X10 Community Forum
💬General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: bkenobi on July 11, 2018, 02:50:35 PM
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My PUD has instant rebates on LED lighting (as discussed in past threads). They currently have shop lights at $22 OTD. These are the non replacable double tube style lamps rated at 42W and produce 4000 lumen. Thats about half the energy of a standard shop light and similar light (2400 lumenx2=4800lumen).
I'm only looking because my current bulb supply will eventually run out and ballast and tombstones do have to be maintained. A pair of bulbs or a ballast are about the same price, so this seems like a good option as they fail.
That said, I am seeing a hit on signal strength with a single fixture in my testing. My XTBM shows 8.24 without the light but 6.50 when turned on. If I lose 2v with a single fixture, am I screwed if I install a dozen (for instance)?
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I'd suggest adding a filter or hash choke to the lighting circuit. If you have a filter now you can test to see if it helps.
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I can test with a SmartHome filter. Assuming it works, I won't want to use it though. What kind of a filter/choke would fit inside a lamp?
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Do you know the input current rating of the fixture?
So a choke or wired in filter can safely handle the input current.
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You may want to read this file from Simply Automated. For some information.
http://www.simply-automated.com/documents/452-0053-001_RevE_ZNF10A_User_Guide_130613.pdf
The ZNF10A-W is a wired in capacitor and coil. Supposed to work with all automation protocols. As it suppresses anything above 4KHz.
There is a thread on Cocoontech on what parts are in the kit as it is not too cheep.
http://cocoontech.com/forums/topic/21991-upb-filter-parts-lc-values/
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I'd suggest adding a filter or has choke to the lighting circuit. If you have a filter now you can test to see if it helps.
Even filters will add some load to X10 signals: http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=30226
So you have to be careful which one you use.
Jeff
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I bought one of those LED fixtures from Costco, to replace a fluorescent shop light I had that finally dies (I assume it was the ballast - I didn't bother the check).
The one complaint I have about it is the 3/4 of a second delay when powering it up from a switched outlet (which is how I use it). The old fluorescent fixture comes on instantly (I have one of each in my shop, and two of the old fluorescent ones in the laundry room). I had tried an LED shop light from Home Depot (which was more expensive than the costco one), and it had a longer delay. I haven't noticed any issues with my signal strength, but I also don't have an XTBM (I keep thinking I should buy one, but I really don't need one very often).
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I only turned it on 2x but wasn't watching for a delay. Interesting that LED would be slower than fluorescent since that requires a startup and LED just turn on.
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A 'delay' like that would not even be noticeable.
I don't know what is it a 'PUD", but Rural King has a similar unit, 2 for $50.00 I haven't tried them since I don't need them at the moment. I went with round recessed LED units that use even less power .. around 10w or so.
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I can test with a SmartHome filter. Assuming it works, I won't want to use it though. What kind of a filter/choke would fit inside a lamp?
Read Jeff Volp's article on this at: jvde.us/x10/x10_cfl.pdf
When I added an LED pool light to my system it caused problems when it was on so I tried a hash choke that I found at Electronics Parts Outlet in Houston (epohouston.com). I have no idea what the values are but it's pretty beefy at 1" wide and 3/4" diameter, weighing 1.52 ounces so I tried it with complete success. Been working fine for over a year now. They had a big box of them selling for less than $2 apiece so I grabbed some more the next time I was there. I've googled the numbers on it but no joy.
PM me if you'd like me to send you one. I don't think EPO does mail order but I'll be back in Houston in a couple of weeks and can buy more for anyone who wants them.
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Does this approach (putting a choke across load to neutral) require 1 per fixture, or 1 per light run? If I install these, I'd expect to have several on a switch and I'd want to add the filter in the switch box if possible.
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Note that the choke is placed in SERIES on the load side - NOT across load to neutral which would cause fireworks :o! One per circuit should be sufficient but since I don't know the rating and they're so cheap, I'd probably install one in each fixture. If it's any guide, the pool light has 24 LED's drawing 35 watts. You could try one in the switch box and see if it gets too warm.
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I ended up returning those lights because I found a better alternative. My local hardware store had a huge stack of single "bulb" LED fixtures by the door for $4.99. I tested them and confirmed that they cause no issue for X10. I installed them in my shop and found that they produce at least as much light as my double bulb fixtures. So, I removed 1000W of fluorescent tubes and replaced them with 300W of LED. They produce no buzz. They are brighter. They turn on quicker. They produce less signal degradation for X10. They turn on pretty quick (faster than fluorescent). The ballast won't go bad nor will the bulbs flicker.
I was planning on installing these in my kitchen, but they have plugs on the end and the current fixtures are wedged in a 4' wide opening. Also, these aren't designed to be hard wired so I'd have to install several boxes. Oh, and since they produce as much light as a double tube fixture, they would probably be blinding in the kitchen. I suppose I could try installing 3 the other direction and installing a single 4x box but I think I'll look for another solution.
If I remember, I'll try to find the brand on the fixtures so others know that they work great with X10.
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Thank you for the update.
Glad you found something that is working fine.
I bought some at a local vendor. Ocean State Joblot. My tests show they are very bright. 5000K color temperature. No X10 effects. Only thing mine emitted some RF interference. I am in the country with the FM stations far away so their weak signals got some added noise in them.
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I forgot to look at the box for the lights last night. But, I was thinking my best option for the kitchen is to just replace the tube. Can anyone speak to an LED option that won't adversely affect X10 in a 4' tube that simply plugs into the tombstone? I'm assuming I'll have to rewire them to remove the ballast, correct?
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I have seen both type LED replacement tubes. For fluorescent lights.
Some are designed to just replace the old tubes and be driven by the ballasts but I believe it had to be the electronic type.
I used some that you removed the ballast and wired AC to one end {some have line on one end neutral on the other end}. Mine with one end used had to have the pins not shorted together on the end. I believe known as Instant On.
I did some tests awhile back. With a extra tombstone and a line cord. I didn't see any problems with my XTBM.
One thing on mine. All the LEDs are in a row. So the light comes out of one side. Had one fixture where the tombstones where 45 degrees from straight down. So the light wanted to shine out the sides. Since mine where in one direction. They where rated for less Lumens than the old bulbs but to me where brighter.
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Can anyone speak to an LED option that won't adversely affect X10 in a 4' tube that simply plugs into the tombstone? I'm assuming I'll have to rewire them to remove the ballast, correct?
My local Costco had 4' LED bulbs that simply replaced the florescent ones which I placed in my kitchen light the ballast didn't need to be removed or bypass.
Unfortunately I no longer have the boxes and being at my summer home I can't check the bulbs.
I went back to get a pare of these for my summer home but they were sold out.
These don't affect my x10 setup but I also don't have any x10 modules in the kitchen.
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My local Costco had 4' LED bulbs that simply replaced the florescent ones which I placed in my kitchen light the ballast didn't need to be removed or bypass.
This is what I need, but for magnetic ballast. Is that what you have?
All the 4' LED tubes I have found state "Electronic Ballast Only".
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I don't recall. If I install these tubes in a fixture that is the wrong type of ballast will I get a fireworks display? I'll swing by Costco this afternoon if I get a chance and see if they still have tubes. I know they had them last time I was in and picked up the fixtures.
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My ballasts are electronic.
The fixtures are newer ones.
If I recall the packaging stated they worked with all types of ballasts. However I can't confirm that as the packaging is long gone.
I remember I was leary that they would work.
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I installed a 2-pack of those Costco LED tubes the other day. They seemed to work fine even in the fixture with an unknown issue*. I swapped the other 4 tubes this morning so I can do a bit of further testing. Assuming they are good, they seem like a good way to go for X10. This is not an X10 controlled lighting component, I just worry that it will degrade X10 signals in the system...which these don't seem to do.
* The fixture would sometimes turn on, but usually not. The bulbs were replaced...same result. I replaced the tombstones...same results. I replaced the ballast last year...same result.
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I have several of those LED shop lights from Costco. I use them in my office, garage, and backyard. So far I've had two that sort of went bad. They began to flicker. But being it's from Costco, it was simple to return and get a new one.
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I keep forgetting to post the brand of fixture I installed. They are made by "greenlite" and are just called "LED SHOPLITE". I do like them a lot though they are a bit more directional than I'd prefer. The old fixtures illuminated a wider patch of ground below so the spacing needs to be a bit closer if they are a lower ceiling height IMO. The ones in my shop are higher than in my basement and work just fine. Oh, and since they have a switch on them, I was able to replace my flickering fixture on my workbench with a much more compact unit, too.
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The ones I got from Costco are made by Feit Electronics.
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I found what I had hoped would be an awesome solution to my outdoor wood shed lighting. I currently use a fluorescent 2x48" fixture plugged into a SR227 and a MS16A to turn on lights in the dark when motion is detected. This has worked acceptably for many years. The reason to replace it is not saving money as the lights don't turn on often, but rather to remove the X10 motion sensor and turn the unit into an integrated fixture.
Costco has a Feit 48" fixture with integral motion sensor that throws a ton of light (4000lumen). I tested and found that it eats a lot of signal. In my testing, the fixture reduced a signal of 8.7mV down to 5.2mV when measured next to the fixture. I do not know how this would affect signals when further away from the fixture, but I'm not interested in adding anything that will degrade things. The fixture is sealed, so I can't see if there's an easy way to add an integral filter.
The other issue seems to be that the motion sensor turns on the light even when it's light so it doesn't have a light level sensor. I have lots of animal activity, so I don't want to constantly light the shed when a rabbit moves by. Between these two issues, I can't recommend this fixture.