X10 Community Forum

🔌General Home Automation => Automating Your House => Troubleshooting Automation Problems => Topic started by: JimWise on July 16, 2018, 09:43:12 PM

Title: Replaced white XP4 keypads on X10 XPT transmitters with new ivory ones, issues
Post by: JimWise on July 16, 2018, 09:43:12 PM
I received three X10 XP4 Ivory keypads from DiscountHomeAutomation.com (DHA) today, but none of them seem to work correctly.  Below is a chart showing what is happening:

XPT set to A1   XP4 from X10   XP4 from DHA
Button 1 On   A1 On      A Dim 5%
Button 1 Off   A1 Off      No Signal Sent
Button 2 On   A2 On      A2 Off
Button 2 Off   A2 Off      No Signal Sent
Button 3 On   A3 On      A1 Off
Button 3 Off   A3 Off      No Signal Sent
Button 4 On   A4 On      A3 Off
Button 4 Off   A4 Off      No Signal Sent

I got three XPT units with white XP4 keypads directly from x10.com several years ago, but wanted to change them over ivory.  I ordered the three ivory keypads from DHA and swapped them out, but nothing works correctly with them.  I have the ActiveHome Pro software so I was able to see what signals were being sent.  I do not know if these are the wrong units, or if there was a bad batch, or what.

Links below to photos of the front and the back of the original white and the new ivory keypads:

Any help to resolve this is appreciated.
Jim Wise
Title: Re: Replaced white XP4 keypads on X10 XPT transmitters with new ivory ones, issues
Post by: Brian H on July 17, 2018, 06:23:58 AM
Here is an X10 Wiki entry on the XPT.

The design was changed and the later ones use an "A" on the part to designate between them.
In your first photo. One keypad has the A and the other one does not.
The XP4-W is Date Code 03L51 Week 51 2003.
The XP4-I A is Date Code 09B09 Week 9 of 2009

Look on your XPT base unit and see if it has the A. The photos in the above link show the differences and a start date code. That way you will know if you need the early or revise keypad.
I suspect you are mixing a different revision XPT and keypad.
Title: Re: Replaced white XP4 keypads on X10 XPT transmitters with new ivory ones, issues
Post by: brobin on July 17, 2018, 10:02:46 AM
Given Brian's information, if you can't return the new ones, maybe you can swap the circuit boards. It looks like you can open the kepads with a small flat head screwdriver by releasing the 4 tabs.
Title: Re: Replaced white XP4 keypads on X10 XPT transmitters with new ivory ones, issues
Post by: JimWise on July 17, 2018, 10:35:43 AM
Thanks Brian, that definitely appears to be the case.  The dials on my unit match those of the older, original XPT units.  Looking at the keypads, it looks like the tabs at the top are nearly identical, and the A tabs seem to fit perfectly fine in the original bases.  The ridge across the bottom is different: on the old units it is a solid ridge all the way across while the A units have tabs at either side.  The bottom ridge/tabs don't serve any purpose that I can see, and do not seem to have any impact on installation so I did not notice the difference until now.

I'm a bit frustrated with this situation.  Since X10 decided NOT to use a different part number it seems it will be nearly impossible to find the part I need on-line with any level of certainty.  The "A" designation is not part of the official part numbering and therefor not included in on-line listings, and I don't see anyone specifying that the part they are selling is the old or the new.  Although the box (shown in the link) does indicate the "A", it is way off on the side, on the other side of the illustration of the keypad, not over by the part number.  Even if I do find an on-line listing showing the box and/or unit I would not be surprised if an on-line retailer did not bother updating their image from the original unit as the new ones came in since it is the same part number, and at first glance there is no real difference.

If each button on the XP4 A keypad sent a signal when used with the original XPT base I could use ActiveHome Pro to remap and do what I want, but for whatever reason the revision creates a situation where the "Off" of each button sends no signal, so I can not do this as a work-around.  This makes it even more confusing and frustrating that X10 did not use a different part number.

1. Does anyone know of a place that carries the old, original XP4 Ivory keypads?
2. Is it possible to pop off the plastic covers of the XP4 keypads to just interchange the covers from the units I have?  It looks like the cover might be able to be pried back a bit from the recessed tabs, but not sure if there is enough give to do this without cracking the case:

Well, just before sending this I took a screwdriver and fiddled a bit.  I was able to pop off the covers without cracking them, prying out the circuit boards inside was a bit more intimidating since I was not sure where the tracings and parts were on the other side, but they are thick, sturdy boards with plenty of space between the edges and any tracings or sensitive parts.

In case anyone else ever runs into this issue, to disassemble:
1. Use a screwdriver with a blade small enough to fit into the slots to remove the back cover.  I placed the blade of the screwdriver in one of the recesses in the back and twisted the screwdriver a bit towards the center as I pried, causing the side to bow out a bit to allow room for the recessed tab to come free while at the same time prying the cover up.  As soon as the tab was released from inside I did the same with the other tab on the same side.
2. There is a little notch on either side of the circuit board near the tabs on the end away from the row of pins.  Using a screwdriver I was able to place the blade in the notch of one side and bend out the side of the cover a bit while finessing the circuit board to come up.  When I got one corner free of the tab I worked on the other side.  There are two tabs at the bottom of the cover and the circuit board fits so snugly that I found it easier to free the top of the circuit board first, then work on the lower set of tabs on the side, then sliding it out from the end of the case.

When re-assembling:
1. Make sure the buttons are set correctly in the cover, and make sure they do not get pushed up into the cover as you are re-assembling.
2. Slide the end of the circuit board with the pins into the end of the cover.  Make sure it slides under the two tabs, but is above the tiny ridge at the center of the bottom of the case.  It needs to be seated firmly against the bottom edge of the cover for the circuit board to fit back into place.
3. Use a screwdriver to bow out one side of the case to get the circuit board to slide under the lower tab on one of the sides, or at least to be pressed against the tab.  Repeat with the lower tab of the other side.  Make sure the board is still seated against the bottom of the case or else the top end will not be able to slide inside.
4. Use the screwdriver with the notch in the side of the circuit board to bow out the side of the case again and work to finesse the board under the top tab of the side.  Repeat with the other side.
5. There is a bit of float with the circuit board before replacing the back cover, so be careful not to dislodge any of the buttons.  No need for a screwdriver to get the back cover into place.  The ridge across the back goes towards the bottom, just above the row of pins on the circuit board.  Angle the back cover to place it in one side, then press down on the other side to snap it into place.

When I reassembled my units, I kept used the same backs that originally came with the circuit boards I was using.  That way the backs with the "A" designation were still with the "A" circuit boards.  Although the colors of the backs did not match the rest of the cover, that it not noticeable when in use, and this way I will know which keypads are using the original circuitry and which are using the revised "A" circuitry.

Title: Re: Replaced white XP4 keypads on X10 XPT transmitters with new ivory ones, issues
Post by: Brian H on July 17, 2018, 12:11:04 PM
Thank you for the detailed disassembly information and the workaround you came up with.
I have seen some vendors say in their sales. These are the newer revision A base and keypads.
When the changes where first done. There where vendors saying if they where old or A but they seems to have been dropped that lately.

The same part number does not surprise me. The older wall switches and the later ones with soft start preset dim. Both have the same part numbers. Same for the LM465 Lamp Modules and CFL friendly Appliance Modules. The later LM465 with soft start and accept Extended X10 messages. Also have the same part numbers. This was the bankrupt X10WTI company not the present owners choice.