated as "door control".

I'm using the tester YF-602.  If you do a search in the following page for YF-602, you will find it: http://www.fabletybertoni.com/catalogo/i01/I01.htm

I checked the voltage for continuity and against the two cables behind the smart control cable and it indicated 15 continuous volts.

Now, it is when it gets interesting because I don't really know what I'm doing but I hope you can tell me.  My tester has 3 sections DCV, ACV and DCA.  I set my tester to DCA.  Within DCA there is a position for 2m, 20m and 200m.  I set the position to 2m, and I touch the two metallic screws behind the smart panel where the red and white/red cables are connected.  I touched them with the black and red tester cables and it opened the door and I touch them again, it close the door.  Then, I set the tester to 20m and I did the same and it open and then it close the door.

Can you tell me if there is a solution based on what just shared with you?

Thanks for your help,

M.
Title: Re: Is there a way that a way than UM506 can close a garage door but not open it?
Post by: mcbbcn on June 11, 2010, 12:00:49 AM
Here you can see a better picture of the tester I'm using:

http://www.sensorconsult.com/produkt/male/bilder/s10o.jpg

You will notice in the lower left a section called DCA and it has the 2m, 20m and 200m settings.

M.
Title: Re: Is there a way that a way than UM506 can close a garage door but not open it?
Post by: Brian H on June 11, 2010, 06:32:52 AM
You connected a meter set to ma across the voltage and not in series with it?
Ampmeters go in series with the load. Putting them across the load or voltage source is a short circuit.
Did the meter read overload? My guess is No.

The meter in the ma setting acted like a very low resistance short when placed across the load {controller}.

It looks like Dave's push button across the wires maybe an undocumented action on your opener.

You maybe able to just connect the UM506 across the wires to make it go up and down.
Adding the magnetic switch so it only can only close it would also be possible.
Title: Re: Is there a way that a way than UM506 can close a garage door but not open it?
Post by: mcbbcn on June 11, 2010, 07:27:13 PM
OK, I will get the UM506.  Thanks for all your help!

M.
Title: Re: Is there a way that a way than UM506 can close a garage door but not open it?
Post by: mcbbcn on June 11, 2010, 09:08:38 PM
 Hi Brian and Dave >!

I just ordered Home Automation Pro, CM15, UM506, a "normally closed" magnetic switch (so electricity will flow when the magnet is not there or when the garage opens".

Now, I have a question about the resistor.  What kind of resistor do I need to get to have a Dave's small low voltage coming out of the UM506 to the Smart Panel?

By the way, I'm planning to install the UM506 in the following way.  I assume two cables will come out of the UM506.  Let's call them Cable A and Cable B to be clear.

- Cable A will be connected to one of the contacts behind the Smart panel
- Cable B will have a couple of things connected in series:
                1. Closest to the UM506, I will connect the magnetic switch will be closed (i.e. electricity flowing) when one of the magnets moves (i.e. when the garage door moves)
                2. Then, I will connect one of the magnetic cables to one of the resistor terminals
                3. From the remaining resistor terminal, I will have a cable going to the other contact behind the Smart Panel

Does the above design sound good to you?   :-)

M.
Title: Re: Is there a way that a way than UM506 can close a garage door but not open it?
Post by: Brian H on June 12, 2010, 06:17:37 AM
Since your ammeter across the two controller wires triggered the up and down. I would say no resistor needed.
The UM506 does not supply any voltage or current. It acts like an X10 actuated switch. When it is triggered it will close its output terminals and trigger the opener though the magnetic switch to limit operations to door position.
Title: Re: Is there a way that a way than UM506 can close a garage door but not open it?
Post by: mcbbcn on June 12, 2010, 12:16:17 PM
Thanks a lot Brian!  I really appreciate it!
Title: Re: Is there a way that a way than UM506 can close a garage door but not open it?
Post by: mcbbcn on June 12, 2010, 12:39:42 PM
Brian,

Sorry to ask so many questions.  I feel I'm close to have this one figured out.

When you activate the UM506, would you send an on and off signal to the relay?  I assume that you would not leave it on (i.e. close circuit) all the time, right?

M.
Title: Re: Is there a way that a way than UM506 can close a garage door but not open it?
Post by: mcbbcn on June 12, 2010, 12:48:28 PM
Brian,

No need to answer this one.  I found out that the UM506 has a momentary and a continuous function, so I will be using the momentary function like a door bell.

Thanks for all your help,

M.
Title: Re: Is there a way that a way than UM506 can close a garage door but not open it?
Post by: Brian H on June 12, 2010, 01:35:51 PM
Yes just send an On and have it set to Momentary on the Left Side Switch and Relay only on the Right Side Switch. If you also want to hear the beeper as a confirmation of the module receiving the command. You can use the Sounder & Relay choice.
Title: Re: Is there a way that a way than UM506 can close a garage door but not open it?
Post by: mcbbcn on June 12, 2010, 06:03:05 PM
 :)%

Cool!  Thank you!