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💬General Category => Mac/Linux & Open Source and the X10 Home => Topic started by: NESter on October 24, 2010, 11:48:01 AM

Title: looking for advice getting started
Post by: NESter on October 24, 2010, 11:48:01 AM
I'm interested in getting started with X10 hacking.  Currently the only X10 equipment I own is a wireless security system.  I see that finally it is possible to monitor and activate such a system, at least from a windoze PC.  I have some interest in playing around with home automation and such as well.  But first and foremost I would like to be able to interface to the RF security modules to see which doors are open, etc.  I don't currently have any interest in getting into cameras, but I don't discount the possibility that I may want to play with them in the future.  I have been wanting a way to monitor contact closure from Linux, and have considered the velleman kits, but I am thinking that a door/window sensor will perform the same function without needing to run any wires.  If I can really set up a "binary sensor network" using X10 door/window sensors, that would really kick some serious butt.  I have visions of interfacing to the buzzers on my washer and dryer so my computer can notify me when I need to switch the wash.

What I have to work with other than my existing wireless security system...  I have a server running fc5.  I have another GNU/Linux based desktop running FC9 which also has an XP VMWARE box running on it.  I have a spare "laptop" which is has Vista Home on it (quoted because the screen hinge is busted such that I avoid folding/moving the machine when at all possible).  I figure I have several options...  I can use activehome on the "laptop" as intended, but that's not quite ideal due to windoze being unreliable and far less convenient to operate remotely.  Possibly, I could run activehome on the VMWARE box and control it remotely without needing the "laptop" (both Linux boxes are 24/7 and already perform important functions in my home).  Or I could try to get an interface that I can control natively from Linux.  That brings in the possibility for Perl scripting (my preferred language). 

Features I am looking to implement:
Monitor security modules for events (door open/close, etc)
Control lamp modules and other X10 devices for automation
Custom responses to events
-send notifications of events via email/SMS
-activate X10 modules as a result of X10 inputs or other sources like command line or web interfaces

For example, I want to be able to have my computer SMS me when the alarm is tripped.  As mentioned above, I would love to be able to use door/window sensors as "contact closure" detectors...  I could then implement anything from detecting the closure of a relay when my washing machine buzzes to detecting that the water level in my hot tub is low and should be topped off.  these events would trigger a notification.

Basically, could someone who has played with this stuff please review my ideas and tell me what is feasible using current software?  Obviously there has been work in a CM15A driver for Linux and given enough time and patience I could write it ALL from scratch.  When I win the lottery, I can take that on.  I would love to have a better starting point than simply a device driver.  The realistic possibility is that I could use activehome for the short term and play with an open-source interface in my free time until I can implement all of the features I want.  Unless someone already has something that works.  Please advise, and thanks for any input.
Title: Re: looking for advice getting started
Post by: pconroy on October 24, 2010, 12:25:58 PM
I run Linux on all my home servers too.  As do a few others here.
I *think* you're going to have roll up your sleeves and do some digging.

AFAIK - the CM15 code for Linux is incomplete.
The first thing I'd do is make sure someone's able to see Security data coming in on the CM15A.
Reliably.

I have NOT looked (as I have a CM11A), maybe someone's figured it out.
I just thought there were still plenty of holes in the reverse engineering effort left open.

"heyu" - the classing UN*X based X10 control program does not support the CM15A.
Title: Re: looking for advice getting started
Post by: NESter on October 24, 2010, 11:50:19 PM
I'm definitely thinking of trying to interface to the box that has vmware on it.  I should be able to access the USB from vmware to use activehome, and play with getting the cm15a to work from linux without having to buy a second one or physically move it from one machine to another.  Other option is to pick up a cm19a for $11 delivered off ebay and try to get that working in linux.  The certified like new kits are too cheap to resist so I am pretty much convinced I want one as I can get a cm15a and some extra lamp and appliance modules for $35, along with windoze software to play with...  any chance activehome can run under wine?  my vmware box is always booted though, so I guess I probably wouldn't use wine anyway, but it would be an interesting option to have.
Title: Re: looking for advice getting started
Post by: Brandt on October 24, 2010, 11:54:15 PM
keep it simple. don't introduce potential problems into your HA system. Get a used CM11a from someone on this forum, and run heyu...Heyu is light, fast, and a perfect linux wrapper for the CM11a.
Title: Re: looking for advice getting started
Post by: pconroy on October 25, 2010, 12:16:52 AM
Never tried VMWare - but I do run Virtual Box.
I've tried AHP with Wine - no go for me.
Title: Re: looking for advice getting started
Post by: NESter on October 25, 2010, 01:10:15 AM
not sure how much anyone here would want for a cm11a but they sure sell for a lot on ebay.  also, I need the ability to interface to my RF modules.  I don't yet use any powerline interfaces, though I plan to.  I think I'm just going to buy it, and if I end up just using it with windoze, so be it.  I'm not afraid to do a little coding though, so we'll just have to wait and see.  Maybe one day everyone will be asking me for help.  :)

The current "support" for cm15a sounds like it works just fine for sending commands.  I also want the ability to receive signals, such as from motion sensors, door/window sensors, and even x10 switches and remotes.  I want to be able to do everything activehome does and more and have it be open source and free.  x10 has nothing to lose here since they'll keep supplying the hardware, so I really don't understand why they haven't cooperated with better documentation and support for third-party software. 
Title: Re: looking for advice getting started
Post by: Brandt on October 25, 2010, 01:37:29 AM
not sure how much anyone here would want for a cm11a but they sure sell for a lot on ebay.  also, I need the ability to interface to my RF modules.  I don't yet use any powerline interfaces, though I plan to.  I think I'm just going to buy it, and if I end up just using it with windoze, so be it.  I'm not afraid to do a little coding though, so we'll just have to wait and see.  Maybe one day everyone will be asking me for help.  :)

The current "support" for cm15a sounds like it works just fine for sending commands.  I also want the ability to receive signals, such as from motion sensors, door/window sensors, and even x10 switches and remotes.  I want to be able to do everything activehome does and more and have it be open source and free.  x10 has nothing to lose here since they'll keep supplying the hardware, so I really don't understand why they haven't cooperated with better documentation and support for third-party software. 


Heyu and some extra hardware can handle all your needs ;) Trust me I'm doing it now...

CM11a's sell for about $10-$20 on here from generous members...

basically Heyu is the linux version of ActiveHome as it perfectly implements every feature of the CM11a. It is not open source but it is free, on the heyu_users mailing list you can make direct suggestions to the developer and the community is awesome!
Title: Re: looking for advice getting started
Post by: dave w on October 25, 2010, 09:43:33 AM
I've tried AHP with Wine - no go for me.
Yup, I did the same thing. After a month I decided I would have to move on to Homeseer or AA.   rofl
(Sorry couldn't stop myself).
Title: Re: looking for advice getting started
Post by: NESter on October 26, 2010, 01:29:09 AM
heyu can do cm19a, right?  I need the wireless in order to be able to "hear" my sensors, unless I can use a plug-in module that translates the signals onto the powerline for a cm11a to read...?  I may be interested in picking up some of the older hardware so I can play with heyu and whatever else is already out there.

I'm convinced I'm going to get a cm15a regardless, just because it's a steal in the package deal with the lamp and appliance modules and door/window sensors which I will make use of anyway.  I want to eventually write my own software if need be to get it working in linux.  And if I do, it will be GPL.  This is a project I'm interested in for myself that I know will benefit others if I can pull it off, so I want to share.  Wish me luck.  :)
Title: Re: looking for advice getting started
Post by: Brandt on October 26, 2010, 02:16:02 AM
a plug in transceiver such as tm751 or rr501 won't receive signals from security devices

Here is from the x10 auxiliary RF man page:

Quote
NAME
       x10aux - Auxiliary input to Heyu via RF

DESCRIPTION
       Heyu is a program for controlling an X-10 "CM11A" home control device.  See  the heyu(1) man page for usage information.

       This  page  contains  information about the capability of Heyu to receive and process signals from RF remotes and sensors
       using a WGL W800rf32a/usb, an X-10 MR26A, or an RFXCOM X10 RF receiver connected to a second serial port.

HARDWARE
       The W800RF32A is manufactured by WGL & Associates (http://www.wgldesigns.com).  Two models are available - the  US/Canada
       model  operates  at  a  frequency  of  310  MHz and the International model (W800RF32AE) at 433.92 MHz.  It is capable of
       receiving signals from standard X10 RF remotes and sensors like the X-10 HR12A "PalmPad", from security X10  remotes  and
       sensors like the X-10 DS10A Door/Window Sensor, and from older entertainment X-10 remotes like the UR81A Universal Remote
       which are designed to be used in conjunction with an X-10 MR26A Receiver.  Its receiving range is excellent.

       The X-10 MR26A is capable of receiving standard X10 and the older entertainment X10 signals, but  not  the  security  X10
       signals.  Its receiving range is somewhat limited, perhaps 20-30 feet.

       The  RFXCOM  X10 receiver (http://www.rfxcom.com) is available in a US/Canada 310MHz version, an International 433.92 MHz
       version, and a dual-frequency version.  All versions receive  signals  from  standard,  entertainment,  and  security  RF
       remotes  and  sensors  (which  transmit at their frequency).  The 433.92 MHz and dual-frequency versions can additionally
       receive signals from various other sensors like Oregon Temperature/Humidity/Barometric Pressure sensors.

       The RFXCOM X10 receiver is supported by Heyu in both variable length packet and 32 bit (W800 emulation) modes.

       The RFXCOM is a USB device but has a built-in FTDI USB-to-Serial converter and communication with it is the same as  with
       a serial port (assuming your OS supports the FTDI chipset, as does Linux).

       All of these devices are strictly RF receivers and have no transmitting capability.
Title: Re: looking for advice getting started
Post by: NESter on October 26, 2010, 02:42:35 AM
hmmmm....  so none of these can send RF.  The cm15a seems to be able to send RF based on the fact that X10 advertises that you can arm and disarm the security system over the web using their software.  I would like that ability, though it's not strictly essential.  It would allow me to implement some things which I've always thought were missing from the system.  For example, I haven't seen a wireless keypad for disarming the security console.  Never understood that one.  It would be great to have a keypad mounted by the entrance that could be used to disarm the alarm without a remote, whether for use by guests or for when your remote dies, or for when you simply don't want to carry one.  Also, I could chirp the powerhorns from the server as a signal, possibly as a "repeater" for my laundry buzzers or some other situation where I want to be able to notify whoever's around that there's something requiring attention.  Yes, I really want to know when the laundry's done.  It's quite annoying having the machines down in the basement where I can't monitor them without doing stairs every time.  :)
Title: Re: looking for advice getting started
Post by: dave w on October 26, 2010, 10:39:44 AM
The CM15A can send RF.
FWIW
X10 also has a couple of interfacing modules: the PowerFlash accepts low voltage AC, DC, audio, or contact closure, and will respond by transmitting an X10 "ON" command. When the input goes away it transmit an OFF command. If your washer buzzer is low voltage you could use this to interface.
The Universal Module can be set to provide a momentary contact closure when it's address is send an ON command, or a permanent closure until it sees the appropriate OFF command.
Title: Re: looking for advice getting started
Post by: Brian H on October 26, 2010, 10:57:33 AM
You may want to look at some of the ways users over in the Cocoontech forums have done appliance monitoring.
http://www.cocoontech.com/portal/articles/tutorials/home-automation/49-how-to-monitor-the-status-of-your-appliances-using-current-sensors
Title: Re: looking for advice getting started
Post by: Brandt on October 26, 2010, 11:56:13 AM
Heyu supports the Cm17a firecracker plugged inline with a CM11a if you want to send RF. Or you can use the CM17a alone.


If you want to use the Cm15a you are going to have to go with Windows as their SDK only contains DLLs. No linux support.
Title: Re: looking for advice getting started
Post by: HA Dave on October 26, 2010, 06:35:24 PM
Brandt, you shoud add your HeyU links, maybe in your signature.

http://forum.heyu.org/

http://wiki.heyu.org/
Title: Re: looking for advice getting started
Post by: Brandt on October 26, 2010, 06:42:19 PM
done
Title: Re: looking for advice getting started
Post by: HA Dave on October 26, 2010, 08:07:11 PM
done

Very cool. I certainly don't want to chase anyone away from the X10 forum. But many times users have become frustrated when trying to find non-windows based solutions. Although I think most people would like to be helpful... that doesn't mean we always have help to give. Getting the links up there.. where they are likely to be spotted when a user does a search... helps everyone. Good luck with your Sites!
Title: Re: looking for advice getting started
Post by: Brandt on October 27, 2010, 12:53:15 AM
Yeah and I don't like to take away from this wonderful forum, but if you run into people interested in starting with linux home automation, send em over!
Title: Re: looking for advice getting started
Post by: NESter on October 29, 2010, 05:21:48 AM
good info.  I will one day get a cm15a working in linux, i swear.  but for now I am using it with a VM running XP which works great.  It doesn't do *everything* I want, like triggering other non-X10 stuff.  But I can talk to my modules.  And I was able to get my security remote to control my lamp and appliance modules using macros.  Not sure why I need to use macros when the remote is supposed to be able to talk directly to devices 1-4 on the correct house code, but it works.  I still haven't figured out how to make a door/window sensor trigger a macro; there is no use sensor button for me.  Is that because x10 still hasn't sent me my registration codes?  They don't seem to say what features actually require registration and which ones will work without a code, at least not anywhere I've looked so far in my short time playing with it.

I will definitely look at the schematic for the laundry buzzers and see if one of the prebuilt modules will do what I want.  I still think using a relay with a door/window sensor would be a fun way to do it, but I can see how using official modules, particularly PLC modules, will make things work nicely.  I still want to be able to turn my security system on and off remotely.  I'll miss that if I switch to a cm11a.  I guess nothing else I want to do really needs to be done using RF modules.  Thanks for all the input!

PS...  I was trying to get the cm15a driver (from linuxha.com) to compile, and it doesn't for me.  Does anyone here have experience with that?  If I can send and receive once the driver works, it should only be a matter of a whole lot of data collection and analysis to be able to start controlling the cm15a from linux...  am I missing something?
Title: Re: looking for advice getting started
Post by: HA Dave on October 29, 2010, 11:24:45 AM
......... I can see how using official modules, particularly PLC modules, will make things work nicely.  I still want to be able to turn my security system on and off remotely.  I'll miss that if I switch to a cm11a.  I guess nothing else I want to do really needs to be done using RF modules.  Thanks for all the input!

There was lots of automation... before we had computers in homes. Good engineering often uses the simplest of devices to do the required job. I hacked a Security remote and connected it to a Universal Module to be able to remotely disarm the DS7000. That could be done with the CM11A.
Title: Re: looking for advice getting started
Post by: Brandt on October 29, 2010, 11:37:45 AM
Not sure why I need to use macros when the remote is supposed to be able to talk directly to devices 1-4 on the correct house code, but it works.

It's suppose to be home automation, not home by remote control :P

Quote
I still want to be able to turn my security system on and off remotely.  I'll miss that if I switch to a cm11a.  I guess nothing else I want to do really needs to be done using RF modules.
I can do that with Heyu, CM11a, and w800usb. Or anywhere in the world with the Heyu PHP web front end domus.Link

Quote
PS...  I was trying to get the cm15a driver (from linuxha.com) to compile, and it doesn't for me.  Does anyone here have experience with that?  If I can send and receive once the driver works, it should only be a matter of a whole lot of data collection and analysis to be able to start controlling the cm15a from linux...  am I missing something?

You're jumping the gun here
Title: Re: looking for advice getting started
Post by: NESter on October 29, 2010, 01:18:54 PM
You're jumping the gun here

Perhaps a little.  But I have AHP working in a virtualized environment right now.  Shouldn't I somehow be able to spy on the data going to the USB?  If I gather enough commands and statuses, shouldn't I be able to decode the protocol and write an open replacement?  I'm not suggesting it'll be a simple weekend project, but in theory it doesn't matter what's inside their black box as long as my code accepts the same inputs and sends the same outputs.  From the (ancient) data on linuxha.com it sounds like getting a basic driver to send and receive data via the USB interface shouldn't be terribly difficult.  The tedious part is figuring out what the input means and what output to send to cause the desired result.  Is this really a not-worth-it situation?  I find it hard to believe that no one has been working on this at all for years.  Obviously if X10 would just release specs it would make life easier by orders of magnitude, but not having specs is no reason not to try.  Wouldn't it be nice if you didn't have to rely on older hardware to get the job done?  Sure, I could pick up a USED cm11a, and maybe even get a good deal from someone.  But I can order hundreds of cm19a for cheap right from x10.  While I can use their basic functionality just fine on a windows machine or through virtualization, their software isn't extendible.  Honestly I haven't found anything that can't just be saved onto the cm15a that can be done by the software.  I want an interface to the data, not just a programming interface for macros and timers.  And I'm still trying to remain optimistic that I will get it.  So on that note...  anyone know of a software-based line monitor for USB interfaces?  I figure I can capture the data from under the windows guest OR the linux host.  I'll start looking into this over the weekend.
Title: Re: looking for advice getting started
Post by: Brandt on October 29, 2010, 01:36:56 PM
Sure if you have the time and interest go for it....for others home automation is their hobby not programming, and for some others it's  a time versus money issue

I suggest you work with the current Heyu developer Janusz, to get Heyu to support it, otherwise Heyu will die when there are no more CM11a's
Title: Re: looking for advice getting started
Post by: pconroy on October 29, 2010, 10:06:37 PM
PS...  I was trying to get the cm15a driver (from linuxha.com) to compile, and it doesn't for me.  Does anyone here have experience with that?  If I can send and receive once the driver works, it should only be a matter of a whole lot of data collection and analysis to be able to start controlling the cm15a from linux...  am I missing something?

Is that the one that makes the CM15A look like a device driver?
If so - I've shied away from those.
Given the changes that Linux still goes thru, I think that approach is fragile.

I'd grab libusb and try to take to the device directly.


And - yeah - you may be missing one small thing.  ;)

No one really knows for sure how to talk to the CM15A.
They've been reverse engineering the protocol.
Somethings appear similar to the CM11A, others are still unknown.

At least that was the status last time I looked.

X10 knows.
And they ain't sharing.
Title: Re: looking for advice getting started
Post by: Dan Lawrence on October 29, 2010, 10:12:58 PM
PS...  I was trying to get the cm15a driver (from linuxha.com) to compile, and it doesn't for me.  Does anyone here have experience with that?  If I can send and receive once the driver works, it should only be a matter of a whole lot of data collection and analysis to be able to start controlling the cm15a from linux...  am I missing something?

Is that the one that makes the CM15A look like a device driver?
If so - I've shied away from those.
Given the changes that Linux still goes thru, I think that approach is fragile.

I'd grab libusb and try to take to the device directly.


And - yeah - you may be missing one small thing.  ;)

No one really knows for sure how to talk to the CM15A.
They've been reverse engineering the protocol.
Somethings appear similar to the CM11A, others are still unknown.

At least that was the status last time I looked.

X10 knows.
And they ain't sharing.

X10 will never share the the specs on the CM15A besides the known fact its a USB device.   Some bright guy on the Linux side might figure it out, there has to be some USB devises in the Linux world.
Title: Re: looking for advice getting started
Post by: Brandt on October 29, 2010, 10:34:58 PM
does it use a serial converter chip such as ftdi or is it an HID?
Title: Re: looking for advice getting started
Post by: NESter on October 30, 2010, 02:12:36 AM
for me, hacking is the hobby.  Whether it's hardware, software, or some combination.  I like making the equipment I own act the way I want it to, regardless of what the manufacturer intended.  I like to do things for the sake of doing them sometimes. 

Actually, the other approach (non-device driver) that interested me WAS libusb.  I was looking at the pycm19a code and wondering if something similar could be worked out for the cm15a.  I personally would do it in perl, only because that's the language I'm most comfortable with.  I'll have a good look at how the python code works, and contemplate implementing something similar.  I still think there has to be a way to monitor the data sent and received by AHP.  With a large enough dump of raw data and sufficient time studying it, it ought to be possible to duplicate the behaviors of AHP. 

I haven't looked at heyu, but isn't that closed-source?  I mean, free as in beer is better than expensive, but I intend for my solution if it materializes to be free as in speech.  I'm doing this for fun.  Unless someone is paying me to write it, I intend to GPL it for all to enjoy and hack.  I envision starting out with a script that just translates the data into something usable, and maybe eventually creating a perl module that others can include in their own code.  If there's a demand, that is.  I'm wondering if there really is considering how little has been done thus far.  If HA people aren't typically coders, it makes the most sense to just write something that performs similar functions to heyu, which from what I've read seems to allow x10 commands to be sent from the command line at the very least.  That's certainly something I will implement if I get this off the ground.  I am picturing a daemon-type solution, where there is a background process doing the talking and receiving the data, and a command line program to send commands.  the daemon (backend) would have to be configurable to trigger linux events when it received predetermined x10 commands.  In this way, I could, for example, make a notification pop up on my desktop stating which door or window was just opened, or eventually, that the wash needed to go into the dryer.  Or that the motion detector in the driveway has detected someone approaching the house.  On the other hand, if someone logs in via ssh from outside my LAN, it could chirp my powerhorns in case I am not by a screen to see the pop-up that I already have coded.  The possibilities will be endless.  And the code will be free.  I've disconnected my cm15a from my laptop and plan to plug it in downstairs where the box with vmware is.  Hopefully in the end it will be moved to my main server where no ms software resides.  Everyone wish me luck.  :)
Title: Re: looking for advice getting started
Post by: Brian H on October 30, 2010, 06:05:44 AM
Brandt, It uses a Cypress CY7C63723 chip. Is the microcontroller with a USB interface all in one chip.
Title: Re: looking for advice getting started
Post by: pconroy on October 30, 2010, 10:57:22 PM
X10 will never share the the specs on the CM15A besides the known fact its a USB device.   Some bright guy on the Linux side might figure it out, there has to be some USB devises in the Linux world.

Linux has wonderful, complete support for USB devices.
That's not the issue.
On this Linux laptop, I have USB audio, USB mouse, USB 802.11n and a USB bluetooth adapter. :)



Bright guys are slowing reverse engineering the protocol.
Most of the basic stuff is figured out.
Title: Re: looking for advice getting started
Post by: pconroy on October 30, 2010, 10:59:40 PM
I haven't looked at heyu, but isn't that closed-source? 

Heyu is open but not GPL, LGPL'd etc.
Title: Re: looking for advice getting started
Post by: NESter on October 31, 2010, 02:18:41 AM
status update...

I tried moving the cm15a downstairs, and it works fine in vmware down there, but it can't receive RF from the living room, and PLC don't reach the living room either.  I guess I'm SOL with the RF.  wifi didn't work well in the living room with the router in the basement either.  so I guess I'll end up installing it in my kitchen and running a USB cable downstairs to the server when I get that far.  I'm guessing the PLC issues are simply indicative of the need for a phase coupler?  The living room is definitely on the opposite phase.  Of course, so is the kitchen.  I can receive PLC sent from the basement in the kitchen.  The kitchen is probably the best location for the interface if I want RF to work from the whole house.  Any recommendations for a phase coupler?  I have a three-pin dryer, or I could hard-wire if the results are worth the extra effort.  Are the ones available for $20-$30 any good?  My house is small by modern standards, so I don't *think* I need a repeater.

On the plus side, I found some USB monitoring software for Windows, so I am going to start logging data from AHP.  Hopefully if I line up the raw data with the logs from AHP I can decipher some of it.
Title: Re: looking for advice getting started
Post by: dave w on October 31, 2010, 10:54:17 AM
Any recommendations for a phase coupler?  I have a three-pin dryer, or I could hard-wire if the results are worth the extra effort.  Are the ones available for $20-$30 any good?  My house is small by modern standards, so I don't *think* I need a repeater.
$0.02

A high output repeater will also help with electrical noise problems, where a passive coupler will not.

The XTBIIR is the best, but if cost is an issue the Smarthome dryer unit or the X10 XPCR are better than a passive coupler, although they can get in to "firestorms", (typically caused by a module that transmits status - but I have had X10 / Leviton units that just went haywire - my ACT CR234 has high output and has been very reliable. XTBIIR is still my first choice).
Title: Re: looking for advice getting started
Post by: NESter on October 31, 2010, 05:52:48 PM
I'll have to price them out and think about it.  The literature indicates that repeaters are more important for larger homes, which mine is not.  I suppose I probably have plenty of noise from CFLs and the millions of gadgets I have, so maybe it's not a bad idea.  I was debating just buying one of those cheapo couplers just because it's not a budget concern, and if it doesn't work (or doesn't work as well as I'd like) I can upgrade at a later date. 

I've switched to usbmon for my monitoring.  I was thinking of throwing some small tools together for data collection.  Does anyone out there have a cm15a and want to contribute?  Right now I am thinking I want to write a script that watches usbmon for unknown data and allows me to tag what the data represents (device, command, etc).  Once I have enough data, I can try to make this thing work natively.  I'll be working on this off and on in my free time, but if anyone has different modules than me, it would expand my data set and ultimately enable me to support modules that I don't own.
Title: Re: looking for advice getting started
Post by: dave w on October 31, 2010, 06:46:10 PM
I was debating just buying one of those cheapo couplers just because it's not a budget concern, and if it doesn't work (or doesn't work as well as I'd like) I can upgrade at a later date. 
Hey, that is a good plan.
Title: Re: looking for advice getting started
Post by: NESter on October 31, 2010, 11:19:08 PM
XTB-IIR looks nice, but I'm not up for the soldering, and the assembled version is pretty pricey for something that might be overkill for my purposes.  I'm also not too keen on installing equipment that requires me to sign a waiver.  I'm sure these things are built well enough to pass UL testing, but tell that to my insurance company...
Title: Re: looking for advice getting started
Post by: dave w on November 01, 2010, 01:15:28 PM
XTB-IIR looks nice, but I'm not up for the soldering, and the assembled version is pretty pricey for something that might be overkill for my purposes.  I'm also not too keen on installing equipment that requires me to sign a waiver.  I'm sure these things are built well enough to pass UL testing, but tell that to my insurance company...

There is a ton of stuff in a typical home that is not UL approved.

I would still take a pass on a passive coupler (yuk-yuk). The XPCR can be had at a very low price off Ebay.
Title: Re: looking for advice getting started
Post by: Brian H on November 01, 2010, 01:21:14 PM
XPCR may cause signal firestorms with a CM15A.
http://kbase.x10.com/wiki/Known_Issues_with_ActiveHome_Pro
Title: Re: looking for advice getting started
Post by: Brandt on November 01, 2010, 01:41:25 PM
avoid the headaches go with an XTB-IIR with a CM15a plugged directly into it, and never look back... >!
Title: Re: looking for advice getting started
Post by: Brandt on November 01, 2010, 01:45:02 PM
NESter, your back and forth is starting to get to me.

First you say:

I'm interested in getting started with X10 hacking. 

then you say:

for me, hacking is the hobby.  Whether it's hardware, software, or some combination.


But then when it comes down to it you say:

XTB-IIR looks nice, but I'm not up for the soldering,


So what is it? are you in or are you out?

Go with the XTB-IIR, and call it a day..


If soldering lessons are needed I can point you in the right direction for video tutorials....
Title: Re: looking for advice getting started
Post by: NESter on November 04, 2010, 01:16:22 AM
can I solder?  sure.  do I enjoy it?  not a bit.  I have a friend who used to assemble PCBs for traffic lights, so when I need more than just a little bit of that stuff done, I usually ask him.  no point in doing a bad job myself.  it's just not a skill I've mastered, and to spend that much on a kit and risk ruining it with my amateur talent is silly.  Do you guys want to put me down or would you like to see some results?  I was hoping to find others who wanted to see this work.  I guess asking for advice is a bad idea.  this is a hobby, not a business.  I can't just drop over $100 like it's nothing.  If the cheap "solutions" are no good, then I will have to just find a way to keep my equipment on a single phase for the foreseeable future.  some day I can have my skilled friend assemble a XTB-IIR for me, or perhaps I'll win the lottery and not mind dropping an extra 50 to buy one preassembled. 

I've placed this hurdle on the back burner anyway.  I'm using AHP via virtual machine and usbmon on my laptop, which allows me to keep the cm15a in the room with the modules I am playing with.  when I have something worthy of running on my server, I will figure out a way to move the cm15a to a central location in the house within USB cable distance from the server.  If no one is going to offer to help with the actual project of figuring out the protocol, I'll just disappear for a while and work on it by myself.  Maybe when I post the first version that supports the few types of modules I own someone will be interested.
Title: Re: looking for advice getting started
Post by: pconroy on November 04, 2010, 11:17:52 AM
If no one is going to offer to help with the actual project of figuring out the protocol, I'll just disappear for a while and work on it by myself.  Maybe when I post the first version that supports the few types of modules I own someone will be interested.

It's not that no one wants to help, it's that the skill and time commitment required are often prohibitively costly.
Like I said, others have made a good start at reverse engineering the protocol.  Make sure you leverage their effort.


I have one personal, hopefully funny, story about soldering.
I can't solder - but many, many years ago - I bought a Heathkit Auto Engine Analyzer.  Back when cars had points and plugs. :)  Anyway - I did my best to assemble it, solder it up, but it never worked.

Feeling miserable, I put it on a shelf and forgot about it.

A year or two later I noticed that the Eveready D Cell batteries in it had leaked all over the insides.
I boxed it up and mailed it off to Eveready.  Back then, they had their No Leak warranty printed on the sides of the batteries.

I expected it to come back clean but still dead.
Imagine my total surprise when my analyzer came back dead - and working!!!


To this day, I know I owe some poor EE my gratitude for finding and fixing my terrible soldering job...
:)
Title: Re: looking for advice getting started
Post by: dave w on November 04, 2010, 12:17:04 PM
Do you guys want to put me down or would you like to see some results?  I was hoping to find others who wanted to see this work.  I guess asking for advice is a bad idea.  this is a hobby, not a business.  I can't just drop over $100 like it's nothing.  If the cheap "solutions" are no good, then I will have to just find a way to keep my equipment on a single phase for the foreseeable future. 
Nah we are trying to help. It is just several of us know from experience that, regarding a repeater, there ain't none better than the XTBIIR and because of its very high output, it solves a lot of noise issues in addition to coupling between phases. Having said that I stick by my (low cost) recommendation of the XPCR if cost is an issue.

I used the XPCR and the Leviton equivalent for years, before upgrading to the ACT CR234 (another fine unit). My problem with the X10 made models was they would, for no apparent reason, simply lock up and become unresponsive. Cycling their breakers remedied the problem for six months or so. This was back in the early 1990's so it is likely the current version has eliminated the problem. 

The XPCR can be had for the ridiculous price of $18 off eBay. And no soldering!! BTW next time you do have to solder go to Radio Shark and pick up a roll of 63/37 solder, also known as eutectic solder. It's plastic range is only 14* wide, so solidifies almost instantly. Virtually eliminates "cold" solder joints. Makes soldering much more mistake proof. Also wipe your tip frequently on a damp cellulose sponge or steel wool to help heat transfer.
Title: Re: looking for advice getting started
Post by: Brandt on November 04, 2010, 12:25:51 PM
A hardware hacker should know how to solder :D

Here is the guide that i learned from a couple years ago:

http://store.curiousinventor.com/guides/How_to_Solder