X10 Community Forum

General Category => General Discussion => X10 Product Wish List => Topic started by: dave w on August 22, 2014, 03:25:31 PM

Title: WiFi module
Post by: dave w on August 22, 2014, 03:25:31 PM
Anyone know how the WiFi X10 module development is coming along? I'm anxious!
Title: Re: WiFi module
Post by: dhouston on August 22, 2014, 04:47:01 PM
No, but with big players (e.g. Samsung) entering this market every day, it's likely to a day late and a dollar short.
The one I'm watching is Belkin which has light bulbs, lamp modules, appliance modules and more that all use WiFi directly.
Title: Re: WiFi module
Post by: HA Dave on August 22, 2014, 10:20:04 PM
Anyone know how the WiFi X10 module development is coming along? I'm anxious!

No, but with big players (e.g. Samsung) entering this market every day, it's likely to a day late and a dollar short.

I am also "anxious"... and slightly frustrated with the waiting. Technology moves a bit too quickly for these delays. Day late... and dollar short.. indeed.
Title: Re: WiFi module
Post by: Tuicemen on August 26, 2014, 10:58:55 AM
Anyone know how the WiFi X10 module development is coming along? I'm anxious!
Last I heard a new prototype was being sent to X10 for testing and approval. I hope to hear more shortly.
No, but with big players (e.g. Samsung) entering this market every day, it's likely to a day late and a dollar short.
  • http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2014/08/14/samsung-smartthings-smart-home/14092865/
The one I'm watching is Belkin which has light bulbs, lamp modules, appliance modules and more that all use WiFi directly.
I've tried Belkin Wi-Fi lamp modules but wasn't impressed however I'm sure software will improve to give more options.
I think the new X10 Wi-Fi unit will be a hit as it will talk with most existing x10 devices.
Combining it with a cm15 will give it lots of possibilities.
Title: Re: WiFi module
Post by: dave w on August 26, 2014, 05:38:57 PM
No, but with big players (e.g. Samsung) entering this market every day, it's likely to a day late and a dollar short.
Yeah, I undertand. But (new) X10 still has a large established user base, which gives them a slight initial advantage once the product hits the market. I think this device might revitalize X10. Hopefully there is some progress taking place.
Title: Re: WiFi module
Post by: dhouston on August 26, 2014, 06:07:33 PM
I think this device might revitalize X10. Hopefully there is some progress taking place.
I hope you are right about the revitalization but, at this point, I would not recommend X10 to anyone who doesn't already have it. Long range, direct control via WiFi is certain to be less problematic than X10's 40 year old PLC.
Title: Re: WiFi module
Post by: Walt2 on September 19, 2014, 02:39:47 PM
There is the European Marmitek TIP10RF.     It does Ethernet to X10 RF.    Basically, plugging into your WiFi router on a wired Ethernet jack found on most of them.   If you can manage Port Forwarding, it can allow control from anywhere from your smartphone.   They offer Android and iPhone apps for it.   

Though, I am sure it complies with the European X10 specs.   We here in the US would need someone to make one that complies with US X10 specs.
Title: Re: WiFi module
Post by: dhouston on September 19, 2014, 04:01:10 PM
In the past, I was able to help some Europeans convert RF devices from 310MHz to 433.92MHz so they could buy cheaper US devices and modify them for European use. I was also able to convert the European temperature monitor/thermostat to use here. In these cases, all that was needed was to replace the RF transmitter module.

That's not likely to work here as, IIRC, both X10 and WiFi frequencies are different for Europe.

There are more and more companies introducing comprehensive systems (Harmony just did so.) that work with a multitude of vendors. The one vendor missing from all is X10.

I'm a quadriplegic (classified by the VA as catastrophically disabled) and am more and more finding the need to move beyond X10 to something more integrated and reliable. I am leaning towards Belkin's WeMo as I've extensive experience with their WiFi gear and figure they will get things right, eventually. And, there are no range issues with any of my multiple WiFi devices.

The holdup is both expense (WeMo devices are rather costly) and the lack of remote control (beyond phones/tablets). I now have an X10 RF remote (or more) in each room and can control all of my X10 devices (much more limited these days) with them. I also have a minitimer that turns my lights on in the morning and evening. I sure do not want or need both X10 remotes and WiFi-capable tablets in multiple locations.

Unless the new X10 gets their heads out of their *sses and addresses the need to integrate with newer WiFi based systems, methinks they won't last long.  Selling replacement modules to the oldtimers here won't cut it long range.  
Title: Re: WiFi module
Post by: dave w on September 19, 2014, 05:08:48 PM
Unless the new X10 gets their heads out of their *sses and addresses the need to integrate with newer WiFi based systems, methinks they won't last long.  Selling replacement modules to the oldtimers here won't cut it long range.  
Yeah, Dave, I tend to agree. I go to Verizon store or Best Buy and I see Phillips, Belkin, etc. displays. The only folks who know anything about X10 are the current users from old. Even "Plug-N-Power" doesn't even ring a bell anymore.

I wish "new" X10 success, but they have a steep slope to climb. Maybe we could get Jack Ma interested.
Title: Re: WiFi module
Post by: Walt2 on September 19, 2014, 05:09:21 PM
I'm a quadriplegic (classified by the VA as catastrophically disabled) and am more and more finding the need to move beyond X10 to something more integrated and reliable. I am leaning towards Belkin's WeMo as I've extensive experience with their WiFi gear and figure they will get things right, eventually. And, there are no range issues with any of my multiple WiFi devices.

The holdup is both expense (WeMo devices are rather costly) and the lack of remote control (beyond phones/tablets). I now have an X10 RF remote (or more) in each room and can control all of my X10 devices (much more limited theses days) with them. I also have a minitimer that turns my lights on in the morning and evening. I sure do not want or need both X10 remotes and WiFi-capable tablets in multiple locations.

Unless the new X10 gets their heads out of their *sses and addresses the need to integrate with newer WiFi based systems, methinks they won't last long.  Selling replacement modules to the oldtimers here won't cut it long range.  

I thought the Belkin's WeMo's were pretty interesting.  Unfortunately, the number of different kinds of modules is rather limited, and I don't see that changing.  

Plus, I own a Belkin product, and find they like to abandon/drop products without notice.   That includes removing/deleting the product's sections from their support forums (which precludes peer to peer support too).  That doesn't give me much confidence to start to invest in their WeMo's.

What I would like to see, from what ever is next in home automation, is a bridge.    Something that would allow support for both X10 and what-ever-that's-new simultaneously.   So, that my existing X10 modules would continue to work, until I ultimately get to replace them, one by one.
Title: Re: WiFi module
Post by: Walt2 on September 19, 2014, 05:14:25 PM
Yeah, Dave, I tend to agree. I go to Verizon store or Best Buy and I see Phillips, Belkin, etc. displays. The only folks who know anything about X10 are the current users from old. Even "Plug-N-Power" doesn't even ring a bell anymore.

I wish "new" X10 success, but they have a steep slope to climb. Maybe we could get Jack Ma interested.

Even though Homelink is still in new cars, Homelink's support/connection into X10 is long gone.

I think the "new" X10 future is limited to supporting just us.  And honestly, I buy few new modules anymore.
Title: Re: WiFi module
Post by: dave w on September 19, 2014, 05:51:34 PM
What I would like to see, from what ever is next in home automation, is a bridge.    Something that would allow support for both X10 and what-ever-that's-new simultaneously.   So, that my existing X10 modules would continue to work, until I ultimately get to replace them, one by one.
You might look at Homeseer.  I use Homeseer2.xx which talks X10, Z-Wave, UPB. Homeseer 3 is out and supposedly talks to a far greater audience, and has plug-ins for numoruos ancillary systems. I have had good luck with 2.xx but am unwilling to pay the high cost of upgrade since it buys me little. Howver you might be interested since Homeseer can act as a bridge between various systems. $0.02
Title: Re: WiFi module
Post by: dhouston on September 19, 2014, 06:03:02 PM
What I would like to see, from what ever is next in home automation, is a bridge.
Essentially, that's what I was suggesting but I don't see any of those currently offering integrated systems offering a bridge to X10 so it will likely be up to the new X10 and I don't think they are interested. Adding WiFi to something like the CM15A is very doable and very affordable but, again, the new X10 is unlikely to go there.

Another bridge possibility is HomeControlGenie running on the Pi B+ but that's likely to be more DIYey than is generally acceptable here. I was getting there with Zarduino but my health issues have deep-sixed that.
Title: Re: WiFi module
Post by: dave w on July 16, 2017, 05:27:06 PM
Anyone know how the WiFi X10 module development is coming along?
:'    >*<     B:(    rofl   
Title: Re: WiFi module
Post by: HA Dave on July 16, 2017, 06:39:41 PM
What I would like to see, from what ever is next in home automation, is a bridge.

Essentially, that's what I was suggesting but I don't see any of those currently offering integrated systems offering a bridge to X10 so it will likely be up to the new X10 and I don't think they are interested. Adding WiFi to something like the CM15A is very doable and very affordable but, again, the new X10 is unlikely to go there.

Another bridge possibility is HomeControlGenie running on the Pi B+ but that's likely to be more DIYey than is generally acceptable here. I was getting there with Zarduino but my health issues have deep-sixed that.

My [Homeseer] Hometroller is just a Pi (in a case) it uses downloaded drivers and apps... and uses the CM15A as a plugin. For local control... everything remains local using the Pi's (and the CM15A's) firmware on my own home network. But for those who want more (and who doesn't want more) The unit is also cloud friendly (with no fee's).

It's an excellent bridge/device. I use my X10 from anywhere (although rarely, if ever, is that needed)... and it makes my X10 work with Alexa/Amazon. I have even (easily) created cross-protocol automation devices to work together in a macro/robot/program.

This video... demonstrates how I tell Alexa to turn the "Bedtime Lights Out". (https://youtu.be/8iI_sZRipSQ)Alexa uses the Cloud/Web to determine which lights are in the "Bedtime room"... and sends signals to do that. The "bedtime room" contains an X10 false/phantom device which's triggers a macro (turning a small light on... than off... 3 minutes later) Accomplished using the Hometroller (Homeseer Pi device) + the CM15A as a plugin. The Bedtime room also contains an ihome module/device (kitchen light controlled directly by the Alexa/amazon device), as well as the Cree wifi bulb beside my chair (controlled via a Wink hub).

If we pile on the hubs.... we can do anything!

You might look at Homeseer.  I use Homeseer2.xx which talks X10, Z-Wave, UPB. Homeseer 3 is out and supposedly talks to a far greater audience, and has plug-ins for numoruos ancillary systems. I have had good luck with 2.xx but am unwilling to pay the high cost of upgrade since it buys me little. Howver you might be interested since Homeseer can act as a bridge between various systems. $0.02

You had the answer... all along.
Title: Re: WiFi module
Post by: Tuicemen on July 16, 2017, 06:58:23 PM
Anyone know how the WiFi X10 module development is coming along?
:'    >*<     B:(    rofl
Last I heard the software(app) was the hold up.
I suspect once that is ready it will reveal issues with the Hardware ( at least that's what happened with the first proto type) B:(
Hopefully the protocol is made available and end users will be able to create a software comparable to AHP.
Currently I've implemented a BroadLink RM into my setup since this will learn and send X10 RF as well as other RF & IR devices. It is looking like the X10 Wi-Fi module will be obsolete before it is released (at least for me)  :(
Title: Re: WiFi module
Post by: bkenobi on July 17, 2017, 11:17:08 AM
I wanted the WiFi module years ago (3-4 now I guess).  But, I've been happy with my RPi setup which connects to a CM15A and to my network (including WiFi and internet) so I have little need for a X10 to WiFi bridge at this point.  If it was available 3-4 years ago, I'm sure I would be using it today as the main link.  Today I find it too little, too late.  But, maybe the specs will prove me wrong.  Don't know since I've never seen what it's designed to do (other than presumably allow me to turn a light on with my phone...woohoo).
Title: Re: WiFi module
Post by: HA Dave on July 17, 2017, 06:39:35 PM
..... I have little need for a X10 to WiFi bridge at this point. .....
.....Today I find it too little, too late.  But, maybe the specs will prove me wrong.  Don't know since I've never seen what it's designed to do (other than presumably allow me to turn a light on with my phone...woohoo).

Sure... you could say Internet/Wi-Fi control is just a phone used as a remote. Or... you can look at it as computer control... with the computer being your phone. And that same phone can connect to a lot of different stuff... including cloud servers. I am finding that being able to select a little from this protocol and a little from that... is all good.

The guys here... keep coming up with new ways to add/do more stuff with what's available too.

I am using a smorgasbord of connectivity devices with my HA setup. I have an Echo (full sized) as well and the puck-sized DOT. I am using the Z-wave Homeseer Hometroller to control my X10 (mostly using Amazons Alexa) with the CM15A plugin. Of course I still have a (laptop) PC running for control of a CM15A plus BVC (which is still hardwired to speakers). I also have a Wink Hub, and a Chamberlain hub/device to control a light and my garage door. Plus I have my camera server too.

I can control locally... or via the cloud. And if I can add more control... that's even better. I've found some things... I ask Siri about or task her with. Other things I task to, or ask Alexa about. I've read that googles device is smarter and more conversational. I wouldn't mind having Google in the house too. I wouldn't want the NSA to miss anything I might mumble.
Title: Re: WiFi module
Post by: dave w on July 19, 2017, 06:27:02 PM
I have an Echo (full sized) as well and the puck-sized DOT.
I just ordered an Echo and also have the Dot which I want to move outside our bedroom and office doors so I can use Alexa from either room.  However both Echo's will be in ear shot of each other. Do you have any interference problems, or are yours better separated?
Title: Re: WiFi module
Post by: HA Dave on July 19, 2017, 10:56:05 PM
I just ordered an Echo and also have the Dot ..... both Echo's will be in ear shot of each other. Do you have any interference problems, or are yours better separated?

My Dot sets on my side-table next to my easy-chair (in the living room). With the TV on I can whisper to it (but I talk to it normally) and it replies fine. The Echo is 30 feet away, in the next room.

I got the Echo mostly so my wife could listen to (stream) music. It can easily be heard in the kitchen, dining room (where it is located), or even most of the main floor if turned up enough. But the wife listens to music at around level 3 or 4.... which I don't even hear when I am in the living room. BTW only one device can play music at any one time (according to the spec).

If I am in the kitchen (and cooking) I can ask (holler) for Alexa to give me a timer. The closer Echo will ALWAYS reply. The two devices will talk to each other and determine which one is closest to me.... and that is the device that will reply and play the timer alarm. [But because the wife keeps the volume level set low... I have to remember to assign Alexa to higher volume level].

They really don't seem to have any problem figuring out which one I am talking to. If I stand in the doorway between them and ask for todays weather forecast I will get the reply from the one I am looking... in the direction of. I am confident I could set both in the same (large) room and get reply's from the device I look at

These things are addictive! I am thinking about adding one in the bedroom to use as an alarm. And I wouldn't mind having one downstairs too. You know... they make wall mounts for the Dots. Maybe next time they have a price cut......
Title: Re: WiFi module
Post by: HA Dave on July 20, 2017, 07:46:58 PM
.......... BTW only one device can play music at any one time (according to the spec)...........

That guy has no idea what he's posting. I just tried playing/streaming on both of mine at the same time... and it worked fine.  :'
Title: Re: WiFi module
Post by: dave w on July 22, 2017, 12:06:56 PM
These things are addictive! I am thinking about adding one in the bedroom to use as an alarm. And I wouldn't mind having one downstairs too. You know... they make wall mounts for the Dots. Maybe next time they have a price cut......
I stumbled on to a YouTube of some "tech" adding battery packs to both an Echo and a Dot. He had them together on a table. When he called "Alexa" and gave a command, (what is the weather?) both units lit up but only the Echo would respond, the Dot would go dark. Obviously Amazon anticipated multiple units in a home. Which means with the next "sale" there will be a Dot downstairs. I think Tuicemen said you could use them as intercoms(?)
Thanks for the info!!
Title: Re: WiFi module
Post by: HA Dave on July 22, 2017, 07:21:41 PM
........ I think Tuicemen said you could use them as intercoms(?)

Yep... and as a phone/calling phone-like device (https://www.amazon.com/b/ref=s9_acss_bw_en_odsaug_d_1_3_w?_encoding=UTF8&node=16713667011&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=merchandised-search-2&pf_rd_r=PQQENWQJ67WHGPWJD9BZ&pf_rd_r=PQQENWQJ67WHGPWJD9BZ&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=3bc2c508-e30b-4f2b-b0f6-1445d6fcebbe&pf_rd_p=3bc2c508-e30b-4f2b-b0f6-1445d6fcebbe&pf_rd_i=16067214011). I tested the calling part to a cell-phone.... but haven't tested the intercom part yet.