X10 Community Forum

General Home Automation => Automating Your House => Topic started by: Mic_ on March 12, 2018, 07:13:28 PM

Title: Garage Door Opening Modules
Post by: Mic_ on March 12, 2018, 07:13:28 PM
Question; I have (packed away since the old x-10 folded) a garage door opener module that I would like to know if it will work with the WM100. If it is RF, I know it will not work with the WM100 because the WM100 is PLC based.

This may be something X10 may want to consider adding to a wish list; A PLC controlled garage door opening module. For the old (pre existing, possible RF modules) opener modules, one can wait for the follow-on to the WM100, hopefully one with both PLC and RF control capabilities
Title: Re: Garage Door Opening Modules
Post by: Knightrider on March 12, 2018, 07:23:56 PM
The powerflash Universal module (UM506) can be used to open the garage door via PLC.

The caveat is that with 256 PLC codes, I could in theory, open your garage door by plugging a  maxi controller into an outdoor outlet and gain access to your bouse. (If I know where you live, and that you use X10, and I know you have the garage door on a powerflash)
Title: Re: Garage Door Opening Modules
Post by: HA Dave on March 13, 2018, 02:59:50 AM
...... The caveat is...... I could in theory, open your garage door by ........

Knightrider is correct. The fact that X10 is NOT a secure protocol has always been the concern. There are creative ways to add a little security if you also use a CM15A and macros.... by making the door opening a 2-step process (with the first step setting a timed and very temporary condition that that the 2nd step utilizes).

It might be easier to just add an extra remote to your house hold. Much easier to find the old obsolete remotes using the InterWeb.

I almost felt lucky when my old Liftmaster garage door opener failed. To have the "Garage door people" come to the house and replace the old unit was going to be pricey. And they said they no longer replaced the relays in the oldest units (like I had). But a new Chamberlain with MyQ was only $159 at the local building supply place. Of course I had to pick-up a little router thingy, and an extra remote.

But all-in-all.... it was well worth the cost to effort to get notifications of the garage doors status on my phone. P.S. I still use the security door switch/sensor and a powerflash module to control a couple lights on the inside for a more obvious door status. 
Title: Re: Garage Door Opening Modules
Post by: Mic_ on March 13, 2018, 06:42:39 AM
So, what I'm hearing here is that the x10 garage door open/close solutions are not the most secure options.

It's like this; I have cameras to see if I accidentally leave my garage door open. I seek the best, most secure means to close it in that instance
Title: Re: Garage Door Opening Modules
Post by: Brian H on March 13, 2018, 07:03:30 AM
If the Garage Door Opener uses a simple push button.
A Universal module can simulate the push button.

If you have one of the newer ones that have a wall mounted console. With features like a clock and light control. All on one two wire connection. The Universal Module probably will short the signals and power on the wires and it will not work or reset everything to power up conditions. In that case. Some have gotten an RF or secondary remote and wired the Universal Module to the remotes button. Simulating you pushed the remotes button.

I believe some have powered the Universal Module through another X10 module. Like an appliance module. So you had to power on the appliance module. That activated the Universal Module
Title: Re: Garage Door Opening Modules
Post by: Knightrider on March 13, 2018, 07:06:24 AM
I guess you could wire a powerflash UM506 across the button terminals in series to a N.C. contact switch that opens when the door is completely closed.

That way, the Powerflash Universal Module would only work if the door was up.
Title: Re: Garage Door Opening Modules
Post by: HA Dave on March 13, 2018, 07:32:22 AM
I believe some have powered the Powerflash through another X10 module. Like an appliance module. So you had to power on the appliance module. That activated the Powerflash.

Yep. Or if using a CM15A you can create a condition of a phantom module being in the OFF position. Which would prevent an unauthorized user from merely turning ON all 256 H/U's to open the door. 

Or you can go a step further and make it all part of a macro triggered by an OFF, that would quickly reset itsef to the proper (wrong) On/OFF positions. So someone would be unlikely to discover the proper ON/OFF positions.
Title: Re: Garage Door Opening Modules
Post by: dave w on March 13, 2018, 09:26:06 AM
I guess you could wire a powerflash across the button terminals in series to a N.C. contact switch that opens when the door is completely closed.

That way, the Powerflash would only work if the door was up.
This is the way I have our door wired, except it is a Universal module not a PowerFlash.
Title: Re: Garage Door Opening Modules
Post by: dave w on March 13, 2018, 09:29:21 AM
Mic, I think we are on the wrong track here. I think all references to "Power Flash" in this thread should actually say "Universal Module" which will give you a continuous OR momentary relay closure with an X10 ON command.

https://www.x10.com/pum01-universal-module.html

The Power Flash module does just the opposite. It sends an X10 ON code when you give it a closure or a low voltage signal, and an X10 OFF code when the closure goes open.

Title: Re: Garage Door Opening Modules
Post by: HA Dave on March 13, 2018, 09:34:04 AM
Mic, I think we are on the wrong track here. I think all references to "Power Flash" in this thread should actually say "Universal Module" which will give you a continuous OR momentary relay closure with an X10 ON command.

A powerflash module will send an X10 command when triggered. A Universal module will trigger (close or open) a relay when commanded by an X10 PLC... right. You know.... I hadn't caught where it got off track myself..... thanks for pointing that out.
Title: Re: Garage Door Opening Modules
Post by: Knightrider on March 13, 2018, 11:33:28 AM
I guess you could wire a powerflash across the button terminals in series to a N.C. contact switch that opens when the door is completely closed.

That way, the Powerflash would only work if the door was up.
This is the way I have our door wired, except it is a Universal module not a PowerFlash.

Well darn. Of course my friend Dave W is correct. It's a UM506 that does that trick. The powerflash is something else.

Thanks for catching my feeble minded mistake.
Title: Re: Garage Door Opening Modules
Post by: Mic_ on March 13, 2018, 06:28:50 PM
Thanks all. Great info
Title: Re: Garage Door Opening Modules
Post by: Brian H on March 13, 2018, 06:47:10 PM
I was also 100% incorrect. B:(
I am sorry my head was screwed on backwards.
Maybe it was too many storms and no power for days on end.
It is a UM506 Universal Module with Dry Contact output. Connected to the garage door opener..
Not a PF284 Powerflash as it sends X10 commands when an input is applied.
Title: Re: Garage Door Opening Modules
Post by: dave w on March 14, 2018, 06:34:18 AM
Guys, I had an advantage. I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express the night before. 
Title: Re: Garage Door Opening Modules
Post by: dave w on March 14, 2018, 07:45:48 AM
This may be something X10 may want to consider adding to a wish list; A PLC controlled garage door opening module.

Mic
FWIW
The link below is a combination Garage Door Control and Status module from Smarthome, is basically an X10 Universal Module and a Power Flash module in one box. It appears to still be available.

https://www.smarthome.com/insteon-74551-garage-door-control-status-kit.html

I have one and it works well. The PowerFlash function tells me if the garage door is open or closed ( it triggers a "home wide" verbal announcement of door status when it changes via "Homeseer", my automation software).

The Universal Module function will provide a 2 second closure to the door operator push button terminals, from an X10 ON command. The module's closure function is wired through (series) a second magnetic switch and that switch is closed only when the door is down. 

This was done because X10 modules can false trigger and as Knightrider pointed out,  x10 coding has no security, so someone with a Palm Pad (RF remote) can stand outside your garage door and try all 256 codes until the door opens, in a few minutes.  Since the module is effectively disconnected when the door is down, X10 falsing is no longer a concern for me.

If you are interested in the Smarthome module, call and verify that it can still be programmed for X10 codes. I emailed Smarthome support a year or so ago to verify the Smarthome garage module was still X10 compatible. The delayed reply was that: yes, it was still X10 compatible and would likely remain that way until Smarthome brought out a new Insteon  "dual band" version. I notice the downloadable instruction manual still has X10 programming instructions.
Title: Re: Garage Door Opening Modules
Post by: Mic_ on March 14, 2018, 06:44:43 PM
Again, thanks a bunch. I will definitely investigate and latch on, if available and workable
Title: Re: Garage Door Opening Modules
Post by: Mic_ on March 14, 2018, 06:48:02 PM
Dave; it's available, compatible and ordered   :)%
Title: Re: Garage Door Opening Modules
Post by: Brian H on March 14, 2018, 07:21:54 PM
Here is the link to the Full Users Manual for the 2450 I/O Linc module in the kit.
It has to be downloaded anyway. As only a small Quick Guide is in the box.
https://cache-m2.smarthome.com/manuals/2450.pdf
Title: Re: Garage Door Opening Modules
Post by: dave w on March 14, 2018, 09:58:27 PM
Dave; it's available, compatible and ordered   :)%
I think you will like it. I have had three X10 PowerFlash modules (the door status monitor) quit working out of the blue, so bought one of the Smarthome modules. Have had no trouble with it, other than it was a little difficult to program for X10. First you have to program your two X10 addresses (if you are using both control and status functions) , and then you have several options on how the closure relay responds and how the status responds to an input.  Being an old geezer, I probably did not follow the directions closely. Took several attempts to get it right. 
Title: Re: Garage Door Opening Modules
Post by: Brian H on March 15, 2018, 02:19:56 AM
That is why there is a Factory Reset available.
If you miss a step in the Set Button sequences.

Also occasionally modules ship with test Insteon links and sometimes X10 in them.
Most seasoned users automatically do a Factory Reset before doing anything with them.
Title: Re: Garage Door Opening Modules
Post by: Mic_ on March 15, 2018, 06:32:10 PM
Thanks again folks