X10 Community Forum
🛡Home Security => Home Security General => Topic started by: dwp on December 03, 2010, 01:41:39 PM
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Here is a Diagram to hook up External Bells,Sirens & strobs.
probly shud of used the neg trigger becouse of the Diod, but seems to work eather way. the pos trigger is getting pos & neg pulses but reacting to only the pos pulses. may change that later to neg trigger that way the neg trigger will only get neg pulses. or just revers the diod. see up-dated diagram
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs596.ash2/154820_170974516258207_100000369798884_429057_5355953_n.jpg)
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Can post pic's if any one needs them,
iam working on a wirerless key pad for thoughs of us that have kids, the key chain remotes are not an option for kids and they suck any-ways, iam allways armming mine and don,t know it.
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Thanks for sharing your modifications.
One question. Did you add the wire and diode across the sounder or remove the wires from the sounder and route them to binding posts on case?
One caution.
The Mini PowerHorn uses a power line derived power supply. Don't be surprised if you have a 120 volts AC from one of the sounder wires to house ground or neutral. This would depend on the way X10 is driving the sounder. You may just want to check to be safe. If the driver is an isolated transformer then it would not have the 120 volts where you did not expect to find it.
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i removed the wires from the pizo and put on the diod
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the pizo wires come from the mini transformer wich isolate the pizo wires, the pizo wires are just triger wires for the relay.
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Thanks for the added information.
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with out the diod ac, with the diod you get DC. now it depends on your house voltage mine is 122 volts AC wich gives me 18 volts and some change, but this is ok, the relay triggers from like 12 - 24 volts so well in the range with low current,like 1.2ma.
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hit the panic and it takes about 2-4 sec to set-off the bell same when disarmming about 2-4 sec to shut off,but works great, i test mine once a week to make shur it's working.
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Can you elaborate on the "AC quad box - blue plastic". Did you make this, or is it available somewhere as a kit as shown?
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it is a blue ac plastic box you get at any hardware store !
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Gotcha - thanks. Helpful from me....
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dwp; Did you ever verify there was no floating AC on the external sounder wires to ground?
My SH10A Date Code: 04H33 has what looks like a output transformer in it but it is an autoformer and the output is not isolated from the internal power line derived supply. One reason I am asking is. X10 has been redesigning modules to use more modern parts and I don't know if recent SH10As may have an isolated output as the older ones do not.
The three to four second delay when triggered is normal. It takes a few cycles of the All Lights On and All Units Off commands to trigger it. That way if you sent an All Lights On or All Units Off from a remote. You don't fire it by mistake.
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i don't belleve so, iam not using a tree prong plug only a 2 prong plug, the mini transformer is a reducing former the pizo is a low voltage pizo, the voltage of the two wite wires is 18 volts ac, my house voltage is about 123 volts ac,so i get 18 volts and change out of the wite wires.the diod allows the dc side to come out,witch makes 18 volts dc. the mini power horn mod in this forum says 115 volts ac in the power horn you get 11 to 13 volts at the wite wires. this is true it depends on your house voltage like i said mine is 123 volts ac witch gives me 18 volts and some change. all i can say is check yours as you assemble.
that is what i did when i assemble mine, i check the wite wires before the diod and after. as for the delay it is normal my larg power horns have a delay to. my box is not grounded it is plastic,and iam not useing the ground so if there is feedback to the ground it shud not mater sence the power horn has no ground just a nutural. and the two wite wires are just to trigger the relay.
mine is working perfectly no feedback or cross talk. i havent look at the date code on my mini power horn mine may be an older one, but if they change to new components then the hook up may be differant,all you need to do is tap the the switched side and check if it is ac or dc and hook it up or convert it to DC and trigger the relay. hope this helps dwp
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i forgot to mention, the relay is a SENSITIVE TRIGGER RELAY ELK-924 IT SELLS FOR 10.00 TO 12.00 dollars.serch the net for it,
the relay may allso be use as a bypass entry relay. it comes with hook up diagrams. with these relays you can hook up any-thing you can incress the zones,these are used in many alarm systems,they come in 1 to 4 piggyback for upto 8 relays.
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I got a single ELK-924 board in an RFID Tag Reader Kit. Used with an Insteon I/OLinc.
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that will work for a card or a swip tag reader to bypass an entry way or disarm your system, i don't like carrying extra stuff so mine is going to be a keypad,iam waitting on 3 components 2 caps and a resister and i can put my key pad togetter i will post pics on that one,
i had all the other stuff laying around ,had the lock ic's sence the 90's i have them in sirfacemount to for remotes, a lock out on the remote like the cell phones used to be wood be nice.
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that is whats good about being an electronic experimentor, if your used to putting the kit boards together and adding them to things then this stuff is right up your alley -:)
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First of all may I say :)+ and #:)
This along with your keypad mod is exactly what I want to do with my system.
I do have a question however. I have a large power horn that i opted for in my kit. I wanted to use this instead of the mini power horn if possible. But I notice that the large powerhorn is on and off intermittantly every few seconds.
I planned to run a super loud 100w siren like off an ambulance or firetruck. However with it being on / off / on / off I don't think it will get power long enough to spool up to get the full effect.
Does the mini power horn operate the same way? Or does it remain on till you disarm the system?
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Both the PH508A and SH10A Powerhorns are triggered by a one second cycle of poweline signals.
Either an On Off to its address or an All Lights On All Units Off to the House Code being used.
So both the large PH508 and the small SH10A are triggered the same.
The only added feature with the SH10A is if you send it a single On to its address and then a dim or bright it will ding or dong.
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ya you can use the larger power horn, it will not matter with the relay it will power anything if you hook it up right.
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this is the first box it's in the atic. you could just plug a breaker strip in to the outlet.
i used the mini power horn becouse it is smaller the bigger one will make the box tip. and the mini is cheaper on e-bay like 6 - 8 bucks plus i didn't wont to void my warenty on my big one's.so i have 2 big horns 1 on each level & the external bell. i will add more later as i get them on sell. it is a mater of just plugging them in and mounting them.
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/hs272.snc6/180088_186062804749378_100000369798884_524862_576585_n.jpg)
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6" system sensor,120v Alarm Bell. mounted on the 3rd floor e-bay $20.00
the board is covering the atic vent & the wires run through the vent,it's cold here so don't need the ventelation.
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/hs023.snc6/165355_186062741416051_100000369798884_524861_4792343_n.jpg)
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Up-Date
i noticed when you are turnning on lights with the master control the bell will go on & then off for a few sec's, not all the time just once in a wile when you are pressing all the light buttons, i think if you set the unit code to a un-used code shud do the trick but keep the same house code as the consol.
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this Bell is about 110 db's,it's load enough that my neabors can here it if they are listning. the 10" bells are less db's. i live on 3/4 arces land in the mountians so neabors are far-away.it's hard to find really load sirens & bells they are expensive i mean 1000.00 to 2500.00 dollars.these are like cove-in type sirens or plant type sirens. car sirens are load but a car battery puts 10 to 12 amps to these sirens.so it's hard to find transformers that put out this kind of amps they are very expensive,at the most you will find transformers that put out 1 to 1.5 amps, i haven't tryed my 1.2 amp trans with a siren yet to see how load it is.so my goal is to make enough nois to scare a-way intruders. if you position 2 bells one on eather side of your house and maybe 1 dual tone siren shud be plenty of nois. strobs and flashing lights also get your neabors attention and let police and fire see your house at night. it's all about how much you wont to spend and what you can find at yard & thrift stores. you have to price check the same bell some wonted 50 to 60 bucks plus s/h for and it was only 25.00 plus s/h from the manufacture,i got mine for 20.00 with free shipping brand new on e-bay some on e-bay wont more than it wood cost to buy from the manufacture.
the 2 comman bells are system sensor & potter bells
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Here is a Diagram to hook up External Bells,Sirens & strobs.
:)+
This looks like an excellent piece of work and I want to become much more familiar with it, but I can't. The detail on the diagram is much too small for my old eyes. I tried printing the pic by itself but that didn't help. I also tried blowing it up but the resolution in the post is too small to allow for that.
If you could save your original drawing as a PDF file and post a link to that it would be really helpful.
Thanks in advance.
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The "Elk" web site has some of this diagram.....
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Ya i can do that, send a message to my e-mail and i will send a pdf version to ya. make shure you put x10 Diagram in the subject line so i know it's you or any one that wonts a pdf ver.
you mite try a magnifier hand held.
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up-dated Diagram
a little clearer pic with the Diod reversed now only pos pulses, to the pos trigger.
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/hs244.snc6/179271_186882934667365_100000369798884_529000_1627888_n.jpg)
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Has any-one put one of these set-up's to gether yet, wood like to know and get feed back. Dan
iam varry happy with mine, this was made out of nessesity i keep caching kids on my property scopping my house and grouge and they robed my niebors house. i also made my own window stickers and put them on all window and doors, a lot of meth heads here in the mountians.
sence i installed the alarm and window stickers i have not found any one lurking on my property.
i guess they moved on to easyer prey. window sticker paper clear plastic at office depot.
iam shur they have come around and looked in my windows, all my window magnets are clearlly visable,
there is no dout my house is wired !! and i let them know that i have motion & IR sensors. i also have the eagle eye motions in my yard witch turn on porch lights or when iam home send a signal to chimes, so i know when some one is in both my yards or is comming to my door. love thoughs eagle eyes they even tell me when the racons are in my yard trying to get to my trash.
if you have not tryed the eagle eye or any of the 2 wireless motions i highly recomend if you have a larg yard property that has forest bordering your yard, it is funny to see the look on my freinds niebors & the ups guy face when you are allways at the door watching them befor they even get to your door ??? my ups guy thinks i stand by the door all the time :'
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I'm in the process of putting this together. I got the elk relay off of ebay and used a big powerhorn as a trigger. I drilled the powerhorn case and installed a headphone jack. I had a long piece of wire with the male headphone jack on it for the relay trigger. This will make it really easy for final installation. It works great, the light on the relay shows it cycling on and off every 5 seconds or so which would be awesome for a siren. Which leads me to my next question.
Can I get a siren to run(wail) on straight 12v dc voltage? Or do they all require an amp or controller of some kind? I have a transformer coming that is supposed to handle up to 120watts. The siren that I want is a 100watt. It is an older looking siren, cast housing with a round back(driver?). This should work, right?
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Do you have any other data on the siren? Like what voltage it runs on and if the specification sheets indicated it is a stand alone unit.
Can you get details on it like a model number?
Your description could also be a large siren speaker. That is driven by some external siren electronics.
They do make 12 volt and 120 volt all in one sirens.
The connection diagram does show both types as options.
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there are all types i wood saggest one with a built in siren driver like a car siren,it depends, you could just buy one from e-bay or just hit yard sales,simple is better like one that is 120v AC with built in siren driver no need for a transformer or external driver board. most are 12v with built in driver. but one that is 120v ac and built in driver means you only have to mount-it plug it in and your ready to go.
if you see some transformers at yard sells or thift stores that are suitible & cheep than pick um up and take advantage
of the car sirens there cheep at yard sells & e-bay about 10 bucks. good sirens from alarm stores about 40 to 50 bucks. you could just buy a driver board and run the horns, i try to take advantage of what i can find cheep and make it work. good used stuff is good in my book. money is tight right now.
thift stores are good i picked up 2 transformers 1 was 1.2 amp & the other was 1.5 amps for 1 dollar each. some car sirens to for 2 dollars each. & i got one for my key-pad that white one is 9v 200ma for a dollar.
here was a good scrounge my neighbor got mad one day and smashed his lap top and through it off his deck into the woods a couple days later after he moved i went and got it ,and got a 14.5 volt transformer a 250 gig 2.5 sata harddrive and 4 gigs of memory and it all works,the hard drive is in a external incloser usb and i use it on my lap top. thank you !!
about 120db's is about the loudest you can find for reasonable money.
i went with the bells becouse they where 20 to 25 dollars brand new & 120v ac & 110 db's, & i didn't have to scrounge transformers. when you need them you can't find them,and when you don't need them there all over the place.
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the wail is built-in to the driver board,if that board supports that feacher. it's ether contenuest , wail or both.
when you have your set up complete please post your reveiw here please,Thank you
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Dan - I know this topic is relatively old (!?), but I had to give you another helpful. Just put your assembly together and it works like a charm. I use the "relay outlet" to drive a 12 volt power supply and an Elk-150TR siren and strobe. A good 4-minute alert ! Thanks......
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I haven't been on this site in quite a while. This thread was extremly helpful though. I got mine finished a good while back. I ended up using a 120v mechanical siren (ebay item). It's awesome! Sounds like a old fire truck when it goes off.
Thanks again for a very helpful thread.
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Man--this is exactly what I need but even with the directions I am not inclined enough with electronics to build this.
I wish someone would start selling these on eBay or something pre-made... anyone want to make and sell me one? >!