X10 Community Forum

X10 WIFI => Wish list => WM Pro => Topic started by: Knightrider on January 17, 2018, 07:39:59 AM

Title: RF capabilities
Post by: Knightrider on January 17, 2018, 07:39:59 AM
We really need a full functionality interface to completely replace the CM15. The WM100 could be the one. It needs to receive and send RF, maybe including the security codes.
Title: Re: RF capabilities
Post by: HA Dave on January 17, 2018, 07:43:39 AM
We really need a full functionality interface to completely renovated place the CM15. The WM100 could be the one.

I agree. So much is happening in the HA world right now. I am just plain giddy about the new interface (and everything else) right now.
Title: Re: RF capabilities
Post by: Tuicemen on January 17, 2018, 07:49:17 AM
please post as a poll in wishlist section!
Title: Re: RF capabilities
Post by: Knightrider on January 17, 2018, 09:42:39 AM
please post as a poll in wishlist section!

Done
Title: Re: RF capabilities
Post by: Tuicemen on January 17, 2018, 09:46:36 AM
Voted.
This will most likely be added but will become a new module as it requires a hardware rebuild
I suspect with enough interest we'll see a WM100 Pro come out of this the app would only require a few small adds to make it compatible with the new modules when/if it materializes.
Title: Re: RF capabilities
Post by: Knightrider on January 17, 2018, 09:49:37 AM
Guess I forgot to vote.
Title: Re: RF capabilities
Post by: Tuicemen on January 17, 2018, 09:53:46 AM
 rofl Been there!
I expect RF to be a very popular request without it your limited to seeing things triggered via RF that has no PLC signal.
This would allow you to arm/dissarm your X10 security system via the phone which I can see as a very popular feature.
Title: Re: RF capabilities
Post by: lviper on January 17, 2018, 09:55:10 AM
.....This would allow you to arm/dissarm your X10 security system via the phone which I can see as a very popular feature.

Heck Yeah!
Title: Re: RF capabilities
Post by: Tuicemen on January 17, 2018, 10:02:46 AM
The RF code base is so much more extensive then the PLC one adding the RF option expands the use of the WM100 to areas not imagined by the manufacture or the app Developer.
This would allow many to get out some moth balled devices.
Users need to be reminded to vote in this section for all topics!
Topics with the highest input will get implemented first.
Remember there is no right or wrong vote!
Title: Re: RF capabilities
Post by: dhouston on January 17, 2018, 10:13:14 AM
This will most likely be added but will become a new module as it requires a hardware rebuild
What MCU does the WM100 use? The ESP8266 & ESP32 both have NEC IR built in. It's child's play to convert this to support X10 RF.
Title: Re: RF capabilities
Post by: Tuicemen on January 17, 2018, 10:15:27 AM
That is a good question!
Maybe the WM100 will only need a firmware update.
I'll try to find out what MCU it uses.
Title: Re: RF capabilities
Post by: HA Dave on January 17, 2018, 10:31:38 AM
I voted other "other"... because I just don't know. RF is nice for use with a palmpad. But realistically... a palmpad is 16 codes. A single TM751 enables an entire palmpad of codes.... and maybe most users entire setup. And RF has so many assorted problems... at least a transceiver can be moved around. But most people would probably rather use a table or phone. Or most likely, Alexa. 
Title: Re: RF capabilities
Post by: Tuicemen on January 17, 2018, 10:42:09 AM
I think your looking at the smaller picture.
The Icon remotes could send RF which in most cases (over 50%) only the Cm15  or Cm19 could see ( or the particular device)
over half the RF codes have no PLC equivalent.
Many older X10 hand held remotes could send vast number of RF codes as well but they were limited to the house code they were set to.

In most cases I wouldn't use the WM100 to transmit RF but I would most definitely use it for seeing RF activity.
The ability of RF would expand future macro options.
Title: Re: RF capabilities
Post by: HA Dave on January 17, 2018, 12:06:59 PM
.....over half the RF codes have no PLC equivalent.
Many older X10 hand held remotes could send vast number of RF codes as well but they were limited to the house code they were set to.

Your right. Lets think about what the RF signal are (were?) TV-VCR commanders, X10 camera bases, and the security consoles and devices. It would be nice to have the ability to setup security (motion) sensors to turn on lights. Or maybe lack-of-motion to turn lights off. Not sure I'd want an Alexa enabled device to turn my security console on/off. But could the wifi HUB handle such a macro anyway?

What else are we using RF for now-a-days?
Title: Re: RF capabilities
Post by: Tuicemen on January 17, 2018, 12:23:41 PM
Currently macros (scenes) are very limited. but I'm hopeful these will grow.
Originally the WM100 was to have more onboard memory then the CM15 so such macros should be possible if the memory Onboard is what was originally designed.
I've asked for specs on the modules when I asked about the MCU.
I still use motion detectors but these are the security type as I never had much luck with the others.
Many use door window sensors for detecting all sorts of stuff.
I had PCC configured so all kinds of stuff could be triggered by any X10 RF signal seen.
A home made water detector is one thing I setup using these.
 >!
Title: Re: RF capabilities
Post by: HA Dave on January 17, 2018, 12:27:09 PM
..... Many use door window sensors for detecting all sorts of stuff.
.... A home made water detector is one thing I setup using these.

There you go! How do I change my vote?
Title: Re: RF capabilities
Post by: lviper on January 17, 2018, 12:32:04 PM

What else are we using RF for now-a-days?

I currently use the security door/window sensors to turn lights on. One example would be to turn the light on when the door is opened and it's dark outside.

I also use outside motion sensors to not only turn on flood lights outside but to also wait a a minute and turn on an inside light if I'm away and it's dark out.
Title: Re: RF capabilities
Post by: Tuicemen on January 17, 2018, 12:53:50 PM
..... Many use door window sensors for detecting all sorts of stuff.
.... A home made water detector is one thing I setup using these.

There you go! How do I change my vote?
Click on remove vote, then re-vote ;)
Title: Re: RF capabilities
Post by: HA Dave on January 17, 2018, 06:49:41 PM
Click on remove vote, then re-vote ;)

My "other" vote was changed to yes.
Title: Re: RF capabilities
Post by: solareclipse on January 22, 2018, 05:54:40 PM
I voted yes, although in terms of priorities I would much rather have Google Home integration.  If they need to make a WM200 that includes RF, I'd be ok with a different device.
Title: Re: RF capabilities
Post by: Knightrider on January 22, 2018, 07:35:42 PM
Check your votes. This poll has been edited per Roger 1818 specs.
Title: Re: RF capabilities
Post by: Tuicemen on January 23, 2018, 05:07:29 AM
I voted yes, although in terms of priorities I would much rather have Google Home integration.  If they need to make a WM200 that includes RF, I'd be ok with a different device.
Adding RF will most likely require a hardware change and there has been talk of a Pro version, with more MEM, RAM and RF.
I'd also much rather have voice skill for either Google or Alexa.
Title: Re: RF capabilities
Post by: dhouston on February 21, 2018, 07:54:03 AM
Adding RF will most likely require a hardware change and there has been talk of a Pro version, with more MEM, RAM and RF.

This can be done without a hardware change to the WM100. Authinx could design a separate WiFi-enabled (e.g. ESP8266) module with RF RX/TX capabilities. It could communicate with the WM100 via WiFi.
Title: Re: RF capabilities
Post by: HA Dave on February 21, 2018, 10:49:16 AM
This can be done without a hardware change to the WM100. Authinx could design a separate WiFi-enabled (e.g. ESP8266) module with RF RX/TX capabilities. It could communicate with the WM100 via WiFi.

That is a brilliant idea! Maybe even relay security alarm activation both ways plus send alarms too... directly to a mobile phone.
Title: Re: RF capabilities
Post by: Mic_ on February 21, 2018, 10:16:30 PM
If this is where one votes for RF on the VM 100 follow-on; I vote yes!
Title: Re: RF capabilities
Post by: Knightrider on February 21, 2018, 11:38:21 PM
Well, we do know Authinx 's early attempt at a wifi hub (Wijit), (or WiFi project 1 or W1) worked on a RF transmit system.
And we do know Authinx 's second project at a WiFi hub (WM 100), (or Willie 100 or W2) worked on PLC.
Seems like all that's missing is a receiver and a frequency adjustment and then merge all the projects together.

Will this be W3, or W4,.....?

I can't wait to see W10

(This post is a sly nod to PICO electronics)
Title: Re: RF capabilities
Post by: Tuicemen on February 22, 2018, 12:44:59 AM
The initial proto type was a converted PAT03.
It had a different (discontinued) Wi-Fi chip the RF only worked for 1 house code, If I remember correctly ::) :'
It is to bad the pass through was eliminated because I like dhouston's Idea, and that would have meant a RF receiver could have been plugged directly into the WM.
The WM has lots of horsepower under the hood and hasn't come close to using 1/4 of it yet.
Title: Re: RF capabilities
Post by: Tuicemen on March 01, 2018, 10:15:54 PM
Adding RF will most likely require a hardware change and there has been talk of a Pro version, with more MEM, RAM and RF.

This can be done without a hardware change to the WM100. Authinx could design a separate WiFi-enabled (e.g. ESP8266) module with RF RX/TX capabilities. It could communicate with the WM100 via WiFi.
I pitched this Idea to Authinx (to bad they removed the pass through) it could have plugged right into the wee Willie.
The owner likes the Idea however he wasn't sure if an existing form factor could be used to keep tooling costs down.
Given the size of the ESP chips I figured it could all fit into a RF repeater.(SR751)

A wijit hub might be another possibility since the same manufacture makes those.
After thinking about it using a Powermid might be a better option as we could possibly get IR as well ::) :'
I've not pulled apart either to see what if any extra space is available inside.
Title: Re: RF capabilities
Post by: dhouston on March 01, 2018, 11:05:51 PM
The ESP8266 chip they use in the WM100 is 18x20mm (~0.7x0.8in) so it should fit easily within the SR751 enclosure.

They would only need to invert the output of the RF receiver before feeding it to the ESP8266.
Title: Re: RF capabilities
Post by: dhouston on March 01, 2018, 11:18:52 PM
The owner likes the Idea however he wasn't sure if an existing form factor could be used to keep tooling costs down.

The ESP8266 can connect concurrently* with up to 5 other ESP8266 modules so this could be a simple way to expand the WM100 universe with things like weather stations and _fill in the blank_ while maintaining control of that universe.

*I think this means simultaneous connections while the total number of modules that could make momentary connections may be much higher.
Title: Re: RF capabilities
Post by: Tuicemen on March 01, 2018, 11:30:18 PM
Authinx would like to add more then just RF capabilities with an expansion module (if they go that route).
My initial thought was IR but temperature & humidity monitoring (and the option to trigger things from that info) would also be a nice add.