X10 Community Forum

🔌General Home Automation => Automating Your House => Topic started by: DavidinCT on August 24, 2017, 01:23:39 PM

Title: Lamps....all on with power ?
Post by: DavidinCT on August 24, 2017, 01:23:39 PM
Hey all,

Been using X-10 stuff for a while but, just wondering if there is a quick, cheap method to do this for 1 room in my home. I have a ton of basic Lamp modules.

What I want in one room. there is a switched outlet I want to setup 3 lamps (smaller bulb) in this room and when I walk in, I want to flip the wall switch to turn them all on.

What Module could I use that would detect power and send a all on command to one room (like room Z for example) so I can use up to 9/10 devices ?

I know this can be done with X-10 but, how with out a complex software setup ?
Title: Re: Lamps....all on with power ?
Post by: Brian H on August 24, 2017, 04:07:21 PM
You could use a X10 PF284 or X10Pro PSC01 Powerflash module. With a small wall wart power supply in the switched outlet.
Set to detect a low voltage input and send an On when the outlet is On and an Off when the outlet is off.
The Lamp Module would have to set the the X10 address set on the Powerflash.
A 120 VAC relay could also be used. Then the Powerflash would be set to Dry Contact Input.
Title: Re: Lamps....all on with power ?
Post by: bkenobi on August 24, 2017, 05:09:37 PM
You could also use a wall switch that sent a command and have all of the lights set to the same address.  The simplest approach would be the stick-a-switch but there are other options too.
Title: Re: Lamps....all on with power ?
Post by: Tuicemen on August 24, 2017, 05:48:22 PM
Depending on the wiring in the switch's box and if it controlled more then the outlet you might be able to use a xpt1
https://www.x10.com/x10-pro/xpt1-w-ns-wall-transmitter-w-1-button-keypad-1-on-off-white-new-style-xpt1-version-a.html

You'd wire the outlet so it always had power then wire in the Xpt1 and set the house & unit code you wished it to transmit
each lamp module would be set to that house & unit code.
Of course you couldn't dim with that switch however I believe there is a dimmable version but it may be a 2 switch controller.
Title: Re: Lamps....all on with power ?
Post by: toasterking on August 25, 2017, 06:15:47 PM
If you are set on having a different unit code for each device, you could also use the XPT transmitter (using Tuicemen's advice above) with one of these keypads that can send the ALL LIGHTS ON and ALL UNITS OFF to all modules on the same house code.  If you want it to control the modules in only one room, you would have to have only those modules set to the same house code and the modules elsewhere in the building on a different house code.
https://www.x10.com/xp1a-w-ns.html (https://www.x10.com/xp1a-w-ns.html)
https://www.x10.com/x10-pro/in-wall-keypads/xp4d-w-ns-new-style-4-button-keypad-3-on-off-3-sequenced-codes-1-dim-control-white-xp4d-version-a-522.html (https://www.x10.com/x10-pro/in-wall-keypads/xp4d-w-ns-new-style-4-button-keypad-3-on-off-3-sequenced-codes-1-dim-control-white-xp4d-version-a-522.html)

Lots of options here.
Title: Re: Lamps....all on with power ?
Post by: DavidinCT on November 29, 2017, 09:58:42 AM
You could use a X10 PF284 or X10Pro PSC01 Powerflash module. With a small wall wart power supply in the switched outlet.
Set to detect a low voltage input and send an On when the outlet is On and an Off when the outlet is off.
The Lamp Module would have to set the the X10 address set on the Powerflash.
A 120 VAC relay could also be used. Then the Powerflash would be set to Dry Contact Input.

Sorry everyone, forgot I posted here. I posted to another site but, besides them telling me I need a $1000+ automated system it was worthless to this need.

This is what I am exactly looking for. To plug in a small wall wart on the outlet that is switched and when the power is turned on, it sends a "all on" to a few lamps.  And an option that is cheap too. These devices you speak of are around $45 each.

Is there a cheaper option that can do what I need ?  I do not want to change out the light switch, I know that is an option but, I would rather avoid it.

Title: Re: Lamps....all on with power ?
Post by: Tuicemen on November 29, 2017, 10:20:50 AM
Does the current wall switch control power to all the outlets where the lamp modules would be or just some or none?
What does it turn on off now?

Your cheapest solution would be a stick a switch and have all Lights on the same code.
https://www.x10.com/x10-home-automation/controllers/ss15a.html
You could stick it beside the existing switch.
 >!
Title: Re: Lamps....all on with power ?
Post by: Brian H on November 29, 2017, 10:53:06 AM
Are the present plugged in modules like appliance or lamp modules; light switches automated?
Like X10, Insteon, Z-Wave, UPB?
If you have standard mechanical switches your options are really limited.
Title: Re: Lamps....all on with power ?
Post by: Tuicemen on November 29, 2017, 11:18:04 AM
After re-reading your last post I see what your looking for is a module that sends a x10 command when power is applied.

Quote
To plug in a small wall wart on the outlet that is switched and when the power is turned on, it sends a "all on" to a few lamps.
There isn't a current module that is designed to do that.
Title: Re: Lamps....all on with power ?
Post by: DavidinCT on November 29, 2017, 12:40:11 PM
After re-reading your last post I see what your looking for is a module that sends a x10 command when power is applied.

Quote
To plug in a small wall wart on the outlet that is switched and when the power is turned on, it sends a "all on" to a few lamps.
There isn't a current module that is designed to do that.

Interesting. I do remember, years ago. I had my home loaded with X10 (my last home) even with Homeseer for true automation.  There was a few lamps that every time power was lost and came back on, that a few lamps always came back on, even if they were off before the power was lost.

I did research it about 10 years ago and found out what it was because I fixed it, but, I cant remember exactly what it was as it was so long ago.  I don't care if it was designed like that, as long as it works like that :)

Yes, I am looking for something that will do this. Just use the factory switch, with a wall wart type module that when power is applied it sends out a ON command to a few lamp modules.

If you CANT do this with X10, anyone know a something that would work here? Like I said, funny I thought I could do this with X-10.

Would the X10Pro PSC01 Powerflash module do what I want like Brian H said ?
Title: Re: Lamps....all on with power ?
Post by: Tuicemen on November 29, 2017, 12:43:49 PM
Yes. The powerflash would need to be in an outlet other then the one controlled by the switch.  One that is always on.
Title: Re: Lamps....all on with power ?
Post by: DavidinCT on November 29, 2017, 12:57:39 PM
Yes. The powerflash would need to be in an outlet other then the one controlled by the switch.  One that is always on.

Ah, then that wont do what I need.

Oh, well... Thanks for your time. :(
Title: Re: Lamps....all on with power ?
Post by: HA Dave on November 29, 2017, 02:35:57 PM
It seems to me.... [forum member] Puck had created some sort of power outage macro years ago. Maybe around 2007?
Title: Re: Lamps....all on with power ?
Post by: Brian H on November 29, 2017, 05:51:45 PM
The Powerflash would need power all the time and the wall wart low voltage would trigger it On and Off.
I do remember some one setting it to dry contacts and shorting the input pins. When the AC power was turned on. It sent an X10 On at power up.
Though when the AC went off it had no power to then send an Off.

I don't remember seeing any X10 modules going an On at power up.
I do know some of the Smarthome X10 and Insteon with an added x10 address. Would go to the state it was in at power loss at power coming back On. Except the Insteon SocketLinc Dimmer. It always went to 100% on at a power application. Even if Off.
Title: Re: Lamps....all on with power ?
Post by: DavidinCT on November 30, 2017, 02:09:21 PM
The Powerflash would need power all the time and the wall wart low voltage would trigger it On and Off.
I do remember some one setting it to dry contacts and shorting the input pins. When the AC power was turned on. It sent an X10 On at power up.
Though when the AC went off it had no power to then send an Off.

I don't remember seeing any X10 modules going an On at power up.
I do know some of the Smarthome X10 and Insteon with an added x10 address. Would go to the state it was in at power loss at power coming back On. Except the Insteon SocketLinc Dimmer. It always went to 100% on at a power application. Even if Off.

Ok, MAYBE. The Outlet that is switched, the top is the switched the other one is constant.

I just want a few lamps to turn on when I flip on a switch. It's so annoying that the moron who built the home put the outlet in a inconvenient spot....sigh.

I figured there would be an easy way with out running a extension cord around the entire room.
Title: Re: Lamps....all on with power ?
Post by: dhouston on November 30, 2017, 04:10:34 PM
It's been a loooong time since I played with this and my memory these days isn't as good as I remember it being but I think you can accomplish this with one of the original X10-capable Smarthome LampLink 2000STW lamp modules. You can find the instruction manual at...
cache-m2.smarthome.com/manuals/2000STW_web.pdf (http://cache-m2.smarthome.com/manuals/2000STW_web.pdf)
Page 9, under Understanding the Local Control and Load Detect Feature says...
Quote
Move the switch on the lamp wall  to the “ON” position. The lamp will turn on and LampLinc will transmit its primary house/unit code plus “ON”.
and...
Quote
Move the switch on the lamp wall to the “OFF” position.  The lamp will turn off and LampLinc will transmit its primary house/unit code plus “OFF”.

If you have all of the lamps on X10 lamp modules with same address as the 2000STW in the switched outlet, turning the switch ON should send a PLC signal to turn all of the lamps ON and turning it OFF should send a PLC signal to turn all of the lamps OFF.

There's one complication if you turn things off remotely, the wall switch is still ON. To again turn the lamps ON...
Quote
Move the switch on the lamp wall  to the “OFF” position and then back to the “ON” position.  The lamp will turn on and LampLinc will transmit its primary house/unit code plus “ON”.

I think you'll need one of the lamps (or maybe a small nightlight) plugged into the 2000STW.

This may not work as it was intended to sense when a lamp plugged into the 2000STW was switched rather than when the power to the 2000STW itself was switched.
Title: Re: Lamps....all on with power ?
Post by: dhouston on December 01, 2017, 09:10:16 AM
My misspelling of LampLinc led me to this...
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/popshields/lamplink-control-any-outlet-with-your-existing-wal (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/popshields/lamplink-control-any-outlet-with-your-existing-wal)
It doesn't appear that it ever got off the ground.
Title: Re: Lamps....all on with power ?
Post by: JeffVolp on December 01, 2017, 09:52:41 AM
Gee, if this is something that more people need, a simple mod to the XTBR firmware could do it.  It transmits P_Status_ON whenever it powers up after being off for a few seconds.  But the firmware could easily be changed to transmit another command, like P1_ON.  Or a macro could also be used to change the existing power-up transmission into anything else.

Jeff
Title: Re: Lamps....all on with power ?
Post by: Noam on December 01, 2017, 09:58:27 AM
After re-reading your last post I see what your looking for is a module that sends a x10 command when power is applied.

Quote
To plug in a small wall wart on the outlet that is switched and when the power is turned on, it sends a "all on" to a few lamps.
There isn't a current module that is designed to do that.

I have a power outage / restoration macro that does this with a PowerFlash plugged into a *regular* outlet - but it only works one-way (it triggers when power comes on, but can't do anything when power goes off). I put a short jumper across the two terminals, and set it to send a momentary on. When power is applied, it does (but it won't work for the "off" function when leaving the room).
Title: Re: Lamps....all on with power ?
Post by: Noam on December 01, 2017, 10:03:17 AM
Gee, if this is something that more people need, a simple mod to the XTBR firmware could do it.  It transmits P_Status_ON whenever it powers up after being off for a few seconds.  But the firmware could easily be changed to transmit another command, like P1_ON.  Or a macro could also be used to change the existing power-up transmission into anything else.

Jeff
Jeff -
I think it would be helpful for the XTBR firmware to have a "power restored" command ability. Even better would be the ability to customize it (change the code, add a delay - since the CM15A needs a few seconds to boot up after power comes back on). This is something I struggled with for years, and finally have a "close enough" solution using a PowerFlash module. The only downside is that very short outages (2-3 seconds, perhaps) don't trigger it, as the internal capacitors don't discharge fast enough. I tried to build a circuit that triggered after a very brief outage (half a second to one second), *and* had a few second delay after power-up before triggering the Powerflash, but I could never get it to work. Of course, that was before I started delving into Arduino. I could probably do what I wanted now with a few lines of Arduino code - but I never bothered to revisit it.
Title: Re: Lamps....all on with power ?
Post by: bkenobi on December 01, 2017, 10:43:10 AM
The other alternative to remembering states would be to use a setup where the controller knew the power state and was still live with the power off.  IOW, install a UPS and put the X10 controller behind it.  The UPS knows the state of power and sends it to a PC so it knows that it should shut off.  If you used that signal to trigger whatever commands you needed, you could have a robust system.  I have this setup and it works well (I don't actually restore lights, I just use a UPS to keep my controller from resetting for short outages).
Title: Re: Lamps....all on with power ?
Post by: DavidinCT on December 01, 2017, 01:01:06 PM
It's been a loooong time since I played with this and my memory these days isn't as good as I remember it being but I think you can accomplish this with one of the original X10-capable Smarthome LampLink 2000STW lamp modules. You can find the instruction manual at...

Interesting... a 2000STW is cheap enough (under $15 on ebay) to give it a "test" to see if I can get it to work.

Thanks ! (BTW, I remember you from about 5-7 years ago when I was really heavy into X10 with touch panels around my house etc)


My misspelling of LampLinc led me to this...
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/popshields/lamplink-control-any-outlet-with-your-existing-wal (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/popshields/lamplink-control-any-outlet-with-your-existing-wal)
It doesn't appear that it ever got off the ground.

Dam, that would fit the bill exactly...  It's EXACTLY what I am looking to do.
Title: Re: Lamps....all on with power ?
Post by: dhouston on December 01, 2017, 01:25:54 PM
Dam, that would fit the bill exactly...  It's EXACTLY what I am looking to do.

They also have a Facebook page but it doesn't show much activity.
https://www.facebook.com/lamplink/ (https://www.facebook.com/lamplink/)
Title: Re: Lamps....all on with power ?
Post by: JeffVolp on December 01, 2017, 02:43:40 PM
I think it would be helpful for the XTBR firmware to have a "power restored" command ability.

That is actually what the P_Status_ON transmission was intended to indicate.

Jeff
Title: Re: Lamps....all on with power ?
Post by: dhouston on December 01, 2017, 03:33:44 PM
Interesting... a 2000STW is cheap enough (under $15 on ebay) to give it a "test" to see if I can get it to work.
Don't waste the $15. I sent Igor down to the catacombs and he returned with one of my 2000STW lamp modules. I plugged it into a powerstrip with switched outlets alongside my ESM1 X10 meter. There's no PLC signal except for when the lamp plugged into the module is turned ON. Obviously, my memory was mistaken.

For X10 your best bet is Jeff's XTBR with modified firmware but I wonder if it can provide an OFF when powered down.

However, if you want to go with Voice Control & WiFi, the dirt-cheap Sonoff (& Slampher) devices available from Itead now support Alexa, Google Home, and Google Nest.
https://www.itead.cc/smart-home.html  (https://www.itead.cc/smart-home.html)
PS: If Jeff could squeeze an ESP8266 into his XTBR, it would be even better. -:)
Title: Re: Lamps....all on with power ?
Post by: JeffVolp on December 01, 2017, 05:42:18 PM
For X10 your best bet is Jeff's XTBR with modified firmware but I wonder if it can provide an OFF when powered down.

No, it just transmits when powered up.  It needs AC to keep the electrolytic charged during transmission and the 60Hz zero crossings for timing. 

Quote
PS: If Jeff could squeeze an ESP8266 into his XTBR, it would be even better. -:)

Sorry, that isn't going to happen.  It uses the PIC16F1823.  With over 4000 products shipped, I'm not doing any new development.

Jeff
Title: Re: Lamps....all on with power ?
Post by: dhouston on December 02, 2017, 08:58:08 AM
Sorry, that isn't going to happen.  It uses the PIC16F1823.  With over 4000 products shipped, I'm not doing any new development.
All I'm suggesting is adding something like the ESP-01S...
http://www.electrodragon.com/product/esp-01-esp8266-wifi-module/ (http://www.electrodragon.com/product/esp-01-esp8266-wifi-module/)
to any of your devices that have 2 surplus pins for TX/RX serial connection. This would add WiFi capability without much added cost. There are numerous free programming languages available. Scroll to the bottom of...
http://esp8266.net/ (http://esp8266.net/)
for a list.

You could likely do in a couple of weeks what Authinx hasn't managed in a couple of years.
Title: Re: Lamps....all on with power ?
Post by: JeffVolp on December 02, 2017, 10:10:53 PM
All I'm suggesting is adding something like the ESP-01S...
http://www.electrodragon.com/product/esp-01-esp8266-wifi-module/ (http://www.electrodragon.com/product/esp-01-esp8266-wifi-module/)
to any of your devices that have 2 surplus pins for TX/RX serial connection. This would add WiFi capability without much added cost.

That is kind of interesting in that the XTBR is built on the XTB-232 or XTB-523 PCBs with the serial I/O components unpopulated.  Those use the TX and RX pins on the PIC.  Looking at the PCB, there is room to fit that .6" by 1" module into the area now used by the serial I/O components.  Hmm...

Unfortunately I'm pretty much saturated from now through April, but it is something worth considering when things lighten up next summer.

Jeff
Title: Re: Lamps....all on with power ?
Post by: dhouston on December 03, 2017, 12:37:22 PM
That is kind of interesting in that the XTBR is built on the XTB-232 or XTB-523 PCBs with the serial I/O components unpopulated.  Those use the TX and RX pins on the PIC.  Looking at the PCB, there is room to fit that .6" by 1" module into the area now used by the serial I/O components.  Hmm...

If it uses the same CM11A protocol as your XTB-232 it would be fairly simple to create (or adapt) full-featured software for Arduino & RaspberryPi to interface with it via WiFi.
Title: Re: Lamps....all on with power ?
Post by: JeffVolp on December 03, 2017, 10:13:45 PM
If it uses the same CM11A protocol as your XTB-232 it would be fairly simple to create (or adapt) full-featured software for Arduino & RaspberryPi to interface with it via WiFi.

If that module could emulate the CM11A serial link, it would be relatively simple to replace the XTB-232 serial interface with that module on a revised PCB.  A kludged up development PCB is a near-term possibility.

Jeff
Title: Re: Lamps....all on with power ?
Post by: dhouston on December 04, 2017, 08:22:32 AM
If that module could emulate the CM11A serial link, it would be relatively simple to replace the XTB-232 serial interface with that module on a revised PCB.  A kludged up development PCB is a near-term possibility.

While the ESP8266 has a powerful microcontroller, it can function as a simple WiFi to serial adapter which is all that's needed to turn your module into a WiFi to X10 device. Tuicemen has reflashed one of the Sonoff ESP8266 based relays so he has more 'hands-on' than I.

This is a really nifty little development board. You can use the TX & RX pins to talk to your TX & RX pins.
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/WEMOS-D1-mini-Lite-V1-0-0-WIFI-Internet-of-Things-development-board-based-ESP8285-1MB/1331105_32795857574.html (https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/WEMOS-D1-mini-Lite-V1-0-0-WIFI-Internet-of-Things-development-board-based-ESP8285-1MB/1331105_32795857574.html)
The ESP8285 chip basically incorporates the ESP8266 plus internal 1MB flash memory.