X10 Community Forum
🖥️ActiveHome Pro => ActiveHome Pro General => Topic started by: dleddy on November 07, 2011, 07:45:25 PM
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I ordered a promotion package with CM21a + software. Today I got an email saying they were shipping CM15K. With regards to the PC Interface and Controller (CM21, e.g.) does the CM15K package have the same capability? Specifically, will I be able to download macros and schedules to the unit, disconnect it from the PC, and plug it in a different room and have it control modules in the same way that my old CM11A did (which is now working erratically at best).
EDIT: Sorry about the CM21A - that came from some earlier discussion I saw in this or another forum. In reality, what I ordered (as correctly deciphered by one of the repliers) was the CM15A-SP-IS50 consisting of the CM15A hardware and SW31A software.
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I ordered a promotion package with CM21a + software. Today I got an email saying they were shipping CM15K. With regards to the PC Interface and Controller (CM21, e.g.) does the CM15K package have the same capability? Specifically, will I be able to download macros and schedules to the unit, disconnect it from the PC, and plug it in a different room and have it control modules in the same way that my old CM11A did (which is now working erratically at best).
Nope.
The CM15K consists of a CM19A and a TM751. The CM19A can only transmit and receive RF, and it uses the TM751 to get those signals into the powerline, but it cannot receive powerline commands.
In addition, the CM19A has no memory, and requires the PC be connected and turned on at all times.
If you want the functionality that the CM15A has, I recommend you try and find one on eBay, or from one of the other resellers that might still have some stock. Or, wait around and see if the CM15A comes back in stock.
I have a feeling you will be very disappointed by the CM19A in place of the CM15A.
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What's a CM21A?
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According to Noam, it's a CM19A and a TM751 being sold as a CM15K. A Wolf in Sheep's Clothing in my humble opinion.
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I'm sorry, I misread your post.
The CM15A is the USB interface that was introduced around 2004/2005. the CM15K is the combo kit of the CM19A (RF Only) and the TM751
(RF Transceiver) that they are selling in place of the CM15A, which is no longer in stock (with no ETA for getting more at this time).
From my searching, the CM21A looks to be a receiver that was used to connect on of the X10 universal remotes to the PC. It looks like a CM19A, but I have no idea if the internals are the same. I've never heard of it being used with AHP at all, and there is no mention of support for it in AHP.
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It wasn't that you mis-read, it was my mistake. I have since edited to correct my error. Your analysis is correct - they are advertising the CM15A and shipping the CM19 ("Yes, but it does the same thing" sayeth the sales rep). I have asked that they cancel the order and refund my money.
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It wasn't that you mis-read, it was my mistake. I have since edited to correct my error. Your analysis is correct - they are advertising the CM15A and shipping the CM19 ("Yes, but it does the same thing" sayeth the sales rep). I have asked that they cancel the order and refund my money.
Well, they kind of have it backwards.
The CM15A can do everything the CM19A can do. However, the CM19A can only do SOME of what the CM15A can do.
If they were out of CM19As, and were substituting the CM15A, then I would say that is fair (substituting a greater product for a lesser one). However, substituting the CM19A in place of the CM15A is wrong. (Isn't that illegal or something? Bait-and-Switch? False Advertising? Any product lawyers out there who can chime in?)
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I would say it's definitely illegal. I can't remember the exact wording on the invoice of my package but it was something like this. Some of the product numbers may not match the items listed on your invoice but any substitutions made are equal or better.
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... but any substitutions made are equal or better...
By whose definition?
I don't know about others here, but I certainly wouldn't consider the CM19A/TM751 an "equal or better" substitution.
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I doubt that the CM19A/TM751 substitution would hold up to "equal or better" in court either. Not sure that anyone would take this matter up in court but it is very misleading what they are doing, especially for someone who has done minimal research on x10 and orders a packaged kit from them.
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It is not equal and definitely not better.
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Some of the product numbers may not match the items listed on your invoice but any substitutions made are equal or better.
rofl
That made coffee squirt out my nose.
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Some of the product numbers may not match the items listed on your invoice but any substitutions made are equal or better.
rofl
That made coffee squirt out my nose.
Serves you right for drinking while reading forum posts.
If you want more laughs, check out the thread of comments I've been having with the X10 rep on FaceBook.
They are still trying to convince users that the CM19A/TM751 is an EQUAL replacement for the CM15A, and can do EVERYTHING you need.
It frustrates me that they aren't listening.
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Serves you right for drinking while reading forum posts.
If you want more laughs, check out the thread of comments I've been having with the X10 rep on FaceBook.
They are still trying to convince users that the CM19A/TM751 is an EQUAL replacement for the CM15A, and can do EVERYTHING you need.
It frustrates me that they aren't listening.
Well my key board needed cleaning anyway.
I really think X10 is in the despiration mode, and simply hope that people will not notice a sub standard substitution.
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This 'bait-and-switch' tactic certainly seems persistent. What I don't understand is why they would advertise one thing, knowing they don't have it, and will substitute something they have a warehouse full of, if it were not a deliberate scam. I have talked with sales support twice, and they say they are 'processing an RMA request' for return, but that they cannot
issue pre-paid return labels for USPS/UPS/FED-EX. I have also opened a dispute with my credit card company, and hopefully will at least get the outbound shipping charge refunded.
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A Wolf in Sheep's Clothing in my humble opinion.
In this case, more like a pig in sheep's clothing! Oh, wait, that would be insulting the pig! :'
ITguy
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Re-read the ad for the ActiveHome Pro kit and there's nothing actually deceptive about it. They even re-did the picture so it shows CM19A. Problem, which I'm guessing X10 is aware of, is that what they're shipping nowadays is nowhere near as useful as what it used to be. I'm longtime user of the CM15A, which was super-reliable for 4 years but recently croaked, and the pathetic workaround with CM19A kinda sucks. Didn't used to have to keep a PC on 24/7 (note X10 advertises what an energy saver ActiveHome is). Used to be able to control modules with more than one home code. Used to be able to put the transceiver in living room where it worked best with remotes without having to leave a PC sitting on floor beside it.
I'm wondering wtf they can't get hold of the neat CM15A anymore.
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With a few X-10 syatems running, I have stocked up on some spares, and am slowly switching over to Insteon. It is about 2x the price, and about 10x more reliable and better built and 100X better supported (which X-10 never was). I liked X-10 but am planning my migration on their imminent demise.
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Last time I checked, the Insteon software is still lagging behind AHP (which has its own pile of shortcomings).
Despite my love for my current X10 setup, I think now would be a great time for Smarthome to make their move. They started with the newer X10-only switches, which might be a ploy to grab customers, and get them hooked on Smarthome's reliable hardware, and great customer service. Given the disappearance of the CM15A, and the shortage of some other X10 modules, they might be able to get more people to look toward Insteon.
If they had a 50% off Insteon blowout sale, I think they might be able to get more people hooked on it a lot faster.
Another option might be for them to come out with a CM15A replacement, aimed squarely at AHP users. Software and all.
What do others here think?
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I agree. If Smarthome would make a X10 capable interface like the CM15A it might sell.
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I agree. If Smarthome would make a X10 capable interface like the CM15A it might sell.
I think the key is the software, and the features. If it can do timers and macros at least as well as AHP (Adding functions is fine, as long as the user can do multiple timers per module per day, macros (SmartMacros would be a MUST in my case), and have an SDK that lest us talk directly to it (perferably using the same language we already talk to the CM15A - for compatibility), then it might have a chance. It would be harder for them to convince users to jump over to them if they have to start from scratch, and lost functionality they currently have.
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They discontinued their 1132CU controller awhile back and the Smarthome Manager Essentials or Plus versions where called Legacy.
They don't even load with Vista or newer. Someone fudged the loaders but it is a pain where you sit.
Also never even corrected for the new DST dates. Again we had to fudge things.
They still use the %dim X10 protocol and not the extended messages used by the Soft Start X10 modules.
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They discontinued their 1132CU controller awhile back and the Smarthome Manager Essentials or Plus versions where called Legacy.
They don't even load with Vista or newer. Someone fudged the loaders but it is a pain where you sit.
Also never even corrected for the new DST dates. Again we had to fudge things.
They still use the %dim X10 protocol and not the extended messages used by the Soft Start X10 modules.
They would need to put out a controller (or a version of their NetLinc one) that has software geared more toward the current X10 users. The ability to send Extended Dim, and to do multiple timers on individual devices would push me more toward Insteon.
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They would need to put out a controller (or a version of their NetLinc one) that has software geared more toward the current X10 users. The ability to send Extended Dim, and to do multiple timers on individual devices would push me more toward Insteon.
Take a look at the free "X10 Only" version of HCA. It is a PC-based automation system that can work through the CM15A, CM11A, or XTB-232. It supports the SmartHome preset dim protocol and also the extended dim used by the newer X10 modules. The status query to 2-way modules, such as the LM14A, RR501, or 2-way SmartHome modules is pretty neat.
Jeff
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It's a possibility that my RR5x5 add-in for the RR501 could emulate a CM15A but not with a USB interface.
It might also be possible to have a daughterboard that would plug-in in place of the Cypress µC used in the CM15A, using one of the newer USB-enabled PICs (there's even an open source USB PIC bootloader) but that would be sometime in the future. I already have too many projects and don't need to confuse things with another. I designed similar CM15A daughterboards using both PICs and AVRs but both used serial interfaces. I never pursued them because I didn't think there would be sufficient interest. I doubt that even a USB version would change that as you still would need a CM15A to modify.
If the CM15A is truly dead and buried, I would expect Smarthome to attempt something to replace it but no competent developer would seek to duplicate the X-10 software.
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I fear that when the pallets of RR501s are used up. They will also be gone.
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I fear that when the pallets of RR501s are used up. They will also be gone.
I'm sure you are right but, as I wrote earlier, I've wanted to do the RR5x5 for a long time so am going ahead with it even if I'm the only user (although I do have one other long-time X10 user committed to get one). And, I bought a handful of those IBM kits back when they were $6 so they should outlast me.
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The X10 Facebook rep said (again) that the CM15A and the SC1200 were NOT discontinued, they just are waiting for more to be manufactured. They don't have an ETA, but they *assured* me there will be more in the future. I don't know if I believe it, but at least they are telling their employees that there will be more of them.
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I don't use Facebook, but this might be good news. We will have to wait and see. I suspect it's good news, though.
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I don't use Facebook...
In that case, they *might* let you buy one anyway (if they ever get them in). ;)
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Is this the same source that insisted the CM15K was equivalent or better than a CM15A?
Until I actually see one being offered again. I will give it about as much credibility as "Anyone can set it up in 30 minutes" sales pitch.
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Read for yourselves:
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You left off my favorite comment - the one I added asking about their definition of "the future": Did they mean Spring 2012, or Flying Cars.
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Since we didn't get the flying cars in 2001, the future is just that, the future. We get to wait. If the year number goes over 2 we just might give it up.
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Since we didn't get the flying cars in 2001, the future is just that, the future. We get to wait. If the year number goes over 2 we just might give it up.
The movie I watched said flying cars by 2015, as well as a pepsi costing $50 and a baseball team in Miami (of all places!).
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Hello,
For those looking for a CM15A, I have the CM11A in stock. X10 has upgraded the CM15A's software (SW31A) so it can now be used with the CM11A. It will even run on Windows 7 (32 or 64 bit) by using the new software. You can buy the SW31A software at a reduced price if you decide to upgrade the CM11A's software.
You can view all this in more detail at my webpage: http://www.thex10shop.com/product/x10-genuine-cm11a-activehome-serial-computer-interface
The CM11A can be programmed and then run on its own--no PC needed--just like the CM15A can do. It's not a direct replacement for the CM15A but then on the other hand it's miles ahead of the CM19A (or CM15K).
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Do you sell an adapter to convert the serial cable on the CM11A to USB? How much does that cost?
Is the current verwsion of the CM15A software the one that will run on the CM11A? What version number is it?
Tom G.
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What are the differences between the CM11A and the CM15A, other than USB? Just started to go back to X-10
in my new house, and hitting a lot of frustrations. I wanted to be able to use my Harmony remote to control lights in my family room. Needed a IR543(discontinued), found a dealer that still has at a high price. Bought the software and a bunch of new modules etc. Well the IR543 does not communicate back to run macros with the "CM15K", so it appears I need a CM15A, getting outbid on the ones I find on Flea Bay. Now I am wondering if the CM11A which appears reasonably priced is a suitable substitute until or if the CM15A becomes available again.
Also the light switches I ordered from X10 are re-certified and appliance modules are back ordered, after two months to get my order. It does not look good for this company IMHO.
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The CM11A will work with the later AHP software. Support was added at 3.314 and a few bugs where corrected in later versions. 3.318 is the latest.
The CM11A is a serial device and does not have as many features as a CM15A. Much smaller internal memory to store timers. No RF receiver or RF transmitter for X10 remotes and other RF only devices.
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I ordered the activephone pro for $79. On their page (every other page as well) it says it comes with a CM15a. So before I ordered I looked up what CM15a was about. It was exactly what I needed. I was looking for a timer where if need be I could send some packets to my server to wake it up and make the changes to the timers. Well, after receiving my package (came with CM19a) I didn't get what I ordered. I'm not going to leave my server running 24/7 to turn a few things on and off. I'm sorry, but I'm a little teed off, and for good reason. I, for the most part, bought some closet junk unless I can find a way to rectify this. This is BS
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I'm not going to leave my server running 24/7 to turn a few things on and off. I'm sorry, but I'm a little teed off, and for good reason. I, for the most part, bought some closet junk unless I can find a way to rectify this. This is BS
Well, other than listen to you vent your frustration, there isn't much (we) the forum members can do.
"X10 Repair Depot" (about the only X10 personnel who posts answers to user comments) stated the CM15A was gone and X10 is working on a replacement. At the same time, a forum user said he just received a *new* CM15A from X10. So I don't think even the regular forum readers can piece togeather the actual picture of what is happening in X10 Land at the moment.
You might try X10 Customer Service to see if they have a solution.
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Even if you DID get a CM15A, you would STILL need to leave your PC on 24/7. The CM15A can't talk to the Internet on its own, and requires a 24/7 connection to the running PC for it to work.
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Do you sell an adapter to convert the serial cable on the CM11A to USB? How much does that cost?
This is surely too late to help Tom G but here is an inexpensive and compact USB-to-RS232 adapter if others have a need. It uses the Prolific PL2303 chip and there are drivers for Windows/Linux/OSX (I've tested this one under XP and other PL2303 devices under all all three.) It ships free by US Mail - I had it in about 3 days.
- http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-SERIAL-RS232-DB9-9-PIN-ADAPTER-CABLE-PDA-Blue-/170765898799?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27c270d42f
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I ordered the activephone pro for $79. On their page (every other page as well) it says it comes with a CM15a. So before I ordered I looked up what CM15a was about. It was exactly what I needed. I was looking for a timer where if need be I could send some packets to my server to wake it up and make the changes to the timers. Well, after receiving my package (came with CM19a) I didn't get what I ordered. I'm not going to leave my server running 24/7 to turn a few things on and off. I'm sorry, but I'm a little teed off, and for good reason. I, for the most part, bought some closet junk unless I can find a way to rectify this. This is BS
bluezr1
Directly from the X10 ActivePhone Web page:
"This App sends wireless commands from your phone over the Internet to ActiveHome Pro on your PC."
and
"Other than that, you need ActiveHome Pro on your computer. "
Where did you get the idea that the CM15A did not need a computer for internet or WiFi connection? Buy yourself a cheap notebook if you can't run the "server" 24/7.
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Having to deal with the CM15a replacement... question(s)
1. Is the off / on data and and macros stored in the CM19 after downloading / updating???
2. Is there a clock in the CM19???
3. If so, then could I plug the CM19 into a USB power supply to keep the programs active and usable with the computer off, much like the CM15???
THANKS, J
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Having to deal with the CM15a replacement... question(s)
1. Is the off / on data and and macros stored in the CM19 after downloading / updating???
2. Is there a clock in the CM19???
3. If so, then could I plug the CM19 into a USB power supply to keep the programs active and usable with the computer off, much like the CM15???
THANKS, J
1. No the CM19A has no memory in it. As far as I can tell, doing a download does nothing with the CM19A. It may update the computers data, but I have no concrete knowledge of that.
2. No
3. No.
The CM19A TM751 {CM15K} combination also has no power line receiver for triggering from power line events.
(edited 3/27/3012 by Noam, to include the original questions above the answers)
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THANKS for the bad news, which I had already figured out... just wanted someone else to confirm.
Next question... is the another manufacturer who has a device which is an exact or better replacement for the CM15a???
Not holding my breath waiting on X10... this type of corporate oversight is very, very poor management on the very item that bonds the entire home automation together... worse, it may not have been an oversight!!!
THANKS AGAIN, J
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I'd wait until July of this year an X10 Employee who posts here has said in the second part of 2012 a new interface will be available and he does not post lies.
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So now that July has come and gone, and August is almost gone as well -- any ideas where this new interface may be?
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You may want to read this page of the thread.
http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=26297.60
The fate of the replacement for the CM15A is really fuzzy right now.
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I'd wait for either November or December for the possible release of the next generation of interface. 2012 does not end until 12/31/2012. There are other posts here that show X10 modules being offered again by X10.
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So now that July has come and gone, and August is almost gone as well -- any ideas where this new interface may be?
My prediction is "not this year".
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Even if they were introduce a new controller tomorrow, I think I'd hold off on buying one for a while. I really would need to see a lot of positive reports, and very few negative ones, to jump on the bandwagon. I have no desire to *pay* to be a beta tester of their new interface.
Besides, My two CM15A's have been working fine for me, and I've still got a few spares in my parts box.
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I REALLY hope they come out with an acceptable replacement soon. I was planning on doing big things with them (here's what im doing so far www.HomeNetworkX.com).
to X10 - My replacement wishlist:
1) USB connection that works with the existing SDK
2) RF AND Power line Tx/Rx
3) I personally would like to drop memory and battery backup (a smaller package would be nice)
The first two are the LEAST you can do to provide an adequate replacement.