X10 Community Forum
💬General Category => Mac/Linux & Open Source and the X10 Home => Raspberry Pi, Arduino & other SBC => Topic started by: Tuicemen on April 22, 2018, 07:39:11 PM
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I'm real late to this party, I've yet to jump into the Raspberry Pi world.
I realize many have used x10 with a PI since it first came out and I've played with X10 in Linux periodicaly over the years.
I'm just wondering what model everyone is using and are you doing anything else with it other then HA?
Did you upgrade your PI to a newer version? If so why?
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I use a Raspberry Pi 3B for all my HA: about 30 devices, mostly X-10 and a few non-X10. I never tried the earlier models, so I can't compare. The Pi also runs a web server and file server (LAN only) and does some light web browsing and file editing, all without seeming to break a sweat. I don't see a need to move up to the 3B+ at this point.
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I am also using a Raspberry Pi 3B.... but mostly just a web-surfing (and learning) device now. I've yet to get a software DL to run anything that would enable HA control.
I do (also) have a Homeseer Hometroller... which is a Pi itself. It uses a CM15A as an interface to control my X10.... and it is AWESOME.
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I now have a CanaKit Raspberry Pi 3 B+ (B Plus) Starter Kit in route. So I'm told :)%
I looked at just the 3B but the B+ was same price.
I may pick up a Zero W at a later date to use in a CM15 mod or as a WM100 companion module.
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I now have a CanaKit Raspberry Pi 3 B+ (B Plus) Starter Kit in route........
>! I believe the potential of the Pi..... to be enormous. Although... a bit out of my skillset. The nice thing is that once a working setup is created.... a memory card (or card DL) could be created that would work with all Pi's.
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I've read one of the PI Linux distributions isn't backward compatible with other PIs. :(
I'm not sure if this is true for all Linux versions for the 3B+ (I hope not)
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Very little to choose between the Raspberry Pi 3B and the Pi 3B+ in overall performance. If they are retailing at the same price the Pi 3B+ is the obvious choice.
If you are looking for a serious increase in performance the Rock64 is worth purchasing.
https://www.pine64.org/?page_id=7147
You can see from the link the difference in specs and for very little extra, price wise, it's worth considering it. I have Homeseer 3 running on it via Armbian Linux and of course my CM11 is my lighting controller of choice.
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The Rock64 would be a better performer no doubt especialy with 4 gigs of mem.
It is also a bit smaller then the PI which may be worth a consideration.
However it doesn't have onboard WiFi you need an addon for that if needed.
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The Rock64 would be a better performer no doubt especialy with 4 gigs of mem.
It is also a bit smaller then the PI which may be worth a consideration.
However it doesn't have onboard WiFi you need an addon for that if needed.
Yes I had a spare wifi dongle I used on the Raspberry Pi which I deployed here. The Linux distros they offer on the Rock64 forum are a little tricky when it comes to wifi. I ended up loading a version of Armbian from the armbian forum to resolve that which uses up one of two USB2.0 ports available.
The ironic thing here is that the third USB port on the board is a USB3.0 which I have the CM11 attached to. No problem with backward compatibility here but I have a push bike attached to a Ferrari engine :)%
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Yes I had a spare wifi dongle I used on the Raspberry Pi which I deployed here.
Which PI were you running prior and why did you upgrade?
If the upgrade was solely for performance what all were you using the PI for?
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I have a RPi1B that I use for HA and a RPi3B I'm tinkering with. I spent a lot of time setting up the RPi1 and it works great. The RPi3 was intended to replace it with the same (updated) setup. However, I've been skunked in getting the new OS to work the same way with the same software I have in my old setup. The different versions are not universally usable with different versions of the RPi though. If you have a RPi3, you probably won't be able to use Raspbian Wheezy. Jessie will probably work, but you would be best suited to use Stretch. My issue has been that the software that works on Wheezy and Jessie has issues with newer drivers of Stretch and I'm not a Linux guru.
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I read the newest Raspbian was the only Linux version which had the new drivers for the 3B+ (at the time of the articles publication)
And I believe it wasn't backward compatible.
They expected the others would add the drivers in their next update.
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I haven't tried this and it looks a bit roundabout but...
https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/install-windows-software-raspberry-pi/ (https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/install-windows-software-raspberry-pi/)
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Yes I had a spare wifi dongle I used on the Raspberry Pi which I deployed here.
Which PI were you running prior and why did you upgrade?
If the upgrade was solely for performance what all were you using the PI for?
Pi3. Homeseer is a bit of a memory hungry beast. Still have the Raspberry Pi form factor, a slight increase in power consumption but 4gb of memory overhead to play with. I really thought the new Raspberry Pi would include an optional increase in memory but not to be in this release. Maybe next time.
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I have a RPi1B that I use for HA and a RPi3B I'm tinkering with. I spent a lot of time setting up the RPi1 and it works great. The RPi3 was intended to replace it with the same (updated) setup. However, I've been skunked in getting the new OS to work the same way with the same software I have in my old setup. The different versions are not universally usable with different versions of the RPi though. If you have a RPi3, you probably won't be able to use Raspbian Wheezy. Jessie will probably work, but you would be best suited to use Stretch. My issue has been that the software that works on Wheezy and Jessie has issues with newer drivers of Stretch and I'm not a Linux guru.
Doesn't help that the software you are using is no longer being seriously developed. I'm afraid that Homegenie is stuck in a particular release and as and when the likes of Mono develops all the previous software that was developed for it will break.
I'm so reluctant to get too heavily immersed in any particular HA software as a result of this.
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........ I'm so reluctant to get too heavily immersed in any particular HA software as a result of this.
I can not only assure you.... but also promise you.....EVERY software product will at some point go belly-up. EVERY server will crash, every PC/laptop/and phone will fail. Every company making, marketing, selling and/or even just advertising Home automation products will close their doors. Every written, typed, recorded, or spoken word of Home Automation knowledge will either be lost forever.... or preserved but become so outdated as to become useless.
The grass grows.... we mow it, fertilize it..... and mow it again. And so it is with Home Automation (and almost everything else). Home Automation (and lawns) exist no-where in nature. Both are unstable human creations. As almost everything worth having they require regular... if not continuous... maintenance, repair, and updating/upgrading.
Many of us here.... saw [the old X10] close their doors. We saw servers fail. Everything changed. Everything will always change... and we will continue to roll with it. As technology advances our setups will change. Not every change will be welcome by everyone. But change is all we have. It can never be different.
My Home Automation set-up will be complete and finished.... the very night I die. Otherwise... I am planning, expanding, altering, and looking for new technologies to incorporate into my Home Automation.
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........ I'm so reluctant to get too heavily immersed in any particular HA software as a result of this.
I can not only assure you.... but also promise you.....EVERY software product will at some point go belly-up. EVERY server will crash, every PC/laptop/and phone will fail. Every company making, marketing, selling and/or even just advertising Home automation products will close their doors. Every written, typed, recorded, or spoken word of Home Automation knowledge will either be lost forever.... or preserved but become so outdated as to become useless.
The grass grows.... we mow it, fertilize it..... and mow it again. And so it is with Home Automation (and almost everything else). Home Automation (and lawns) exist no-where in nature. Both are unstable human creations. As almost everything worth having they require regular... if not continuous... maintenance, repair, and updating/upgrading.
Many of us here.... saw [the old X10] close their doors. We saw servers fail. Everything changed. Everything will always change... and we will continue to roll with it. As technology advances our setups will change. Not every change will be welcome by everyone. But change is all we have. It can never be different.
My Home Automation set-up will be complete and finished.... the very night I die. Otherwise... I am planning, expanding, altering, and looking for new technologies to incorporate into my Home Automation.
Profound words indeed but remember you're still using X10. Why.....possibly because it's simplicity is it's strength. It's the reason why I'm still using it. No matter what arrives on the market I'll find a way to get my X10 setup working with it. I wonder could I say the same thing about the lighting technology arriving on the market today in 30 years time. -:)
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I play it a little different. If I freeze my hardware and software configuration without making any changes, I believe that I can keep the system running for the most part. Of course, that doesn't always pan out (e.g., SSL certificates stop working and so email notification stops).
I bought the RPi3 with the intent to try upgrading to the new version of HG since the new devs seemed motivated. I see they have some progress, but it's certainly not like the old days when Gene made multiple updates a week. Then again, once the software gets stable, what else needs to be done other than update for driver/hardware changes (boring for a dev I imagine).
I'm currently thinking that I'll keep the RPi1 running as is with older HG and try to get Domoticz running on the RPi3. The install worked awesome (something like pressing enter 3 times). But, when completed, I don't have a working service and I can't get it launched. The first time I tried it a few years back there was an RPi image.
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I play it a little different. If I freeze my hardware and software configuration without making any changes, I believe that I can keep the system running for the most part. Of course, that doesn't always pan out (e.g., SSL certificates stop working and so email notification stops).
I bought the RPi3 with the intent to try upgrading to the new version of HG since the new devs seemed motivated. I see they have some progress, but it's certainly not like the old days when Gene made multiple updates a week. Then again, once the software gets stable, what else needs to be done other than update for driver/hardware changes (boring for a dev I imagine).
I'm currently thinking that I'll keep the RPi1 running as is with older HG and try to get Domoticz running on the RPi3. The install worked awesome (something like pressing enter 3 times). But, when completed, I don't have a working service and I can't get it launched. The first time I tried it a few years back there was an RPi image.
I think the guys who took on the Homegenie project are more concerned with what container they can deliver the project in rather than the content. The previous forum had some very creative contributors who contributed some very useful C# programs some of which I still use today. Unfortunately that's all disappeared now. As far as I'm concerned it's a static project and as you say it works on the original Raspberry Pi so probably best to leave it running that way.
Domoticz on the Raspberry Pi is very interesting. Easy to set up, I've got the CM11 working on it, added a few IP cameras and there's a big community and lot of other interesting add ons to investigate. Whatever works best for you is usually best to pursue.
Probably like yourself I've spent a considerable amount of time and effort helping developers test their software. I've learnt quite a bit from these efforts but it does get frustrating when these developers fold their tents and disappear.
The Raspberry Pi has been a welcome game changer too. It's gotten me into the SBC world and my latest purchase, the Rock64 has shown me what these credit card sized wonders are truly capable of.
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........ but remember you're still using X10. Why.....possibly because it's simplicity is it's strength. It's the reason why I'm still using it. No matter what arrives on the market I'll find a way to get my X10 setup working with it. I wonder could I say the same thing about the lighting technology arriving on the market today in 30 years time. -:)
I do have a lot of X10... and it is simplistically.... reliable. And yet it can be made to be very flexible. But... I've never limited myself or my setup to just the use of X10. Even my lighting... which is what most people think about when they think X10... I've spread out over other technologies as well as X10. I tend to hesitate.... before putting all my eggs in the same basket.
A lot different things could fail on my or any setup.... but it would take a LOT of different, and simultaneous failures to take down my entire setup. And that IS one of the great things about X10.... all i really need to make X10 work... is electric power.
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(http://www.gocomics.com/moderately-confused/2018/04/25?ct=v&cti=2035357)
http://www.gocomics.com/moderately-confused/2018/04/25?ct=v&cti=2035357 (http://www.gocomics.com/moderately-confused/2018/04/25?ct=v&cti=2035357)
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rofl I have three large boxes full like that!
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(http://www.gocomics.com/moderately-confused/2018/04/25?ct=v&cti=2035357)
http://www.gocomics.com/moderately-confused/2018/04/25?ct=v&cti=2035357 (http://www.gocomics.com/moderately-confused/2018/04/25?ct=v&cti=2035357)
I like that!
rofl I have three large boxes full like that!
I am pretty good at throwing out the old (and then regretting it later and wishing I still had the device/part). Except of computers. Maybe because I pre-date PC's by so many years.... I always see a value in a working computer. And of course... I have a big plastic tub of X10 parts and pieces (and then a smaller tub of more X10).
I tend to collect (special) bicycles.... and regularly struggle to keep their numbers to that agreed upon with my spouse. To do that I use a one-for-one exchange. If I add a bike... I also sell a bike.
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I have a Pi Zero+ in route which I'll attempt to load some thing on for X10.
I'm thinking of testing Domoticz on it using the disk image from the Domoticz site.
Hopefully start of next week ::) :'
The image doesn't work with the 3B+ so I may attempt a manual install on it.
The Zero doesn't have the horsepower of the 3B+ but it should handle my HA requirements.
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I have a Pi Zero+ in route which I'll attempt to load some thing on for X10.
I'm thinking of testing Domoticz on it using the disk image from the Domoticz site.
Hopefully start of next week ::) :'
The image doesn't work with the 3B+ so I may attempt a manual install on it.
The Zero doesn't have the horsepower of the 3B+ but it should handle my HA requirements.
A lot a the images available are poorly maintained so I find going straight to the source a better alternative. I had to build Mochad in Homeseer for my CM15 a while back as I needed version 0.1.17 to stop lockups on X10. It solved my problem.
Haven't tried the Pi Zero yet but a friend of mine has just built his first "Pi Cluster" an 8 node Pi Super Computer. The processing speeds are amazing to watch in such a small footprint.
I still buy magazines and the MagPi magazine is a great source for all things Raspberry Pi
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The Pi Zero W might be a good candidate for a WM100 companion module.
https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/raspberry-pi-zero-w/ (https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/raspberry-pi-zero-w/)
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The Pi Zero W might be a good candidate for a WM100 companion module.
https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/raspberry-pi-zero-w/ (https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/raspberry-pi-zero-w/)
My thoughts exactly.
Mine came this morning and I've been looking to see about fitting it into a Cm15.Originaly I had thoughtthis could be placed inside the battery compartment with some ajustment to the size of the compartment.
On closer examination it may fit inside the Cm15 its self with out having to cut the battery compartment out.
However since the batteries will not be needed the compartment could be utilized for a heat sink or maybe the camera or both.
The mini usb addaptor I have is to big for this a micro USB adaptor is required to plug in the CM15 unless it was had wired.
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I very seriously considered the Pi Zero W, but then I realized it lacked any USB host connections so I couldn't hook up the CM15 to it. I know it doesn't have the header for the GPIO, but that can easily be added. The lack of USB was a no-go for me for HA.
EDIT: Yes, I know it has a USB-OTG, but I wanted standard ports rather than adapters and more than 1 port ideally. I guess I could have just gotten a USB-OTG hub, but I suppose I just didn't want to go that route.
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Are you sure the Zero can support the CM15A? It's been a few years since I looked into USB-OTG but, IIRC, it's less powerful than regular USB.
OTOH, if only the WM100 had a pass-through function, the Zero W would be ideal as it could easily handle an RF receiver.
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Here's the USB OTG official site.
http://www.usb.org/developers/onthego/ (http://www.usb.org/developers/onthego/)
It appears to have evolved substantially since I first looked at it and, at first glance, looks like it might be able to handle the CM15A but I'll leave that assessment to others with more recent experience.
http://janaxelson.com/usb_embedded_hosts.htm (http://janaxelson.com/usb_embedded_hosts.htm)
http://janaxelson.com/forum/index.php (http://janaxelson.com/forum/index.php)
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The reason for me trying the Zero W is to make a WM100 companion module this will be inside a CM15.
I hope to show Authinx how easy it is to add to an existing Cm15 and maybe convince them to produce something very simular.
Hopfully with an upgraded more powerfull CM15 hardware.
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In processing power, the $10 Pi Zero W is probably equal, if not superior, to the MCU + ESP8266 used in the WM100, plus it also has Bluetooth.
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I now have the Pi Zero W controlling X10 via the CM15 connected to it with HomeGenie-beta_1.1.r526 :)%
There is some tweaking to do but it does work.
This is using the full raspbian-stretch OS however the GUI is not loaded.
I believe that would be to taxing for the Zero W. ::) :'
>!
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I now have the Pi Zero W controlling X10 via the CM15 connected to it with HomeGenie-beta_1.1.r526 :)%
There is some tweaking to do but it does work.
This is using the full raspbian-stretch OS however the GUI is not loaded.
I believe that would be to taxing for the Zero W. ::) :'
>!
I'm glad to hear you got the CM15 working x10 HomeGenie. Did you end up using a GPIO header for USB. It would be interesting if you had a CM11 and connected directly to serial on the GPIO pins.
You'll be impressed with the scripting and scenes ability of X10 in Homegenie. There's quite a few pre written programs for X10 use on the old homegenie forum too that you might get use for.
Plenty of exploring to be done this weekend by the looks of it. When you've completed your experimenting you can show all the AHP users there is another way to do things.
Maybe Authinx should look long and hard at what you have discovered and maybe they might want to rethink the direction they should take their R&D in.
I've moved on from Homegenie a while back. You're next target should be Domoticz now that the Raspberry Pi/Linux has truly bitten.
Ps I've 15 Raspberry PI's on hand ranging from the original model up to the Raspberry Pi 3. The older ones have been assigned camera duties via MotionEyeOS. Motion detection and notification and working on facial recognition which is very interesting.
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The Pi Zero W I ordered has no GPIO header though one could be added.
The Cm15 is plugged into the micro USB using an adaptor.
Sadly I don't have a CM11. I ran my X10 setup in the early years with a CM17 and the firecracker software.
When I was about to move to the CM11 the CM15 was introduced so I figured I'd go with the newest greatest.
I have been in contact with the Authinx owner explaining how I was planning on adding a Pi into the cm15.
I had previously suggested a WM100 Pi companion module which he pitched to the manufacture.(never heard the out come of that) That may still happen. The Pi in a CM15 is proof of concept and the Zero W is the board for that.
All my CM15As are with the old original style ciruit boards the newer ciruit boards may allow for a different size Pi style board with more power.
I plan to revisit installing HG on the 3B+ with a full raspbian-stretch as my first attempt I believe was flawed adding more then needed or the wrong drivers. Installing HG on the Zero was very simple.
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The Pi Zero W I ordered has no GPIO header though one could be added.
The Cm15 is plugged into the micro USB using an adaptor.
Sadly I don't have a CM11. I ran my X10 setup in the early years with a CM17 and the firecracker software.
When I was about to move to the CM11 the CM15 was introduced so I figured I'd go with the newest greatest.
I have been in contact with the Authinx owner explaining how I was planning on adding a Pi into the cm15.
I had previously suggested a WM100 Pi companion module which he pitched to the manufacture.(never heard the out come of that) That may still happen. The Pi in a CM15 is proof of concept and the Zero W is the board for that.
All my CM15As are with the old original style ciruit boards the newer ciruit boards may allow for a different size Pi style board with more power.
I plan to revisit installing HG on the 3B+ with a full raspbian-stretch as my first attempt I believe was flawed adding more then needed or the wrong drivers. Installing HG on the Zero was very simple.
Yes once the euphoria of the Pi Zero and X10 has settled you should manage to get a full desktop version install of Homegenie on the PI3B+
With a fully open firmware approach the sky is the limit if Authinx put their mind to it. There's little point reinventing the wheel when it comes to circuitry. It's all available these days. It just requires a creative mind to apply it to every day applications.
I'm still quite partial to the CM11. Signalling seems a lot more efficient and response times are faster than my CM15. To be honest the RF side of the CM15 I found to be a bit flaky. If I really need RF I just plug in a transceiver.
Anyway great to hear you got your Pi-X10-Homegenie setup running. Looking forward to hearing what you achieve with it and what other bits you might add. >!
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I have been in contact with the Authinx owner explaining how I was planning on adding a Pi into the cm15.
I had previously suggested a WM100 Pi companion module which he pitched to the manufacture.(never heard the out come of that) That may still happen. The Pi in a CM15 is proof of concept and the Zero W is the board for that.
This might make more sense...
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Orange-Pi-2G-IOT-ARM-Cortex-A5-32bit-Support-ubuntu-linux-and-android-mini-PC-Beyond/1553371_32802458477.html?spm=2114.12010615.0.0.7c351f59Hp9NwV (https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Orange-Pi-2G-IOT-ARM-Cortex-A5-32bit-Support-ubuntu-linux-and-android-mini-PC-Beyond/1553371_32802458477.html?spm=2114.12010615.0.0.7c351f59Hp9NwV)
It can run Android and you could create an app using B4A. I can provide small, 4-pin, 310MHz RF receivers & transmitters (There's PICBasic code on my website for both - you can convert to B4A.) so there's no need for the CM15A.
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The Pi Zero W I ordered has no GPIO header though one could be added.
The Cm15 is plugged into the micro USB using an adaptor.
Sadly I don't have a CM11. .......
Don't forget the old CM11 doesn't have a USB port... it uses a serial port connection.
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You can run Android on a Pi as well.
Many plugins for Domoticz are created with B4J. Much of B4J could be converted to B4A very easily I've read, as well as the other way arround.
B4J is free B4A is not.
The Pi Zero W was just a cheap board I picked up hoping to get Authinx excited with how easy something could be put together.
I've not suggested they use a Pi Zero W board infact I would suggest they use something with more memory and a faster CPU.
There realy are so many board options out there now a days.
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You can run Android on a Pi as well.
Many plugins for Domoticz are created with B4J. Much of B4J could be converted to B4A very easily I've read, as well as the other way arround.
B4J is free B4A is not........
Why not just run Domoticz on a Pi or Android tablet.... and use BT connectivity to run as a companion with the WM-100. (and then maybe use an addition of a CM19A for X10 RF)
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You can run Android on a Pi as well.
But not on the Zero.
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You can run Android on a Pi as well.
But not on the Zero.
Maybe not (yet) but as I said I'm not suggesting the Zero be used for a companion module, this was just an inexpensive proof of concept.