X10 Community Forum
🔌General Home Automation => Other Automation Systems => Smarthome & Insteon => Topic started by: Brian H on April 25, 2012, 06:07:00 AM
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The latest Insteon SwitchLinc Relay sales page says X10 Support NA and a user in their forums, has been unable to add an X10 address to their new ones.
http://www.smarthome.com/2476S/SwitchLinc-Relay-INSTEON-Remote-Control-On-Off-Switch-Non-Dimming-White/p.aspx
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B:(
Not good. I was planning on slowly migrating to Insteon. Looks like I'll have to speed things up.
Makes sense since the Smarthome X10 modules have disappeared from their site in the last few weeks.
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Smartlabs recently started shipping their Insteon Modules with the I2CS improved Insteon protocol.
My thoughts are X10 support got in the way or they ran out of room in the programming area of the microcontroller to support it.
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Oh CR*P! That not good.
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You might look at the Leviton DHC line, which is X10 compatible. That is what I installed here, and it has been virtually flawless over the last 8 years. The 600W dimmer switch is the HCM06-SW, and the 10A relay switch is the HCS10-1SW.
Jeff
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I also have several Leviton X10 switches which have all worked flawlessly for me but they are even more $ than Insteon.
Plus, try to order one in Canada and you would be shocked! Some are over $130! They have recently come down for some reason though.
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The post on the Smarthome Forum. Now indicates Insteon Gold Line Support. Verified the latest SwitchLinc Relay Modules do not support X10.
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Pretty weird.
One would think, with X10 in trouble, that Smarthome would capitalize on the installed X10 base and X10 weakness by keeping X10 compatibility and heavily market the dual format devices as transitional to ease you from X10 to Insteon.
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Ones from aartech.ca are still described as X10 compatible. Guess I better buy a few
while they have them!
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Thread indicated they where hardware 6.1. I understand the latest on line manual was 5.5 and still included X10 addressing.
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Dave, For a short time they where actually selling re-badged Insteon and Icon modules as X10 compatible. They never even changed the firmware in them. Just removed the six digit Insteon ID Number tag and original model number. Dropped the warranty to 90 days also.
I actually got a $44.99 ToggleLinc Relay re-badged as a model X10WS467 for $19.99. I know a real X10 WS467 dims. Theirs was called a X10WS467D.
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Just got a Switchlinc Relay model Rev 6.0. Manual does not mention X10 addressing.
Testing tonight. Fingers crossed
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The SwitchLinc Relay Manual for 6.0 and above. Says X10 NA.
http://www.smarthome.com/manuals/2476s.pdf
The sales page for the 2476D SwitchLinc Dimmer also says X10 NA.
ApplianceLinc shows out of stock. I have a feeling when it comes back. It to maybe X10 NA.
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Yep. No dice. B:(
Invoice even says Insteon / X10. Guess it's going back for a Leviton.
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I have a feeling Smartlabs didn't update the information to their distributors when they went to the I2CS protocol.
They promised us Developers Group Members that a press release on the new I2CS protocol would be made shortly before they shipped. Well that never happened either. ???
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They promised us Developers Group Members...
I bought the developer license early on (when it was $100) but grew tired of their frequent re-engineering that made earlier devices obsolete. I haven't visited the forum in several years, now.
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I was also an early $99.99 member.
I feel badly for the $249.00 with modules or $199.00 Documentation only members.
Now they charge you a fee if you want to consult with an Insteon Engineer. ???
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I just found out about this "strategic decision" whilst chatting with a salesperson at Smarthome about the new FanLinc, who said:
We are slowly phasing out x10 compatibility in our devices though so any future revisions of this product will probably have no x10 support at all.
When I asked why Smarthome would want to eliminate one of Insteon's flagship features (X10 compatibility), I was told:
Because x10 has announced that they are no longer manufacturing or developing products.
He could not give me a link to any official announcement, and I expect that the news that was revealed within their department or the way it was interpreted was an oversimplified version of the actual initial communication from X10. I sent him the link to this article, and as expected, he had not seen it before:
http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=26297.0
Personally, I think the X10 PLC protocol has a lot of life left in it. Yes, one must take precautions by installing filters and a repeater/phase coupler, and be prepared to tinker periodically. But Insteon also requires this (albeit to a lesser degree), and so do other solutions. Because X10 PLC is now an open standard and has been around so long, it has the best vendor support, best pricing, and largest variety of devices available. Since the protocol is simple and open, it's easy for people without a lot of money or experience to implement in their own designs. In my house, my X10 devices meet my expectations and work very well and I rarely have to troubleshoot. Despite the protocol's vintage, I don't see why I would switch to anything else. (I do understand, however, why the tinkering required might scare away newcomers.) I understand why it is difficult for X10, the company, to base their business on a system that they are no longer in complete control of, but it is still working for many other vendors. Leviton seems to still be going strong with their implementation of X10 in DHC and appears to be designing their own devices now (DHC Green Line) rather than just rebranding X10's products. Smarthome appeared to be capitalizing on the opportunity to fill the void X10 left when one of its factories closed last year by offering X10-only modules again, but it looks like those have all been recently pulled from the web site.
I've been adding some Insteon modules over time and appreciate how well Insteon and X10 devices have gotten along together, but the overwhelming majority of my devices are X10. Dropping X10 support is not the way to get me to jump on board with Insteon. One of the main reasons I invested in Insteon was to have the best of both worlds: the reliability and added features of Smarthome's devices and its next-generation protocol along with the openness and extensibility of X10. Now that this bond has been severed, the only way to make new Insteon devices work with X10 devices in the future is through a computer (or specialized standalone controller, if we ever see one). The lack of X10 support will just cause me to buy less Insteon devices and to seriously evaluate the scenarios under which I am using them now. In those situations where I am using both Insteon and X10 features of a single device, I can expect that functionality to be gone forever if the device ever breaks and needs to be replaced.
Just my position on the matter. I'm curious how many agree with me.
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I also thought the split personality Insteon/X10 devices were ideal, allowing one to mix/match as needed/desired. I'm sure the X10 capability did not add much cost so question why they would abandon this feature. I would think there is an opportunity should X10, indeed, be going away.
Also, if my health holds (a very big if), there will soon be a reasonably priced microcontroller based system that can interface with and translate between various HA protocols, both existing and future ones. See...
- http://davehouston.org/Zarduino.htm
I expect the first production PCBs to go to the fabricator this week.
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Also, if my health holds (a very big if), there will soon be a reasonably priced microcontroller based system that can interface with and translate between various HA protocols, both existing and future ones.
I can't wait to see it, Dave!
I hope your health does hold and you are doing better soon, though not just for that reason. :)
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One more drawback to Smarthome dropping X10 support is that their X10 capable devices were apparently immune to the Duke Energy Smart Meter problems. A few people who were seeing the problem tried Smarthome made modules on the suspect addresses and saw no problems with those modules.
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Well, I guess the next development project should be a X10 to Insteon protocol translator. Maybe Jeff's next generation XTBIIR will be bi-lingual(?) -:)
I bet timing would be a nightmare, however. Can't imagine how dimming would be handled.....well it seemed like a good idea for a moment.
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Well, I guess the next development project should be a X10 to Insteon protocol translator.
See reply #18 above. That's exactly what the ZarduinoTM stack running roZettaTM will do (plus much, much more). I'm not sure what timing issue you think is problematic.
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Maybe Jeff's next generation XTBIIR will be bi-lingual(?) -:)
Sorry, but I have no intent to support the Insteon protocol. In fact, I was working on a prototype for a noise eliminator that would treat Insteon signals just like any other noise, and drive them to null at the panel.
Jeff
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At one time Smartlabs was working on a X10 to Insteon and Insteon to X10 translator.
It was for the older 2414U/S and 2814U PLCs that used their SALadIDE language. It could assembled and downloaded into the PLC.
It never went past early Beta as suspected. X10 Dim and Bright where not handled correctly and we got the code given to us.
Since the 2414U is in the clearance price right now I suspect its days are limited and it can't handle Extended Insteon messaging. The new I2CS or I2 protocols will not work with it anyway.
Simplehomenet makes a X10 to Insteon bridge that also acts like an all house code transceiver.