X10 Community Forum
X10 AirPad Android Tablet => AirPad General Discussions => Topic started by: dhouston on September 08, 2011, 03:29:04 PM
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For those who want to program for Android but don't want to deal with Java, etc. Here is a 50% discount code for Basic4Android. You need to use the Plimus link for the $99 Enterprise version to enter the code. The result is $49.50 plus any applicable tax. It should be good for about 15-16 more redemptions.
Code: baukyj
- http://www.basic4ppc.com/index.html
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+1 for your generosity.
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+1 for your generosity.
make that +2
>!
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Awww shucks, fellas. :-[
Actually, I get an extra year of free updates for each code use - although I already had the 4 max before I posted here. Eveyone who buys gets their own discount code to pass on and the extra year of updates for the first four code users. It's a good marketing ploy and somewhat targeted as I posted it here and to a couple of embedded Basic forums after first giving it to a few friends who I knew likely to use it.
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speaking of developing for android. As a developer, i read a lot of tuts and how to's, and is interested in how others code. given that, I found something great the other day, and your post makes me want to share it.
If you want to learn how to develop for android for real, from start to know what your doing enough to read some more advanced stuff, you can watch this guy teach you on youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUOWNXGRc6g&feature=BFa&list=PL34F010EEF9D45FB8&lf=plpp
he is really awesome and really good, he has some quirks about himself (like repeating the same phrases over and over), but the way he explains stuff will get you programming in no time flat.
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If you want to learn how to develop for android for real...
Well, I've been developing for real since Fortran and IBM punch card days. Currently, I develop for Windows, Linux and OSX as well as for PIC and AVR microcontrollers. The AirPad is the first tablet I have any interest in developing for and until you insulted me was planning some X-10 related Home Automation applications. ;) Also, I consider Larry Elllison to be the biggest a**h*le in the known universe and want nothing to do with anything he has his fingers in. I've never allowed any form of Java on any of my networked machines. That's why I suggested an alternative. Plus, Basic is much more accessible to first-time or relatively inexperienced programmers who might want to buy an AirPad try their hand at their own applications.
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I'm sorry for the confusion, I wasn't saying your not a real developer. I was simply sharing a set of videos with anyone interested in developing for the Android platform using the Google/Android recommended methods. Yea, there are other ways to develop for the platform, but your not going to have access to the platforms full potential if your not using the Android SDK and writing in Java.
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your (sic) not going to have access to the platforms full potential if your not using the Android SDK and writing in Java.
As I understand it, Android is open source so there is no inherent reason why other development languages cannot access all of its features. I guess it depends on the skill of the developers of Basic4Android. Real developers might compile to machine code, as several Basic compilers do, although B4A appears to make use of the Java JDK and Android SDK (I may have to rethink using it ::)). Basic4Android even accesses GPS - oh, I guess it cannot do that on the AirPad. Maybe I should consider that other, cheaper Android tablet - it does have AGPS and can probably do everything I want to do in an X-10 related Home Automation application. rofl
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I can't believe X10 hasn't developed touchscreen software for the AirPad. Touchscreen automation has been the dream of the future for some time. A wall mount and/or stand-up docking station, along with the software is all that needed. We could use WiFi to interface with our HA PC to control our homes.
OR..... If this thing could be made to control a CM15A... the electric saving of not running a desktop (HA PC)... would save the cost of the AirPad in no time.
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Touchscreen automation has been the dream of the future for some time. A wall mount and/or stand-up docking station, along with the software is all that needed.
Actually, there have been 7", 9" & larger wall mounted (and dockable) SBC PC touchscreens (single touch, resistive), running Windows CE, with wired ethernet connections available for a few years. The cost was a bit too high to use for HA in general although you might have found a limited market among some of the high-end hardwired and RF systems (e.g. Crestron, who I believe offers one). The names escape me at the moment. I looked at a couple seriously but, in the end, decided they were just too costly ($600 and up) for the typical X-10 user. The volume created by Apple and Android tablets have brought prices down and added features. The AirPad would seem a natural for HA and it's a shame they didn't include an IR emitter which would allow for control of A/V gear, as well. If I were a real developer, I might take a crack at it. ;)
-:) Hmmm, my poor, ancient, addled brain vaguely recalls sending 38kHz bursts out of the headphone jack on an early PDA using an IR LED mounted to a 1/8" stereo plug. I'll have to do a bit of digging but suspect my records went bye-bye with a NAS crash a few years back. I wonder whether the AirPad audio circuits might be capable of 38kHz and whether there's a way to time the bursts.
Ahhh, I recall that I created .WAV files of the patterns needed, eliminating the need for any timing, with L & R 180° out of phase, connecting L to cathode and R to anode - on a 3V device that gave 6V across the emitter and there was just enough current to work across the average room. With the 16/32GB of available storage using the SD slot or the Lenovo, this will work if the hardware can generate the higher frequencies (which is likely). I already have code to convert several formats to/from .WAV. Also, most IR receivers have about ±5-6kHz bandwidth so we may be able to cheat a bit if the hardware cannot do 38kHz.
I think I'll opt for the Lenovo with GPS and 16GB. Maybe they'll be more welcoming to an unreal developer. ::)
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.......... it's a shame they didn't include an IR emitter which would allow for control of A/V gear, as well.
You know.... instead of an IR emitter... a mini USB RF transmitter would be the ticket. One that would send and receive X10 RF signals (as well as security channel signals) and the RF freqency that is used with the PowerMid (http://www.x10.com/promotions/pm5900_ed_1m_promo.html) IR device. So the PowerMid (http://www.x10.com/promotions/pm5900_ed_1m_promo.html) could be placed.... where it could receive the proper RF signal and in turn control the IR devices.
That way the tablet/AirPad device (with the proper software) could interface with a CM15A using RF. And/Or with camera views using a HA PC and Wifi. Plus the tablet could be used to set or disarm the security console. And the same Pad could control IR devices all over the house and without ever needing to "point" the tablet at anything.
Then we could have [little more than] $200 touchscreens... that could also come pretty close to filling in for a HA PC. The other ones have always been a bit too complex and pricey for me.
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a mini USB RF transmitter would be the ticket.
That would have to come from X-10 as the cost of FCC required testing is prohibitive ($5K and up).
However, most inexpensive RF transmitter modules will not switch fast enough to respond to the IR carrier. In effect, they act like an envelope detector so you could send 418MHz with the IR output via the headphone jack assuming there would be enough current to drive the transmitter (borderline, I think). 418MHz transmitter modules are readily available. 310MHz (for sending to X-10 HA transceivers) are not.
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I control IR devices using BVC (http://www.davesdomainonline.com/bvc/bvc.htm) software, and a USB-UIRT (http://www.usbuirt.com/order.htm). I then use the PowerMid(s) to send the IR signals to my living spaces from the HA PC. Here's a video of that (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KN9_JH7MZV0).
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I controlled X-10 and IR devices with devices of my own design (costing ~ $75 total) some 10-12 years ago. Later, I even had a touchscreen, adding an RF transmitter to a Philips Pronto Touchscreen Universal IR Remote Control. IIRC, a refurb Pronto cost me about $100 and the RF transmitter another $5. But it couldn't browse the web, had no GPS and didn't serve as a phone.
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Just wanted to second the recommendation for Basic4Android. I missed the punch card days but I caught up with you at Fortran and sounds like we have pretty common background with the micros and such. Anyway, I traditionally do more C these days but have lots of java experience as well and was using the normal android dev environment for a while. It worked OK but I was poking around with the free version of B4A and tried to download something from the forums. It wouldn't let me have it since I hadn't bought the thing yet but it threw a discount offer up and I ended up buying the full version for $49.
It's actually very nice and most importantly to me, very solid. Usually, well into a project with a new IDE, language or whatever, the compiler starts freaking or the gui designer starts fighting you and you know you just did a bunch of work and got a headache. B4A so far is rock solid and I have never had any issues. The app I am writing right now has 23 screens and about a dozen tables using sqlite, GPS and pretty much all the sensors, etc and it works flawlessly. It does throw java type exceptions when you bomb something but the debugging is awesome and lets you step through your code in the emulator or connected phone/tablet.
Anyway, just change the screen res to Landscape 800x480x1 (160dpi) or Portrait 480x800x1 (160dpi) and you're ready to code for the Airpad.
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Just wanted to second the recommendation for Basic4Android. I missed the punch card days but I caught up with you at Fortran and sounds like we have pretty common background with the micros and such. Anyway, I traditionally do more C these days but have lots of java experience as well and was using the normal android dev environment for a while.
Thanks for your input - it echoes what I've seen on B4A forums.
I spent the latter part of my working life in management. I learned a little C and Pascal so I could understand the engineers/techs but Basic (initially being very Fortran-like) was far easier for me to use for things I needed. Once retired, I was just too old to spend a lot of time learning new languages and have found Basic dialects for the things that interest me. PureBasic for Windows, Linux & OSX typically beats C in compiled size and speed. It took about 20 minutes for me to port a rather large app developed under Windows to Linux and about 20 seconds to port the Linux code to OSX. Changes were mostly API-specific (and mostly dealt with COM port enumeration - not normally done under Linux & OSX) and PB gives access to all the APIs as well as inline ASM. It's only $99, supports Windows, Linux, OSX & Amiga (latter no longer updated and now open source) and with free lifetime updates. Unfortunately, its development has slowed recently as the young fellows who started it and have done most of the coding are out of school, starting families and working other jobs but it does what I need.
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Just in case someone is still looking for this and the discount code that dhouston supplied has ran out here is a new code: bmifyc
The purchase page link is: http://www.basic4ppc.com/android/purchase.html
Hey it may get me some extra free updates! ;)
Yes I did pick this up!
I'm not sure if this will mean an android version of PCC (http://www.angelfire.com/in2/ontkoi/X10AHP/PcCompanion.html) but I'll play with the idea!
thanks again dhouston
>!
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question, this basic for android thing.
I know of another language porting for android, but it uses a special install of extra languages (SL4A) to the device. so using for this example, python, would be unsatisfactory to upload to the marketplace.
Is this the same case for basic for android? Does the apps require a second app to run the app that is built? or is the program your getting, take all the basic, and rewrite it in java?
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Since it needs the Java JDK and Android SDK, I suspect it compiles to Java first. Here's what the web page says...
Compiles to native bytecode. No runtime libraries are required. APK files created are exactly the same as APK files created with Java / Eclipse
- http://www.basic4ppc.com/android/why.html
While I have Basic4Android, I'm still awaiting my Android tablet so I cannot answer with more authority which should come once I can try some hand* on developing. Perhaps helihead can answer based on hands on experience.
*I'm partially paralyzed and one hand is useless so I can't do hands on. :'
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I ordered an Android tablet yesterday that should be here this week. I can start playing with Basic4Android then, getting some hand-on experience. I'll probably do a Universal IR Remote using the headphone output and do a USB-310MHz RF dongle for X10 control. The latter will be for my own use as I've no inclination to spend $$$$ for FCC testing. I might be able to publish it as a DIY project - it will depend on the final details.
I have other projects but they will require WiFi links to my hardware.
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With wifi enabled one should be able to talk to a PCC with all this IR, RF stuff already connected.
Some third party softwares can do this now althought they are built for the windows platform.
No need to make the Airpad any bigger with added dongles.
However I understand your urge to tinker for your own use.
>!
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I like dhouston's idea of turning a tablet (or two) into an actual el-cheapie touchpad/HA PC combo. Now... if they could just except voice commands as well.... rofl
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It is possible to use the AirPad with the AHP mobile apps just as a smart phone. The only down side is you still require your AHP computer running and have to purchase the apps from x10.
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.... The only down side is you still require your AHP computer running and have to purchase the apps from x10.
Even with the down side.... that is pretty awesome stuff. I am happy now with my Voice Control (http://www.davesdomainonline.com/bvc/bvc.htm) HA PC. But it doesn't seem as if my setup will ever be complete.
Over the years.... I've gone from desktop PC's to laptops.... I think tablets will be a natural progression. My HA desktop is currently only an old P2 that was originally built for the then current windows 98. I think tablets might be within the range of reqired processing power needed for even Voice Control... and certainly for HA.
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I like dhouston's idea of turning a tablet (or two) into an actual el-cheapie touchpad/HA PC combo. Now... if they could just except voice commands as well.... rofl
All Android phones are capable of voice recognition since the Airpad has a microphone plug I suppect it is too!
>!
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With wifi enabled one should be able to talk to a PCC with all this IR, RF stuff already connected.
... No need to make the Airpad any bigger with added dongles.
I agree and this is how I see it fitting into a HA system (just a WiFi control panel to the main HA computer controller). I personally wouldn't trust an Android Device to "run the show". I think that computer still needs to be running a more mature OS (Windows, Linux, or OS-X). But still ... a very nice contribution to the system as a whole.
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Voice Control of HA has been around for several years. Hal2000 & HomeVoice were available in the '90s.
IIRC, Dr. Edward Cheung used one of those in his house. He posted frequently to comp.home.automation. He even suggested using FRS wristwatch radios although I don't know whether he actually implemented it.
I first got involved with HA & X10 in the mid-90s because I had written some software that allowed people who had lost the ability to speak from brain injuries, ALS, etc. to use text-to-speech on a PC or laptop to speak. They could even use the phone with a speakerphone modem. Adding control of lights and appliances seemed a logical progression. I got to know a lot of severely disabled people who needed assistance. One was a young engineer who was a quadriplegic from a diving accident who used voice control for nearly everything. But he was the exception as it really wasn't ready for primetime back then. In olden days it was not very good and required expensive mics, good audio equipment, parabolic reflectors, etc. and there was a limited vocabulary that had to be spoken precisely. That entire area was disrupted by the Lernout & Hauspie scam which bought up all of the speech related companies, including the Truvoice engine that I used, before their pyramid collapsed.
Speech recognition has probably come a long way since then. The automotive market has driven the development of new chips with more sophisticated algorithms but I really haven't investigated it lately as it never appealed to me but if that's your preference, have at it.
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All Android phones are capable of voice recognition since the Airpad has a microphone plug I suppect it is too!
If anyone gets any other mic to work on the AirPad (other than the internal one, of course) please post how you did it here:
http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=24960.0
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Voice Control of HA has been around for several years. Hal2000 & HomeVoice were available in the '90s.
It's my understanding (which could be wrong :) ) that the major players in Recognition these days are Microsoft and Nuance.
For voices (or Text to Speech) ... I always thought the AT&T Natural Voices (high sample) sounded pretty good. I kinda wonder who ended up with that technology. But that was several years ago, and I haven't compared them to the latest Microsoft offerings. But listening to Anna in Win-7 just now ... sounds really good to me.
And this leads back to the other post ... to have all this cool stuff running and available for HA ... you really need a nice computer and OS ... Android can just barely run itself properly :) . It is what it is ... use the right tool for the right job.
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...to have all this cool stuff running and available for HA ... ... use the right tool for the right job.
As much as I appreciate all the unsolicited advice and criticism, I've been doing this long, long, long time and, as stated earlier, have no interest in speech recognition. The cool HA things I want to do will be done over a WiFi link to embedded hardware of my own design with no need for a PC although I usually provide configuration software that runs on Windows/Linux/OSX and users can run it if they wish to monitor and control the hardware but both functions can now be performed using almost any WiFi enabled tablet. It's only been recently with the proliferation of low cost Android tablets that this avenue has become attractive economically. I'm well aware of various HA hardware that's available and some of the developers of those devices will remember me from early testing and development - I supported some of them in earlier projects. But I can do most of what is needed in the average residence with very inexpensive hardware with no need of existing devices other than interfaces for X-10, UPB, Insteon and several other players to be named later.
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As much as I appreciate all the unsolicited advice and criticism...
I'm sorry that you took my posts as criticism ... I didn't mean it that way.
As for the "advice" or extra info ... well, I was just trying to get it straight in my mind ... maybe even looking for some validation that I was on the right track. I actually thought it was kind of cool to be able to chat with someone (like yourself) with such a vast knowledge of HA.
While your ideas of using Android in a HA system are obviously different than mine ... I would still be interested in hearing what you come up with if you feel like sharing. I'm sure others would as well.
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While your ideas of using Android in a HA system are obviously different than mine ... I would still be interested in hearing what you come up with if you feel like sharing. I'm sure others would as well.
Here's where I am going, if my health allows.
- http://davehouston.org/roZetta.htm
Follow the link to my Arduino related page to see the new board designs that will run the roZetta firmware.
- http://davehouston.org/Arduino.htm
There are several WiFi options, allowing direct control for any Android tablet (or any device that can connect via WiFi, LAN, RS232, USB, etc.) that can do peer-to-peer WiFi or, if necessary, via a WiFi router. Neither approach needs to have a PC running although a PC will be used for configuring and can be used for monitoring. The device itself is as dumb as I can manage, doing only what it has been configured to do in order to keep the firmware as small as possible. Most of the smarts will be in the PC configuration program. Tony Perez who was , IMO, the key member of the Big Red Machine of the mid-70s said his job was simple, "See the ball, hit the ball." This takes the same approach - when it sees an input from any of its ports, it checks a lookup table for that port and sends the bytes which the user has defined to whatever port the user has defined for the response to that input. It's more-or-less the same approach I took many years ago with the BX24-AHT (although that did have somewhat smarter and fatter firmware).
Essentially, anything with RS232/RS485 and a serial protocol can be supported so I've no idea what some of the players to be named later may be.
The RR5x5 project I've discussed elsewhere on the forum dovetails with this but is not a necessity as the I2C shield has 8 channels that can be used for RF/IR In/Out. I tend to design things with redundant redundancy. :D
Should someone want to create a voice activated app for it, the protocol will be both simple and published.
Both of the above referenced pages still need some updating but you should be able to grasp the gist of things.
The I2C shield has a ton of memory that can hold things like IR codes to send out one of the RF/IR channels to drive an IR emitter, or RF codes which can drive an RF transmitter. I've captured/decoded numerous RF protocols for things like ceiling fans, garage door indicators, etc. so it will not be limited to X-10 RF/IR.
There's much more but my fingers are tired of typing.
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Here's where I am going, if my health allows.
- http://davehouston.org/roZetta.htm
Very impressive! Hope your health holds out for a very very long time. Take care of yourself.
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Now all I need is a Thing-O-Matic to make the snap together enclosures for it - or is there an app for that?
- http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/06/15/technology/personaltech/20110915-BASICS.html?ref=business
And Voice Control is sooo yesterday. ;)
- http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/18/magazine/the-cyborg-in-us-all.html?pagewanted=2&ref=technology
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Rabbit trail follows:
Oh "Thing -O- Matic" is very cool. I worked with a similar device two decades ago at Motorola. It used a 1 cu ft clear glass vat filled with UV hardened epoxy. Two X-Y gas excimer lasers encompassed the vat. At the X-Y intersection of the two lasers, the UV was intense enough to harden the epoxy. Incredible to watch. It would take CAD drawings and turn in to 3D solid object. Very funny to watch when they fed it CAD drawings of Mobius strip and optical illusions: i.e. http://www.michaelbach.de/ot/cog_imposs1/index.html . If I remember, each vat of epoxy cost about $2K so they did not make very many Mobius strips. ;D
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I'm waiting for the day we have cell phones embedded under our skin (probably behind the ear) with the ability to talk to our personal servers and databases.
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I'm waiting for the day we have cell phones embedded under our skin
I know what you mean. I've always loved the future. I am old enough that even the idea of owning a computer... was Science Fiction when I was a kid. The idea of a talking/Voice Controlled home (http://www.davesdomainonline.com/bvc/bvc.htm) (like a Star Trek spaceship) was more fantasy than just fiction.
X10 has helped me build a very futurist home... that still looks like just a house. It is amazing how flexible and useable the X10 systems are.
I haven't purchased my AirPad yet... but looking forward to integrating one into my automation setup.
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I'm not much of a hardware developer.
However I do plan to play with developing some sort of software for it.
My airpad is on its way! :)%
dhouston, At some point I'm hoping to move to my off grid place so I'm extreamly interested in your works with the AirPad . I have no intentions of running a PC 24/7 there.
Hopefully X10 will develope a bit of android software to upload to the CM15A simular to AHP with the smart macro plug-in. ;)
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dhouston, At some point I'm hoping to move to my off grid place so I'm extreamly interested in your works with the AirPad . I have no intentions of running a PC 24/7 there.
I've found a chip from Maxim that will let me add a USB Host port to my ZarduinoTM Serial IO shield so it should be able to support the CM15A.
- http://davehouston.org/Arduino.htm
(It should also be possible to build a Serial<->USB_Host adapter that would let the CM15A work with anything with a serial port.)
I still have to dig into the details so it will be awhile before I will have hardware.
However, you may have to come down here to get it - the problems my grandson had mailing packages to Canada about 8 years ago, that I mentioned in another thread, were to a remote area where the postal authority went strictly by the book. Or you could send me a pre-approved self-addressed mailing label. :'
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My wife is always looking for a reason to travel south! rofl
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One more recent development - WizNET has just introduced a $30 Serial<=>WiFi adapter. The WizFi210 is so new, they've yet to publish the datasheet. The price makes it attractive for Android<=>HA but I don't think they include SMTP/POP3 so, in a minimalist (sans PC) system, sending email alerts would require embedded HA software (e.g. roZettaTM/ZarduinoTM) that can handle that using UDP and I'm not sure, at this point, how much code memory that would require. Also, it's not a plug-in module and will require a bit of soldering skill for DIY.
- http://www.saelig.com/product/BRD027.htm
- http://davehouston.org/roZetta.htm
- http://davehouston.org/Arduino.htm