X10 Community Forum

📱X10 WIFI => 🐞X10 WIFI App problems or bugs => Topic started by: Knightrider on February 25, 2018, 05:11:28 AM

Title: "Room On" button
Post by: Knightrider on February 25, 2018, 05:11:28 AM
I've been playing and discovered a potential problem.  I mounted an old tablet on the wall of the bedroom by the door for use with the WM100 app since I no longer can get a decent KeyPadLink with X10. Have the tablet set to autodim, so I don't think the WAF will be too far off.

I then sorted all the bedroom modules accordingly and added the hallway light and bathroom light and will leave the tablet set to ROOM>Bedroom.

I just noticed the ROOM ON button turns on everything in the room.  What good can this be?  Sometimes in the spring and sometimes in the fall, I place a box fan in the window controlled by an appliance module. ROOM ON turns it on. 

I think the ROOM ON button needs changed to LIGHTS ON. I can live with ALL UNITS OFF.

This could turn bad.  I use X10 on things like a shaving cream heater, electric heaters, attic fans, etc.

Some of these I would want control over, and would prefer to sort into rooms, but not turn on with the accidental press of a button.

For now, I'm reporting this as a design error/bug.

There's simply no reason to have a button that turns everything in the room on.

Any thoughts?
Title: Re: "Room On" button
Post by: JeffVolp on February 25, 2018, 05:29:36 AM

There is no X10 command for "All Units ON".  The manual controller issued "All Lights ON" for "All ON".  The WM100 must be sending individual commands for the Room ON instead of the X10 All (Lights) ON command.

For anyone who has used a manual controller, that would certainly be considered a bug.

Jeff
Title: Re: "Room On" button
Post by: Brian H on February 25, 2018, 06:13:53 AM
Do Appliance Modules also go On?
Title: Re: "Room On" button
Post by: Knightrider on February 25, 2018, 06:23:05 AM

There is no X10 command for "All Units ON".  The manual controller issued "All Lights ON" for "All ON".  The WM100 must be sending individual commands for the Room ON instead of the X10 All (Lights) ON command.

For anyone who has used a manual controller, that would certainly be considered a bug.

Jeff

It is sending individual commands.
Title: Re: "Room On" button
Post by: Knightrider on February 25, 2018, 06:23:38 AM
Do Appliance Modules also go On?

Yep.
Title: Re: "Room On" button
Post by: Brian H on February 25, 2018, 09:51:20 AM
Thank you for the added information.
That makes sense if every module in a room was responding.
Title: Re: "Room On" button
Post by: Noam on February 26, 2018, 02:34:19 AM
To play devil's advocate, if you're using an appliance module to control lights (not uncommon, especially for non-dimming lamps), then "All Lights On" won't work, either.
And if you have additional lamps in the room (on Lamp modules) that you *don't* want to come on, then "All Lights On" wouldn't be helpful there, either.

Scenes would be a better solution for turning on only selected units in a room.
Title: Re: "Room On" button
Post by: JeffVolp on February 26, 2018, 02:43:05 AM
The simple solution is to just leave any appliance module powering a device that should be controlled individually out of the "Room".

Jeff
Title: Re: "Room On" button
Post by: Knightrider on February 26, 2018, 09:19:46 AM
The simple solution is to just leave any appliance module powering a device that should be controlled individually out of the "Room".

Jeff

Yeah,  thought about that, but defeats my purpose. I also have non dimming togglelinks in my kitchen. For now, life would be much simpler to either have the buttons function as x10 always has since 1975, or to eliminate them.

If I can pull this off, I'll have tablets mounted to the wall in every room.
Title: Re: "Room On" button
Post by: HA Dave on February 26, 2018, 10:43:10 AM
I am only using 2 or 3 lamp modules now-a-days as I am mostly using LEDs for lighting. So the lights only function wouldn't be to helpful for me.

I am new to the idea of "rooms" for lighting (don't ask me why). But I really do enjoy turning on large groups of lights... with a single voice command to Alexa. I've even created an "emergency" room, routine.... that pretty much lights up the house inside and out. It's helpful to remember that you don't need to use the names of "actual rooms".
Title: Re: "Room On" button
Post by: Tuicemen on February 27, 2018, 04:07:33 AM
I've been holding off commenting on this trying to weigh the pros and cons.
I see the possible need for an Room on button but also the potential dangers.
I suspect we may see that removed in a future release.
Title: Re: "Room On" button
Post by: JeffVolp on February 27, 2018, 04:11:18 AM
I see the possible need for an Room on button but also the potential dangers.
I suspect we may see that removed in a future release.

How about a check box for individual switches and modules to include them in the Room ON and Room OFF functions?

Jeff
Title: Re: "Room On" button
Post by: Tuicemen on February 27, 2018, 04:17:53 AM
I see the possible need for an Room on button but also the potential dangers.
I suspect we may see that removed in a future release.

How about a check box for individual switches and modules to include them in the Room ON and Room OFF functions?

Jeff
I like that Idea, or perhaps when you set up the device it watches for if you set it up as a non dimmable light..
Title: Re: "Room On" button
Post by: x10wizard on February 27, 2018, 04:24:17 AM
In response to Knightrider's post about KeyPadLincs no longer available with X10, that isn't the case according to Sean Migaud from Insteon.

Earlier this month I emailed Insteon tech support and asked about X10 support for the Dimmer Keypad 2334-222 and the Dimmer Switch 2477D.  At first, James from Insteon tech support told me that the Dimmer Keypads and Dimmer Switches are no longer X10 compatible.  But this is contrary to what it still says in the latest manual for the Keypad.  I wanted to get this straight, so I questioned Insteon tech support again, asking ... is the Keypad manual incorrect?

Sean (from Insteon tech support) replied: At this time we have not removed the X10 compatibility out of our devices but we have stopped advertising the X10 functionality. We do expect in the next year or so to completely remove this feature as supporting X10 is not a part of our future road map and we never intended to keep that functionality for the long haul. When the change happens we will make an announcement on the Insteon.com site and remove the X10 references in the manuals. We started giving out the message you received over a year ago to help mitigate the pain when we finally make that move….so it won’t be a surprise… but for now they are still compatible.

So if anyone out there has recently purchased a new Keypad, I would ask that they please report back with 1) what the Version Number and Date Code is on the Keypad, and 2) whether or not the Keypad is in fact X10 compatible.
Title: Re: "Room On" button
Post by: Tuicemen on February 27, 2018, 05:45:44 AM
I forwarded the concerns with this Room On option to Authinx.
So I suspect an update will be made to the manual explaining the room on/off buttons in more detail and pointing out that Appliance modules also are controlled with these buttons.
I'm told the Room ON is working as intended by design.
It is impossible to know what the end user powers with a X10 module but they plan to add some warnings.
Title: Re: "Room On" button
Post by: dave w on February 27, 2018, 08:49:37 AM
How about a check box for individual switches and modules to include them in the Room ON and Room OFF functions?
I think Room ON is a great feature. I have a "security/panic" event in Homeseer which turns on all lights inside and outside the house, except the bedroom where we are likely to be, in a night burgle. I can't do this with the Willie because I have space heaters and coffee makers in the rooms I want to panic on. Also as noted in the thread, "All Lights ON" X10 command does not work well since a lot of appliance modules are now used for CFL's and LED's

Jeff's suggestion solves all these problems.

I don't know how hard it would be to use Jeff's check box suggestion, but it is a perfect solution IMHO.
Title: Re: "Room On" button
Post by: Noam on February 27, 2018, 09:05:48 AM
How about a check box for individual switches and modules to include them in the Room ON and Room OFF functions?
Jeff

How much different would that be than just setting up a scene (except that you'd need to create separate scenes for on and off for each room)?
Title: Re: "Room On" button
Post by: Tuicemen on February 27, 2018, 09:13:38 AM
Setting up a scene would work as well and add a bit more control for now.

I'm told the manual has been edited (pg13) adding the note about the all devices turning on/off from a Room
The concerns have also been forwarded to the developer to see if the idea Jeff put forth or something simular can be coded in.
 >!
Title: Re: "Room On" button
Post by: Knightrider on February 27, 2018, 10:18:53 AM
In response to Knightrider's post about KeyPadLincs no longer available with X10, that isn't the case according to Sean Migaud from Insteon.


Very good news! (For me)
Title: Re: "Room On" button
Post by: Brian H on February 27, 2018, 09:38:16 PM
Smartlabs, Smarthome and all their patents including Insteon where sold last summer. To Richmond Capital Partners.
Old location almost gone. Shipping and all Customer Support farmed out to third party companies.
They may not have all the details correct.
I know many of the models dropped X10 years ago. The older power line ones probably still support it.

I would also like to see any one with a present date code model saying it still can do X10.
As you pointed out. Present sales pages and manuals don't not show any X10 information for still supported or quietly dropped.
Title: Re: "Room On" button
Post by: Knightrider on March 01, 2018, 04:49:33 AM
How about a check box for individual switches and modules to include them in the Room ON and Room OFF functions?

Jeff

I am only using 2 or 3 lamp modules now-a-days as I am mostly using LEDs for lighting. So the lights only function wouldn't be to helpful for me.


It just occurred to me that when you set up a new module in the Willie 100 App, it specifically asks you if the module is a light source, and if it's dimmable. Seems to me the app planned on appliance modules on LED lights, they just missed something in the code.

The new WS469's aren't dimmable, but do respond to ALL LIGHTS ON commands. If it were an issue of the app just sending the generic ALL LIGHTS ON, there would be no need to specify (Other than for the app to know whether to put a dim slider on the control).