X10 Community Forum

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: HA Dave on January 09, 2018, 10:39:45 AM

Title: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: HA Dave on January 09, 2018, 10:39:45 AM
The holiday rush is pretty much over. There are parking spaces at the mall and store shelves have been restocked. In many areas the weather is keeping people close to home. The only time I've spent outside would be to walk the dog.... and I don't have a dog.

This is the unofficial Home Automation season!

I recently heard from a fellow forum member who is using geofencing with his HA setup. Maybe because I am retired and I don't get out much (except to walk the pretend dog) I haven't figured out how to exploit this great new technology for my setup. Any ideas on how to exploit this newer HA tool.... would be greatly welcome.

Any OTHER new ideas or technology exploits would be also be welcome. New users macros for the CM15A would be nice. I myself... expect to be using the CM15A in some manner for a long time coming.

But third party use is VERY welcome as well. More and more... we are learning how best to integrate our X10 setup with the other latest-greatest devices. Often at very little cost. lazydiyer recently taught us how it integrate a Google Home device into X10 (http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=29927.msg170322#msg170322). Even if you don't use Google... it's well worth the short read.

Like many of us... I've added Amazon Echo's to my setup. And Tuicemen has added MANY new third party sub-forums to make finding info fast and easy. This is a great time.... both of year and in HA history... to review and share HA ideas.

Today... I did a "little wire management"... with a (wifi bulb) lamp, a wireless phone charger, cell phone charger, Echo, A (module controlled) Theater Chair (with elec footrest), and a legacy (BVC) powered speaker.... I had a clutter of wires. Too scarey with little grandkids running around. This 12 plug (and 3 USB's) unit seems to help declutter my setup.

 
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: petera on January 09, 2018, 03:34:58 PM
The big one for me is x10 on the Raspberry Pi. Both Mochad and Heyu on the Raspberry Pi has really given my Raspberry Pi's plenty of work to do. Homeseer and Domoticz are the main software I'm using at the moment. Homeseer is not cheap to buy but is very versatile. On the other hand Domoticz is open source and I had the the CM11 up and running on the Raspberry Pi in under two hours from scratch.

The Amazon Echo bridge from BWS Systems takes care of x10 to Amazon Echo communications so all in all a busy winter building x10 related goodies.

I've tried Tuiceman's Alex10 and it's very impressive but I'm not really a big Windows user. Linux is my chosen tech poison :)%
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: dave w on January 09, 2018, 03:49:34 PM
Dave HA
Where did you find that outlet strip?
I have a mess behind my couch with two outlet strips and a half dozen cube taps. Ugly.
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: Tuicemen on January 09, 2018, 04:16:03 PM
Alex10 started as merely a simple way for x10 users to get Alexa control without having to understand how to do complicated scripts that the HA-Brigde was requesting at the time.
Since developing Alex10  BWS Systems has been adding support for other software like Domoticz, this has caused HA-Bridge to become bloated software (my opinion).
You do not need Domoticz to use HA-Bridge on Linux nor do you need Alex10 on Windows.

I see Alexa, Google Home and to a lesser extent Cortana to be the 2018 must haves for HA.
I still use my PC voice (PcCompanion) and had been working to enhance it however Amazons Alexa and Google Home are making it look more and more like it is obsolete.

I've been playing with Samsungs SmartThings cloud developers console and this allows for many different protocols to use Alexa or Google Home.
The issue with this is there is no user friendly interface for those intimidated by scripts or simple programing (yet).

I looked at creating an Alexa skill for X10 but that requires learning a new language which isn't going to happen. :(
Creating Google Home skills don't look much easier B:(
Hopefully Authinx will come out with an Alexa Skill or at least release the protocol for the WM100 so some one else can create a skill for Alexa and/or Google  ::) :'
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: HA Dave on January 09, 2018, 04:27:34 PM
Dave HA
Where did you find that outlet strip?

Amazon. I ordered a couple other things at the same time.... so now even my Amazon shopping cart is empty. I am not saying Amazon gets a lot of my business. But I am afraid at this point if I don't at least put something in my cart... Amazon might ask local authorizes to check-up on me.

...................... Hopefully Authinx will come out with an Alexa Skill or at least release the protocol for the WM100 so some one else can create a skill for Alexa and/or Google  ::) :'

They should budget that into the product development. The value of being Amazon and Google compliant is almost unmeasurable.
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: Knightrider on January 09, 2018, 05:49:02 PM
Dave HA
Where did you find that outlet strip?
Why do you have that usb cord plugged into a cube and not the power strip itself?
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: petera on January 09, 2018, 07:41:47 PM
Alex10 started as merely a simple way for x10 users to get Alexa control without having to understand how to do complicated scripts that the HA-Brigde was requesting at the time.
Since developing Alex10  BWS Systems has been adding support for other software like Domoticz, this has caused HA-Bridge to become bloated software (my opinion).
You do not need Domoticz to use HA-Bridge on Linux nor do you need Alex10 on Windows.

I see Alexa, Google Home and to a lesser extent Cortana to be the 2018 must haves for HA.
I still use my PC voice (PcCompanion) and had been working to enhance it however Amazons Alexa and Google Home are making it look more and more like it is obsolete.

I've been playing with Samsungs SmartThings cloud developers console and this allows for many different protocols to use Alexa or Google Home.
The issue with this is there is no user friendly interface for those intimidated by scripts or simple programing (yet).

I looked at creating an Alexa skill for X10 but that requires learning a new language which isn't going to happen. :(
Creating Google Home skills don't look much easier B:(
Hopefully Authinx will come out with an Alexa Skill or at least release the protocol for the WM100 so some one else can create a skill for Alexa and/or Google  ::) :'

Quite a number of long time users of x10 have jumped ship over the collapse of AHP and the delay in finding a successor. I've followed your posts both here and on your own site and to be honest I think Authinx are playing a serious game of catch up at this stage. Patience is something that users do not have a lot of these days. Big on promise and short on delivery springs to mind.

You've done some sterling work assisting the remaining users of AHP to continue using x10 and for both that work and your other side projects relating to x10 on the Windows you have to be commended.

I stopped using Windows after the demise of XP and turned to Linux and have not looked back. I find choices in Linux are far greater and while the learning curve can be a bit steeper the rewards are worth it. This coupled with the fact that x10 is very usable on the Raspberry Pi now and off site control of my x10 automation and it's ability to integrate with other technologies on the same single board computer wins the day for me.

I'm using Domoticz for other technologies on the Raspberry Pi as well as for x10 so it was a bonus to be able to use x10 in this way. It means that for me x10 has a future in my home automation system setup.
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: HA Dave on January 09, 2018, 08:35:24 PM
Why do you have that usb cord plugged into a cube and not the power strip itself?

That unit has 3 USB outlets. Two are smart outlets (supposed to provide faster charging) and can provide up to 3.1 amps. The little white cube (in the picture) is my iPhone. I am overly protective of the iPhone... I only use the Apple [brand] chargers on it. The Black taller cube is the Echo Dot... and I am not sure of it's amperage (or even voltage) requirement. And since plug space there was no longer a consideration.... . I just plugged in the cubes.

But on the bright side. The USB outlets mean I won't have to fiddle around so much charging either of my Android tablets or my stand alone video cameras. Plus any visitors that need to charge their phone.... I have an outlet.
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: HA Dave on January 09, 2018, 08:42:56 PM
......... to be honest I think Authinx are playing a serious game of catch up at this stage. Patience is something that users do not have a lot of these days.

....................I stopped using Windows after the demise of XP and turned to Linux and have not looked back....... This coupled with the fact that x10 is very usable on the Raspberry Pi now and off site control of my x10 automation and it's ability to integrate with other technologies on the same single board computer wins the day for me.

My Homeseer Hometroller is a Raspberry Pi device that allows me to use a CM15A interface to control my X10. And admittedly it runs rock solid.
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: tflemer on January 09, 2018, 08:49:54 PM
I think a round of Auld Lang Syne might be in order here.  Another year where I didn’t convert to z wave.  I still remember hauling a small box of Insteon to the Goodwill about ten years ago.  While You Tubing to get an understanding of OpenHab, I watched this fella saying version 2 is so easy to install, anybody can do it.  Well – yes the install, which he did on YT, went well.  Then he started to talk about z wave.  Something went wrong, which I could not translate from the mumbling, except he had to bind all 50 of his modules a second time.  There are a couple things in z wave that are interesting, but 2018 will not be a year for full conversion.  My X10 is paid for and not dead.

Mrs. Tom bought me a Raspberry Pi for Christmas.  Yes-I am five years behind.  I was just waiting for version 3B.  Ho, ho, ha.  Really liking this little board.  I am familiar with other flavors of Linux, but Raspian Stretch is straight forward.  Sparse, but a full load of office tools.  I tried a few third-party HA packages on it.  I am settling on Homegenie for now.  Must be a glutton for punishment, going to HG after waiting for AHP to update.   Just being able to access the HA from any browser or tablet is up lifting.  I had a few thumps and bumps along the way. HG is starting to take shape.

To draw a parallel here, everything is Amazon this Amazon that.  Walmart is mounting a formidable attack.  Many people are pushing their budgets around to spend Amazon.  As if Jeff B will be the last man standing.  There will be people that feel abused and will shop elsewhere.  To the point, there is plenty of space for all the HAs to coexist.  Casualties – yes.  Is there a heavy hitter out there?  The other PLC, Programmable Logic Control, certainly has few.  Would be interesting if one of them saw enough market space to run.  Alexa, Google Home, Harmony, Siri…Watson.  A lot to look forward to.  I am liking Homegenie on RPi3B for now.

I don’t have a dog either.  Mother nature recently required that I walk the snow thrower.  Does that count?

Thanks to all the people on this forum for their help and humor. >!
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: petera on January 10, 2018, 03:46:40 AM
Yes Homegenie seemed to be an interesting product and x10 ran fairly smoothly on it either through Windows or in Linux via Mono. I used it for about a year quite successfully. Unfortunately the author became disenchanted, pulled his website down which contained a wealth of information and community exchange and while others attempt to develop and maintain the product it's very difficult to track its progress now.

Z-Wave has its supporters and it's detractors and there's no disputing it's capabilities but I'm noticing more and more problems for users of it. It's a lot more complicated and involved setting it up unlike x10 so I'm in no hurry to offload x10 just yet.

I'll definitely not be investing as much time and energy into similar technologies arriving on the market now. The reason I suppose is I doubt that most of them will not last a fraction of the time that x10 has survived.

Surprisingly enough I still find new uses for x10 as each week passes. >!
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: lviper on January 10, 2018, 05:28:42 AM
While I haven't completely jumped the x10 ship, I did jump the AHP ship and boarded the HCA ship. HCA is Home Control Assistant from Advanced Quonset Technology. HCA does support X10 but also Insteon and UPB as well as a few others. The recent version now has cloud access and supports both google home and alexa as well as the nest thermostat.

It's not cheap software and I'm not all that happy with needing to pay for the cloud access with a yearly subscription, but since I had invested in the XTB-IIR and what I consider a large handful of X10 stuff, I wanted something that allowed me to continue to use X10 while I looked at and moved on to another protocol and system. HCA fit that bill. HCA also didn't require a cloud subscription till the latest ver 14. I started with ver 12.

2 years and 2 versions later I'm still using HCA with just X10. I never jumped ship to another system. Mainly because HCA with my CM11a, XTB-IIR and the W800usb for wireless has been rock solid. I had a few areas in the house where the RF wasn't too good but have since added 2 of the new x10 signal repeaters. One each at the very front and back of the house with the W800 in the center. Works great now. So I guess you can say HCA was my life raft to keep me on the X10 boat.

Anyway, I recently added the SmartThings Link to my Nvidia Shield TV. Now my shield tv (Android TV with Google Assistant) is a smartthings hub. I bought a promo special where I got the link, motion/temp sensor and 2 Sengled smart bulbs for $60. Figured I would give it a try for that price. But as I learned, there weren't many good options for remotes that work out of the box. We have become very accustomed to having palm pads and slim switches for the X10 system where ever we wanted them. Smartthings didn't have an easy solution. Smartthings uses both Zigbee and Zwave but not every zigbee or zwave device works out of the box. Many need custom smart apps and/or device handlers to work and I'm not a programmer. There are many custom apps and handlers already made by 3rd parties, but some of them seem confusing to setup. Just have to dig a little deeper I guess.

However, I did go on a quest to see if I could make HCA control the new smartthings bulbs. Integration would solve the palm pad and slim switch problem as well as others things. So I used the ideas from here for inspiration. Using HCA to run Curl I figured out I could send a command to IFTTT using Webhooks to then control the smartthings bulbs. That was my first hack but the delay could be between 3 and 5 seconds. That long of a delay is not acceptable.

I decided to look the other direction and see if I could have smartthings control my HCA X10 stuff. While the solutions I found and tried on here worked, I wanted to eliminate IFTTT and needing to have another program with another device. So I played with the HCA cloud's developer stuff and finally hacked a way to get a device handler in smartthings to control a light in HCA. It was quick and worked well. Problem is like I said earlier, I'm no programmer and I only got that working if I hard coded the needed params in the device handler. I'm completely lost trying to figure out how to get and pass the information from a simulated switch to the device handler that can be sent in a Json body using HTTP Post.

So that's where I stand at the moment. I really want to integrate ST with HCA so each one can control the other using the cloud. I also want to use the Lutron Caseta wireless switches since I have an old house and their switch doesn't need a neutral wire and will work with led bulbs. The lutron hub works with ST so if I had integration with ST and HCA I could still use my palm pads and slim switches to turn on the lights as well as all the other powerful stuff I can do with HCA.

Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: HA Dave on January 10, 2018, 05:32:42 AM
I think a round of Auld Lang Syne might be in order here.  Another year where I didn’t convert to ................... 2018 will not be a year for full conversion.  My X10 is paid for and not dead.

When I bought my last router..... I was nearly into the commercial line. I use a LOT of WiFi and bandwidth. I can't but wonder.... if all this additional WiFi home automation stuff won't "crowd" the bandwidth. If this is a betting opportunity.... I am betting most routers are going to get a little too busy in the coming months. A guy called me and asked which router he should my buy. Knowing what I know about hacking and the state of progress and change.... I told him to rent his router from the cable company.

It's nice to know that 433mhz and X10 PLC's aren't hurting broadband.

Mrs. Tom bought me a Raspberry Pi for Christmas.  Yes-I am five years behind.  I was just waiting for version 3B.  Ho, ho, ha.  Really liking this little board.  I am familiar with other flavors of Linux, but Raspian Stretch is straight forward.  Sparse, but a full load of office tools.......

I have to try a Pi.

To draw a parallel here, everything is Amazon this Amazon that. .........  Alexa, Google Home, Harmony, Siri…Watson.  A lot to look forward to.  I am liking Homegenie on RPi3B for now.

It's a good time to be around. Our futures are limited... ONLY by our imaginations.

I don’t have a dog either.  Mother nature recently required that I walk the snow thrower.  Does that count?

I don't think so (just MHO). Unless of course.... you really enjoy snow throwing. I came to the conclusion decades ago... that the difference between healthful exercise and old fashion effort.... is the enjoyment. Thank God there are TONS of fun stuff to do outside (or at the gym).

Thanks to all the people on this forum for their help and humor. >!

Let me add my thanks to yours! There was a time..... I was so bummed at the apparent demise of X10... and the commercialization of (cable company) home automation installations. I though my beloved hobby... (addiction?) was going to fade away. Thanks to the people here at this forum... many I often disagreed with about automation use and future... I muddled through.

Now... we seem to be in the beginning of a new golden age of HA.
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: HA Dave on January 10, 2018, 05:45:16 AM
While I haven't completely jumped the x10 ship, I did jump the AHP ship and boarded the HCA ship. HCA is Home Control Assistant from Advanced Quonset Technology. HCA does support X10 but also Insteon and UPB as well as a few others. The recent version now has cloud access and supports both google home and alexa as well as the nest thermostat.

It's not cheap software and I'm not all that happy with needing to pay for the cloud access with a yearly subscription, .................

I am not totally resistant to fee's myself (but I am also not a fan). But keep checking back. There are solutions that don't involve fees or programing skills. AND X10 is working on a soon to be released WiFi module too. One of the forum member here, fernracer gave me his old Hometroller (homeseer). NOT a cheap device.... but a rock solid Pi based unit that has been allowing me to control my X10 via Alexa and my AHP/CM15A macros. 
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: HA Dave on January 10, 2018, 05:47:11 AM
......  Surprisingly enough I still find new uses for x10 as each week passes. >!

Please feel fee to share any ideas for HA use. I am ALWAYS looking for a current or future HA project. I am kinda hooked on this stuff.
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: petera on January 10, 2018, 08:25:24 AM
You have to try a Raspberry Pi HA DAVE. it's become an x10 haven for me. A single board computer drawing 2.5 amp operating on 5 vdc. Believe me once you get one, load up Raspbian on a micro SD you'll never look back. Guaranteed to extend your life tinkering around with all the different options you can run x10 under. Plug it in, walk away and you'll forget it was even there. -:)
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: HA Dave on January 10, 2018, 08:44:07 AM
You have to try a Raspberry Pi ....... all the different options you can run x10 under.

Tell me more.
I am a Raspberry Pi believer (Hometroller owner) already. What software is readily available (other than Homeseer)? Is there a HeyU or something that can run a CM15A like my Hometroller does? Names or links would be awesome.
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: petera on January 10, 2018, 10:10:37 AM
You have to try a Raspberry Pi ....... all the different options you can run x10 under.

Tell me more.
I am a Raspberry Pi believer (Hometroller owner) already. What software is readily available (other than Homeseer)? Is there a HeyU or something that can run a CM15A like my Hometroller does? Names or links would be awesome.

Heyu for the CM11 and Mochad for the CM15.

To get you started HomeGenie mentioned above will more than fulfill your x10 needs and any other automation  needs you may have.

Here's the download link http://www.homegenie.it/

Domoticz is another one for later once you get familiar with HomeGenie. We can fill you in more as you progress.

Main thing is you get your Raspberry Pi3 and download and install Raspbian Stretch first. Again no shortage of gurus to help you on your way here. This will definitely keep you busy in the long winter months and well into spring and summer.

There's plenty of other users on this site to give you a helping hand along with myself. All you have to do is ask.

Just plug in the Pi and get busy >!
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: HA Dave on January 10, 2018, 01:35:19 PM
....... Main thing is you get your Raspberry Pi3 and download and install Raspbian Stretch first. Again no shortage of gurus to help you on your way here. This will definitely keep you busy in the long winter months and well into spring and summer.

So would this be a good device to get?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0778CZ97B/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A30ZYR2W3VAJ0A&psc=1

Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: petera on January 10, 2018, 03:09:33 PM
....... Main thing is you get your Raspberry Pi3 and download and install Raspbian Stretch first. Again no shortage of gurus to help you on your way here. This will definitely keep you busy in the long winter months and well into spring and summer.

So would this be a good device to get?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0778CZ97B/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A30ZYR2W3VAJ0A&psc=1

Perfect starter kit. You have everything you need there to get the Raspberry Pi up and running.

Once you've purchased it it's just a case of downloading the Raspbian Stretch zip file, making an image of the Raspbian OS on the micro SD card using the Diskimage utility , pop it into the SD card slot on the Raspberry Pi and you're good to go.

You can achieve all this either by attaching a keyboard, mouse and monitor directly to the Raspberry Pi or do it on a Windows machine remotely by logging into the Pi via SSH.

As I said, get the kit first and we can take it from there. :)%

Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: toasterking on January 10, 2018, 04:49:40 PM
I recently heard from a fellow forum member who is using geofencing with his HA setup. Maybe because I am retired and I don't get out much (except to walk the pretend dog) I haven't figured out how to exploit this great new technology for my setup. Any ideas on how to exploit this newer HA tool.... would be greatly welcome.
Since you asked...  I have some pretty insane expectations for geofencing inside the home.  :o

I've had this dream of adding an accurate means of per-room occupancy detection and people counting for some time now.  The idea is for the HA computer to track where multiple occupants are in the house at all times.  If a person enters a room occupied by 0 people, the lights magically turn on to light their way and, provided the room they exited now has 0 occupants, the lights turn off behind them.  If music is playing on the overhead speakers in the room they exited, it is switched to the room they enter, and the same goes for voice guidance.  If a room is empty for an hour and the TV is still on, automatically shut that thing off.  If someone spends some time at the far end of the bathroom and exits the room without flushing the toilet, flush it automatically.  If it's late and people are asleep (pressure pads in the beds), lights come on at a dimmer level and voice feedback is kept at a minimum.  If all occupants exit all rooms and do not reenter for a timeout period, the last occupant to leave is sent a text message and asked if the house should be locked up.  If the user clicks the "Yes" link, the exterior doors are locked and the security system armed.  The possibilities are nearly endless.

As far as actually scripting all this mess, I have the necessary framework figured out.  The real question has been how to implement the means of detection.  I've researched and theorized with lots of options, including BTLE keyfobs, infrared transmitters, infrared beams, motion detectors, and ultrasonic sensors.  And I'd finally settled on a solution that involves using four VL53L0X time-of-flight sensors (https://www.adafruit.com/product/3317) (two on each side because the cone of sensitivity is fairly narrow) plus one Arduino board per doorway.  The two sensors would be mounted next to each other on the ceiling just in front of each side of the doorway.  The idea is that a person walking through any doorway would be detected first on one side and then the other.  The software can use this to determine the direction of travel and adjust the occupancy count for each room accordingly, then take actions based on the numbers.  The time-of-flight sensor can also detect distance, so pets, small children, and the door itself opening and closing can be ignored or handled differently.  The Arduino would handle all the data coming from the sensors, identify events and condense them to one piece of data (e.g. "zone a-->b, height 5'8""), and send it to the HA computer via RS232 or Ethernet, and the HA computer would adjust the counts and take actions.  I've read enough spec sheets and played with the scripts enough to put together a plan to make this work.  After enough begging, Adafruit even updated their library for us (https://forums.adafruit.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=116898&sid=089893463746aa5e968b124eb35795a6&start=15#p597281) to handle multiple sensors at once.  The only problem I hadn't figured out was how to figure out which person was where.  That would allow each person to have different preferences.  The other issue is that if the logic misses just a single room transition, it would be dealing with inaccurate data for every move unless there are other sensors in the rooms providing enough information to trigger the logic to invalidate the counts and correct the numbers.  This was also going to require a huge amount of effort -- installing, wiring, coding, tweaking, head-banging -- on my part, so I'd been putting it off until other projects are out of the way and I can truly devote the time.

But now, I'm again rethinking the whole thing because... [cue trumpet fanfare]
Superaccurate GPS Chips Coming to Smartphones in 2018 (https://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/semiconductors/design/superaccurate-gps-chips-coming-to-smartphones-in-2018)
Broadcom has a GPS sensor out that supposedly reports its location with an accuracy of 30 cm (11.8 inches).  With virtually everyone carrying smartphones now, I ought to be able to leverage this tech, at least for the house's typical occupants, to solve all of the above problems with very little effort and expense.  I imagine I would have to write a smartphone app to get location updates securely to my web server/HA computer without going through a third-party service, but if I can do that, map the latitude/longitude coordinates in all the rooms, and the GPS signals are able permeate the roof and ceiling without issue, the rest should be a breeze, and with no additional hardware needed (other than updated smartphones, which happens on a regular basis anyway).

Good thing it's a single-story house, or I'd need to track the phone's z-axis (elevation) also!
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: HA Dave on January 10, 2018, 05:41:59 PM
Since you asked...  I have some pretty insane expectations for geofencing inside the home.  :o

I've had this dream of adding an accurate means of per-room occupancy detection and people counting ................

My God man..... I share your dream. However... I am not smart enough.... or even ambitious enough. A few years ago... Tuicemen even wrote a Bluetooth program (BlueWatch) that would allow my HA PC to know when a phone arrived and/or left the home. Since home is only my wife and myself.... my problem seemed limited. I thought [maybe] security motion sensors might narrow down the rooms.

I already had BVC (a Microsoft based voice command software for X10). So I could use X10 to control my X10 using a crude microphone setup I had then. Switching ON the only needed area/microphone. However.... my efforts failed. I eventually gave-up and waited for the technology to progress. But keep in mind.... this was years ago. Amazon was still... just a book seller.

With the addition of Alexa in the last year or so.... WAF for my automation has increased greatly. Once the wife became accustomed to asking the device for music.... turning off a forgotten basement light by voice command became a welcome pleasure. :)%

I think the time for your automation dream has come!  #:)

 
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: HA Dave on January 10, 2018, 05:46:00 PM
Perfect starter kit......... Once you've purchased it it's just a case of downloading the Raspbian Stretch zip file, making an image of the Raspbian OS on the micro SD card using the Diskimage utility , pop it into the SD card slot on the Raspberry Pi and you're good to go.

Very cool... I am so stoked... I am going to pretend I know what all that means.
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: toasterking on January 10, 2018, 06:20:12 PM
I thought [maybe] security motion sensors might narrow down the rooms.
I thought so too, initially.  Motion detectors are a decent means of occupancy detection in theory.  In practice, they suck.  When they work, they can report that something is moving in the room.  But they have a limited field of detection, so they can't accommodate all areas of the room at once; they can't be used to determine how many people enter the room; they can't detect when a person leaves the room; they don't detect subtle motions (Is the room vacant, or is someone in there reading a book or sleeping?).  And even worse, when they don't work, they are easily fooled by pets and sometimes even air currents that cause a temperature differential (speaking strictly of PIR in this case).  Really all they can do is detect that someone or something is probably in the room for a brief instant.  Not good enough!  All of these reasons convinced me that I need to be checking the actual doorways rather than just watching for something inside the room, and that no existing X10 gear is good enough.  And even at that point, it's more of a game of rigging a "trap" for my sensor of choice so that it gets exploited only in the way I want it to.  Sadly, that's pretty much the state of the art for most consumer security tech.  Perhaps someday, I can just place a camera in the room and software can decipher the live feed and be adept enough to follow the human bodies in the video frames and "understand" where they are going and what they are doing, and maybe even determine which person it is.  Truly, that day may not be too far in the future.  But if we now have a sensor that can tell us where it is located with a precision of less than a foot, and the occupants will be carrying this sensor anyway, it all becomes moot, because there is no longer a problem to solve!

(When the fictitious software watching the camera feed is also able to determine what the person is doing (sitting down to watch a movie? stealing something?) and their mood or intention by body language (such that the "system" can play a particular kind of music, lock the doors, call the EMS, etc.) then we can revisit that as a separate project.  And that's when things could get very fun and very scary!)
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: petera on January 11, 2018, 12:25:54 AM
Perfect starter kit......... Once you've purchased it it's just a case of downloading the Raspbian Stretch zip file, making an image of the Raspbian OS on the micro SD card using the Diskimage utility , pop it into the SD card slot on the Raspberry Pi and you're good to go.

Very cool... I am so stoked... I am going to pretend I know what all that means.


You won't believe how easy it is once you get started. As I said plenty here to help you on your way too. :)%
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: Tuicemen on January 11, 2018, 01:00:35 AM
toasterking
What your looking to do with a camera can be done.
it requires a special 3d camera like the Xbox 360 it can tell where in a room a person is how far in and to which side it can also detect if the person is sitting or standing.
Several years ago Nitrogen logic created something like this, Kenrad added several to his setup.

http://www.nitrogenlogic.com

I've mostly experimented with the microphone array in this which in its self is awesome as it to can tell from where in the room a voice is coming from.
I did however play a bit with the camera side as well and can get it to detect me if I'm sitting or standing.
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: HA Dave on January 11, 2018, 03:10:04 AM
....... Motion detectors are a decent means of occupancy detection in theory.  In practice, they suck.

True.

There are Facial Recognition cameras (https://www.amazon.com/Indoor-Security-Camera-Vision-Recognition/dp/B06XYGSD1M/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1515680869&sr=8-3-fkmr1&keywords=facial+reconstruction+indoor+camera) now.... even kinda cheap. But we may yet still be just slightly short of technologically... "there".

That is what makes Home Automation the perfect hobby/interest for dreamers and visionarys. We will never be "there". We may be able to live on the bleeding edge of technology.... as many on this forum has had "smart homes"..... many years before the term was even invented. But our dreams of what we can be will always be further ahead of the available technology. But the challange is always, IMHO, finding ways to exploit what affordable technologies are available.

 
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: toasterking on January 11, 2018, 10:56:24 AM
What your looking to do with a camera can be done.
it requires a special 3d camera like the Xbox 360...
That is completely rad.  I really had done no research into this and just assumed the thought was too ahead of the technology.  I still expect that a more precise GPS fix will be more reliable for determining an occupant's position, but I may start playing with this also to see what else can currently be done with it.  I even have a spare Kinect camera I'm not using.  Thanks, Tuice!  ;D
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: toasterking on January 11, 2018, 11:21:11 AM
We will never be "there". [...] the challange is always, IMHO, finding ways to exploit what affordable technologies are available.
Completely agree.  And I think you demonstrate an understanding of this that few consumers do.  But then again, many consumers are not visionaries, don't want to tinker, and would just rather throw money at problems and hope they go away!

However... I am not smart enough.... or even ambitious enough.
While I cannot confirm either, I am of the opinion that the ambition is way more important than the smarts.  Even complete imbeciles develop skills for things they are interested in.  ;)

BTW, some cursory investigation reveals that should I have access to an early Android device this year with the new BCM47755 chip, I should be able to use Tasker to do some experimenting without actually writing any code.  With a plugin, it can detect movement of the device and trigger execution of a script I "write" (build with a touchscreen GUI).  The script can capture the current GPS location and send it to my web server via HTTPS POST.  Theoretically, I could also package the script as a regular Android app once I get it perfected.  How well this works and how much it drains the battery remains to be seen.  I am good on the back end to process the POST data with AutoIt and send X10 commands via X10nets (AHSDK) and my XTB-232, because I already put all of that together for my cloud-free voice response experiment (http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=29203.msg167242#msg167242). 

I haven't played with any ideas on iOS yet.
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: Tuicemen on January 11, 2018, 11:38:00 AM
Depending on which Kinects your using there are Kinects SDKs available for Windows as well there is some open source code if you look hard enough.  ;)

Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: HA Dave on January 11, 2018, 10:06:40 PM
............ Once you've purchased it it's just a case of downloading the Raspbian Stretch zip file, making an image of the Raspbian OS on the micro SD card using the Diskimage utility , pop it into the SD card slot on the Raspberry Pi and you're good to go.

You can achieve all this either by attaching a keyboard, mouse and monitor directly to the Raspberry Pi or do it on a Windows machine remotely by logging into the Pi via SSH.

As I said, get the kit first and we can take it from there. :)%

I ordered it today.

Found a video that looks like it might be helpful?!?!?  https://youtu.be/gbJB3387xUw
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: petera on January 12, 2018, 07:43:00 AM
............ Once you've purchased it it's just a case of downloading the Raspbian Stretch zip file, making an image of the Raspbian OS on the micro SD card using the Diskimage utility , pop it into the SD card slot on the Raspberry Pi and you're good to go.

You can achieve all this either by attaching a keyboard, mouse and monitor directly to the Raspberry Pi or do it on a Windows machine remotely by logging into the Pi via SSH.

As I said, get the kit first and we can take it from there. :)%

I ordered it today.

Found a video that looks like it might be helpful?!?!?  https://youtu.be/gbJB3387xUw

Yes a lot of install tutorials on YouTube and plenty of other sources on the web too. Another YouTube tutorial that might be of help too
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Th_3AvK-EbM

Remember once you have gotten used to the look and feel of the Raspberry Pi you will be able to eventually disconnect all the peripherals and access the Raspberry Pi from any computer you like via SSH. As the Raspberry Pi has wifi and Bluetooth built in the only peripheral you will need attached to it is whatever x10 controller you choose.

HomeGenie like most other HA software these days is accessed via web API's so your Raspberry Pi will act as a server. Again this for later but you will find it is quite easy to set up
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: racerfern on January 12, 2018, 07:53:40 AM
I just bought and installed a RPI3 32gB with a zigbee card. Going to have to play with connecting to my HomeSeer/z-wave and to X10. I may move my other CM15A from the PC to the RPi, not sure yet.

I opted for the complete canakit with housing, SD card, power supply, etc. The kit comes with a pre-loaded SD card with various options. For under a $100 including zigbee it will keep me busy for quite some time.  ;D

Using VNC to connect from other PC in the house. And using graphical interface for now. NOOB!
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: HA Dave on January 12, 2018, 09:38:17 AM
......... Yes a lot of install tutorials on YouTube and plenty of other sources on the web too......

Remember once you have gotten used to the look and feel of the Raspberry Pi you will be able to eventually disconnect all the peripherals and access the Raspberry Pi from any computer you like via SSH. As the Raspberry Pi has wifi and Bluetooth built in the only peripheral you will need attached to it is whatever x10 controller you choose.

HomeGenie like most other HA software these days is accessed via web API's so your Raspberry Pi will act as a server. Again this for later but you will find it is quite easy to set up

This is so VERY familiar.... as I have been running the Hometroller (Homeseer) which runs a (proprietary I would assume) version of software on a RBP. I am stoked! Can't wait for the Raspberry Pi unit to arrive. I haven't had a nice project like this for months!
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: HA Dave on January 12, 2018, 09:57:53 AM
I just bought and installed a RPI3 32gB with a zigbee card. Going to have to play with connecting to my HomeSeer/z-wave and to X10. I may move my other CM15A from the PC to the RPi, not sure yet.

We think alike! I just ordered
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0778CZ97B/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A30ZYR2W3VAJ0A&psc=1
]this Pi unit (http://[quote author=HA Dave link=topic=30017.msg170726#msg170726 date=1515609319) My hope.... is to replace my old HA laptop (with the XP OS) which runs a CM15A....  that also is running BVC.

The wife and I have become very accustomed to having a talking house (thanks to the BVC software). But..... I like the idea of simplifying the setup with these units. I've been VERY impressed with the Homeseer-Hometroller unit you sent/gave me.

But.... I also like the idea of learning a new skill... and exploiting this no-longer new technology.
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: petera on January 12, 2018, 10:21:21 AM
......... Yes a lot of install tutorials on YouTube and plenty of other sources on the web too......

Remember once you have gotten used to the look and feel of the Raspberry Pi you will be able to eventually disconnect all the peripherals and access the Raspberry Pi from any computer you like via SSH. As the Raspberry Pi has wifi and Bluetooth built in the only peripheral you will need attached to it is whatever x10 controller you choose.

HomeGenie like most other HA software these days is accessed via web API's so your Raspberry Pi will act as a server. Again this for later but you will find it is quite easy to set up

This is so VERY familiar.... as I have been running the Hometroller (Homeseer) which runs a (proprietary I would assume) version of software on a RBP. I am stoked! Can't wait for the Raspberry Pi unit to arrive. I haven't had a nice project like this for months!

Well HA DAVE you already have a Raspberry Pi so if you have a Hometroller Zee. An older Pi model with an older version of Homeseer and Raspbian running on it. Just pop the case apart, it clips apart and check what model you have. The Raspberry Pi 3 is a far greater speced board and you'll notice the difference once you have it up and running.

The Homeseer Forum will have all the info you need to get x10 up and running too. And don't be afraid to ask the members here either. I have my RPI 3 running my alarm panel, my cameras and my lights and switches (via x10) all through Homeseer. I put my RPI inside my alarm panel which powers it via a step down 12vdc to 5vdc so I'm not even aware it's there now.

My laptops/desktops are retired now. I use another RPI running Ubuntu for my computing needs and everything runs 24/7 and I'd hardly notice the difference on my electricity bill.
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: HA Dave on January 12, 2018, 12:25:40 PM
...........Well HA DAVE you already have a Raspberry Pi.. if you have a Hometroller Zee. ...................... The Raspberry Pi 3 is a far greater speced board and you'll notice the difference once you have it up and running.

The Homeseer Forum will have all the info you need to get x10 up and running too. And don't be afraid to ask the members here either.

My laptops/desktops are retired now. I use another RPI running Ubuntu for my computing needs and everything runs 24/7 and I'd hardly notice the difference on my electricity bill.

Yeah.... I knew the Hometroller was/is a Raspberry Pi. And I LOVE that device! Thanks again to racerfern for the Hometroller.

I am also a HUGE ;D fan of X10 and Home Automation in general. And I fully expect to quickly become a fan of X10's new WiFi device (soon to be released). But with SO MUCH happening with HA tech right now.... I can't help but dive right in and explore and test out as many possibilities as I can. Even though I am late for the Linux, and Raspberry party.... as others here at the forum have already lead the way.

Turning my back on Microsoft.... would be like... deleting Kate16 ;D (my 16 bit female computer voice that talks to me). We've been together a very long time. rofl 

But times change. And I need to keep up. I've complained and hassled other forum members about their reluctance to accept the benefits of cloud computing. I have been a diehard Microsoft user (and former net work admin).... for many years. However.... I am open minded and willing to keep an eye out for new opportunities and imaginative solutions. Particularly when it comes to technology. As this is the time of year (the Home Automation season) to try out the most time consuming efforts (and fun parts) of HA. 
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: racerfern on January 12, 2018, 01:10:05 PM
We need a special forum for wifi/X10/zwave/zigbee/whatever mix and make work along with Alexa/Siri/Google/BVC/ and run by HomeSeer/Domocitz/AHP/openhab/.

Someone fill me in on anything I missed.

My first zigbee purchase: http://bit.ly/2muokMD

@HA Dave - I bought this zigbee board: http://amzn.to/2CW0505
Also, the kit you ordered comes with an SD card with all kinds of versions of the OS. I went with the first one. No need to zip, unzip, write images, etch SD cards, etc. Go with the canakit instructions before you start following a youtube video. The canakit setup is pretty bullet proof. Stick the card in the slot, plug it in and you're on your way.

Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: HA Dave on January 12, 2018, 04:16:34 PM
@HA Dave ........
... the kit you ordered comes with an SD card with all kinds of versions of the OS. I went with the first one. No need to zip, unzip, write images, etch SD cards, etc. Go with the canakit instructions before you start following a youtube video. The canakit setup is pretty bullet proof. Stick the card in the slot, plug it in and you're on your way.

Yeah..... there are bunches of Raspberry Pi kits. The basic $36 credit card sized computer is still easy to find. But... I went with the full-blown, everything included, latest, fastest, assembled in UK version. Because...... I don't know what I doing... and want it to work. I am looking forward to learning more about this. While meanwhile.... thanks to your old Hometroller.... my X10 functions flawlessly with my Amazon echo, or by app on my phone from anywhere.
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: racerfern on January 12, 2018, 06:26:12 PM
@HA Dave - I bought the exact same kit as you. I've jumped through the hoops so email me before you jump into the fire.
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: HA Dave on January 12, 2018, 09:41:21 PM
@HA Dave - I bought the exact same kit as you. I've jumped through the hoops so email me before you jump into the fire.

Very cool.
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: HA Dave on January 14, 2018, 04:22:16 PM
My Raspberry Pi just arrived.
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: HA Dave on January 14, 2018, 08:33:42 PM
The cartoon is how it felt. A tiny little box with a few tiny parts. Assembled with old (junk) leftover parts... wired keyboard and mouse... a square-ish monitor. The setup was different... yet completely familiar... everything was in English (that's always helpful for me).

Gathering parts and pieces, assembling the Raspberry's box, and installing an operating system.... took about an hour. Or as we used to say... less than five X10 minute's.

Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: Brian H on January 15, 2018, 05:49:29 AM
Looks real fine.
I may try some X10 stuff with one of mine.

I added a HDMI to VGA adapter to one of mine. So I could see it on an old VGA monitor. Though I got the optional 1/8" signal cable. With L and R audio, composite video signal. Still in the package it was in.

I have another one with the Official Pi Touch Screen and a SmartPi case to mount them in.
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: HA Dave on January 15, 2018, 10:21:54 AM
I may try some X10 stuff with one of mine.
I added a HDMI to VGA adapter to one of mine. So I could see it on an old VGA monitor.....

I had a HDMI to DVI adapter already.... that's an old monitor... but it had a DVI (as well as VGA) plug.

I am thinking........ MAYBE... installing the windows 10 core as an OS. Then AHP and Smart Macros + BVC (maybe have to create wav files for announcements).

Still ALOT to figure out. I'd like to take down my BVC laptop (it's 17 years old). But... I love the voice announcements and warnings!
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: racerfern on January 15, 2018, 10:25:45 AM
Quote
I am thinking........ MAYBE... installing the windows 10 core as an OS.

Definitely keep me posted on this. Thanks and good luck!
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: Tuicemen on January 15, 2018, 10:29:54 AM
I've read mixed reviews on Windows core but, I've seen a few YouTube videos of it in action for HA using the built in Cortana voice assistant.
It does look promising.
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: HA Dave on January 15, 2018, 10:37:14 AM
Definitely keep me posted on this. Thanks and good luck!

No problem! I was greatly helped with your email directions... and encouragement.

Many of my HA trials in the past.... have ended in failure. But the successes make the failures well worth it. I feel like getting a Pi PC up and running was a success in itself.... well worth the price of admission.
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: dhouston on January 15, 2018, 11:39:26 AM
I've read mixed reviews on Windows core but, I've seen a few YouTube videos of it in action for HA using the built in Cortana voice assistant.
It does look promising.
I posted this 18 months ago.
http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=29607.msg166632#msg166632 (http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=29607.msg166632#msg166632)

The link in my post no longer points to the original issue so here's the Magic Mirror article.
https://www.raspberrypi.org/magpi/magic-mirror/ (https://www.raspberrypi.org/magpi/magic-mirror/)
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: Tuicemen on January 15, 2018, 12:08:52 PM
I seem to remember reading that Dave.
The videos I've seen using Cortana and HA I believe were using the new Cortana HA Skills available for it.
This would allow users to add HA without requiring any programing skills.
SmartThings has a skill for it and I have managed to control X10 via Alexa and Google using the SmartThings skill
I've tried to test some of these skills out there for Cortana but they are Geoblocked, I'm told they will be available to Canada in the near future. ::) :'
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: HA Dave on January 15, 2018, 12:30:48 PM
....I posted this 18 months ago.

You, Brian H and maybe a handful of others are well ahead of me (and most of everyone else in the world) on this. I don't know if I'll ever get caught up! I am trying to approach this methodically (I hope that helps).

But with X10's WiFi unit so close to a release date.... if they offer the required [Amazon] "skill"... then it's game over in many ways. Because otherwise this stuff is a little too nerdy for most of us.... maybe me included. Meanwhile... those who wish to live "cloud-free" (if that was possible) need not pair the X10 unit (win, win).

I'd still like to have the BVC voice alerts. I just wonder if Bill could create a Raspbian version of BVC?
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: Tuicemen on January 15, 2018, 01:14:04 PM

I'd still like to have the BVC voice alerts. I just wonder if Bill could create a Raspbian version of BVC?
Doing voice alerts wouldn't be to hard the issue would be using the voice or face set you have enjoyed.
The Viceme events in order to sync the graphics I believe is unique to Windows (however I could be wrong).
I did manage to hack something together and work for Android with TAC but no where near as smooth as in Windows.

Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: bkenobi on January 15, 2018, 04:03:28 PM
If you are going to install it on a LCD or TV, consider getting one of the VESA mounts.  It can connect right to the back of the display as though it was meant to be there.  I've actually even seen some that make a bubble of sorts over the RPi so it look integrated rather than an add-on.
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: HA Dave on January 15, 2018, 10:26:07 PM
Well..... the window 10 core doesn't seem like it would fit my needs. As it appears to be designed more to run... or create an app to run (on a full
windows unit).

But, I may have found an X10 controlling software that will run on a RBP. I'd heard of it some time ago. I guess the windows version is no longer around but the Pi version has even been update (I think). Called Misterhouse (http://misterhouse.sourceforge.net/ (http://misterhouse.sourceforge.net/)).

Now... I need to figure how to "install" a program on a Pi. Everything I've seen or read makes it seem complex. Can I just download to the Pi unit?
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: Tuicemen on January 16, 2018, 06:34:34 AM
Windows core will run on a pi. it will not run on a PC.
There are actually several Linux HA softwares that will run on a pi some may be easier to use then others.
I'd look at HomeGenie as well, If I remember it had a nice interface. I know a few here use it so I'm sure they'll chime in with helpful advice.
 
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: HA Dave on January 16, 2018, 07:33:52 AM
Windows core will run on a pi. it will not run on a PC.

That's what I've read as well. But win10 core is designed to run "apps". I haven't found any actual app format [apps] for X10 HA. And I am not sure actual programs will work with core. It could be there is no difference between apps and programs... I don't really know.


There are actually several Linux HA softwares that will run on a pi some may be easier to use then others.
I'd look at HomeGenie as well, If I remember it had a nice interface. I know a few here use it so I'm sure they'll chime in with helpful advice.

Yeah.... I am looking at and reading as much as I can. As far as HomeGenie.... I have the latest Raspberry Pi 3... which runs the Raspbian OS. But this is what I found at the HomeGenie DL site:  Notes for installing on Raspberry Pi:

HomeGenie can be installed on Raspberry Pi following Linux instructions above, though it will only run on Soft-float Debian “wheezy” systems. It won't work properly on Raspbian “wheezy” nor any other hard float system due to a bug in Mono core (see http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=11634).

So... as I read it. I am out on my current Pi device. Although an older Pi unit would/should work.
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: HA Dave on January 16, 2018, 07:43:25 AM
The nice thing is..... I am learning a few things. Maybe not productive things... but still I am enjoying the learning process.

I find it frustrating that many "instructions" merely state open such folder and type "this" here... and then type that there....
But no explanation as to why. Or even what the typed entry instructs the program/device to do. I've yet to even learn how to add a program (like MisterHouse) to my RBP.  But... I am working on it.

I' am getting some email instructions, support and help from racerfern. So maybe... I'll get it figured out.

Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: petera on January 16, 2018, 09:29:52 AM
Windows core will run on a pi. it will not run on a PC.

That's what I've read as well. But win10 core is designed to run "apps". I haven't found any actual app format [apps] for X10 HA. And I am not sure actual programs will work with core. It could be there is no difference between apps and programs... I don't really know.


There are actually several Linux HA softwares that will run on a pi some may be easier to use then others.
I'd look at HomeGenie as well, If I remember it had a nice interface. I know a few here use it so I'm sure they'll chime in with helpful advice.

Yeah.... I am looking at and reading as much as I can. As far as HomeGenie.... I have the latest Raspberry Pi 3... which runs the Raspbian OS. But this is what I found at the HomeGenie DL site:  Notes for installing on Raspberry Pi:

HomeGenie can be installed on Raspberry Pi following Linux instructions above, though it will only run on Soft-float Debian “wheezy” systems. It won't work properly on Raspbian “wheezy” nor any other hard float system due to a bug in Mono core (see http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=11634).

So... as I read it. I am out on my current Pi device. Although an older Pi unit would/should work.

HA DAVE, that version of Raspbian Wheezy is two versions back and not a consideration if you use Raspbian Jessie or Raspbian Stretch.

Your NOOBS SD card should have the latest version of Raspbian installed. Just pop the SD card into the slot, connect up the peripherals, plug in the Raspberry Pi 3 and let the Raspbian OS install itself. Once you have performed this the next step will be to follow the steps on the previous link I sent you to install HomeGenie.

Believe me, there's nothing nerdy about the Raspberry Pi 3. You can become a nerd if you choose to but once the HA software (Homegenie) is installed you can get working on your x10 setup. Don't forget the Raspberry Pi has the option of adding its own camera which will add more usability to your setup.

Get Windows out of your head and start thinking Raspbian  :)% Theres life after Windows, believe me  >!
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: petera on January 16, 2018, 09:40:37 AM
Just an idea HA Dave. If someone is helping you at the moment that has Homegenie already installed, you could send them a blank 16gig SD card, they could take an image of their current setup, transfer that image to the blank SD card and return the card to you.

All you would have to do is pop that SD card into your own Raspberry Pi and you're good to go. No copy issues here as its all open source. This will take all the learning fun out of installing your system but at least you will have a plug'n'go system if that's what you're looking for.
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: racerfern on January 16, 2018, 09:47:02 AM
@petera - Thanks for chiming in. I too will be following this closely. I believe his goal is to have the pi control the CM15A so he can retire the laptop. But the only software that programs the CM15A is AHP which is windows based, obviously. HA Dave says he's getting help from me...not really, last time I typed a command line was in DR-DOS. :'

I tried HomeGenie on windows and it was painfully slow and difficult to wrap my head around. Is it easier/better on Pi?
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: petera on January 16, 2018, 11:36:41 AM
@petera - Thanks for chiming in. I too will be following this closely. I believe his goal is to have the pi control the CM15A so he can retire the laptop. But the only software that programs the CM15A is AHP which is windows based, obviously. HA Dave says he's getting help from me...not really, last time I typed a command line was in DR-DOS. :'

I tried HomeGenie on windows and it was painfully slow and difficult to wrap my head around. Is it easier/better on Pi?

Although Homegenie is in fact a Windows based program it's runs far better on the Raspberry Pi or in any other flavour of Linux.

I'm running the CM15 with x10 and the sky is the limit with scripts, events, timers macros. I'm based outside the US so for convenience I was thinking that someone more local to HA Dave could image a working system for him. If not we could organise a solution for him.

If you've typed a single DOS command in your day the terminal environment in Linux should not pose an issue. It's the generation who grew up in the GUI world that struggle the most.
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: racerfern on January 16, 2018, 12:13:39 PM
But are programming (sending macros to) the CM15A with homegenie? Or just running everything in homegenie? Is your CM15A plugged into the Pi or are you running AHP on a separate pc?
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: HA Dave on January 16, 2018, 02:48:11 PM
HA DAVE, that version of Raspbian Wheezy is two versions back ....Your NOOBS SD card should have the latest version of Raspbian installed. ....
Get Windows out of your head and start thinking Raspbian :)% Theres life after Windows, believe me  >!

That's great news petera. I just spent a couple hours trying to get Mister House to install and run on my RBP. No luck. But if you think Homegenie  will work... I'll give it a try tomorrow (or later tonight).

I am an old Microsoft guy.... but I've also worked a little bit with a bunch of other stuff. Including apple and android.... and even basic at one time. But the directions all seem to be worded like: Create a script file point the executable in the appropriate or desired folder. And I just have a hard time trying to imagine what the author expects me to do... or why. I can read HTML but never learned much DOS.
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: HA Dave on January 16, 2018, 03:00:17 PM
....... transfer that image to the blank SD card and return the card to you.

I'd like to try the windows core (to try AHP), as well as some of the Linux based programs like HomeGenie and/or MisterHouse. I've read about compiling the files on a memory card.... and then just slipping it in the RBP and letting NOOBS install everything.

If I could just see a image, a pic, nice sized .jpg of what such a file system should look like. I have a flashcard/memory slot built-in (as well as accessory units) that I could create the files on. I assume there is a format...

Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: Tuicemen on January 16, 2018, 03:39:32 PM
You mean an image of windows core desktop?
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: bkenobi on January 16, 2018, 05:07:21 PM
HG is actually run on Mono which is not Windows.  Mono is an open source implementation of .NET which was originally written for Windows.  Anything that has the Mono environment available can run any Mono code.  That makes it similar to Java in that it's a single language that's cross-platform compatible without any extra code.

I would say that HG was faster on my laptop than the RPi when I tried it a few years ago.  I stopped using the PC and only have it installed on an RPi now.  I just purchased a new RPi3 and will be upgrading it as people on the HG forum have indicated that the new hardware is much faster.  I personally have found that running off the RPi and connecting the free Android app even from home is very slow.  Once I get the new hardware up and running, I'll have a better idea of performance.

All that said, if you haven't picked a HA software yet, you should also consider Domoticz.  I looked at it initially and opted for HG (don't recall why).  It's a free HA software that is multi-system compatible and should work with the CM15A.  HG is open source, but only one developer was working on it.  That dev has stepped way back and no releases have been made in months and nothing is likely to be upgraded unless a user does it.  The software is fully functional for X10 and really doesn't need to be updated anyway, so this is not a huge issue for me.
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: petera on January 16, 2018, 05:10:29 PM
....... transfer that image to the blank SD card and return the card to you.

I'd like to try the windows core (to try AHP), as well as some of the Linux based programs like HomeGenie and/or MisterHouse. I've read about compiling the files on a memory card.... and then just slipping it in the RBP and letting NOOBS install everything.

If I could just see a image, a pic, nice sized .jpg of what such a file system should look like. I have a flashcard/memory slot built-in (as well as accessory units) that I could create the files on. I assume there is a format...

I think you mean a screenshot of the files on the Raspberry Pi Raspbian SD card image. Would that be it.
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: petera on January 16, 2018, 05:23:26 PM
....... transfer that image to the blank SD card and return the card to you.

I'd like to try the windows core (to try AHP), as well as some of the Linux based programs like HomeGenie and/or MisterHouse. I've read about compiling the files on a memory card.... and then just slipping it in the RBP and letting NOOBS install everything.

If I could just see a image, a pic, nice sized .jpg of what such a file system should look like. I have a flashcard/memory slot built-in (as well as accessory units) that I could create the files on. I assume there is a format...

I think you mean a screenshot of the files on the Raspberry Pi Raspbian SD card image. Would that be it.

This is a screenshot of the Raspberry Pi Raspbian files on the SD card when viewed on an SD card reader in Windows. Not really of much use to you in a Windows machine but it will give you an idea what is on the SD card.
http://www.google.ie/search?q=screenshot+of+files+on+a+raspbian+sd+card&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari#imgrc=hZGttNcoQA6-AM:&spf=1516144417862

I think I remember seeing Bkenobi on the old HomeGenie forum. I imagine he may be closer in location to you so maybe he may be of help here. If you had an image made of a basic working x10 Homegenie put on an SD card it really would save you a lot of time.
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: HA Dave on January 16, 2018, 06:42:06 PM
The whole thing is very frustrating. It reminds me of the old days before window 95.

I tried to DL/install HomeGenie.... but the system warned it was a dangerous software... required password to install (which I hadn't changed). I changed the password. Now the system doesn't remember either the default or the new password.

I may need to get a new loaded card with noobs (which I think may offer an option to install window10 core). Reformat my original card... and copy the new one after I install raspbian all over again.
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: racerfern on January 16, 2018, 06:50:30 PM
@HA Dave - check your email before you jump off the bridge you're on. -:)
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: petera on January 16, 2018, 07:25:26 PM
But are programming (sending macros to) the CM15A with homegenie? Or just running everything in homegenie? Is your CM15A plugged into the Pi or are you running AHP on a separate pc?

Sorry didn't see your post earlier.

The CM15 is plugged directly into the USB port on the Raspberry Pi. After installing the Raspbian Operating System on the Raspberry Pi you then download the Homegenie software from the link I supplied earlier.

Once the software is installed, you access the program from a browser either on your Raspberrry Pi locally or any other device that can load a browser. All your macros,scripting, timers and events can be configured and accessed from this browser page.

It really is that easy. All the work you need to do at the command line can be cut and pasted from the various sites that supply installation instructions. Very little chance of getting the typing/syntax wrong.

The NOOBS SD Card that HA Dave received had the operating system installed already. All that is required is to download the Homegenie software.

Remember AHP is Windows software that has its own proprietary x10 drivers. Nothing to do with Homegenie which uses completely different drivers.
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: petera on January 16, 2018, 07:33:49 PM
Could I suggest starting a new post covering this subject. Those in the "know" can step you slowly through the installation and configuration process. I'm no Linux expert but followed very clear steps I found on other sites to get Homegenie up and running. Once it's running it will all make sense to you.

I haven't used Homegenie in quite a while so as a test today I started with a blank SD card and had Homegenie running x10 in just over 2 hours.
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: HA Dave on January 16, 2018, 09:43:58 PM
@HA Dave - check your email before you jump off the bridge you're on. -:)

Thanks for emailing me the obvious and simple solution.... that I completely missed. Holding shift at startup gave me an opportunity to recover/rebuilt again... completely new from NOOBS. This time I added some other software OS's including Windows 10 core. (Woo Hoo)

Could I suggest starting a new post covering this subject. Those in the "know" can step you slowly through the installation and configuration process. .....

Great idea!
I had started this thread with hoping to get forum members to share their winter projects.... and/or inspire others to begin projects they've been thinking about. I know I was inspired. But then.... I am easily inspired to start a project.

I am moving my Raspberry Pi conversations HERE.
(http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=29832.msg170870#msg170870) But this is still a good thread to continue thought ideas and actual new winter HA projects.

I haven't used Homegenie in quite a while so as a test today I started with a blank SD card and had Homegenie running x10 in just over 2 hours.

That is so cool. Thanks for taking the time. Really... I really appreciate that! Did you just install it on Raspberry pi 3/raspbian? Or on the windows 10 core? Other?

Homegenie is nice... if I remember what I've heard. I don't know anything about it's ability (or not) to pair with Alexa.... but it could replace a PC.

Time to get out a notebook and sort through any and every opportunity available now..... while taking good notes. I need a good plan(s).
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: petera on January 17, 2018, 06:54:31 PM
@HA Dave - check your email before you jump off the bridge you're on. -:)

Thanks for emailing me the obvious and simple solution.... that I completely missed. Holding shift at startup gave me an opportunity to recover/rebuilt again... completely new from NOOBS. This time I added some other software OS's including Windows 10 core. (Woo Hoo)

Could I suggest starting a new post covering this subject. Those in the "know" can step you slowly through the installation and configuration process. .....

Great idea!
I had started this thread with hoping to get forum members to share their winter projects.... and/or inspire others to begin projects they've been thinking about. I know I was inspired. But then.... I am easily inspired to start a project.

I am moving my Raspberry Pi conversations HERE.
(http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=29832.msg170870#msg170870) But this is still a good thread to continue thought ideas and actual new winter HA projects.

I haven't used Homegenie in quite a while so as a test today I started with a blank SD card and had Homegenie running x10 in just over 2 hours.

That is so cool. Thanks for taking the time. Really... I really appreciate that! Did you just install it on Raspberry pi 3/raspbian? Or on the windows 10 core? Other?

Homegenie is nice... if I remember what I've heard. I don't know anything about it's ability (or not) to pair with Alexa.... but it could replace a PC.

Time to get out a notebook and sort through any and every opportunity available now..... while taking good notes. I need a good plan(s).

No HA Dave it was just Raspbian. Purely a Linux man these days. Its running the CM11 or the CM15 now. All the timers, scripts (macros to you) and schedules you could ever want. Just plugged in a couple of cheap IP cameras and they are working away too. The options are endless and controlled from the home and away from the home too.

You have the general idea here now. petec has just chirped in and no better man to get you on your way. He is Stateside so a very good man to have on board to help.

We will get this system up and running if you promise not to mention Windows again  :)%

Btw you can set up Alexa on the same Raspberry Pi too so it will cover all your needs here
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: HA Dave on January 17, 2018, 07:13:44 PM
..... We will get this system up and running if you promise not to mention Windows again  :)%
Btw you can set up Alexa on the same Raspberry Pi too so it will cover all your needs here

I am just beginning to understand how cool this little device is!
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: racerfern on January 18, 2018, 06:04:40 AM
@petera - Almost off topic but it will determine which way I move my entire HA system. I have the same new RPi3 as HA Dave. Can I run Homeseer 3 standard on it without plug-in limitations? Right now I have HS3 standard on a windows mini PC, but I would like to move the entire operation to the RPi3.

Therefore the RPi3 would have a CM15A, a zigbee addon card, the z-net via RJ45, RFXCOM as hardware. The software would be HS3 as the overall control software with all the necessary plugins to run the system. However, some people have said that HS3 for raspberry has the same 5 plug-in restriction as it does for the Zeetroller S2. I can't seem to get consistent answers.
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: HA Dave on January 18, 2018, 11:40:52 AM
Could I suggest starting a new post covering this subject. Those in the "know" can step you slowly through the installation and configuration process. I'm no Linux expert but followed very clear steps I found on other sites to get Homegenie up and running. Once it's running it will all make sense to you.

I haven't used Homegenie in quite a while so as a test today I started with a blank SD card and had Homegenie running x10 in just over 2 hours.

I searched though the thread.... wondering from where you downloaded the Homegenie install. I know most sites just use a re-direct back to the vendors DL site. But I think other also mirror. Could you give me the link of the Site you used to get Homegenie..... Or would http://www.homegenie.it/ (http://www.homegenie.it/) be OK?
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: racerfern on January 18, 2018, 03:05:35 PM
homegenie.it works. Then in the upper right hand corner, click Get Started.

Click download, then click the Linux.deb area.
Further down there are install instructions that if it were me, I would follow like lemmings into the sea. @petera will have to help on that part
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: Tuicemen on January 18, 2018, 05:40:06 PM
HA Dave, Since I know you have a RM Broadlink you may wish to look at something that works with HA-Bridge the next build is said to have support for it.  ;) many use it on a PI.
 >!
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: HA Dave on January 18, 2018, 08:08:31 PM
HA Dave, Since I know you have a RM Broadlink you may wish to look at something that works with HA-Bridge the next build is said to have support for it.  ;) many use it on a PI.

I setup the RM Broadlink directly (and only) through it's own app, and Alexa skill. It works great. I have a "goodnight" "routine" (using the Alexa-Amazon app) that shuts off all normal lights, turns off my TV, Cable Box, easy chair (it has an electric footrest), and runs a macro that turns ON a small light (for easy navigation to the bedroom) and then 3 minutes later... shuts it off too.

I have a similar yet different "rise and shine" morning thing..... that isn't used as much as the night time routine. And I also say: Mute television" from time-to-time. But for normal TV watching I used a normal Harmony programmed remote.

What really want is to get voice alerts, warnings, announcements, etc. along with a set of macros-like actions that run on a smart computer-like device.
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: bkenobi on January 19, 2018, 10:27:22 AM
I wrote a guide for Jesse that may be out of date now.  It is what I use when I build a HG SD image.  I'm going to have to set up a new image for my RPi3 that arrived yesterday, so I will document the process.  I'm pretty sure I'll have to change the directions since my email stopped working recently (most likely just need to do an update for RPi to get updated certificates).

The HG forum died last year, so if you need HG related questions answered it would be best to go to a fan forum set up to replace it:
homegenie.club (http://homegenie.club)

That forum has a snapshot of the forum before it went offline, so it has all the help that was provided archived.
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: dhouston on January 19, 2018, 10:45:10 AM
The HG forum died last year, so if you need HG related questions answered it would be best to go to a fan forum set up to replace it:
homegenie.club (http://homegenie.club)

When I click on your URL, McAfee blocks it, reporting "Malicious Sites, Spam URLs".
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: racerfern on January 19, 2018, 01:17:12 PM
homegenie.club opens fine for me, then I don't use McAfee. Seems like a good forum.
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: bkenobi on January 19, 2018, 03:29:09 PM
It triggers McAfee on my work PC but it doesn't on my home PC or phone.  The site is fine so no worries (well, I haven't seen any issues, but I'm not a security expert).
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: petera on January 19, 2018, 04:17:54 PM
Could I suggest starting a new post covering this subject. Those in the "know" can step you slowly through the installation and configuration process. I'm no Linux expert but followed very clear steps I found on other sites to get Homegenie up and running. Once it's running it will all make sense to you.

I haven't used Homegenie in quite a while so as a test today I started with a blank SD card and had Homegenie running x10 in just over 2 hours.

I searched though the thread.... wondering from where you downloaded the Homegenie install. I know most sites just use a re-direct back to the vendors DL site. But I think other also mirror. Could you give me the link of the Site you used to get Homegenie..... Or would http://www.homegenie.it/ (http://www.homegenie.it/) be OK?

Just click on this link and move down to the end of the page. You will see documentation and download. Download whatever version you require http://www.homegenie.it/
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: petera on January 19, 2018, 04:24:30 PM
I wrote a guide for Jesse that may be out of date now.  It is what I use when I build a HG SD image.  I'm going to have to set up a new image for my RPi3 that arrived yesterday, so I will document the process.  I'm pretty sure I'll have to change the directions since my email stopped working recently (most likely just need to do an update for RPi to get updated certificates).

The HG forum died last year, so if you need HG related questions answered it would be best to go to a fan forum set up to replace it:
homegenie.club (http://homegenie.club)

That forum has a snapshot of the forum before it went offline, so it has all the help that was provided archived.

Bkenobi have HG 526 working on Stretch now. Email working fine. Only spun it a couple of days ago. I've been away from HG for some time but I've noted some users have taken the baton and started to work on it again. I'll come back on board and see what happens. I know you've done a fair bit of work on the product from your posts on the previous forum. Such a shame it slipped away. Anyway hope springs eternal :)%
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: HA Dave on January 19, 2018, 04:27:30 PM
Just click on this link and move down to the end of the page. You will see documentation and download. Download whatever version you require http://www.homegenie.it/

The download gets stuck loading... I've tried a few times but this is as far as it gets then just hangs there.

Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: dave w on January 19, 2018, 04:36:45 PM
I think a round of Auld Lang Syne might be in order here.  Another year where I didn’t convert to z wave. 
I don’t have a dog either.  Mother nature recently required that I walk the snow thrower.  Does that count?
Maybe you won't have to. X10 is looking up!
Yes
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: petera on January 19, 2018, 05:24:29 PM
Just click on this link and move down to the end of the page. You will see documentation and download. Download whatever version you require http://www.homegenie.it/

The download gets stuck loading... I've tried a few times but this is as far as it gets then just hangs there.

I assume you're downloading the Windows version. I've never used it on Windows. Have you tried setting up the Raspberry Pi on Raspbian yet. Bkenobi just posted that he did a full write up instruction for Raspbian. Are you willing to try it. Don't be afraid. It won't bite. I promise -:)
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: petera on January 19, 2018, 05:42:01 PM
@petera - Almost off topic but it will determine which way I move my entire HA system. I have the same new RPi3 as HA Dave. Can I run Homeseer 3 standard on it without plug-in limitations? Right now I have HS3 standard on a windows mini PC, but I would like to move the entire operation to the RPi3.

Therefore the RPi3 would have a CM15A, a zigbee addon card, the z-net via RJ45, RFXCOM as hardware. The software would be HS3 as the overall control software with all the necessary plugins to run the system. However, some people have said that HS3 for raspberry has the same 5 plug-in restriction as it does for the Zeetroller S2. I can't seem to get consistent answers.

HS3 Standard as far as I know is the same as HS3 Pro except it includes no plugins at purchase. No plugin limitation. You buy the HS3 plugins separately. The HS3 Pi version has the 5 plugin limitation which is the same version that you will find on the Hometroller ZeeS2.

Hope that clears things up for you. And now back on topic  :)%

Could you get HA Dave up to speed on Raspbian for the Pi. Once he has the OS up and running its just a matter of a few cut and paste commands into a Terminal session on the PC and the Pi and he will have HomeGenie up and running. He could do it on the Pi but why bother hooking up a load of peripherals unnecessarily.

When he has that sorted his next lesson is a crash course in SSH using PuTTY. Once he cracks that he'll never look back and have one of the most reliable and versatile x10 utilities he's ever had  :)%

Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: racerfern on January 19, 2018, 06:25:14 PM
Quote
Could you

HA! That's like asking me what C♯ is and I answer the same as D♭. I am totally clueless when it comes to anything Linux, and at my age it will probably stay that way for quite awhile.  :(

I'm stumbling through this hand in hand with HA Dave. We're like two of the three characters in the Wizard of Oz stumbling down the road looking for a leader. Hey that's you!

I won't even delve into my struggles extracting a tar file to a specified directory, what nano is or the difference between sudo and sudo su (ok, I know this one).

Get my point?

As an aside, I got homeseer to run on the Pi3 but have yet to get homegenie to work. But I will!!!!

Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: HA Dave on January 19, 2018, 08:18:49 PM
..... I got homeseer to run on the Pi3 ...

Congratulations! I spend most of the day playing with grandkids.

But... I did unplug my HA laptop. It's been a decade since the home hasn't to me. But now I feel like I might have a new re-starting point.

But then again.... I may have to delete macros and reassign some house codes too. I've often wondered... if I was to rebuild my setup... what it would be/look/behave like. But it always seem a little drastic to gain some small improvement... if any. But I am sure if don't undo a lot of what I have now... I'll never be able to make it all that much better by tinkering around the edges.

 
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: HA Dave on January 19, 2018, 08:43:29 PM
The download gets stuck loading... I've tried a few times but this is as far as it gets then just hangs there.

I assume you're downloading the Windows version. I've never used it on Windows. Have you tried setting up the Raspberry Pi on Raspbian yet. Bkenobi just posted that he did a full write up instruction for Raspbian. Are you willing to try it. Don't be afraid. It won't bite. I promise -:)

No.... I am looking at running the house on Raspberry Pi. I want the new Raspberry Pi 3 I bought to run homegenie (or something comparable) My failures have all been trying to get software on the new Pi unit. I did do a [shift] do over and selected the Microsoft core as one of the OS's but haven't done anything with it.
,
What I'd like... or what I started out to attain... is to be able to run macros on a running version of Homegenie (or whatever) running on Raspbian on a Pi unit, with audio announcements.

But I am going to try to keep an open mind about the possibilities. I don't want to get stuck with trying to recreate an old paradigm of HA from years past. I've loved the startrek/ironman like talking house for many years... but maybe there is something better.   
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: bkenobi on January 19, 2018, 10:35:57 PM
I found the instructions I wrote for Jessie last March.  I can't say that they will work perfectly on a RPi3 nor can I say that something hasn't changed slightly in the last 10 months.  I'm going to have to install things again on a new card, so I'll update the details at that time.  I'll either get to it this weekend, or it won't be until early February.
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: petera on January 20, 2018, 06:56:21 AM
The download gets stuck loading... I've tried a few times but this is as far as it gets then just hangs there.

I assume you're downloading the Windows version. I've never used it on Windows. Have you tried setting up the Raspberry Pi on Raspbian yet. Bkenobi just posted that he did a full write up instruction for Raspbian. Are you willing to try it. Don't be afraid. It won't bite. I promise -:)

No.... I am looking at running the house on Raspberry Pi. I want the new Raspberry Pi 3 I bought to run homegenie (or something comparable) My failures have all been trying to get software on the new Pi unit. I did do a [shift] do over and selected the Microsoft core as one of the OS's but haven't done anything with it.
,
What I'd like... or what I started out to attain... is to be able to run macros on a running version of Homegenie (or whatever) running on Raspbian on a Pi unit, with audio announcements.

But I am going to try to keep an open mind about the possibilities. I don't want to get stuck with trying to recreate an old paradigm of HA from years past. I've loved the startrek/ironman like talking house for many years... but maybe there is something better.

HA Dave have a look look through this link. It's the old Homegenie forum. It will give you a gereral feeling of how homegenie works and how it is installed. There's no search facility available as its archived but you can click on any post and read how users progressed.

http://old.homegenie.club:8080/www.homegenie.it/forum/index.html

As soon as you feel ready to install HomeGenie you could make a new post on the subject and we can step you through it line by line. >!
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: racerfern on January 20, 2018, 08:13:43 AM
I'm stumbling through the text file you uploaded. I've previously done some of this so I'm starting at the download. Note the newer version.

https://sourceforge.net/projects/homegenie/files/homegenie-beta_1.1.r525_all.deb
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: HA Dave on January 20, 2018, 09:01:12 AM
I found the instructions I wrote for Jessie last March.  I can't say that they will work perfectly on a RPi3 nor can I say that something hasn't changed slightly in the last 10 months.  I'm going to have to install things again on a new card, so I'll update the details at that time.

Wow. That's an impressive set of instructions on the text file. Just the terminology (and likely code editing).... are above my current skill set. I am diffidently going to need classes or instruction for this. Or maybe I could sent you two new memory cards and you could mail me one back that is ready to run?
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: petera on January 20, 2018, 12:22:37 PM
I found the instructions I wrote for Jessie last March.  I can't say that they will work perfectly on a RPi3 nor can I say that something hasn't changed slightly in the last 10 months.  I'm going to have to install things again on a new card, so I'll update the details at that time.

Wow. That's an impressive set of instructions on the text file. Just the terminology (and likely code editing).... are above my current skill set. I am diffidently going to need classes or instruction for this. Or maybe I could sent you two new memory cards and you could mail me one back that is ready to run?

I'd love to do that HA Dave but I'm located in Ireland and I'm not sure how reliable the postage would be. Petec, another member here is located a little closer to your home and I'm sure with a little "persuasion" he could do this a little easier for you. He's a very obliging individual and again an "old timer" when it comes to X10.

What he could possibly do is create an SSH session into your Raspberry Pi and do this remotely for you. He has done this quite successfully for a few others on the Homeseer forum. I could do this but we have to be mindful of the time difference between us.

Just let me know what you would like to do and we could organise this for you.
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: HA Dave on January 20, 2018, 03:51:57 PM
....I'd love to do that HA Dave but I'm located in Ireland ......

You are really nice, Helpful person!

What he could possibly do is create an SSH session into your Raspberry Pi and do this remotely for you. He has done this quite successfully for a few others on the Homeseer forum. I could do this but we have to be mindful of the time difference between us.

Just let me know what you would like to do and we could organise this for you.

How would I set up the SSH? I enable that in preferences. But I think I'd have to assign a port too. Let me think. My individual IP address, + the Pi's extension (like, 192.168.1.116) + the port. How do I assign a port or is that required? I'd have to make an acceptation at the router.....   

Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: petera on January 20, 2018, 09:57:24 PM
....I'd love to do that HA Dave but I'm located in Ireland ......

You are really nice, Helpful person!

What he could possibly do is create an SSH session into your Raspberry Pi and do this remotely for you. He has done this quite successfully for a few others on the Homeseer forum. I could do this but we have to be mindful of the time difference between us.

Just let me know what you would like to do and we could organise this for you.

How would I set up the SSH? I enable that in preferences. But I think I'd have to assign a port too. Let me think. My individual IP address, + the Pi's extension (like, 192.168.1.116) + the port. How do I assign a port or is that required? I'd have to make an acceptation at the router.....   

Yes you port forward for the address assigned to your Raspberry Pi on your via your LAN via yiur router and your external IP address plus whatever port is opened foe remote connection. The default port is 80 if you do not define one so on your router set port forwarding 192.168.1.116 and start port 8081 end port 8081. Say if your external ip address is 44.2.134.107 if someone wanted to SSH into your Pi it would be 44.2.134.107:8081

I assume you know how to check your external ip address. Just google what is my ip address
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: bkenobi on January 22, 2018, 09:08:42 AM
The instructions were intended to be a literal "press x, press y, type z, ..."

I figured they would actually be easier to follow since they explicitly stated every character that needed typing.  If you SSH into the box from a windows machine (which is how I set my RPi up), you can actually have the text file open next to the terminal window and copy/paste over.  It's really, REALLY easy.  On my slow DSL 1.5MB connection the hardest part is waiting for all the updates to finish.  If you have a real broadband connection, it should only take a few minutes.  For me, it's hours.

If there are any specific questions, I can try to answer them though I haven't used the instructions for almost a year.  Like I said, I'm going to start from scratch on my RPi3 install, so I'll modify the instructions as necessary.  I didn't get a chance over the weekend and now it's going to be early February before I get to it.
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: petera on January 22, 2018, 09:31:50 AM
The instructions were intended to be a literal "press x, press y, type z, ..."

I figured they would actually be easier to follow since they explicitly stated every character that needed typing.  If you SSH into the box from a windows machine (which is how I set my RPi up), you can actually have the text file open next to the terminal window and copy/paste over.  It's really, REALLY easy.  On my slow DSL 1.5MB connection the hardest part is waiting for all the updates to finish.  If you have a real broadband connection, it should only take a few minutes.  For me, it's hours.

If there are any specific questions, I can try to answer them though I haven't used the instructions for almost a year.  Like I said, I'm going to start from scratch on my RPi3 install, so I'll modify the instructions as necessary.  I didn't get a chance over the weekend and now it's going to be early February before I get to it.

I imagine at 1.5MB connection you could go on a road trip for the weekend, return and it would still be updating. In fact if you started now it would probably be early February before you could reboot the system. B:(  I reckon I'm spoiled at 360MB connection and I tend to forget how long it takes after issuing the dreaded sudo apt-get upgrade command.

Your original instructions are clear and concise with the exception that Raspbian Stretch is the defacto Raspbian download image and it's important to get Mono 5.4 to ensure you avoid security certificates issues, typically the send email notifications issues.

A lot of newcomers to the Raspberry Pi running Raspbian are terrified at the sight of a Terminal session. With all the cut and paste instructions out there it's virtually impossible to make a mistake. The main thing is to find the correctly typed instructions as one spelling error or the use of a quotation mark front and back of the command sends the system into a spin.

I avoid using quotation marks when I'm supplying command instructions to users so they can do a direct copy paste without editing the command.
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: bkenobi on January 22, 2018, 07:53:48 PM
If you wanted to take the time to update the instructions for Stretch and the RPi3, I'd definitely give them a test drive.  My instructions were compiled from scouring various threads on different forums and trial/error.  I'd assume they are still pretty close, but anything you know is wrong would be appreciated to point out.   >!
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: HA Dave on January 24, 2018, 10:36:43 PM
After reviewing several sample reads of Kindle books I download the:  Raspberry Pi 3 beginner to pro... by Timothy Short

I am hoping it fills in enough of the "holes" in my Pi/Linux knowledge base I can at least decide where to go next. These little devices have been calling to me for too darn long. I need to learn how to make them work.

A perfect waste of time in a cold Midwestern winter.
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: HA Dave on January 29, 2018, 12:40:28 PM
Headway with my Pi education moves slowly. I did do some reading... and have learned a lot. Like learning a foreign language.... the Linux roots of Raspbian use different terms for actions similar to what I already know. So... I am still translating in my mind.

Meanwhile...... I am exploring the abilities of what I already own (and use). My Homeseer HS3 unit (which is a Pi) can already do much if not everything I could want to do. Tring to write events (AKA Macros) to replace what I had running in a separate CM15A.

Also adding some lighting protection in areas where I'd neglected that. I also removed ONE of the TWO CM15A's I was using. Added more functionality to my MyQ Garage door app.... to get more notices. All-in-All.... some genuinely serious frustration as I try to fill my head with new stuff while repeatedly failing and making progress only in millimeters (or is that Liters?!?).

I can't think of a better way to waste a winter.
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: petera on January 29, 2018, 04:51:45 PM
Most of the Raspberry Pi stuff is cut and paste. Once you download a program like PuTTY a quick read up on it and you will be able to control your Raspberry Pi from your Windows machine. In fact it will feel like you are back in the old IBM PC days working from the command line in DOS. The Raspberry Pi won't need a screen, a keyboard or a mouse.

How are you accessing your Homeseer HS3 unit at the moment. Are you accessing it from your Windows system or do you have a screen, keyboard and mouse attached to it. If you could tell us what you know we can tell you what you need to know in easy steps. It's only February now. Still plenty of nasty weather left to get learning all that is Raspberry Pi. Forget about Linux, think about Pi. It's just another operating system. Remember directories in Windows are folders in Linux. Both Windows and Linux have a root directory.
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: HA Dave on January 29, 2018, 07:56:05 PM
...... it will feel like you are back in the old IBM PC days working from the command line in DOS.

I missed most of that. A divorce had me off-line (sort to speak) between writing my own programs in basic on my Vic-20.... and then windows 3* on a Zenith 100 (computer) at work. I've been retired a decade.... so my skills are dusty. But I was a network admin (WINDOWS ONLY). I have zero useful programing skills.

How are you accessing your Homeseer HS3 unit at the moment. Are you accessing it from your Windows system .....

I access Homeseer using SSH through a recent windows 10 laptop. I know the HS3 is a Pi and I am happy controlling it via my laptop... from the comfort of my recliner. I have been running the HS3 for several months... and was tickled I could control my X10 via Amazons Alexa using the little Pi device. But.... I hadn't done anything more than add X10 devices to it so I could control them by voice.

But until just the other day.... My old Home Automation (laptop) PC running AHP and a voice software on XP... using a CM15A controlled my setup.

I had whole house Voice announcements (a great Kate 16 bit voice). But... it was outdated. It was a disaster just waiting to happen. 

Now.....Homeseer is awesome. But the new WM100 X10 WiFi module is taking over ALL my X10 timers now. Homeseer "events" will replace my X10 macro. The "creepy" Pi voice (I did get it to speak on HS)... may or may not be useable. I think I have a better idea to record wav or Mp3 files for playback. I "think" I can pair the voice alerts to play on the Amazon/echo devices. If not.... I already have the old (outdated) wired speaker system (I'd like to move away from).

Now... what I'd like to do with the Raspberry Pi 3 is setup a completely different HA setup that could replace any and all the other systems. I was hoping I could do that with HomeGenie. And I still think I can. But again... as an alternative I am accessing the Raspberry Pi 3 via wireless keyboard and mouse... with it displayed on my Man Cave 46" TV. This is the way I do most things. A system.... and a complete back-up system.

I know a lot of people (many kids) use the Pi to learn programing... and If i can get a bit of a feel for that... all the better.
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: petera on January 30, 2018, 01:22:54 PM
Well you have the hard part setup. You know how to access your HS3 unit from the Terminal on your PC. This means you can access your Raspberry Pi the same way. Just take your time a little by little you'll get there.

I have a similar unit to your wifi module, the TIP10RF. It connects via Ethernet to the router and operates both RF and PLC. Has its own app for Android and iOS and works well. The thing I like about HomeGenie is all the other HA you can control from one application.

Good luck with your tinkering and let us know how you get on.
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: HA Dave on January 30, 2018, 03:18:34 PM
... Good luck with your tinkering and let us know how you get on.

I really appreciate all you help and concern. I know I am slow.... but I have more in process than I can easily handle. I think I'll get there. I really thought I was going to have a huge amount of available time when I started this thread.... but it all piled up at once. Then... I couldn't see an easy way to convert away from my old laptop running a CM15A.... so I just shut it down, and pulled it off line. Now... my set-up is somewhat fractional.

I did find time to read a book on Pi. And I'll be back to that. I think Homegenie might be a great option.
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: HA Dave on February 10, 2018, 08:05:27 AM
What an awesome Home Automation Season this has been!

I've made several attempts at modernization. Most... were massive failures! Leaving me with a shrinking automation setup... with lost abilities. Shutting down my HA PC (with wired voice announcements) and it's dedicated CM15A... was at best... a risk. As I tried to further integrate a Homeseer controller. I've spend weeks trouble shooting a problem that had apparently been latently at the edge of my X10 automation all along..... with trouble/noise at the high end of unit numbers on at least two house codes. 

Meanwhile... I gave-in to years of curiosity... and bought a Raspberry Pi 3. Hoping I could also exploit this electric-stingy abilities to improve my HA. As a years long Microsoft guy..... the Pi made me feel stupid. But... I am much more comfortable with the Pi now. I've done a bit of reading, experimenting, and playing with it.

The sunshine of this past month... has all been around X10's new WM100 (https://www.x10.com/wm100.html). Flawless in setup and exactly as promised. A great X10 HUB-like device that only needs a Alexa "skill" to bring thousands of X10 users into voice controlled automation. 

But all the effort, failures, frustration, and hours spent.... has quickly wasted most of a moth of crappy winter weather that otherwise would have only crept by. I love this HA... for so many reasons! 
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: bkenobi on February 12, 2018, 04:52:08 AM
In case you have put the RPi/HG project on the back burner due to difficulties getting it running, I wanted to provide some updates on my experience.  I'm currently in the process of writing an updated guide and hopefully either a script and/or preconfigured SD card image to help new users.  I had some issues getting things running initially with my RPi3, but it appears to be working correctly now.
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: HA Dave on February 12, 2018, 06:53:06 AM
...... I wanted to provide some updates on my experience.  I'm currently in the process of writing an updated guide and hopefully either a script and/or preconfigured SD card image to help new users.  I had some issues getting things running initially with my RPi3, but it appears to be working correctly now.

What a great idea! Although I've had plenty of "irons in the fire" I am still plowing forward. I even found time to get through a stomach virus.... and attend the birthday party of the two year old (granddaughter) that gave it to me. 

I bought (and read) a (digital) book on Raspberry Pi 3. Then I bought a 2nd memory card to experiment with and did the basic NOOBS install. I now... at least have a (beginners) working knowledge of Raspbian.

And I now have my Homeseer Hometroller.... which is also a Pi... more fully up and running. I have shut-down the HA laptop and only using one CM15A as/for a plug-in for the HS. I've also taken down my amplified, hardwired, speaker system (hoping to use Bluetooth to my Echo devices). I have even re-assigned new H/U codes and I have made a effort to completely re-imagine my entire setup. This is a MAJOR reconfiguration for me.

Meanwhile... I have also been using and testing X10's new WiFi WM100. Fortunately... the WM100 roll-out has been near flawless. With only a few minor bugs of no real consequence (IMHO).

So... I am still in and ready to try/test/use any download, HG image, or set of directions, you come up with. I'll try PMing you my email address to make it easier to contact me.

This past 4-5 weeks has been one of the pleasant Home Automation Season I've had. Very busy, and productive. A lot of fun. Yet even so... with a little nostalgic sadness. I even miss the idea of no AHP... and the demise of the Kate 16 bit voice which has been such a part of my home here for many years.
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: toasterking on June 10, 2018, 12:55:56 PM
Superaccurate GPS Chips Coming to Smartphones in 2018 (https://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/semiconductors/design/superaccurate-gps-chips-coming-to-smartphones-in-2018)
Broadcom has a GPS sensor out that supposedly reports its location with an accuracy of 30 cm (11.8 inches).  With virtually everyone carrying smartphones now, I ought to be able to leverage this tech, at least for the house's typical occupants, to solve all of the above problems with very little effort and expense.
BTW, some cursory investigation reveals that should I have access to an early Android device this year with the new BCM47755 chip, I should be able to use Tasker to do some experimenting without actually writing any code. [...] The script can capture the current GPS location and send it to my web server via HTTPS POST.  [...]

It's happening!  The new Xiaomi Mi 8 (http://gpsworld.com/dual-frequency-gnss-smartphone-hits-the-market/) is out in China, has the BCM47755, and runs Android!  Any day now! *fingers crossed*  :)%
Title: Re: Tis the season... Home Automation Season. New ideas?
Post by: HA Dave on June 10, 2018, 01:02:38 PM
….It's happening!  The new Xiaomi Mi 8 (http://gpsworld.com/dual-frequency-gnss-smartphone-hits-the-market/) is out in China, has the BCM47755, and runs Android!  Any day now! *fingers crossed*  :)%

This is a new golden age for Home Automation.