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🖥️ActiveHome Pro => ActiveHome Pro General => Topic started by: jayem on March 19, 2018, 12:30:29 AM

Title: CM15 problems
Post by: jayem on March 19, 2018, 12:30:29 AM
I cannot turn on a WS13A switch from a CM15. I can turn the switch on from the computer and other X10 controllers such as a  TC262.  The off command works, but the on command fails. The TC262 is plugged into the same AC outlet as the CM15.  The load on the WS13A are three 800 lumen LED lamps, but I would assume since the WS13A uses a relay to switch the load that it is relatively independent of load.  The CM15 controls other addresses without a problem.  I have replaced the CM15 and the WS13A but the problem persists.  I have downloaded the latest version of ActiveHome 3.318.  I have changed the house code and address, but again no change.  I have a Leviton bridge/repeater installed at  the service panel and isolate devices that have switching power supplies from the circuit that powers the CM15.  Short of an exorcist any ideas?
Title: Re: CM15 problems
Post by: Mickcri on March 19, 2018, 01:19:11 AM
Hi, I had a similar problem with LEDs a while back, even though the X10 unit is switched it has a sensor wire on the output side to tell the unit whether it is on or off, LEDs seem to confuse the unit, try an incandescent load and see if it works okay, if it does I may have a fix for you, I would post it here but donít know how to upload photos, try an incandescent and see what happens.
Title: Re: CM15 problems
Post by: jayem on March 19, 2018, 02:27:51 AM
Thanks for your response.  Unfortunately switching to incandescent only, did not resolve the problem.  I would be interested in your modification to the WS13 and you can send data and pictures to me at jayem1@msn.com.  Again thank you.
John
Title: Re: CM15 problems
Post by: JeffVolp on March 19, 2018, 02:41:55 AM
Is this switch possibly defined as a dimmer lamp switch in AHP?  If so, it could be sending extended codes for the ON, which would be ignored by the WS13A.

Jeff
Title: Re: CM15 problems
Post by: jayem on March 19, 2018, 02:46:14 AM
The WS13 is specifically stated to be a non dimmer.  Switching is accomplished with a relay so it could not possibly be a dimmer.  This switch also states that it will work with LED lamps.
Thanks for your ideas.
John
Title: Re: CM15 problems
Post by: JeffVolp on March 19, 2018, 02:58:23 AM
The WS13 is specifically stated to be a non dimmer.  Switching is accomplished with a relay so it could not possibly be a dimmer.  This switch also states that it will work with LED lamps.

Yes, I know that.  I was asking if perhaps the switch was not identified correctly in AHP.  If not, that would explain what is happening.  You might also try defining it as the old style just to be sure the CM15 is sending the regular ON command.

Jeff
Title: Re: CM15 problems
Post by: Brian H on March 19, 2018, 06:54:53 AM
Did you define the WS13A from the Appliance Drop Down List?
I see the Lamps and Old Before Soft Start Lamps list a WS13A-L.
The Appliance Drop Down List has a WS13A-A in it.
I have no idea what a WS13A-L is or the difference between a WS13A-L and WS13A-A is.
Title: Re: CM15 problems
Post by: dave w on March 19, 2018, 07:27:51 AM
Maybe it is "asking" whether you want to define the switch as a Lamp or Appliance(?) Does AHP have an "all lights on" function?
Title: Re: CM15 problems
Post by: SkipWX10 on March 19, 2018, 09:44:35 AM
Maybe it is "asking" whether you want to define the switch as a Lamp or Appliance(?) Does AHP have an "all lights on" function?

Yes it sure does, and it would make sense that the "A" and "L" designations are there for that reason
Title: Re: CM15 problems
Post by: HA Dave on March 19, 2018, 10:19:13 AM
Yes it sure does, and it would make sense that the "A" and "L" designations are there for that reason

I thought the letter designated rooms.... with A being for Attic, and L being for Lanai.  :'

Sorry.... I couldn't help myself. 
Title: Re: CM15 problems
Post by: Brian H on March 19, 2018, 07:02:15 PM
If you added the WS13A from either of the Lamp Lists. Try using the WS13A-A in the Appliance List.

Fading memory here.
I think buried deep in the older AHP messages here. There where posts on the WS13 being listed in the two Lamp Lists and did not work correctly.

I did a test with Registered AHP 3.318.
WS13A-L modules get sent an Extended X10 Code for an On.
WS13A-A modules get sent a Standard X10 Code for an On.
Title: Re: CM15 problems
Post by: Brian H on March 19, 2018, 08:53:38 PM
I did another test.
Used a WS13A-L module in AHP and X10 Modules that can use Extended X10 Codes.

I can turn On and Off. A Two Way AM14A, LM14A and a Soft Start LM465.

The WS13A-L does not have a dim feature in AHP. So dimming was not an option to try.
Title: Re: CM15 problems
Post by: jayem on March 19, 2018, 10:56:42 PM
After going through the list of module possibilities, never did find WS13, I tried 20 amp heavy duty Appliance module and it worked.  HURRAY!  I have been using X10) since the BSR days and I have never had this much trouble.  Most often trouble due to some form of switching power supply plugged into same receptacle.  They have an EMI filter that kills the X10 110khz signal.
Thanks for your help and patience.
John
Title: Re: CM15 problems
Post by: JeffVolp on March 19, 2018, 11:46:02 PM
After going through the list of module possibilities, never did find WS13, I tried 20 amp heavy duty Appliance module and it worked

That confirms that AHP assumed it was a dimmer switch and was sending the extended ON code, which is ignored by appliance modules and relay switches.

Jeff
Title: Re: CM15 problems
Post by: Brian H on March 20, 2018, 12:29:39 AM
What revision of AHP are you using?
The WS13A-A is in the appliance list.
The WS13A-L that sends an Extended X10 message is in the Lamps and Old Lamps (Before Soft Start) lists. In V3.318.
Title: Re: CM15 problems
Post by: jayem on March 20, 2018, 12:41:36 AM
I don't know about the dimmer assumption as the CM15 when driven by the computer worked well and the module responded to all the other controllers.  It is a possibility that the CM15 does have some unique form of protocol.  "Who knows what evil lurks in the heart of man"  The CM15 system didn't respond to some of the earlier switch programs that did not have dimmer capability. 
I should mention that like many others I have had some difficulty with LED lights switched by Appliance and Lamp modules and in almost every case the modules switched off if I had a small "wall wart" power supply plugged into the module output.  Perhaps there is a Power Factor issue.  Seems like a small price to pay for resolving this issue.
Thanks again
John
Title: Re: CM15 problems
Post by: Brian H on March 20, 2018, 12:53:25 AM
Only the WS13A-L in the two Lamp lists use the X10 extended commands.
The WS13A-A in the Appliance list should work properly.

The LED findings. Is many times the Local Control Sensing voltage and On Off sensor in relay types mixed with the LEDs electronics. The small wall wart would load down the sensing voltage so the LED bulbs did not glow when Off.
Title: Re: CM15 problems
Post by: jayem on March 21, 2018, 12:40:05 AM
I am using version 3.318, but I think the list may be truncated and I am not seeing the full line.  Cannot open the window more so this is only a guess.
Over the many years, since 70's, I have never paid too much attention to the specific type of device as I assumed the address protocol was common to all devices.  Now I see that at least as far as the CM15A is concerned it is fussy about the specific device.  Good to find that out before I expire this vale of tears.
Thanks to the group for your interest and suggestions.
John
Title: Re: CM15 problems
Post by: Brian H on March 21, 2018, 05:31:10 AM
Some of the choices mostly give you a icon to represent the module in AHP.
Some like the LM465 and Wall Switches could determine what AHP send to the modules address.
Later wall switches with Preset Dim, Soft Start and the Soft Start LM465. Can use X10 Extended Commands while the older ones can not. That is why AHP 3.318 has two Lamp Lists. If you use the Lamps List with an older X10 module. It will be sent an Extended X10 command. Like On that an older model does not process. So it does not go On.