X10 Community Forum
💬General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Tuicemen on February 02, 2016, 02:55:45 PM
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I have to admit I also thought about this at one time.
My reason?
To be truthful I don't even remember anymore B:( it certainly wasn't reliability, that has never been a factor here.
With Authinx working at improving all modules reliability shouldn't be a factor to anyone anymore.
So I'm wondering if your thinking about abandoning X10 or all ready have what is/was your reason?
I know there are other devices I'd like in my setup that X10 doesn't offer (maybe that was my reason for thinking about dumping it) ::)
Word is Authinx has some new product ideas in the pipeline though I have no details on what these may be.
Also given the time it is taking the Wi-Fi module to come to market I'm unsure if I'll even see these.
If you already abandoned X10 what would make you take another look?
If you had X10 and returned to using it, Why?
That may be the most helpful to others thinking of jumping ship.
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The dirt cheap ESP8266 WiFi module is almost certain to generate inexpensive, WiFi-enabled home automation devices. The lamp holder and appliance module from ITEAD STUDIO are merely (albeit somewhat crude) forerunners of numerous such devices. If Authinx doesn't adapt quickly, they'll likely go the way of the dodo and the CFL. ;D
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I haven't jumped ship but I have thought about it. My reason was the crappy wireless range of the CM15a and AHP. Sure AHP worked well but when the original X10 went under and left AHP a problem to reload (but you did great with your work) I started to look but didn't want to spend the money to replace all I've invested. So I ended up with Home Control Assistant and the WGL W800usb. HCA can do everything AHP can do and more with the exception of transmitting from the CM15a wireless. It will use the CM15a for powerline transmission.
With this setup I have been able to keep everything and increase the reliability of wireless 10 fold. So I'm happy to keep my X10 and if I ever wanted to add something else like Insteon I can. It will run along side X10 and with HCA I can use Insteon to trigger an X10 or vise versa.
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The dirt cheap ESP8266 WiFi module is almost certain to generate inexpensive, WiFi-enabled home automation devices. The lamp holder and appliance module from ITEAD STUDIO are merely (albeit somewhat crude) forerunners of numerous such devices. If Authinx doesn't adapt quickly, they'll likely go the way of the dodo and the CFL. ;D
I've experimented with a few different Wi-Fi HA products, wemo, MiLight and I don't see individual Wi-Fi devices as the way to go.
I do see the ability to control multi devices with a Wi-Fi enabled hub like the Cm15 mod your working on as a goog thing.
After all you only have 254 IP addresses per router as it uses one.
With TVs, game consoles, PCs, laptops, phones, IP cameras, bathroom scales........ all connecting how fast is the responce time going to be once everything is online? ???
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I have almost completely abandoned X10. Though it was not a quick change but slow one.
Early CM15A and AHP where really buggy. Though now it looks better.
Appliance Modules and Relay Type wall switches clunk so loud you can hear them on the other end of the house.
So I kept X10 signalling but used the Smarthome ApplianceLincs with quiet relays. Along with a 1132CU controller and their Smarthome Manager Essentials.
Some of X10WTI's questionable quality control and sales tactics didn't make my choice to change a difficult one.
Then moved to Insteon as the early modules still supported X10 that has been systematically removed in the latest versions.
Presently using an ISY994i Insteon controller that can still sounding some X10 Chime Modules. It replaced an earlier ISY99i and 2414S PLC before that.
Still have some X10 devices that Insteon does not seem to have a module similar. HR12A can still control sixteen X10 addresses in my Insteon Modules. RR501 still process the HR12A. X10 chime modules still triggered by an X10 Powerflash module and ELK Door Bell sensing board.
Great XTB-IIR still gets the X10 power line signals all over the house and it respects Insteon. Unlike some other X10 repeater couplers.
The 1132CU is still in use from time to time. Along with the tubs of X10 modules. I use to do testes for fellow members here. From time to time. Though it looks like an X10 module house cleaning is getting closer.
I don't anticipate going back to X10 as my main automation system.
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Yes, I have thought of switching from X10 to either Insteon or Z-Wave.
With the XTB-IIR repeater I have very good signal reliability. But even with that I would like feedback from the module that it has changed state when commanded, and I would like to poll modules to check or confirm state. No can do with X10, unless the old 2-way modules are resurrected.
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Yes, I have thought of switching from X10 to either Insteon or Z-Wave.
With the XTB-IIR repeater I have very good signal reliability. But even with that I would like feedback from the module that it has changed state when commanded, and I would like to poll modules to check or confirm state. No can do with X10, unless the old 2-way modules are resurrected.
Authinx has stated they plan to reintroduce some older discontinued Items.
Hopefully the RF repeater wasn't the only module they were looking at. ::) :'
I too would love to have several of the old the two way modules, better yet would be if Authinx created a newer improved version.
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I keep looking at Insteon. But I am not actually sure why.
It isn't like my setup is complete. But I do seem to have run short on imagination. So without a project that needs newer technologies to exploit ... I Find myself waiting. I have extra X10 parts and pieces (maybe a lifetimes supply).
There are some things I'd like to do. But the technologies aren't quite there yet. I'd like facial recognition, I'd like a more conversational interaction with my setup/home. I'd like the home/setup to communicate with me through my phone. Both with pre-recorded PHONE voice prompts (alarms) as well as texts. I NEED BETTER phone home control APPS! But I am not going to get any of that just by switching to Insteon or Zwave.
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I don't think the X10 protocol is an issue, but one definitely has to do more than install the modules for things to work well. Once an XTB-IIR is installed and filters used to eliminate noise/signal suckers (located via XTBM), PLC should work great.
Prior to investing in modifications, I was very close to throwing in the towel. Adding the XTB-IIR and filters fixed the PLC issues. Adding an antenna mod to the CM15A, adding RF amplifiers, and centrally locating it on the booster port of the XTB-IIR fixed much of the rest. I'm still not happy about the range of the motion sensors nor the "weather proofing", but all of the PLC components I've used seem more than acceptable.
So, I suppose the only other thing that I'd say Insteon has over X10 is that every module is a repeater (as I understand). If you have range issues with X10, you have to find a signal booster which is much like unobtainium. I know jvde makes one, but I haven't seen on offered by X10 before.
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I'm with Brian.
Almost everything I have is now Insteon. Primarily because when X10 went completely dead at almost exactly the same time I had a hard drive failure and I needed something to automate my lightswitches.
I started with the Insteon Homelinc software, but quickly went to the ISY994i controller. I love the two way functionality of the switches.
I must say that the majority of members on the Insteon forum are complete arseheads with completely closed minds whose favourite phrase goes along the lines of "not designed to do that; can't be done" - member BLH seems to be OK though :)
I still have a box of X10 parts kicking around somewhere that I might use for playing with if the fabled wifi unit ever appears, but I'm not jumping in on the first production run; I'll let you lot test it first :)
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There are some things I'd like to do. But the technologies aren't quite there yet. I'd like facial recognition, I'd like a more conversational interaction with my setup/home. I'd like the home/setup to communicate with me through my phone. Both with pre-recorded PHONE voice prompts (alarms) as well as texts. I NEED BETTER phone home control APPS! But I am not going to get any of that just by switching to Insteon or Zwave.
Better phone apps may not be that far off. I created a phone program before smartphones were the norm which would do everything your looking at except texts which wouldn't hard to add.
Since Android seems to be easier to code for it may come on it first. ::)
Everyone is playing with face recognition too and is possible on many devices it just hasn't been tied into HA to any great degree, Yet.
As long as X10 releases the protocol for the wifi module It should get more people taking a second look as there seems to be more users running X10 with imaginations.
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I must say that the majority of members on the Insteon forum are complete arseheads with completely closed minds whose favourite phrase goes along the lines of "not designed to do that; can't be done" - member BLH seems to be OK though :)
When I posted, "Those who can, do; those who can't Stu." the moderator removed it and admonished me - I haven't been back there since. ::)
I really liked the features of the early ToggleLinc switches - X10 address, two-way action, reporting local changes, etc. Where I am now, there are no neutrals in the switchboxes so I cannot use them but it would be great for others were Authinx to introduce similarly capable X10 switches. And, they could make each device a (realtime) PLC repeater but I haven't analyzed this from a cost standpoint
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I've migrated somewhat similar to lviper and bkenobi - I use HCA software, so I have an upgrade path to other technolgies if ever required. Currently an alternative to X10 has not been required, because installing XTB-IIR and XTB-232 to generate PLC (my CM15A was an early/flakey product) have restored X10 reliability in my home completely. Adding to that; a bunch of good quality/dimmable LED lights have made my system a bit greener also.
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.... Adding to that; a bunch of good quality/dimmable LED lights have made my system a bit greener also.
What dimmable led lights are you using with X10?
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I've had the best luck with older Phillips (haven't bought one in a couple years) and current model Cree. Most are 60w equivalent. One of the Cree's didn't like full power via the module's triac and would pulse while bright, even though it was the same bulb as others which worked OK. Might be the module itself, but I just reprogrammed it to come on and dim to 85% bright and the flashing hasn't been an issue since. I also use low-temp-tolerant LED bulbs in my driveway lanterns. Those dim very smoothly, but I can't recall the mfr.
Keep in mind I do not have "silly" expectations of dimming however....LED's are not like incandescent. I'm not looking for lights to dim smoothly to 10%. Generally my dimming programs call up reduction to about 30% or so.
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Better phone apps may not be that far off.
I agree. I also believe.... the political-economic winds could shift soon.... bringing about an avalanche of innovative products and new technologies. Including cloud enabled devices and software which are vastly beneficial (and scary to some). I remain whole heartedly optimistic!
Everyone is playing with face recognition too and is possible on many devices it just hasn't been tied into HA to any great degree, Yet.
I know. I have some regrets about not jumping on Kinect [as in Xbox 360]. I've also recently saw an on-line advertisement for a stand alone FR camera/security product. I Keep feeding my (automation) piggy bank.... and I watch and read. And mostly... I look for an inspiration project. It was my Home Theater that launched me into HA... and BVC made me an addict. I have updated and modernized... but haven't yet found that new game-changing product-attraction I can't live without.
When I joined this forum... most people had no idea what Home Automation was (including myself). Now I say I have a "smart home"... and many people know what that means. I am very happy with what I can do with X10. Most of the uses for HA are really very simple.
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............ I started with the Insteon Homelinc software, but quickly went to the ISY994i controller.
Is this the hub/interface/controller you recommend?!?!?!?
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I know. I have some regrets about not jumping on Kinect [as in Xbox 360].
These can still be found in gameing shops used, or on ebay for about $20.
The Speech recognition with these is excellent as I've been playing with them for a while now in PCC.
There are a few different softwares that will intergate these into a HA setup.
These will allow person detection, face detection as well as facial recognition though a fast PC is required for the facial stuff.
Simple viewing and microphone use isn't a resource hog like facial recognition.
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What dimmable led lights are you using with X10?
I've had great success with "Energetic Lighting" BR30 dimmable bulbs. Smoothly from 100% to a candle. I also use BR40 bulbs from Hyperion. They dim down to about 30% of full bright. For "regular" bulbs I use Energetic Lighting as they dim very well.
They are almost all controlled with WS12A dimmer switches.
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............ I started with the Insteon Homelinc software, but quickly went to the ISY994i controller.
Is this the hub/interface/controller you recommend?!?!?!?
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Dave,
You have a few of choices for Insteon controllers.
1) homelinc software with a powerline interface - appears to be obsolete and longer supported
2) the "hub" - does not seem to offer a full feature set. I picked one up in Walmart on clearance for $50, but only because it had 2 plug-in dimmers in the box. I didn't even plug it in and play with it.
3) the ISY series - standalone and programmed wirelessly using a browser based interface.
There are a couple of others that are available (Vera springs to mind), but I went with the ISY because I picked that up on sale too. BrianH is probably more familiar than I am because I just set it up and forgot all about it. :)
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Dave,
You have a few of choices for Insteon controllers.
1) homelinc software with a powerline interface - appears to be obsolete and longer supported
2) the "hub" - does not seem to offer a full feature set. I picked one up in Walmart on clearance for $50, but only because it had 2 plug-in dimmers in the box. I didn't even plug it in and play with it.
3) the ISY series - standalone and programmed wirelessly using a browser based interface.
There are a couple of others that are available (Vera springs to mind), but I went with the ISY because I picked that up on sale too. BrianH is probably more familiar than I am because I just set it up and forgot all about it. :)
Thanks! I think this is what is holding me back. What would be my "gain". Everything I have runs flawlessly. I can't come up with a new idea/project that requires new stuff. Nothing groundbreaking is being offered by anyone. So I wait.
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These can still be found in gameing shops used, or on ebay for about $20.
The Speech recognition with these is excellent as I've been playing with them for a while now in PCC.
There are a few different softwares that will intergate these into a HA setup.
These will allow person detection, face detection as well as facial recognition though a fast PC is required for the facial stuff.
Simple viewing and microphone use isn't a resource hog like facial recognition.
Oops! I almost missed this post... sorry. Maybe I should revisit the Kinect [as in Xbox 360].
This is the unit/device (http://www.amazon.com/Netatmo-Welcome-Security-Camera-Recognition/dp/B00X5X1XPU/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1454588864&sr=1-3&keywords=facial+recognition) that had recently caught my attention. It's stand alone, and interfaces with a smartphone.
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Look for the xbox 360 Kinects not the Microsoft Kinects for PCs and not the Kinects II if you do revisit the Idea.
You'll pay much more for the Microsoft Kinects for PCs and the Kinects II.
I also haven't seen much in HA software for the Kinects II as it uses different drivers
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.... not the Microsoft Kinects for PCs .....
Glad you mentioned that... the PC ones are what I thought I needed.
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Nope, there are drivers for the Xbox360 Kinects and they work just as well I'm told.
I use the Xbox 360 Kinects never tried the PC ones.
>!
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I didn't start using X10 until mid-1990 when I started with a CM15A and a couple of light modules. Over the next 25 years the number of my devices increased to over 40 units. However, it was always a struggle to keep things working reliably. Motion sensors had very limited range. Powerline interference was always a problem even with filters, boosters and repeaters. Vendor (X10) support (sales and technical) became just terrible.
There was about a 5-6 year period at the end where I used iHouse. To me the big advantage with iHouse was you could contact the developer directly for assistance. But unfortunately, iHouse went by the wayside.
Finally, with the uncertainty of X10s future, I decide to change.
So in mid-2015 I switched to Insteon with no regrets. Now with 25 devices (still adding), my HA is rock solid. Devices are easily added. FOSCAM cameras are easily configured. No powerline filters/boosters/repeaters. Yes, there are things I can't do with the HUB, such as time offsets. Although an upgrade to an ISY controller would allow offsets. But for now I'm pleased with the change.
Side note. X10 Forum member support was always exceptional. They were a different breed. Kind of a "mom and pop" feeling. Everyone helping each other. That was fun. Guess that's why I periodically come back to the Forum just to see what's happening.
Anyway, my 2 cents worth.
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I've officially given up. At one point, I had X10 everywhere in the house, and with AHP and my modded CM15A w/attic antenna, I truly had a "smart" house. Below are just a few examples of what I had set up:
- custom security system software w/door & window switches (see "Door Monitor" thread from several years ago)
- motion detector near garage entry door to turn garage light on/off automatically via macro
- door switch on the pantry door to turn light on/off automatically
- motion detector near back door to flash a light in my office when the dog needed to go out
- motion detector in the laundry room to turn lights on/off automatically via macro
- various timers/macros for light control
- door switch on overhead garage door turned a light on in my office if the door was left open
- macros to turn on/off various lights with the push of a single button
I guess it was fun having a smart house -- more than that, however, it was an interesting hobby. For a while. Wireless range problems (even with my modded CM15A w/attic antenna) and power line noise were constant thorns in my side. Throw in the flaky nature of AHP macros -- which would have me up until the wee hours trying to debug -- and my "smart" house wasn't always so smart. I spend a lot of money and a lot of hours trying to make it all work, but when I told my wife that she couldn't plug in her cellphone charger in the bedroom until I installed another filter, that was the last straw. I had to choose between X10 and my wife. (Please, no comments from the peanut gallery...)
I replaced the "critical" functions with standalone timers and motion detector LED lights. I taught the dog to ring a bell by the door when he needs to go out. I bought an "off the shelf" security system that will work without having to keep my computer on and AHP running. Everything else I can live without -- and I'm getting a lot more sleep.
I'm giving away all of my X10 stuff -- see my earlier post titled "Box full of X10 stuff". Once I have everything uninstalled (in the next few days), I'm planning to review all of the messages I received, and offer it to whoever has the highest number of "helpful" posts in the forum.
Best of luck to all of you in your quest for the ultimate smart house!
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I hear you! When I was using AHP, I had the EXACT same issue. After moving to a different HA system, I've had very few issues. I've often thought about just going with non-smart motion lights, but then what would I do with all my extra time. :'
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I never did have a very big AHP setup very few macros and even fewer timers.
Most of the tasks were performed by thirdparty software as soon as the first SDK was released.
I soon dumped my x10 hawkeyes and simular motion sensors and switched to the security type and haven't looked back.
I never realy had any issues with noise or signal sucker until we got the house rewired (Summer 2015).
You'd have thought it would have been better.
Luckly I had just gotten a XTBM signal meter for testing new X10 modules.
This quickly rooted out the issues which in some cases would have taken months to figure out instead of a few mins.
I started to move back to using AHP after X10WTI went belly up, this was mainly to help end users who lost their setup for one reason or another.
Now I'm moving back away from it as Windows 10 64 bit doesn't play well with it.
Thirdparty software works best for me (always has).
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I've officially given up. At one point, I had X10 everywhere in the house, and with AHP and my modded CM15A w/attic antenna, I truly had a "smart" house.
I guess it was fun having a smart house -- more than that, however, it was an interesting hobby. For a while. Wireless range problems (even with my modded CM15A w/attic antenna) and power line noise were constant thorns in my side.,,...........,
I'm giving away all of my X10 stuff -- see my earlier post titled "Box full of X10 stuff". Once I have everything uninstalled (in the next few days), I'm planning to review all of the messages I received, and offer it to whoever has the highest number of "helpful" posts in the forum.
Best of luck to all of you in your quest for the ultimate smart house!
Thankk you jtykal. . I received the big box of x10 stuff today. Very nice. This may be along with what I already had more than enough to last the rest of my life. Of course I'm not that young LOL. Thanks again!!!!!
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I started with a HomeBase controller, which worked well for many years. When it died, I replaced it with an Ocelot, which has done almost everything I want done. I looked at Insteon and the ISY controller, but my son went that way and the programming appears a lot more difficult than the Ocelot. Not being a programmer, I can do just about everything I want with the Ocelot without the pain of learning a new language. The addition of an XTB-IIR was the final link that improved the reliability of the system immensely. I don't plan on changing any time soon.