X10 Community Forum
🔌General Home Automation => Automating Your House => Troubleshooting Automation Problems => Topic started by: demcgovern on November 27, 2017, 11:53:02 AM
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I would like to have my Christmas Led lights go completely off with my X10 plugin modules. Currently they remain dim when "off" and now the newest string has a slow flash. I have heard of some hacks with a diode and resistors to remove the local load sense. Where can I find details on how to do this? Thanks Don
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Dimmer or On/Off type X10 modules?
Wall switch type or plug in type?
The older Lamp and Appliance modules had Local Control Sensing and could cause what you are seeing.
There are modification for the older ones.
The latest Soft Start Lamp and CFL friendly Appliance modules are different circuits.
The CFL friendly Appliance has almost no current on the output and maybe better with LED lights.
I have not seen any mods, for them but have found a resistor in the Soft Start Lamp Modules that reduces it.
Try this. Put a power cube in the output and connect both the lights and a small incandescent 4 or 7 watt night light on it.
See if that makes a difference.
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Try this. Put a power cube in the output and connect both the lights and a small incandescent 4 or 7 watt night light on it.
I have done that and it works like a charm. Incandescent lights act as a dead short across the line when off, clamping the voltage to zero. When power is applied, they heat up and the resistance increases.
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They are 15-25 year old X10 plug-in lamp modules. I have no incandescent nights lights at present - all LEDs! I have tried an incandescent string along side of the LED string and the LED lights will go out. However a night light would be intrusive in most of my applications. Still hoping for details to modify the modules. Thanks Don
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Look on this web site.
http://www.laureanno.com/index.html
In Tom's X10 Modifications Section.
For the Appliance Modules.
Depending on the exact age. The diode will stop the sensing current from having the LEDs glow dimly.
One of the now off line sites also showed a jumper. I don't think Tom's has it and it was newer than some but before the CFL friendly ones.
If there is also a jumper it would disable local control.
I cut both in my older ones but the diode alone should stop the glow.
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The lamp module modification does not remove the sense current that is causing the problem (it only disables local control). The appliance module modification works better, but there still is a bit of a leakage current.
If a night light isn't convenient, another option would be to install a C7 or C9 socket on a 2-wire extension cord. If you Google "C7 socket" you will find a bunch of retailers that sell them. Just check what type of wire your extension cord uses and get the appropriate socket. You can either keep the incandescent bulb hidden or use it in your display. If hidden, you could paint the bulb black.
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The C7 trick sounds good, will keep it in mind. I was not eager to modify the modules especially with the uncertain results. Actually the glow does not bother me as the current was there with the incandescent, just not visible. However it bothered my wife who has a hang-up with technology - except for her cell phone, tablet, microwave...
Do the latest X10 modules have this problem with LEDs? I sent an email on this to Smarthome but still am waiting for a response.
Thanks Don
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I have some of the CFL Friendly Appliance Modules.
There is still a very small On Off sensor voltage on the output. It can not be removed with out issues.
If the module does not know if it is On or Off. It will try two or three times to change state. Sounding like a small machine gun.
The current on the output did not cause some of my LED bulbs to pulse when off like the early ones did. Though real low current LED bulbs like a single strand of Christmas lights still glowed.
The Soft Start Lamp Modules still have sensing current on them and the mods for the older ones will not work. Completely different circuits. Though I believe I found a resistor you can remove to stop it.
I don't think you are going to get an answer from Smarthome as X10 is not their product.
I don't see lots of help even with their own Insteon products. The new owners moved support to an overseas center and shipping facilities at a new address in California. They got purchased by Richmond Capital Partners maybe six months ago.
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Fixed the problem by attaching a LED night light that has a light sensor. Apparently the sensor takes enough current to shutdown the Christmas LEDs. Now to paint the LED night light black. Thanks all for the help.
Don
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Fixed the problem by attaching a LED night light that has a light sensor. Apparently the sensor takes enough current to shutdown the Christmas LEDs. Now to paint the LED night light black. Thanks all for the help.
Interesting. I wonder if an old incandescent nightlight with light sensor would work with the bulb removed (or burnt out bulb installed for safety)?
(http://limagehomeproducts.com/media/catalog/product/3/0/30310477-night-light-w-sensor-02.jpg)
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I would guess no since I've found motion sensors without a load don't work in other cases. It's worth a try though (if you already have one).
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What you need is the small sensing current on the output loaded down. So the small current that keeps the LEDs glowing is not there.
Will the night light you are showing work. Depends on how much it loads down the sensing current. Without the bulb it may not draw enough to work. You can't hurt anything by trying.
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What you need is the small sensing current on the output loaded down. So the small current that keeps the LEDs glowing is not there.
Will the night light you are showing work. Depends on how much it loads down the sensing current. Without the bulb it may not draw enough to work. You can't hurt anything by trying.
I agree. I am just thinking that since the LED in his night light won't be providing enough load to do this, it must be coming from the Photocell circuitry.
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You can also open the modules and snip a couple things to disable the local control circuit. Personally I hate adding nightlights even though it works.
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Tuicemen has reported the appliance modules have been updated with no Local Control circuits and a quieter relay.
The CFL friendly models from X10WTI also have no Local Control in them. Just the very small On/Off detection circuit for the ratchet relay switch. No diode or resistor to be cut.
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Interesting. I wonder if an old incandescent nightlight with light sensor would work with the bulb removed (or burnt out bulb installed for safety)?
(http://limagehomeproducts.com/media/catalog/product/3/0/30310477-night-light-w-sensor-02.jpg)
Don't think so. The bulb provides the shunt for the sensing current. You also need black tape over the cadmium sulfide cell to maintain current through the bulb.
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I have some round ones with an LED light source.
I used Black plastic model paint and covered the sensors window. ;D
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Don't think so. The bulb provides the shunt for the sensing current. You also need black tape over the cadmium sulfide cell to maintain current through the bulb.
I suggested it because demcgovern said an "LED night light that has a light sensor" fixed the problem for him. Since the LED likely isn't what is helping, I figured it must be in the light sensor itself.
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I setup my Christmas lights early this year (long story).
Through the years we've gone more and more to low energy LED lighting solutions for Christmas lights. This year... we're using 6 projectors for lights ON the house... with LED displays in front of the home. A LOT of LED's.
This is the 1st year... I've had enough (guessing) LED noise on my line that one X10 outdoor module couldn't hear the OFF command. I only had one filter left.... which I plugged into an extension cord... then plugged another extension cord into the filter. Put the filter in a ziplock bag with the cords sticking out. Then cut a notch in the rim of a plastic jar and screwed the lid tight around the protruding cords. Then I added the filter-jar in the line out by the "blue tree". That apparently filtered enough noise. Everything works fine now.
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I setup my Christmas lights early this year (long story).
Looks nice.
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I passed by a house tonight.... that was totally covered in lights... and they all blinked and danced to the music of a local radio station that is only playing Christmas music right now.
It made me feel non-productive and lazy.
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Couldn't you just ask Alexa to blink the lights for you? Seems like she can do anything so this should be easy.
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For years I have used LM15A to control x-mass lights. Trick is to add one non LED string..no glow problems and string just mixes with others.
Wish you all happy and successful lighting displays.
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I passed by a house tonight.... that was totally covered in lights... and they all blinked and danced to the music of a local radio station that is only playing Christmas music right now.
It made me feel non-productive and lazy.
Over 50 years ago I did that with a few strings of lights using a "color organ" I built from a mail order kit. They're still available from $5 at Radio Shack (yes, they're still in biz online!) to $70 on Amazon (they're still in biz too).
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I passed by a house tonight.... that was totally covered in lights... and they all blinked and danced to the music of a local radio station that is only playing Christmas music right now.
It made me feel non-productive and lazy.
Couldn't you just ask Alexa to blink the lights for you? Seems like she can do anything so this should be easy.
There is some new WiFi hardware that CAN be controlled by Alexa..... in a very limited way. Heck even my limited [Christmas] setup has 8 separate switches/modules (Six are Alexa [Homeseer] controlled X10 and two are Alexa controlled wifi).
Over 50 years ago I did that with a few strings of lights using a "color organ" I built from a mail order kit. They're still available from $5 at Radio Shack (yes, they're still in biz online!) to $70 on Amazon (they're still in biz too).
Those fancy displays are a combination of engineering and art, hardware and software, hard work and hard cash. Way over my head in both skills and ambition. But I do enjoy and appreciate those displays and people that can and do go that far.
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Couldn't you just ask Alexa to blink the lights for you? Seems like she can do anything so this should be easy.
LoL I tried that, but with X10's slow "one second" per command timing, I could only play a very very slow waltz. rofl
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Those fancy displays are a combination of engineering and art, hardware and software, hard work and hard cash. Way over my head in both skills and ambition. But I do enjoy and appreciate those displays and people that can and do go that far.
You need a DMX lighting control. If you play an instrument you could write the routine for "Dance of the Sugar Plum Fairy". :)%
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LoL I tried that, but with X10's slow "one second" per command timing, I could only play a very very slow waltz. rofl
Bah, stop exagerating. It's only 0.6 seconds, so you can play a moderate waltz.
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Bah, stop exagerating. It's only 0.6 seconds, so you can play a moderate waltz.
rofl
I think you are off by 150,000 nanoseconds.
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We switched to LEDs last year, rather than use a night light, I bought a bunch of "scent candle" plug-in devices at our local Dollar Tree ($1 each) and they have a ceramic resistor across the terminals to create a little heat to make the scent liquid in the bottles evaporate, etc.
We don't put any of the scent bottles in the units, but I add one of these small resistive loads on the load side of the X-10 switches and they will then turn fully off when cycled.
HTH,
Chas
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We switched to LEDs last year, rather than use a night light, I bought a bunch of "scent candle" plug-in devices at our local Dollar Tree ($1 each) and they have a ceramic resistor across the terminals to create a little heat to make the scent liquid in the bottles evaporate, etc.
We don't put any of the scent bottles in the units, but I add one of these small resistive loads on the load side of the X-10 switches and they will then turn fully off when cycled.
HTH,
Chas
I wonder how many of these I could use to replace light bulbs under my shop sink to keep things from freezing. :'
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.....I bought a bunch of "scent candle" plug-in devices at our local Dollar Tree ($1 each) and they have a ceramic resistor across the terminals to create a little heat to make the scent liquid in the bottles evaporate, etc.
We don't put any of the scent bottles in the units, but I add one of these small resistive loads on the load side of the X-10 switches and they will then turn fully off when cycled.
I wonder how many of these I could use to replace light bulbs under my shop sink to keep things from freezing. :'
Likely fewer than you might think. Years (decades) ago.... I had a washing machine in a room that was little more than an old enclosed porch. To keep the sitting washer from freezing in the winter I added a fixture with a 40 watt bulb (25W would have been more than enough). When the temps dipped below freezing I switched the bulb to ON.
But times (and concepts) change. My primary bulbs [LED] used for lighting only use 8 watts. With that perspective it seems wasteful to expend 7 watts... so lesser LED's can be used. Almost like spending a dollar to save a dime (but not really).