X10 Community Forum

🔌General Home Automation => Automating Your House => Topic started by: Steevo on January 23, 2014, 12:19:58 PM

Title: Send an off signal automatically after a time passes
Post by: Steevo on January 23, 2014, 12:19:58 PM
I think I saw this discussed here some time ago. 
But for the life of me I can't find it now.

I have a water pump that I turn on manually by an x10 console.
A hot water circulating pump.
I often forget to turn it off.
I was trying to figure out a way to have an x10 off signal sent after an hour, if I forget.
I want to monitor the x10 on signal for that device, and after a delay send an off.

I realize this can be done with a full blown software home automation system, but i thought there was a module that can do it.

Anyone got any simple ideas? I am looking into an arduino solution, but that seems like a lot for what I am trying to do.



Title: Re: Send an off signal automatically after a time passes
Post by: Tuicemen on January 23, 2014, 01:47:44 PM
Create a simple macro with the trigger  the On signal for your water pump.
Add the condition to Delay 1 hour then add the signal to turn off your water pump.
click save and download to the interface if that option is available.
Macros are able to run up to 4 hours in length so the time you wish your water pump to run is no problem.
 >!
Title: Re: Send an off signal automatically after a time passes
Post by: Steevo on January 23, 2014, 01:58:05 PM
Except I was trying to avoid using any big software solution like Activehome.
Title: Re: Send an off signal automatically after a time passes
Post by: Tuicemen on January 23, 2014, 02:10:03 PM
Do you have the SDK or AHP installed?
Can you write a script?
Are you experienced in batch file creating?
AHP is hardly a big software solution.
Title: Re: Send an off signal automatically after a time passes
Post by: Steevo on January 23, 2014, 02:30:18 PM
I have nothing computer controlling X10 installed. 

I realize I could do this with that, this post was asking for a non software solution.
Like some module.

Title: Re: Send an off signal automatically after a time passes
Post by: bkenobi on January 23, 2014, 02:32:08 PM
Are you saying you want to send the command from an X10 module of some kind rather than using a program saved on the CM15A or CM11A?  If so, the only thing I can recommend is using a time delay relay and a Powerflash module (PF284 or PSC01).  But, you'd also probably need a Universal Module (UM506 or PUM01) to receive the start for the timer.  If it were me, I'd get a CM11A or CM15A and program it with AHP and then disconnect it from the PC since you want autonomous.

Alternately, you could get an Arduino and a TW523 (2-way) or PL513 (transmit only) module and a button.  You could code the Arduino to accept the button push and immediately send ON to the pump.  Then, delay 1 hour prior to sending OFF.  This would be cheaper than the Power Flash/time delay relay/Universal Module option.  It would be more expensive than the CM11A or CM15A option probably.  The CM15A/CM11A option is the easiest and cleanest approach.
Title: Re: Send an off signal automatically after a time passes
Post by: Steevo on January 23, 2014, 02:37:48 PM
OK, so those two modules can run autonomous.  
I probably have some of those CM11A or CM15A in my archives.  I'll try that.
Thanks!
Title: Re: Send an off signal automatically after a time passes
Post by: bkenobi on January 23, 2014, 02:41:05 PM
Sorry, I was modifying my response when you posted.
Title: Re: Send an off signal automatically after a time passes
Post by: Steevo on January 23, 2014, 03:36:04 PM
Well, is there a place to download ActiveHome Pro now?
Someone must have archived that stuff.

Title: Re: Send an off signal automatically after a time passes
Post by: Tuicemen on January 23, 2014, 03:39:45 PM
Currently you can only get the European version of AHP from Marmitec (http://www.marmitek.com/en/product/09793)
 >!
Title: Re: Send an off signal automatically after a time passes
Post by: Steevo on January 23, 2014, 03:59:57 PM
You have to buy it?
Title: Re: Send an off signal automatically after a time passes
Post by: Tuicemen on January 23, 2014, 06:06:11 PM
nope
Title: Re: Send an off signal automatically after a time passes
Post by: Steevo on January 23, 2014, 07:29:19 PM
Wow, well thanks.
I got that download.
What's the difference in the euro version?  Is that an important distinction?

I looked in my archives and I found a couple of CM11A, without serial cable.
I found the pintout of the cable at
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/document-preview.aspx?doc_id=50622785

So I guess I will just make a cable. 
Thanks! 


Title: Re: Send an off signal automatically after a time passes
Post by: Brian H on January 24, 2014, 06:03:56 AM
If memory serves me. The CM11A will  not work with the euro version of AHP.
The US version. Added CM11A and CM15K {CM19A with TM751A} support in the later versions. When the CM15A was out of stock and X10WTI was having financial difficulties.

The older Active Home software shipped with the CM11A is still be avilable and is free.
It had Windows XP comm port issues for some users. Can't say if it runs on Vista and newer versions.
Avilable for download here.
http://www.x10.com/software

NOTE: The AHP software listed on the above link. Are installers only and require a download from the X10 servers to install and probably your registration numbers.
Title: Re: Send an off signal automatically after a time passes
Post by: Steevo on January 24, 2014, 10:29:01 AM
If the european version does not support my CM11A this will not work.
Can anyone verify this?  I don't have the CM11A cable yet so i cannot test the european version.
I'll make a cable in the next couple days and test this.

Quote
NOTE: The AHP software listed on the above link.
Are installers only and require a download from the X10 servers
to install and probably your registration numbers.

If that's so then these downloads are worthless, since as someone posted those download servers are down.
Title: Re: Send an off signal automatically after a time passes
Post by: Tuicemen on January 24, 2014, 10:40:56 AM
The down load servers are partially up some downloads which are a full installer will work.
 >!
Title: Re: Send an off signal automatically after a time passes
Post by: Brian H on January 24, 2014, 10:48:19 AM
That is good news.
Any word on needing the original AHP Registration number to work?
Title: Re: Send an off signal automatically after a time passes
Post by: Steevo on January 24, 2014, 11:10:53 AM
Do we know who wrote that software for X10, the AHP stuff?
We should get him to maintain it a little for us.

Title: Re: Send an off signal automatically after a time passes
Post by: Steevo on January 24, 2014, 11:41:51 AM
I found software for the CM11a archived on smarthome here

http://www.smarthome.com/1140/X10-Activehome-CM11A-Computer-Interface-CM11A/p.aspx

There is even a single download.

Is that what I need?
Title: Re: Send an off signal automatically after a time passes
Post by: Tuicemen on January 24, 2014, 12:22:30 PM
That is good news.
Any word on needing the original AHP Registration number to work?

Nothing yet on how they plan to handle AHP registrations.
This may be why those links aren't fully operational
Title: Re: Send an off signal automatically after a time passes
Post by: JeffVolp on January 24, 2014, 12:32:49 PM
Nothing yet on how they plan to handle AHP registrations.
This may be why those links aren't fully operational

It would seem that this should be controlled by the hardware.  I don't think AHP is particularly useful for anything other than the CM11A, CM15A, and the X10 wireless controllers.  Somebody has already spent the money to purchase those items, and it would seem that providing the software to allow them to work as intended would just good business.

I understand that X10WTI sold the plugins separately, but they also often bundled them with the hardware at no extra charge as an enticement.  That is what encouraged me to pick up a CM15A even though we use the Ocelot for our home automation.

Jeff
Title: Re: Send an off signal automatically after a time passes
Post by: Brian H on January 24, 2014, 12:35:30 PM
Yes the 1.42d on the Smarthome site should be fine.
The one on the X10 Software site near the bottom of the list is also the Active Home for the CM11A.
It is the full installation file. No servers or registration needed. Like the newer AHP ones need.
Either one should be fine.
Title: Re: Send an off signal automatically after a time passes
Post by: Steevo on January 24, 2014, 12:56:57 PM
This download site now gives a Magento error.
http://www.x10.com/software
Actually the whole site gives a Magento error today.

It worked yesterday, and I archived everything I thought would be needed there.
Were they using Magento before for their online store, or are they working on that now?

If the Magento is new there is hope, they are rejiggering the company.  
If the Magento is old, well, then it doesn't mean anything.
Title: Re: Send an off signal automatically after a time passes
Post by: Brian H on January 24, 2014, 01:39:24 PM
I just tested both the X10 software site and the Smarthome Site. Both worked correctly.
The one on the Smarthome site should be fine. If the X10 software site is giving you problems.
You are trying to get the Active Home program written for the CM11A and not Active Home Pro that was for the CM15A and later had the CM11A support added. Though it was buggy on a CM11A when X10WTI folded.

I have also seen the Magento error. I believe they write eCommerce software and maybe {I don't have any concrete data on this} the new X10 site uses their software.
Title: Re: Send an off signal automatically after a time passes
Post by: Steevo on January 24, 2014, 02:28:52 PM
That whole site was down earlier today, it's back up now.

Is this the software I need for the CM11a on serial?
ActiveHome
Windows 3.x, 95, 98, ME, NT4, 2000 & XP     Version    Size    Primary    Alternate
1.42    3.44MB    ahsetup.exe    ahsetup.exe

I looked in my archives, I found a brand new color box with activehome software, another CM11a, the needed cable, lamp module, remote control and RF module.   Heh.  Unused.  I bought it maybe 20 years ago and never used it.
Title: Re: Send an off signal automatically after a time passes
Post by: Brian H on January 24, 2014, 03:00:30 PM
Yes that is it.
It is also avilable on the CM11A sales site.
http://www.x10.com/x10-home-automation/interfaces/cm11a.html
Title: Re: Send an off signal automatically after a time passes
Post by: bkenobi on January 24, 2014, 05:04:31 PM
I just checked the link and it did allow me to download ActiveHome (or at least it started, I cancelled the download).
Title: Re: Send an off signal automatically after a time passes
Post by: Steevo on January 24, 2014, 09:02:51 PM
I installed activehome (not pro, 1.42) and it was able to talk to the interface successfully.

I have 5 modules in my window. I changed one to G2 which is my water pump, a 3 prong appliance module.
I click on and off and it does not go on or off.

Now the communications test fails.

I just dunno.

Title: Re: Send an off signal automatically after a time passes
Post by: HA Dave on January 24, 2014, 09:19:32 PM
I installed activehome (not pro, 1.42) and it was able to talk to the interface successfully.

I have 5 modules in my window. I changed one to G2 which is my water pump, a 3 prong appliance module.
I click on and off and it does not go on or off.

Now the communications test fails.

Just how do you "click on and off"? A console remote (on the same phase) would control the appliance module... with or without the CM11A. A wireless remote.... only sends RF and can't be received by a CM11A (which has no RF capabilities).
Title: Re: Send an off signal automatically after a time passes
Post by: Steevo on January 24, 2014, 09:26:26 PM
I clicked the on/off switch on the screen for G2.  Ya know, G2 in green at the bottom.
Is that supposed to send a command to G2 from the attached serial CM11a?

I have a couple of mini consoles in the house that I use successfully to control that appliance module.

I admit I have no experience with activehome.  I have no wireless remote in  use, but there was one in the box I took the CM11a from. Nothing to do with this.


Title: Re: Send an off signal automatically after a time passes
Post by: Brian H on January 25, 2014, 06:28:52 AM
When you in the Active Home Program.
Clicking on the module icon to send an On and Off. The modules icon turned Green in the program but the module did not respond?
Have you tried one of the X10 mini consoles that do control the module. In the same outlet the CM11A is in?
So you can see if there is a power line communications issue to the module.

Is the CM11A in the same outlet as the computer equipment or on an UPS?
Computer and UPS units are known to effect X10 power line signals.

Serial communications error from the computer to the CM11A.
If you are you running XP?
Try the following.
Right Click on the Active Home Icon
Open Properties choice.
Open the Compatibility choice.
Enable Run this program in compatibility mode for. Windows 98/Windows ME
Disable Visual Themes.
Turn Off Advanced text services for this program.
Title: Re: Send an off signal automatically after a time passes
Post by: Brian H on January 25, 2014, 06:32:50 AM
If you need the Active Home Manual I found it here as the X10 wiki's link is busted.
http://files.buyitsellit.com/8181/CK11A.pdf

There is some good information on the Active Home Kit in the X10 wiki.
http://kbase.x10.com/wiki/ActiveHome

The kit came with a UR19A remote and RR501 transceiver to use it. Though in your case not used right now.
Title: Re: Send an off signal automatically after a time passes
Post by: Steevo on January 25, 2014, 11:40:14 AM
At the moment I have serial communiation failure in the test communications.  
It worked for a while yesterday.  Now not.

A reboot of the computer didn't fix it.  Unplugging the serial, the CM11a and taking batteries out didn't fix it.
So I dunno.  I have to resolve this before I can do anything else.
I made the compatibility mode changes Brian H posted and now communication is successful.
Hmm.

So I restated Activehome and my changes are gone, I didn't save them so no surprise there.
I clicked one of the macros in the window, changed it to G2 at the bottom, the water pump module.
It is set for module type three wire appliance.
I click the switch in the window, it changes, but the module does not respond.

To test I plugged a miniconsole that was plugged in the bathroom and worked into the power strip by the computer and it will not control the water pump module now.  So I have a X10 communications problem.  
This is progress!  

I need to relocate the CM11a somewhere so it can control the module for the water pump.  I will work on that.
If I can get the macro done I will plug it in the same socket as the appliance module in the garage and it will just run from then on.  Can I plug the appliance module right into the CM11a?

Thanks for all the help.  You guys are great, you have been there before!  
Title: Re: Send an off signal automatically after a time passes
Post by: Steevo on January 25, 2014, 12:17:25 PM
I plugged the CM11a in right next to the miniconsole that does control the water pump, and it will not change the appliance module by on screen control.

It's supposed to, right? I click the toggle switch in the gray box macro and it changes from off to on.  That is supposed to send an X10 signal to G2, it says G2 at the bottom.  

I can change the house code to G by changing the green A2 to G2 on the activehome screen, right? I'm just not sure.

Well, I deleted some confusing extra macros, defined a new G2, and now it does control the appliance module, after a 7 second delay.

So what I need to tell it is to watch for a G2 on, wait a time period and send a G2 off.  
Download the to the CM11A and I am done.

I don't exactly understand how the macros work.  
I did that time delay, actually 1 minute for testing,  clicked exit and download and I get a message there are no macros to download, do I want to clear memory.  Hmm.

I sent an on to G2 from the miniconsole, and sure enough the on screen switch changed.
I waited and in a minute it went off.
The on screen switch says on still, but the module did go off. I click on screen, it goes off, click again, it goes on after an 8 second delay.  I waited and it did not go off after one minute, so I guess the macro does not run if I turn it on with the on screen switch.  It did seem to run when I used the miniconsole, so that monitoring of the line is working.

I still get a message when i click download to interface that there is nothing to download, do i want to clear memory.
I just read through the wiki, it has an entry that says "Why do my timers only run if my computer is on?"
There is a check box for store in interface, but there is none in my time delay. There is one in the scheduled timers.
Is it possible to store a delay in the interface? Or just schedules?

But progress here!  This is great.  

Title: Re: Send an off signal automatically after a time passes
Post by: Brian H on January 25, 2014, 01:02:29 PM
I believe Macros can't be downloaded and have to run from the computer.
Timers that run a set times and Dusk Dawn information. Can be downloaded to the CM11A and then run with the computer Off.
Title: Re: Send an off signal automatically after a time passes
Post by: Steevo on January 25, 2014, 01:05:52 PM
So the CM11a cannot monitor for an X10 G2 on, wait a period and send an X10 G2 off autonomous.

Well, that was the whole point. 

Is there another solution?
Title: Re: Send an off signal automatically after a time passes
Post by: bkenobi on January 25, 2014, 01:42:59 PM
I thought a big part of the reason to use the CM11A was the timer/macro downloading.  Are you sure the controller can't do macros?  Obviously it can't do smart macros since that's AHP only.
Title: Re: Send an off signal automatically after a time passes
Post by: bkenobi on January 25, 2014, 01:46:16 PM
http://www.smarthome.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=889

This thread (first one I found on Google, so there are certainly more/better available).  This seems to indicate that with AH 1.4 and CM11A you can have macros stored on the interface if you select "fast".  I've never used AH, so I can't help beyond that.
Title: Re: Send an off signal automatically after a time passes
Post by: Brian H on January 25, 2014, 02:02:31 PM
I never used macros with my CM11A with Active Home.
I would try a Fast Macro and see if it will download.
I found a help file and it indicated Fast Macros run faster as they are stored in the interface.
Due to limited memory. Use Fast Macros wisely.

Is the G2 On being sent by the CM11A or another controller?
Title: Re: Send an off signal automatically after a time passes
Post by: dhouston on January 25, 2014, 02:45:52 PM
From memory, I believe the CM11A could do simple macros.

I had links to all of the X10 protocols on my web page but they are all broken now that the servers are gone. It would be very useful if Authinx could restore the X10 manuals web page.
Title: Re: Send an off signal automatically after a time passes
Post by: JeffVolp on January 25, 2014, 06:43:01 PM
Yes, the CM11A would do simple macros.  The CM11A protocol document says it has a 42-byte buffer for "fast macros".  They may be stored in RAM because there the protocol document says:

If the interface detects that it has suffered a power-down situation, it will ring the PC and poll with a specialized code to indicate that the macros must be refreshed.

Jeff
Title: Re: Send an off signal automatically after a time passes
Post by: bkenobi on January 25, 2014, 06:51:33 PM
perhapse that's something that Steevo should consider.  If the CM11A loses power and the batteries run out, the macro will be lost and the pump will not be turned off automatically (until the unit is connected to the pc for reprogramming.  if the pump running when it shouldn't is a safety concern, then maybe smething needs to be considered to take care of this scenario.
Title: Re: Send an off signal automatically after a time passes
Post by: Steevo on January 25, 2014, 07:50:59 PM
The pump can run all the time, that's the problem.  Mostly a hot water circulating pump runs continuously, but here in California with Edison charging us 32 cents/KWH I have no interest in that much heat loss.  I have an all electric home and it's expensive not having gas.  It's pointless having instant hot water when you're gone for the weekend.  That happened a couple weeks ago. I got home and it was on.  Waiting to see the bill.  Geez.

As to storage of macros in the interface, according to the help yes, and they are stored in the interface EEPROM, so that would be non volatile.

I need to figure out how to define that macro and send it to the interface.  
My communications is now all resolved, but I don't really understand what's going on with Activehome.  
The macro functions are more than a little odd.  But heck, I am no programmer.  It's been years since I programmed at all.
Not that Activehome is programming, really.  

So I still have the serial connected to the computer, I defined a macro to listen to G2 on, a 1 minute delay, (for testing) and send a G2 off.  I made it a fast macro and I was able to download it to the interface.  But it's not working.  I click on at the miniconsole, the pump goes on, and nothing else happens.
Title: Re: Send an off signal automatically after a time passes
Post by: bkenobi on January 25, 2014, 09:45:01 PM
Just for reference, a circulation pump is typically 25W (from a Google search, not personal experience).  If you are charged $0.32/kWh all the time (no peak time upcharges), then you would be paying $0.19/day or ~$70/year to run the pump full time.  If you use X10 modules to control the pump, each module uses at least 3W, so that's at least 6W for the pump controlling module and the CM11A.  If you already own the equipment, then you don't have to invest in these components, but the modules cost a lot more these days than way back when.  Google says the CM11A costs $25-50 and a relay module will be $20-40.  If you want to keep the CM11A next to your computer (even if not plugged in), you will need a filter ($25-40) and/or a phase coupler ($25-over $100 depending on unit).  Basically, you are looking at $100-300 worth of equipment to save up to $70/year.

Alternately, you could use a plug-in 24-hour timer ($10) and never think about it again.  Automation is not always the most appropriate solution if saving money is the primary driver.  Since you already have the equipment in house, you might as well give it a try, but I would seriously consider just using a timer and setting it to turn the circulation on in the morning and evening for around an hour each.
Title: Re: Send an off signal automatically after a time passes
Post by: Steevo on January 25, 2014, 09:48:51 PM

It's not the power to run the pump, it's the heat loss from the tank. Electric hot water heater.

My pump is the most common type, and it is labeled 75W.

I had such a time clock controlling it before. That didn't work out so well.  I might go back to that. I'd rather find something more dynamic.
Title: Re: Send an off signal automatically after a time passes
Post by: bkenobi on January 25, 2014, 09:58:37 PM
I have a mechanical timer on my hot water heater.  I believe they cost around $50-100.  It was installed when I bought the house, so I don't know about this one specifically.  I actually disabled it soon after moving in because it was causing a vibration that I didn't like (electronic would have eliminated this, but that would require replacing the unit).  I was expecting to see a big hit to my electricity bill, but found that not to be the case.  In reality, if you have a modern water heater, the water gets up to temp and holds pretty well without much extra power.  If you have an older tank, that might be different, but adding insulation can help.

I don't have experience with recirculation setups, but the biggest thing that would cause heat loss would be the uninsulated water pipes acting as a heat exchanger to cool the water.  I actually read one article that claimed that a circulation pump never works out to a cost savings even if you already have the pump installed.  I don't know from personal experience, but there are a lot of things like this that don't actually work the way the marketing tells us they should.
Title: Re: Send an off signal automatically after a time passes
Post by: JeffVolp on January 25, 2014, 10:11:33 PM
The water circulation pump isn't necessarily to save energy, it is for convenience and water economy.  We have hot water immediately at all faucets and showers.  Before I installed that it would take about 30 seconds of wasted water before hot water reached the opposite end of the house from the water heater.

I thoroughly insulated all hot water pipes, and run the circulation pump just 70 seconds every 15 minutes except during the night.  That guarantees instant hot water anywhere in the house at any time of the day.

Jeff
Title: Re: Send an off signal automatically after a time passes
Post by: Steevo on January 26, 2014, 12:40:56 PM
While I appreciate the comments, this thread is about using X10 automation to turn the pump off if I forget.  Not about installing another mechanical timer. I have a mechanical timer, I already know how to install and use it.  But that's not why I posted.

The energy savings desired are from turning the system off when it's not needed in a more dynamic way than using a mechanical timer. 
Title: Re: Send an off signal automatically after a time passes
Post by: Brian H on January 26, 2014, 02:02:59 PM
Did you have a chance to try a Fast Macro?
That you should be able to download into the CM11A?

Was the On command being sent by the CM11A or another controller?
Not sure if an On command from the CM11A can be used to also start the Macro.
 
Title: Re: Send an off signal automatically after a time passes
Post by: Steevo on January 26, 2014, 05:15:56 PM
I did try, I reported it yesterday.

So I still have the serial connected to the computer, I defined a macro to listen to G2 on, a 1 minute delay, (for testing) and send a G2 off.  I made it a fast macro and I was able to download it to the interface.  But it's not working.  

I click on at the miniconsole, the pump goes on, and nothing else happens. It does not turn off in one minute.

The macro is not working, or it did not receive the on command from the miniconsole.  
The miniconsole is connected to the same outlet as the CM11a.
The commands sent from the miniconsole are able to reliably turn the pump in the garage on and off. I can hear it when it's quiet.

I can indeed send commands to the pump from the CM11a with the on screen toggle, but that is not how I tried to start the macro. I used the miniconsole for that.
Title: Re: Send an off signal automatically after a time passes
Post by: Steevo on January 26, 2014, 05:26:53 PM
Clearly the macro is not monitoring G2 for the on signal.
I am looking at activehome.

I just deleted my macro.  I had only one.  Now none, but a list of installed modules on the right, one is G2 and called water pump. A couple are called global, what are those?
I just created a new fast macro.
I tried to call it G2, but it says address G2 is already allocated. 
Well, yeah, it's an installed module. I need to monitor G2 for an on to trigger the macro.
I have no other macros.  I deleted them all.

Does the macro I create need to be G2 so it can monitor G2?
It won't let me create a fast macro and call it G2.
Or is there something I don't understand.  Likely.

Title: Re: Send an off signal automatically after a time passes
Post by: Steevo on January 27, 2014, 01:32:48 AM
Maybe I need a macro called G1, that when monitored sends a G2 on, and after a delay a G2 off?
Hmm.

As I said, I don't know the first thing about Activehome. 
Sorry for all the questions.
Title: Re: Send an off signal automatically after a time passes
Post by: Brian H on January 27, 2014, 06:25:28 AM
I never used the macro feature in Active Home.
I only had downloaded timers for light controls. So I am in the dark so to speak myself.
Try a G1 Macro and see if it can do what you want.
Keep the questions coming. It may jog someones memory.
Title: Re: Send an off signal automatically after a time passes
Post by: Steevo on January 27, 2014, 11:04:44 AM
Create a simple macro with the trigger  the On signal for your water pump.
Add the condition to Delay 1 hour then add the signal to turn off your water pump.
click save and download to the interface if that option is available.
Macros are able to run up to 4 hours in length so the time you wish your water pump to run is no problem.
 >!

Tuicemen, the display I have is not like the AHP one you posted. I have activehome, not pro.
Can this be done with the activehome that I have, or do I need the pro version?
I sure don't understand the macros in acthivehome. I don't see the triggers, but in AHP the trigger was obvious.

Does activehome even have triggers?

I am looking into getting ahp running, I downloaded the marmitek version but it's unclear whether it supports my cm11a.

BTW, I registered for your forums but the registration email was not received. I registered for smarthome's forums and that was received.  I have no explanation, but I've seen that problem before on forum emails.


Title: Re: Send an off signal automatically after a time passes
Post by: Steevo on January 27, 2014, 12:14:19 PM
Well, I figured it out.
I made a macro G1.  Added a module G2 with an immediate on
Now when I press G1 on on the miniconsole the interface sends a G2 on to the water pump with no delay.
That all works.
I put a .01 delay on the module in the macro, and used test, it does send an on after a 1 minute delay.  
That works.

What i have not figured out is how to add another macro step to happen after a 1 hour delay to send a G2 off.
How can an activehome macro be only one step?

Oh, I figured it out.
I grabbed another G2 module from the right pane and put it below the current G2 module in the left side, there's my second step. Duh!
I put a .03 delay off on it.  
Downloaded to interface.  Sent a G1 on from the miniconsole.
It turned on, and a few minutes later off.

It worked.
I just changed the delay off to .45, downloaded to interface.
I think it all works.  Dang.

Title: Re: Send an off signal automatically after a time passes
Post by: Steevo on January 27, 2014, 10:54:32 PM
Ya know, I did all that and it worked.  
Came home later, and I can't talk to the interface.
I did test communications, fails.

I unload communications, quit activehome, loop back the serial and test with hyperterminal, and it echos.
Working,  Take the loopback off, quit hyperterminal, restart activehome, load communications, test and it still fails.
Quit activehome, start again, still fails communications.
I unplug the cm11a, take the batteries out, disconnect serial.  Unload communications.
Restart activehome, plug everything back in, and it still fails communications.

I quit activehome again, looped serial back, tested with hyperterminal, it works.
Quit hyperterminal, plugged the cm11a back in and start activehome again, it still doesn't work.
What do I have to do? Reboot?  This all hung up during the day while I was gone.

What the heck is so buggy about this serial stuff?  Is it this bad?  Geez.

 

 
Title: Re: Send an off signal automatically after a time passes
Post by: Steevo on January 28, 2014, 02:23:27 AM
I rebooted, serial communication test still fails.
I rebooted again, unplugged the cm11a, took it's battery out, unplugged it's serial cable.
Still fails.

I just tried to use the macro I had defined from a miniconsole and it didn't turn on the pump.  Ah ha!
The module is the problem.
I changed out the cm11a for another one.
This one does respond on serial.

I will let it run a couple days and see if it stays reliable.


Title: Re: Send an off signal automatically after a time passes
Post by: dhouston on January 28, 2014, 06:52:26 AM
  If you use X10 modules to control the pump, each module uses at least 3W...
Most modules use less than 1W when idle.
Title: Re: Send an off signal automatically after a time passes
Post by: bkenobi on January 28, 2014, 10:40:51 AM
  If you use X10 modules to control the pump, each module uses at least 3W...
Most modules use less than 1W when idle.
  • http://davehouston.org/x10-sig.htm
Interesting.  I quoted 3W from an old thread on this forum, but I don't know how they calculated it.  Having actual data is much nicer!  The only thing I'd say is that these are for plug in modules and not the wired in ones that I thought was being referenced before (WS467 IIRC).  Those modules pass power through the load circuit since they are non-neutral modules.  Either way, this is for a pump which would not be controlled through the load so it's probably not consistent.
Title: Re: Send an off signal automatically after a time passes
Post by: Steevo on January 31, 2014, 10:34:29 PM
The other CM11A quit talking, failed communications. It also would not respond to the commands I sent from the miniconsole. As you recall I have downloaded a fast macro to the interface.

I power cycled it and rebooted the computer and it works again.
Are those CM11A's known to fail? I have one more, I can try another.
I really need this to be reliable.

As to the power drain of the x10 modules, that was never a concern. 
It was only the water heater power drain I want to avoid.



Title: Re: Send an off signal automatically after a time passes
Post by: HA Dave on January 31, 2014, 10:56:58 PM
The other CM11A quit talking......... It also would not respond to the commands I sent from the miniconsole. As you recall I have downloaded a fast macro to the interface.

I power cycled it and rebooted the computer and it works again.

A macro with a repeating loop..... can tie-up and stall the CM11A. An example would be: A1 triggering B2, with B2 then triggering A1. So the macro runs repeatedly forever and nothing else can work. You may have created a bad macro.
Title: Re: Send an off signal automatically after a time passes
Post by: Steevo on January 31, 2014, 11:15:41 PM
Well, I don't think I have that, and I don't see how that can work. When I tried to make a macro G2 which was my module, it wouldn't let me.  So I have two Macros for G1, one on and one off.  The G1 on sends a G2 on and 45 minutes later a G2 off.  The G1 off sends a G2 off.  And that's it. 

It doesn't seem possible to make a loop. I got an error message when I tried.  This is with Activehome, not pro.
Title: Re: Send an off signal automatically after a time passes
Post by: Brian H on February 01, 2014, 09:01:11 AM
There is some information on the CM11A reliability on this web site.
http://www.idobartana.com/hakb/index.htm
You can see the topics avilable in the Left Pane.
CM11A Reliability is one of the choices.
Another choice is an overheating CM11A.

Was the CM11A unresponsive if you just rebooted the computer and did not cycle the CM11As power?
As there are know issues with some serial communications to it when using Windows XP. Even with the Compatibility settings.
Title: Re: Send an off signal automatically after a time passes
Post by: Steevo on February 02, 2014, 10:31:37 AM
I don't think it's a serial communications issue with the CM11a.

It didn't respond to the miniconsole commands either. 
I think the whole module stopped working. 
Title: Re: Send an off signal automatically after a time passes
Post by: Brian H on February 02, 2014, 06:34:33 PM
It does sound like it is locked up and not a serial communications issue.

The CM11A is connected to the computer when it happens?

If it is not connected to the computer. Is the serial cable hanging off of the CM11A. I have seen reports that a loose serial cable hanging from the CM11A can cause it to go to sleep so to speak.
Title: Re: Send an off signal automatically after a time passes
Post by: Steevo on February 02, 2014, 07:44:47 PM
It's connected to the computer.
It hasn't happened again.