X10 Community Forum
💬General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Tinman55 on March 08, 2012, 01:51:09 PM
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Ok, I have been out of the mix for awhile....maybe 6-9 months....but why are all the X10 prices up so high....both on Ebay or X10...for example a RR501 transceiver is now 29.95 and they used to be like 11.00 bucks....27.00 bucks for a 20 amp wall switch....I could get a 3 pack cheaper than that last year.
So what did I miss ??? I did some searching here but can't believe I can't find anything about the price jump.
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X10 was forced to find another company to produce the hardware. this produced a shortage as rumors flew that X10 was going under.
Even some of the die hard x10ers rushed to grab old stock.
X10 has found a new company to produce most of thier hardware but with prices increasing for labour in china they're forced to pass the increased production cost to the end user.
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You may also find some X10 devices now Discontinued.
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X10 has found a new company to produce most of thier hardware but with prices increasing for labour in china they're forced to pass the increased production cost to the end user.
Did I miss something? I don't recall seeing anything to indicate they found a company to produce their products.
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Quotes from official X10 post: http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=26297.0 (http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=26297.0)
"In some cases, we found an alternate factory to produce the existing items.... Our product line of HA products is limited for now, but the core items will remain available. Over the past 6 months, we have invested a significant amount of money to have the existing modules produced again. We fully intend to continue supporting the X10 protocol"
Hopefully they were able to hire the some of critical skilled workers, and transfers existing test and manufacturing fixtures from the previous factory.
X10 has found a new company to produce most of thier hardware but with prices increasing for labour in china they're forced to pass the increased production cost to the end user.
Did I miss something? I don't recall seeing anything to indicate they found a company to produce their products.
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"In some cases, we found an alternate factory to produce the existing items....
Thanks. I guess I skimmed right over that statement.
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As I said in some prior posts, X10 devices have been incredibly cheap. Often the lamp and appliance modules could be found for about the same price I pay for just similar empty plastic cases.
Jeff
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Ok, I have been out of the mix for awhile....maybe 6-9 months....but why are all the X10 prices up so high....both on Ebay or X10...for example a RR501 transceiver is now 29.95 and they used to be like 11.00 bucks....27.00 bucks for a 20 amp wall switch....I could get a 3 pack cheaper than that last year.
So what did I miss ??? I did some searching here but can't believe I can't find anything about the price jump.
I join in that... Just visited the forums again.
Remember when "X10.COM" sold X10 products? :-\
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I have to ask - what are the odds prices will stay this high? I look with distress at my eBay X10 history showing me buying 3 packs of lamp modules for under $20 shipped... will we ever see those days again?
I'm pretty well set as far as lamp/appliance modules go, although I really would like some more X10 Decora wall switches (dimmers and on/off switches) to hardwire into a few rooms. As of now their price has more than doubled since last year.
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I doubt you are going to see the prices drop.
One online X10 dealer has a web page of 39 X10 modules they where told are discontinued.
I bought two spare IR34 remotes as the page indicated last batch to ever be sold.
Smarthome dropped their short lived X10 compatible modules and many of the latest revision Insteon modules have now dropped X10 support.
Hopfully X10 will find some new manufacturing places but with them going more to Tablets, OEM wifi cameras and other third party goodies. I feel changes are on the way.
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Hopfully X10 will find some new manufacturing places but with them going more to Tablets, OEM wifi cameras and other third party goodies. I feel changes are on the way.
I try to remain "hopeful" myself [but my Dad had a saying about "hoping in one hand......"]. I don't see the State Department making any progression in negotiating any trade agreements that would allow for manufacturing outside of "the favored nation of China". And the people of China can't afford to make cheap little devices anymore. Times change.... and I don't see the reasons for hope.
But this IS what we asked for. China wants to make our General Motors cars in the near future.... and if they contribute to right campaign they may get their wishes granted. (Our President has already received countless millions in small unaccountable Internet donations).
In the USA we've tripled the money supply (in the last three years)... making US dollars worth... less. Foreign goods aren't going up in price as much as the money we use to buy the goods is worth LESS. This is what bad Government looks like! Sorry... but THIS is why prices are high.
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The economists have been saying that over the decades China and other developing nations have been exporting deflation via the USA moving production overseas to reduce cost. After moving all the manufacturing that makes sense to move overseas... there is only one direction for cost of production to go... that is UP! (Higher overseas wages, energy, material cost). As a side note, we excel in big machinery (caterpillar truck, planes, etc) and are premier exporter to rest of the world.
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........ As a side note, we excel in big machinery (caterpillar truck, planes, etc) and are premier exporter to rest of the world.
Yes we are! North America continues to excel in all areas of production that our trade agreements allow us to compete in. However... the current view of the global citizens is to distribute goods and services around the world in such a way that all nations are dependent on all other nations. In theory this interdependence will make wars [all but] impossible.
Of course these same One World, Socialist, global citizens also believe that trading individual freedoms and wealth for a promise of peace is necessary. [They think] It is required that a global standard of living be accepted by wealthy nations. To move FORWARD with these plans.... Americans must learn to live with less.
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So regardless of political views, I think it is simple economics...
They made tons of x10 modules. There was less demand than supply, so the prices were low.
They stayed so low, with little demand that the supplier couldn't make money producing them. Less supply, and now the prices are higher.
The X10 website simply went the way of Radio Shack. They will be selling cell phones before long.
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Radio Shack used to sell X10 Modules under their "Plug-N-Power" line. Not any more. I still have a couple of their modules in my spare box.
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....I think it is simple economics...
They made tons of x10 modules. There was less demand than supply, so the prices were low........
They stayed so low, with little demand that the supplier couldn't make money producing them. Less supply, and now the prices are higher.
So... you think Apple has all the assemblers they need? Do you think there is a ample global supply of electronic parts?
X10... most certainly has its own problems. But X10 didn't cause China's problems! Supply and demand tends to work very well when... left to do that. Economy of scale allowed X10 to sell huge amounts of cheap parts, and dominate a market, that it didn't control through any superior technology. But tablets and phones killed the cheap and plentiful Chinese parts.
Meanwhile.... my Government has flooded the world with [three times as many] new dollars which are backed by.... you guessed it even LESS productivity than America had in 2008. So.... just like the old S&H stamps it takes many more stamps [dollars] to trade for the same old merchandise. Not only does the people of China want more dollars in trade for the same things... the oil producing nations want more dollars per barrel too.
But I do think you're also correct! When families are trying to decide wether to buy gasoline or food.... Home Automation devices might drop a little lower on the "needs list". Whereas value priced items tend to do better during tough economic times... I don't think that applies to value priced luxury items.
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Radio Shack used to sell X10 Modules under their "Plug-N-Power" line. Not any more. I still have a couple of their modules in my spare box.
My first X10 devices were Radio Shack plug-n-power. I wonder how I would have bought X10 devices without the internet back then.... But anyway, getting back into X10 home automation in the early 2000's was a great time. Prices were much lower than in the 90's, and supply was great. Aaaah, the good old days.
and is that HA for home automation, or laughter, Dave? - I don't disagree with you, I just don't have all the insight into global economy. When I hear explanations for oil prices based on speculation and something they call oil futures, I suddenly feel a headache coming on...
But I do often wonder why everything at WalMart or Harbor Freight Tools is so cheap because it is made in China, yet all the expensive Apple products are made in China as well... So a cheap $80 tablet is probably made on the same street as an Ipad for $600? I don't know if I will ever understand. ???
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Plus the fact that China is beginning to become less Communist as the old generation dies off, the citizens are getting more like free people.
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...... But I do often wonder why everything at WalMart or Harbor Freight Tools is so cheap because it is made in China, yet all the expensive Apple products are made in China as well... So a cheap $80 tablet is probably made on the same street as an Ipad for $600? I don't know if I will ever understand.
Although the Peoples Republic is still basically a communistic socialist state... they are starting to see the light of free enterprise. Most factories in China are co-ops... owned by the locals where the factory is located and by the workers themselves. They hold meeting and vote on officers, hire managers, decide which direction to procede and so on (pretty much as described in the red book).
I read of a guy who went to a factory in China where he was having bicycle frames made to his specification. After the meeting and negotiations in the office part of the factory he was taken down into the factory for a tour. There he was introducted to an older gentleman that had been a frame welder for many many years.... he was also the chairman of the board.
Doing business in China is different than in the west.
The Apple factory in China has (I have read) over 250,000 employees in one location. I doubt that Apple (or Steve Jobs) negotiated with any local factory to work out any "deals". I would guess Apple dealt directly with national "party" officials. Of course... politicians in China have deep pockets just like socialist politicians in the west. So costs at the big state sponsored factory.... are much higher than at the [formentioned] bicycle factory where the owner operators worked long hours to compete with others doing the same thing.
In China.... government decides what big factory is built where. And the government also decides what new housing is built where. And government decides who goes to colleges where and when (it must be that the government controls ALL student loans there.... too). So government run factories will be the ones that attract the the best workers.... even if it means closing down other factories.
In socialist states... GOVERNMENT decides who [and what products] will be the winners... and who will be the losers. Sorta like the windmills and solar panel companies in America recently. In China.... it is all rigged and corrupt! I am sure there are other similarities to recent American events also.
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I also recently heard that a big part of [our troubled automaker] General Motors recent success is because the Chinese government stepped in and agreed to purchase a large number of China made GM cars and trucks. Of course... one hand washes the other. China is making demands that the Cadillac be made in China. Today the Cadillac... how long till they make the pride of the fleet... the Volt. [obivious humor intended]. Soon all GM cars will be made in China. Good luck with competing with those prices Ford.
Of course... becoming the "automaker of the world" while remaining on top... of the top electronic products... won't be easy even for China. The Chinese bicycle welder I mentioned in the earlier post may have to move and learn to weld mufflers. Particularly because the car factories are also State owned and controlled (in this case... I mean the ones in China... not just GM).
This is what I think happened to X10 products.
So.... why doesn't X10 just move their factory's somewhere else? For the same reason China won't have to worry about losing control of the bicycle market after most of the bicycle factory's switch to making mufflers for Cadillac's. Because trade agreements are negotiated for America (and by extention to a great deal.... North America) by the United States State Department. And Hillary Clinton just doesn't seem motivated to try to pressure China to make cheap X10 modules. Or.... allow other nations to import those same products.
Maybe.... Secretary Clinton would rather press China to control North Korea... then press them to produce cheap CM15A's. Or maybe since the biggest share of the administrations campaign contributions are coming from small little Internet donations. Donations that are too small to even record the ip address of the contributor... let alone the donators name. Maybe... we don't have much choice in what China does. After all... Americans can't get permission to drill off the coast of Florida. Yet China's rigs don't mind drilling for our oil only slightly closer to Cuba.