X10 Community Forum
📱X10 WIFI => 🗯General Discussion => Topic started by: Knightrider on September 05, 2018, 02:19:37 PM
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Before I do something drastic, is the server out again? I can't connect.
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I just connected.
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I just did as well. Wasn't working earlier.
Is it time to retire this device?
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I just did as well. Wasn't working earlier.
Is it time to retire this device?
A weapon of mass frustration possibly :)%
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Mine seems to be fine.
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Is it time to retire this device?
My thoughts are more along the line of "it never should have been released as a retail product." It is missing too many things, and (by design) it is not reliable enough to be much more than a remote. And a slow one at that - given the time it takes to open the app, connect to the server (when it is up), find the unit, and press the button.
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Is it time to retire this device?
My thoughts are more along the line of "it never should have been released as a retail product." It is missing too many things, and (by design) it is not reliable enough to be much more than a remote. And a slow one at that - given the time it takes to open the app, connect to the server (when it is up), find the unit, and press the button.
Sounds painful in this day and age. Not owning one but reading the general consensus appears to favour the refund route. I'm sure a crowd funded alternative could be developed using the skills and experience of forum members if for no other reason than to prove it can be done properly.
The idea of being at the mercy of a third party server in order to achieve functionality sounds even more frustrating. What happens if this server unexpectedly disappears overnight. Is there some form of Plan B In place for this scenario.
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I'm sure a crowd funded alternative could be developed using the skills and experience of forum members if for no other reason than to prove it can be done properly.
With a schematic it might be possible to reverse engineer the hardware and develop open-source firmware and supporting software to address all the issues that have been raised.
Jeff
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I'm sure a crowd funded alternative could be developed using the skills and experience of forum members if for no other reason than to prove it can be done properly.
With a schematic it might be possible to reverse engineer the hardware and develop open-source firmware and supporting software to address all the issues that have been raised.
It might be easier to just add an ESP8266 to one of your existing designs. All of the timers, macros, etc. could be handled by a companion Raspberry Pi.
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All great, wonderful, ideas from great, and like-minded brains. Work-arounds were at one time the bread and butter of X10 forums..... and the WM-100 has certain revived that thinking. I've always enjoyed the creative thinking and new ideas cultivated in these forums.
I use my WM-100 in the very same way I used the Melloware app/server product that allowed me to control every X10 device I owned using my iPhone. As a great remote control that is always handy (as is my phone). Without some redesign/remake/reprogram DIY or factory rework.... that appears to be it's very useful limit.
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Just curious to know what price they retail for.
What exactly are X10 members using them for. Is there really a need for a 3rd party server to be involved here. Can your requirements be achieved without one. I'm guessing device creation, timers and macros and the ability to control all this remotely.
Does it perform any other functions outside of the above.
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Before I do something drastic, is the server out again? I can't connect.
My Sensi WiFi Thermostat on their support page shows if the server is operational or not, very helpful to decide whether I need to rip it off the wall and pull the batteries to reset it or not. I've only had to do that once in the tow months I've had it and that was the second day.
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[With a schematic it might be possible to reverse engineer the hardware and develop open-source firmware and supporting software to address all the issues that have been raised.
It might be easier to just add an ESP8266 to one of your existing designs. All of the timers, macros, etc. could be handled by a companion Raspberry Pi.
The XTB line is approaching the twilight of its production run, so I'm not enthusiastic about taking on another project. While that should work, it would be limited to those technical enough to switch to a Raspberry Pi controller. If we could develop open source firmware/software for the WM100, that should work for most people. The hardware itself appears to be well designed. Pairing that with new firmware/software should result in an excellent controller.
Jeff
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The XTB line is approaching the twilight of its production run, so I'm not enthusiastic about taking on another project. While that should work, it would be limited to those technical enough to switch to a Raspberry Pi controller. If we could develop open source firmware/software for the WM100, that should work for most people. The hardware itself appears to be well designed. Pairing that with new firmware/software should result in an excellent controller.
I may be misremembering details but, I think I looked for programming details for the main processor in the WM100 and came up with nothing. That would be key before trying to suss out a schematic.
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What exactly are X10 members using them for.
When first introduced, the WM100 was impressive. I think we were all hungry for something new. As time passed, flaws became apparent. I'm entrenched in Homeseer which is like AHP plus 10db.
So essentially I use the WM100 as a device remote control and macro trigger for Homeseer. I do feel somewhat sorry for Authinx. It seems the tail (the manufacturer) is wagging the dog. But this sympathy is drifting away. I assume Authinx pays the manufacturer for services rendered which means they *should* be pulling the strings.
I will say this much to Authinx "Don't underestimate us 'old X10 geezers' ".
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I may be misremembering details but, I think I looked for programming details for the main processor in the WM100 and came up with nothing. That would be key before trying to suss out a schematic.
The processor is the ST Microelectronics STM32F103RCT6, and development tools are available:
https://www.st.com/content/st_com/en/products/microcontrollers/stm32-32-bit-arm-cortex-mcus/stm32-mainstream-mcus/stm32f1-series/stm32f103/stm32f103rc.html#sw-tools-scroll
Jeff
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I may be misremembering details but, I think I looked for programming details for the main processor in the WM100 and came up with nothing. That would be key before trying to suss out a schematic.
The processor is the ST Microelectronics STM32F103RCT6, and development tools are available:
https://www.st.com/content/st_com/en/products/microcontrollers/stm32-32-bit-arm-cortex-mcus/stm32-mainstream-mcus/stm32f1-series/stm32f103/stm32f103rc.html#sw-tools-scroll
Jeff
I wonder would a fresh approach and a rebuild from the bottom up be a better proposition. Did the designer consult with the X10 user base and ask them what they wanted rather than what he was giving them. It sounds like the latter to me.
I'm assuming that none of the forum members have a commercial interest in the product other than owning one. It might be worth knocking heads together and coming up with an alternative that provides users with what they want. While the expectation would not be for anyone here to manufacture the unit, maybe a blueprint could be formulated using currently available technologies both hardware and software to arrive at an acceptable solution for all.
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I may be misremembering details but, I think I looked for programming details for the main processor in the WM100 and came up with nothing. That would be key before trying to suss out a schematic.
The processor is the ST Microelectronics STM32F103RCT6, and development tools are available:
https://www.st.com/content/st_com/en/products/microcontrollers/stm32-32-bit-arm-cortex-mcus/stm32-mainstream-mcus/stm32f1-series/stm32f103/stm32f103rc.html#sw-tools-scroll
Jeff
I wonder would a fresh approach and a rebuild from the bottom up be a better proposition. Did the designer consult with the X10 user base and ask them what they wanted rather than what he was giving them. It sounds like the latter to me.
I'm assuming that none of the forum members have a commercial interest in the product other than owning one. It might be worth knocking heads together and coming up with an alternative that provides users with what they want. While the expectation would not be for anyone here to manufacture the unit, maybe a blueprint could be formulated using currently available technologies both hardware and software to arrive at an acceptable solution for all.
Honestly, its not worth it to me. Not worth the wait, not worth the extra $$. I am using the WM100 as a stopgap, while I slowly transition to more state-of-the-art technology. It was worth it to me to spend $100 to continue to use my X10 modules. However, like others in this forum, I am not investing in additi9nal X10 hardware. Its a dying technology.
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When first introduced, the WM100 was impressive. I think we were all hungry for something new.
The WM-100 is solid (as hardware)…. it's design problem is it's concept. It is a "not a cloud device".... at a time when the world runs... on the cloud.
I'm entrenched in Homeseer ...….So essentially I use the WM100 as a device remote control
I also use the WM-100 as a always handy (rarely used) remote. I am also a Homeseer user... although not a devotee. Homeseer isn't putting out any actual effort to attract (or even support) X10 users. I think... Samsung's Smart things Hub can replace Homeseer if I add/convert some switches to zwave. And begin the conversion... maybe leaning a bit on a CM15A.
I do feel somewhat sorry for Authinx. It seems the tail (the manufacturer) is wagging the dog. But this sympathy is drifting away.
They don't seem to understand that technology isn't just hardware. They need in-house techies and code writers. They need to bring in people with logistic, marketing, and technology experience. They need a unified vision of a modern product line... and a plan to deliver it. Not a simple mission.
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I wonder would a fresh approach and a rebuild from the bottom up be a better proposition. Did the designer consult with the X10 user base and ask them what they wanted rather than what he was giving them. It sounds like the latter to me.
Except for battery backup for a real-time clock, the WM100 hardware seems to be fine. It has a much more powerful transmitter than the older generation X10 controllers. The flaws seem to be in firmware and software. So I thought that a complete rebuild of the firmware/software could result in the product we all wanted. The clock issue can be resolved by accessing the on-line US time reference: https://time.gov/
Jeff
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I will say this much to Authinx "Don't underestimate us 'old X10 geezers' ".
Basicaly what I stated to the owner when the developer told him no to providing the protocol for a resonable price.
I told him the developer should note:
It is just a mater of time before one of us figures it out and publishes our findings, the developer will then be without any compensation.
The web is full of info on hacking IOT devices, MQTT hacks and firmware hacking any one direction could be used.
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Better make sure the hack is a good one. I can see a trap being placed that would prevent the web server handshake.
Could be easy to brick these things.
A good hack would rewrite the firmware right out of the gate
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A good hack would rewrite the firmware right out of the gate
Yes, unless the current developer becomes much more responsive, I believe a clean sheet is needed there.
Jeff
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A good hack would rewrite the firmware right out of the gate
Yes, unless the current developer becomes much more responsive, I believe a clean sheet is needed there.
In addition to the STM32F103RCT6 (MCU) there's an ESP-WROOM-02 (ESP8266 based WiFi module) and X24C64 (8KB EEPROM). That might really complicate any hack or clean sheet.
I think I'm also approaching the same twilight as the XTB line - were I not, I'd opt for replacing the daughterboard holding all the above with one holding an RPi Zero W plus RTC. That's also complicated since it requires disassembly, desoldering and soldering. Rather than mess with the (already messy) RPi options bandied about recently, I'd create something resembling a clean sheet using the BBC Basic compiler available for Raspian as well as most mobile platforms.
http://www.bbcbasic.co.uk/bbcsdl/ (http://www.bbcbasic.co.uk/bbcsdl/)
PS: I wonder why Authinx did not utilize the RTC built in to the STM32F103RCT6.
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I believe the owners of X10 fell into the same trap that this thread has fallen into.
Looking for fixes and solutions.... but without a special status or purpose in mind. Proceeding without a specific designation... is never efficient. I was always taught that you start with an honest evaluation as to where your at. Then you decide where you want/intend to end-up. The planning is filling in the blank space between where you're at... and where you want to be.
50 million people (39 million in the USA alone)… are willing to shell-out 100 and some bucks every year... to be Amazon Prime members. In part, the prime membership provides the basics for AI Home Automation. A GIANT step for mankind into the Home Automation market. It would be stupid-foolish for X10 to turn their backs on some many MILLIONS of potential customers.
For GODS sake... X10 could work with Samsung (smart thing hub) and arrange for an app and skill that would allow for a firecracker [CM19A] to be plug-n-play. This could/should be such a stupid-easy fix!
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In addition to the STM32F103RCT6 (MCU) there's an ESP-WROOM-02 (ESP8266 based WiFi module) and X24C64 (8KB EEPROM). That might really complicate any hack or clean sheet.
I think I'm also approaching the same twilight as the XTB line - were I not, I'd opt for replacing the daughterboard holding all the above with one holding an RPi Zero W plus RTC. That's also complicated since it requires disassembly, desoldering and soldering. Rather than mess with the (already messy) RPi options bandied about recently, I'd create something resembling a clean sheet using the BBC Basic compiler available for Raspian as well as most mobile platforms.
Hence the need for a schematic to see how the WiFi module and EEPROM are connected. Replacing the daughter board restricts the market to just those comfortable with working on the hardware. What I had proposed was leaving the hardware alone and just redesign the operating system and supporting software to deal with the many issues that have been raised with the design as it now stands. Hopefully the firmware and software could be just downloaded to the existing hardware.
Jeff
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Replacing the daughter board restricts the market to just those comfortable with working on the hardware.
Your way likely restricts the market to masons (i.e. those skilled with brickwork).
Hopefully the firmware and software could be just downloaded to the existing hardware.
Hopefully is the key word. Without detailed knowledge of the existing firmware in both the WiFi module and MCU it's almost certain you will brick it.
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I had started a thread on my forum prior to the WM100 initial release to hack the wm100.
http://forums.tuicemen.net/index.php?topic=1192.msg7335#msg7335
I seen back then this would possibly need to be done in order to get the options we needed and wanted. Sadly there wasn't much interest. Maybe now ::) :'
I had experiance with cloud dependednt devices prior (Sonoff) an knew these were hackable both with a firmware hack or using MQTT.I never looked into the MQTT option for Sonoff and just did a firmware flash of the Sonoff.
Later I discovered it is possible to hijack the initial setup of a Sonoff device and this may be the route to go for the WM100.
https://blog.ipsumdomus.com/sonoff-switch-complete-hack-without-firmware-upgrade-1b2d6632c01
Using this method would allow anyone to stop relying on the cloud server.
This method would still be limited to those comfortable with setting up their own server, until someone put together a simple sever anyone could install on a PC or SBC.
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All in all...https://www.bing.com/search?q=another+brick+in+the+wall&pc=MOZI&form=MOZTSB (https://www.bing.com/search?q=another+brick+in+the+wall&pc=MOZI&form=MOZTSB)
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Replacing the daughter board restricts the market to just those comfortable with working on the hardware.
Your way likely restricts the market to masons (i.e. those skilled with brickwork).
I see you and I agree like we did on a prior project.
Jeff
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Replacing the daughter board restricts the market to just those comfortable with working on the hardware.
Your way likely restricts the market to masons (i.e. those skilled with brickwork).
I see you and I agree like we did on a prior project.
Actually, I agree 100% with the goal. I just think it's too complex and that you'll likely end up like...
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Actually, I agree 100% with the goal. I just think it's too complex and that you'll likely end up like...
Yes, it would be a complex project. We know the hardware is good. It has to be treated as a totally unprogrammed pieced of hardware, and start from scratch. I am not volunteering to do it myself due to the amount of work involved. My WAG is a man year of effort split between firmware and supporting software. But it may be only way to get out from under the Chinese developer.
Jeff
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Even if you did all that, you'd have to figure out how to hack the existing software to load the new.
Either than, or open the unit and flash it.
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We know the hardware is good. It has to be treated as a totally unprogrammed pieced of hardware, and start from scratch.
I agree that the hardware is outstanding. But, it cannot be treated as a totally unprogrammed piece of hardware because you need to know details about the existing firmware before you can upload new firmware. I haven't followed things closely for the past couple of years but most ESP8266 OTA approaches divide the flash into halves with one half active while new firmware can be uploaded to the dormant half. See...https://harizanov.com/2015/06/firmware-over-the-air-fota-for-esp8266-soc/ (https://harizanov.com/2015/06/firmware-over-the-air-fota-for-esp8266-soc/)
Which half is available is one of the first questions and that may be unknowable without intimate knowledge of the existing firmware. Even then, you still need to figure out how to OTA the MCU.
Now, if you could open the unit and solder a bit, you might do things this way...https://hackaday.com/2015/03/18/how-to-directly-program-an-inexpensive-esp8266-wifi-module/ (https://hackaday.com/2015/03/18/how-to-directly-program-an-inexpensive-esp8266-wifi-module/)
Assuming you know how to upload to the MCU, your market is still limited to those adventurous enough to solder. Thus I prefer my earlier suggestion using the RPi Zero W.
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Even if you did all that, you'd have to figure out how to hack the existing software to load the new.
I would use the ST Micro Programmer/Debugger just like I used the PickKit3 for PICs for development:
https://www.st.com/content/st_com/en/products/development-tools/hardware-development-tools/development-tool-hardware-for-mcus/debug-hardware-for-mcus/debug-hardware-for-stm32-mcus/st-link-v2.html
I'm assuming that the edge connector on the daughter board provides access to the programming pins.
Once the program is developed, I would hope we could use the current firmware update utility to download the new code into a standard WM100 without requiring the utility to be hacked. Of course, we don't know how that will work unless someone actually tries it. And that is likely to brick a few units until the procedure is understood. The "bricked" units should be recoverable with the STMicro programmer. Along that line, I wonder if the existing firmware is protected, or can it be downloaded.
Jeff
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What current firmware update utility?
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What current firmware update utility?
As I recall, there was already a firmware update pushed by the manufacturer, so there has to be a update utility in the firmware to support that download.
I just logged on with my phone and got a notice that my version V0.0.23 is not the latest, and it asked if I wanted to install V0.0.24.
Jeff
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What current firmware update utility?
As I recall, there was already a firmware update pushed by the manufacturer, so there has to be a update utility in the firmware to support that download.
So how will you get your new firmware onto the Alibaba Server in California?
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What current firmware update utility?
As I recall, there was already a firmware update pushed by the manufacturer, so there has to be a update utility in the firmware to support that download.
So how will you get your new firmware onto the Alibaba Server in California?
That may be possible to bypass using a local server. Provided one can achieve that. ::) :'
I actually have a firmware bin file (think it is the current firmware or the one prior) though I've not dug into it, I also have a bricked WM100 which may possibly be revived for tinkering.
I also have a proto type wm100 which has no upgradable firmware but the app still sees and initially connects to.
I'm hoping these things will help with rooting out a means of local control or creating an alternate App. ::) :'
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What current firmware update utility?
As I recall, there was already a firmware update pushed by the manufacturer, so there has to be a update utility in the firmware to support that download.
So how will you get your new firmware onto the Alibaba Server in California?
That may be possible to bypass using a local server. Provided one can achieve that. ::) :'
It that can be done without modifying the ESP8266 firmware then this might be possible (but extremely difficult).
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Nobody has mentioned as to who will be owning/controlling/funding and managing the revamped WM-100's cloud connectivity. Or is the plan.... after all the purposed effort... to merely have a fancy palmpad. Or maybe a newer version of a non-internet connected CM15A.... like we don't all have extras of those anyway.
I am honestly and sincerely NOT trying to be critical. But I don't see the vision here. Every X10 user.... lost Internet/setup connectivity when the old X10 servers when off-line. Now more than ever... connectivity means cloud connectivity.
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The vision here is to dump the cloud.
Maybe not in its entirety, but preferably not as a primary resource.
MyHouse Online was a nice function of AHP, but thankfully was an adjunct.
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The goal is LOCAL CONTROL with optional cloudy skies (easy to implement for the past 17-18 years).
Jeff has said he will not create it and I've intimated that I will not create it so I guess that leaves it up to Tuicemen. rofl
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The vision here is to dump the cloud.
Yes, that was what I was proposing. A clean sheet. No Alibaba. Nothing required external to your home except access to the US time reference following a power interruption. The app that currently downloads a firmware update would be rewritten to download the firmware update from your own internal source - maybe running on a laptop instead of a phone.
Yes, this could function like a CM15A on steroids, except for the ability to transmit RF commands.
Of course, it would require a community to develop the open source code.
Jeff
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Jeff has said he will not create it and I've intimated that I will not create it so I guess that leaves it up to Tuicemen.
I did say I would not create it myself, but I would certainly be willing to contribute to a shared effort.
Jeff
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The vision here is to dump the cloud.
The goal is LOCAL CONTROL
Yes, that was what I was proposing. A clean sheet. No Alibaba. Nothing required external to your home….
Boy... are you guys lucky! I did a little searching and found the exact product of your vision(s) (https://www.x10.com/x10-home-automation/controllers/plug-in/mt14a.html).
But personally... I enjoy an automated "smart home" and whereas timers and remotes are useful... they aren't "smart". It takes real computing to get even basic smarts. And by todays standards... smart homes are serviced by... servers. AI has been the home automation dream for years. And now... we are at the very beginning and some people get a little creeped-out... or whatever. I think we ought to collectively man-up, face our fears, and boldly move forward.
That WM-100 should have had cloud connectivity and a skill available at Amazon.
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But personally... I enjoy an automated "smart home" and whereas timers and remotes are useful... they aren't "smart". It takes real computing to get even basic smarts. And by todays standards... smart homes are serviced by... servers.
Gee, I think I have a smart home. Our Ocelot takes care of all lighting and irrigation. Using simple thermistors, it calculates the temperature in degrees F, and adjusts irrigation cycles based on month and temperature, ranging from a single afternoon cycle weekly during the winter (when highs are still in the 50's) up to 3 early morning and nighttime cycles when the high is over 110F. Inside and outside temperatures are monitored to control auxiliary ventilation in the garage and basement. No connection to the cloud or a server is necessary. And it has worked flawlessly for 15 years.
The microcontroller in the WM100 has enormous capability, so take advantage of it! It is such a shame to be using it just as a simple timer and remote. Since it doesn't look like the protocol will be released and the developer takes forever to do just simple bug fixes, the only option seems to be to undertake the development ourselves.
I totally agree that the WM100 should maintain its ability to be accessed remotely. Since our Ocelot runs the house, that is the only thing I use ours for. But I disagree with it requiring connection to the "cloud" for basic functionality, including timed events and complex macros. It should not be slaved to a server that could disappear in the future. And we all know that can happen.
Jeff
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But personally... I enjoy an automated "smart home" and whereas timers and remotes are useful... they aren't "smart". It takes real computing to get even basic smarts. And by todays standards... smart homes are serviced by... servers.
Gee, I think I have a smart home. Our Ocelot takes care of all lighting and irrigation. Using simple thermistors, it calculates the temperature in degrees F, and adjusts irrigation cycles based on month and temperature, ranging from a single afternoon cycle weekly during the winter (when highs are still in the 50's) up to 3 early morning and nighttime cycles when the high is over 110F. Inside and outside temperatures are monitored to control auxiliary ventilation in the garage and basement. No connection to the cloud or a server is necessary. And it has worked flawlessly for 15 years.
And, should remote access (when out and about) become necessary or even just desirable it can be easily accomplished by adding a Serial to Ethernet module and using any of several free DDNS servers.
https://www.amazon.com/USR-TCP232-302-Serial-Ethernet-Converter-Support/dp/B01GPGPEBM/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1536491966&sr=8-9&keywords=ethernet+to+serial (https://www.amazon.com/USR-TCP232-302-Serial-Ethernet-Converter-Support/dp/B01GPGPEBM/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1536491966&sr=8-9&keywords=ethernet+to+serial)
https://www.noip.com/ (https://www.noip.com/)
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The goal is LOCAL CONTROL with optional cloudy skies (easy to implement for the past 17-18 years).
Jeff has said he will not create it and I've intimated that I will not create it so I guess that leaves it up to Tuicemen. rofl
Well that probably won't happen I simply don't have all the skills required. :(
And probably don't have any of the skills required (yet). As Jeff stated this would require a community effort to be successful.
That WM-100 should have had cloud connectivity and a skill available at Amazon.
The WM100 does have cloud connectivity the developer just isn't making use of it the way it should be.
A server doesn't need to be in the cloud to be successful. True, these are much more powerful Computers then you or I have (in most cases) However I have had several servers running over the last few years handling my own personal automation.
As for an Alexa skill anyone can create one in a few hours if they know how to talk to the WM100. Well over half of then skills are created by individuals with little or no programing skills.
My opinion is the developer is milking Authinx there is no reason a simple time issue should take months to fix nor for it to be half baked when released.
We can all sit by and wait for the developer to make this great or we can make it great.
There is no guaranty the developer won't beat us to the finish line, after all they have a head start. ::) :'
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Just curious to know what price they retail for.
What exactly are X10 members using them for. Is there really a need for a 3rd party server to be involved here. Can your requirements be achieved without one. I'm guessing device creation, timers and macros and the ability to control all this remotely.
Does it perform any other functions outside of the above.
I'd just like to ask the same question again and see exactly what WM100 owners are using their units for. Are they deployed purely for X10 control or are they integrated into a wider home automation solution.
If its purely for X10 any single board computer with a CM15 or a CM11 coupled with a TM751 and Heyu or Mochad will provide most if not all of the features of the WM100 including the transmission of RF codes without the reliance of 3rd party servers. The added benefit of course will be the ability to address your X10 system directly remotely should you need to.
To take it a step further, it gives you the ability to add further elements of home automation on top of your X10 and have them talk to each other still without the need for 3rd party servers or the cloud.
Do X10 users need another plastic box introduced to the mix that forces you to rely on 3rd parties for functionality.
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I'd just like to ask the same question again and see exactly what WM100 owners are using their units for. Are they deployed purely for X10 control or are they integrated into a wider home automation solution.
If its purely for X10 any single board computer with a CM15 or a CM11 coupled with a TM751 and Heyu or Mochad will provide most if not all of the features of the WM100 including the transmission of RF codes without the reliance of 3rd party servers. The added benefit of course will be the ability to address your X10 system directly remotely should you need to.
To take it a step further, it gives you the ability to add further elements of home automation on top of your X10 and have them talk to each other still without the need for 3rd party servers or the cloud.
Do X10 users need another plastic box introduced to the mix that forces you to rely on 3rd parties for functionality.
Currently the WM100 is extremely limited as far as automation is concerned we are being held back by the developer.
Currently the WM100 is not much more then a simple timer controller that you can access with your phone.
The hardware is far superior to any X10 controller currently available. True you can do anything this can do with a SBC and another old x10 interface. However if you had issues with PLC this unit blasts a much stronger signal.
The memory on board is far greater then the cm15 though currently not even being scratched as far as usefulness.
It is possible to have this device talk to other wi-fi connected hubs or devices, so conceivably this is simular (or could be) to my Pi imbedded CM15 (without the RF)
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I'd just like to ask the same question again and see exactly what WM100 owners are using their units for. Are they deployed purely for X10 control or are they integrated into a wider home automation solution.
If its purely for X10 any single board computer with a CM15 or a CM11 coupled with a TM751 and Heyu or Mochad will provide most if not all of the features of the WM100 including the transmission of RF codes without the reliance of 3rd party servers. The added benefit of course will be the ability to address your X10 system directly remotely should you need to.
To take it a step further, it gives you the ability to add further elements of home automation on top of your X10 and have them talk to each other still without the need for 3rd party servers or the cloud.
Do X10 users need another plastic box introduced to the mix that forces you to rely on 3rd parties for functionality.
Currently the WM100 is extremely limited as far as automation is concerned we are being held back by the developer.
Currently the WM100 is not much more then a simple timer controller that you can access with your phone.
The hardware is far superior to any X10 controller currently available. True you can do anything this can do with a SBC and another old x10 interface. However if you had issues with PLC this unit blasts a much stronger signal.
The memory on board is far greater then the cm15 though currently not even being scratched as far as usefulness.
It is possible to have this device talk to other wi-fi connected hubs or devices, so conceivably this is simular (or could be) to my Pi imbedded CM15 (without the RF)
I don't see any potential manufacturer investing time and resources into developing an alternative new generation X10 controller so I imagine an organic solution from within the X10 community will be the solution. I imagine as appliances and controllers are going off line they are not being replaced by their owners.
If the WM100 producer liaised a little more with its user base directly via forums like this they may actually get a clearer picture of what users require from their product.
Personally I would have no use for the WM100 (319mhz) but I do have a TIP10RF (425mhz) an Ethernet based solution with an Apple/Android client sitting on the desk unplugged. The reason being is that the CM11/CM15 will do all it can and more via the Raspberry Pi and the relevant home automation software.
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If the WM100 producer liaised a little more with its user base directly via forums like this they may actually get a clearer picture of what users require from their product.
From my communications with different people at Authinx I believe they all understand what users are looking for in a controller.
They are all frustrated with the developers slow progress on the software.
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Personally I would have no use for the WM100 (319mhz) but I do have a TIP10RF (425mhz)
The WM100 is WiFi-to-PLC - there's no 310MHz (nor your mistaken 319mhz) involved.
The TIP10RF is WiFi-to-434MHz RF and needs an RF-to-PLC transceiver.
The major advantage of the WM100 is the strength of its PLC which is about 30Vpp or about 10x the legal limit in Europe (there is no limit on PLC in the US). Aside from Jeff Volp's XTB products there are no other PLC transmitters with PLC levels greater than 10Vpp. Higher PLC levels are needed to cope with the multitude of noise makers and signal suckers in use today. X10 seems to be disappearing in Europe - probably because of the limits on PLC level.
Given that Jeff is retiring his XTB products the WM100 becomes even more attractive. It would be nice if its inherent but unused capabilities were available.
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My system has expanded beyond the mini timer. Still have one with the slider bar and buttons.
My system was functional with AHP, but the hardware and lack of support to modern computing devices, has left it less than optimal.
Maybe Jeff is right. I probably need Stargate or Ocelot. What I don't need is a third party web server determining when I can use my WM100. I've reported 2 outages in the last 7 days which are frustrating.
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My opinion is the developer is milking Authinx there is no reason a simple time issue should take months to fix nor for it to be half baked when released.
I totally agree here! In the early stages of XTB product release I tried to deal with any problems ASAP. In one case I even purchased a RCS X10 thermostat to track down a subtle problem:
XTB-523 V1.03 - Extended digital input sampling to accommodate delayed input from RCS thermostats 01/01/14
I find it incredible that after years of development the WM100 is just a fancy timer that can be accessed remotely.
Tuicemen is right about a project like this being a community effort. I don't think any of us have the skills to undertake the entire project. A product is the sum of its parts. Many of us have expertise in specialized areas that would be needed. But we would need a schematic of the unit first to understand the hardware well enough so we can develop firmware to run it. I see this as a project to help Authinx bring the WM100 to its full capability.
Jeff
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Given that Jeff is retiring his XTB products the WM100 becomes even more attractive.
I just bit the bullet on one final order of the XTB-III PCB, which is used for both versions of the XTB-IIR+ that can pump out over 35V into a 5 ohm load on both phases.
The WM100 delivered 30Vpp totally unloaded, 21Vpp with a Maxi Controller plugged into the same output, and 15Vpp with a 5 ohm load (4.7uF in series with 4.7 ohm carbon composition resistor). The Maxi Controller didn't even deliver 5Vpp into that 5 ohm load.
Jeff
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Maybe Jeff is right. I probably need Stargate or Ocelot. What I don't need is a third party web server determining when I can use my WM100.
But how on Earth could that possibly be avoided? Is there an electrical grid, phone system, or... even this very forum that is NOT completely dependent on Internet servers?!?!?
And before we get into the long-beard, old-man spiel about what used-to-could.... no one lives in the past. We can't build a set-up on what was. We only have what is. And that applies to a lot more than just home automation. Fortunately.... what is.. is better than was even imaginable just mere months ago. I will not go back to a space-commander (Zenith) clicker.... and I will not retreat to push-button remote control of a few dimmable lights.
It's true. Computers, real Artificial Intelligence, cloud connectivity and cloud management are all recent developments that has occurred WAY past my formative years. But even an old geezer like myself can grow and adapt. And if I can.... why can't everyone else here. The cloud has so very much to offer home automation. How can people turn their backs on this?
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Is there an electrical grid, phone system, or... even this very forum that is NOT completely dependent on Internet servers?!?!?
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The cloud has so very much to offer home automation. How can people turn their backs on this?
Easy... All I need is electricity for my house to be fully automated. If there is no electricity, there isn't much need for automation either.
Tuicemen helped me set up Alexa for X10 control. It was pretty neat, but I found that we didn't really use it other than to demonstrate its capability to others. Palmpads are more convenient and faster. And they can trigger complex macros that run on the Ocelot without any support from "The Cloud".
Jeff
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My home network is way more consistent than my internet. My camera system works independent of the net, shouldn't my x10 do the same?
I'm very rural and used dialup to feed 3 PCs until fairly recently. Maybe if I had a cable net connection, I'd feel differently.
This last deluge to hit southern Ohio has wiped out my dish, OTA TV, and my internet sporadically. Cell reception here isn't great. The less dependent on these "utilities" I am, the better.
When I first moved here, the electric feeders weren't that great, and I could never keep the clock on my VCR set.
My CM15a, and to a lesser extent my Radio Shack x10 timer, kept everything functional due to battery backup.
I'd still use the timer, but its limited to 8 sequential channels on the same HC.
There are 12 UCHCs in my living room alone. 11 have multiple timers.
I've got cm15s functioning on win10 and some patches, but lifejacket uses a dotnet I can't run on xp. It's a bandaid.
I just want something that isn't a step backwards from what I had 10 years ago. To me, the cloud/Willie 100 is that, but it doesn't have to be. There's potential, but its locked away. Give us the keys -- not crumbs.
I rarely keep any computer in a constant on state, but now use 7 droid based units 24/7.
A webpage interface should have been a higher priority than a dedicated app IMHO. This would allow more devices to access the system. This proprietary app will become obsolete on my older devices. A web interface can also be accessed without accessing the internet. I have a substantial intranet infrastructure. I have cams aimed at the neighbors homes, and they can access those by logging into one of my wifi systems.
We've been wishing since December of 2013, and have very little more than 4 of my ca. 1986 timers duct tape to palmpads.
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It's of very little use posting this here, but we need full 256 access, and addons units that communicate with the willie.
RF, open collectors, temperature. We don't need a PRO unit. Just make addon units. Can this crap with using a web server to make them talk, it's not necessary.
I'm not saying can the netserver, just don't make it a requirement. To this, we can add voice control and everything nice.
The cart was put ahead of the horse on this.
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http://www.appdig.com/ocelot.html (http://www.appdig.com/ocelot.html)
About 20 years ago, I came across the CPU-XA, bought one and reviewed it favorably on Usenet's comp.home.automation. Shortly thereafter, ADI contacted me to thank me for the review and let me know that they were replacing the CPU-XA with the Ocelot. They sent me an Ocelot when it was available and I reviewed it. I also pointed out a few issues with their implementaion of X10 which they corrected. They sent me a Leopard when that was introduced and I also gave it a positive review.
The Ocelot is still hard to beat, especially when paired with the XTB-523 although there may a bit of a learning curve in that it uses ladder logic which is a bit obscure these days.
Finally, it is easy enough to add control via the Internet if desired.
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The cm15a, although poorly built, would still be viable had it not been due to the recklessness of the previous programmers and the previous incarnation of the company we call x10.
Last I checked, Alibaba was a Chinese based company and our country's relationship with that country is strained right now.
I don't care about global politics where my home automation is concerned, and sure as hell dont need to worry about a server being pulled in an attempt to retaliate for some action pulled that's above my pay grade.
I'm an isolationist in regard to my HA, and will open up my access as I see fit.
With the current setup, I have lost this aspect of control.
My initial review calls the WM100 a fancy remote control, and I'm still disappointed it has remained so.
I can't blame Authinex for this mistake, as they're in a learning state, but can suggest improvements and hope they listen.
To ignore the user base posting here would be reckless in the same vein as X10WTI.
X10 isn't necessarily a proprietary technology, and there are still options, but expense is a drawback.
A+ for the new company in its hardware attempts for quality.
D- for software (at this point)
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Maybe Jeff is right. I probably need Stargate or Ocelot.
Take a peek at Homeseer 3.0 or one of the Homeseer dedicated controllers. https://homeseer.com/ Also check out the plug-ins for the software. Not cloud dependent. Drop down, and drag and drop "Event" creation with complex conditionals. Interfaces with Alexa or Gargle. Can be configured as a server. Create custom, highly detailed, screens for tablet based touch panels or phone with the additional "Designer" software. It is really pretty neat. My biggest gripes are: 1. when Homeseer 1.0 came out, X10 was the only remote control interface. Homeseer would not exist if not for X10. But they have abandoned support for X10 in favor of Z-Wave and the cloud/hub based devices. 2. Cost. I think HS3 and especially HS3 Pro are way overpriced. But they do have periodic sales.
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…….. All I need is electricity for my house to be fully automated.
Tuicemen helped me set up Alexa for X10 control. It was pretty neat, but I found that we didn't really use it other than to demonstrate its capability to others. Palmpads are more convenient and faster.
So how do you get your palmpads to tell you whats on TV, Who made what movies (or what movies feature what actors), what time rain is expected, how many days till Christmas, play your music, help you select a side dish with dinner, etc.???
Lighting is a very small part of most peoples lives. And now-a-days.... with 7 watt LED light bulbs why even bother to ever turn the light off? I mean.... talk about penny's a day!
It doesn't bother ME... if you chose to limit your automation setup to lighting control. But there is so much more that can be done with this stuff. I guess it is fair to call lighting control... home automation. But by todays standards... I really think most people expect more.
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The cloud has so very much to offer home automation. How can people turn their backs on this?
I can if the HA is cloud dependent.
Big storm last night (you got it also) and cable provided Internet and phone went down last night around 9PM and did not come back until 12 hours later. If we had a home full of WiFi lights and appliances driven by Alexa, all home automation action would stop. I know on the table lamp there is a little black key thing, but I can't remember if it gets turned, or pushed in.
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Take a peek at Homeseer
.. Cost. I think HS3 and especially HS3 Pro are way overpriced. But they do have periodic sales.
I use Homeseer. It works. It is everything it needs to be.... except X10 is no longer fully embraced by Homeseer. I don't like knowing that my X10 is only supported by a volunteer (although he IS an exception individual).
Currently... there is no perfect solution.
I decided.... that trying to keep the old setup the same as in-the-old-days... would be an old warrors mistake. We can't fight yesterdays battles (those days are past). I decided that I needed to re-imagine my setup and build something new. This isn't easy... but I believe it is the only way forward. Everything else is struggling with the past.
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... if the HA is cloud dependent.
Big storm last night......
Yes we all have storms. But short of a power failure... even cloud serviced setups work just fine with local control.. mine does.
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I think the general consensus is that the cloud is fine as an ancillary, we just dont want to have to depend on it.
I'd be up ____ creek if I counted on the cloud to turn on my tv.
I wouldn't want my thermostat sending temperature readings through the cloud to tell my HVAC what to do either. Now if I could use the cloud to change its settings, that would be fine.
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And I do occasionally use the cloud to set my dvr.
Think about this: my data is unlimited, but after 22gigs, I get throttled. I see no need for x10 commands to add bytes to this limit. I have a 3 day old grandson in the NICU at Cincinnati and can think of way better uses for the datum.
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So how do you get your palmpads to tell you whats on TV, Who made what movies (or what movies feature what actors), what time rain is expected, how many days till Christmas, play your music, help you select a side dish with dinner, etc.???
In my mind there is a difference between home automation and entertainment. We still get the TV guide in the mail to know what is on and when. Our Tivo takes care of anything that we might want to watch. If it can't access the web we can program it manually. To watch something that was on TV, we just scan through what is stored on the Tivo. No web access is needed. Sometimes it bitches about having lost web access, but the programs are still there.
We do need web access for Netflix steaming, but there is a much better selection that arrives in our mailbox twice a week. And then there is our library of hundreds of DVDs if we ever have time to watch them.
Rain? Ha! We live in the desert, and often go months without a drop. That's why irrigation is so important. TV news still carries the weather, but I do check NOAA when scheduling a hike. We have a calendar on the refrigerator that has our commitments for the month written in. My music is on CDs or flash drives, but Cathy does listen to Pandora on Alexa. That can be a problem because there have been several times that Alexa couldn't access the web.
Cathy also takes care of our meals without needing web access. Most recipes were copied from cookbooks or magazines that she subscribes to, but some were printed from the web. In spite of getting her a tablet so she could access her recipes electronically, she still prefers paper copies.
Lighting is a very small part of most peoples lives. And now-a-days.... with 7 watt LED light bulbs why even bother to ever turn the light off?
Even with LED lighting, it does add up with all the ceiling cans and landscape lighting. And lighting levels have to vary depending on what activities are going on. Who would want their house all lit up when they were trying to sleep?
Now what I DO use the web for is news, ordering stuff, customer support, and helping other X10 users.
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I wouldn't want my thermostat sending temperature readings through the cloud to tell my HVAC what to do either.
You HAVE to realize... it doesn't work that way. Anything that can use the Internet via your router... will use the router for LOCAL control... when you are local.
Now if I could use the cloud to change its settings, that would be fine.
Yeah... if your in a area of the home not easily accessible to the your thermostat you could make your HVAC changes from your phone.... or merely tell a digital assistant (Alexa or google). And that would remain local.... staying within your routers firewall. But say it's 10 below zero... and you get stuck out of town... your could dial the heat back... via secure cloud settings.
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You HAVE to realize... it doesn't work that way. Anything that can use the Internet via your router... will use the router for LOCAL control... when you are local.
And you have to realize that's not how the WM100 works, which is why it's a clunker.
That quote is kind of the point of this entire discussion.
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Disconnect your cable line, but leave the router on. Try to use the WM100.
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In my mind there is a difference between home automation and entertainment...
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Well that's great. I thought that very same thing... not all that long ago. But there has been a paradigm shift in the last few months. And whereas your opinion is as valued and respected as they come.... neither your, mine, or the total sum of all the old geezers on this forum carry any measurable weight..... when compared to the 50 MILLION new AI Home Automation users.... and product purchasers.
The old paradigm's melt as quickly as ice cream on a hot day. And AI is now absolutely a huge part of Home Automation... especially the parts linked with everyday activities and entertainment. That... is where the market place is. Those 50 MILLION Alexa users are the people buying products TODAY to use in their Automation setups. If you're selling product to this new current market of AI HA users.... business is good. But honestly... I don't understand how you could market products you don't use or see value in.
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Disconnect your cable line, but leave the router on. Try to use the WM100.
Your kidding me. I had no idea X10 would be that inept. There was some cable line upgrade/construction this past summer. Several times cable was out briefly. Never did I lose any of my major automation functions. I guess I just assumed the WM-100 continued to work as well.
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Um, Dave, this is what we've been pursuing since day 1.
It just won't work without routing all its commands through an Alibaba server.
There's absolutely nothing local about it. When my net goes out, so does the WM100. I can be on the same wifi and it doesn't work.
That server went down early last week. My X10 wifi went with if. Was connected to the same wifi and internet connection. Nothing worked due to a problem in California.
I'm not saying to ditch the cloud connection, just don't make it the primary means of communication.
For every command to the willie, a piece of data goes out and another comes in. Nothing happens behind the firewall(s).
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Which leaves another slight concern for those who are paranoid.
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......And you have to realize that's not how the WM100 works, which is why it's a clunker.
That quote is kind of the point of this entire discussion.
No. I was under the impression that most of this discussion was about "fixing" the WM-100. And what I've been screaming all along is... the WM-100 was created/made without a vision for the future. It doesn't matter the skill level or design abilities of foreign manufactures.... or the big brains here at the forum. The quality of future technology products will determined by the vision of it's use. Turning lights on and off.... are a fractional part of HA use... even today. I can't imagine how remote control of lights will become more important... in the future. And the future of Home Automation, and virtually almost everything else in modern life... is dependent on the cloud.
Before the WM-100 gets fixed.... it needs a vision to model it's re-creation/re-design. We already know what a WM-100 without a future vision looks like.
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Which leaves another slight concern for those who are paranoid.
There are countless human failing and illnesses. I don't know of ANY (with maybe the exception of amputation) :) that are cured with Home Automation products.
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You HAVE to realize... it doesn't work that way. Anything that can use the Internet via your router... will use the router for LOCAL control... when you are local.
Not every thing Yeah... if your in a area of the home not easily accessible to the your thermostat you could make your HVAC changes from your phone.... or merely tell a digital assistant (Alexa or google). And that would remain local....
Alexa nor Google will work if the internet is down you can't do local control via an assistant. At least they don't in either of my places. ::) :'
The discussion is not about fixing the WM100, the hardware is fine!
What we're looking at doing is expanding on the software which given the developers stance will require a complete redo.
In order to do that we need to understand the inner workings of the Willie
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I got up this morning (early) with the idea of testing my WM-100. And sure enough... it is totally cloud dependent. I had no idea it had no local control.
It should have local control.
That said.... WTF is with the deal that it doesn't have a Alexa skill? It has a wifi connection, and a server. They could have introduced the WM-100 with a Amazon skill and had access to 39 MILLION AI users. Thousands of the those users are already X10 customers.... many have visited this forum and many other Home Automation forums looking for an X10-AI solution. I've read MANY of the posts. Is X10 TRYING to limit thier customer base?
This is so stupid. A cloud based device that doesn't exploit the advanages of using the cloud. And the solution being offered.... is taking it off the cloud? Are you kidding me? Why not begin with just exploiting the server use... and then point the WM-100 to another server? Then mimic everything and make changes via server provided updates.
Don't take this wrong. It sucks big time that many rural HA users are limited by their lack of quality Internet connectivity. But that problem ain't going to be fixed by government action. The federal government has done what it does best about such things.... it made empty promises. I don't think that many remote Internet users world-wide... can push their square peg in the same round hole the rest of us use. They require different solutions. But don't forget... those remote users are the few.... and not the bulk of the customer base.
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It should have local control.
This is so stupid. A cloud based device that doesn't exploit the advanages of using the cloud. And the solution being offered.... is taking it off the cloud? Are you kidding me? Why not begin with just exploiting the server use... and then point the WM-100 to another server? Then mimic everything and make changes via server provided updates.
The solution being offered to take it off the cloud is just one possible option only and may never materialize.
There are a few ways to go about getting local control and we may be able to still use the existing cloud server.
I believe a cloud server will still be required to open this to the masses and Authinx may be convinced to take that on if we can't make use of the existing one.
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This is so stupid. A cloud based device that doesn't exploit the advanages of using the cloud. And the solution being offered.... is taking it off the cloud? Are you kidding me? Why not begin with just exploiting the server use... and then point the WM-100 to another server? Then mimic everything and make changes via server provided updates.
I NEVER said it should not support the cloud. My point is that it should be able to provide basic functionality without having to rely on the cloud. There was a long list of features that we created back when it was introduced that we hoped the developer would add. Obviously, that ain't gonna happen.
Since the developer is refusing to provide information necessary for us to add those features ourselves, the only option is to take the developer out of the picture and roll our own firmware/software that includes the features we wanted. I have always said that should include WiFi, but it should be implemented so the cloud is ONLY necessary to provide features that REQUIRE cloud access.
Jeff
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I think I'm also approaching the same twilight as the XTB line - were I not, I'd opt for replacing the daughterboard holding all the above with one holding an RPi Zero W plus RTC. That's also complicated since it requires disassembly, desoldering and soldering. Rather than mess with the (already messy) RPi options bandied about recently, I'd create something resembling a clean sheet using the BBC Basic compiler available for Raspian as well as most mobile platforms.
I won't be doing this as it appears that BBC Basic doesn't run on Zeros.
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I imagine something like Python would be an ideal candidate. Probably not No 1 choice of programming language here but certainly very capable for a project like this on the Raspberry Pi if that was the chosen route.
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I NEVER said it should not support the cloud. My point is that it should be able to provide basic functionality without having to rely on the cloud.
Sorry for any misunderstanding Jeff. I would think cloud connectivity would be the basic... with the limited local control as backwards compatible (no offense to knightrider).
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A server doesn't need to be in the cloud to be successful. True, these are much more powerful Computers then you or I have (in most cases) However I have had several servers running over the last few years handling my own personal automation.
That's the part that keeps getting missed in these threads. I (we?) want all this in house, with remote access as an option, but NOT required.
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I imagine something like Python would be an ideal candidate.
I suspect I'm probably too old to try learning a new programming language even though I do have a copy of a book titled Learn Python in one day and Learn It Well. I keep dozing off after a few pages so it will likely take me months to get through it.
Also, I have no need for the WM100 so can't see spending $110 for one to play with.
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A server doesn't need to be in the cloud to be successful. True, these are much more powerful Computers then you or I have (in most cases) However I have had several servers running over the last few years handling my own personal automation.
That's the part that keeps getting missed in these threads. I (we?) want all this in house, with remote access as an option, but NOT required.
100% agree. I thought this was how it worked. Shame on me for assuming!
As I mentioned before, my TP-Link bulbs and plugs work locally, with an option (per unit) for remote access.
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I imagine something like Python would be an ideal candidate.
I suspect I'm probably too old to try learning a new programming language even though I do have a copy of a book titled Learn Python in one day and Learn It Well. I keep dozing off after a few pages so it will likely take me months to get through it.
Also, I have no need for the WM100 so can't see spending $110 for one to play with.
The English language like construction of Python should give anyone who is coming to programming for the first time a fighting chance to learn it.
Even if I could use a WM100(incorrect frequency for Europe) like yourself I'd have no need for it but it does appear to be not fit for purpose. Whatever about it's physical construction it seems to be seriously lacking in a lot of basic areas.
WM100 owners appear to be a very patient species from my reading of their posts. The purchase price of the unit isn't exactly small change either.
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That's the part that keeps getting missed in these threads. I (we?) want all this in house, with remote access as an option, but NOT required.
You can't do that! Modern/current Home Automation includes AI capabilities. That requires considerable information and server processing which is ONLY available using the cloud. Vast amounts of the things we don't think about as being cloud are... or are quickly becoming cloud dependent. The cloud and the Internet are quickly becoming almost interchangeable words.
Anything LESS-than cloud.... is limited access.
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.. my TP-Link bulbs and plugs work locally, with an option (per unit) for remote access.
There are many users here with experience that pre-dates things like the Internet and home computers. Back in those days.... having a remote control with a bunch of buttons that allowed a home owner to turn lights On and Off... and even dim lights.... well that was pretty darn slick.
But that was a very long time ago.
Whereas controlling a few lights with a remote control 40+ years ago was certainly considered home automation..... a 25" TV connected to a quality VCR and a stereo was also considered a Home Theater. Times have changed. Running a PC 24/7 to get more advanced home automation (called a smart home) was a sure sign that things had changed. But even that occurred 20 years ago.
Sure... everything needs some sort of manual over-ride. But limited control of lights... is hardly considered home automation.... today.
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Anything LESS-than cloud.... is limited access.
Fine with me. And apparently everyone else posting on this thread. Have you noticed you're in a World of One on that point?
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Anything LESS-than cloud.... is limited access.
We had NO access today. Internet and cable went out about 11AM and is finally back now (8:30PM). No Alexa. Cathy used the RADIO. Our home automation didn't even have a hiccup. The WM100 couldn't be accessed, but Palmpads still worked fine.
Jeff
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Fine with me. And apparently everyone else posting on this thread. Have you noticed you're in a World of One on that point?
Correct is NOT about polling well (it never has been). I care deeply about X10.... AND it's survival. Currently... Home Automation is in a "golden age". There are a ton of new Home Automation products/protocols/accessories/ideas. Such a golden age... rarely happens with any product. The advent of Amazon's involvement with Alexa, Apple with Siri, Microsoft with Cortana, and other new cloud based products like Ring..... has created a ONCE IN A LIFETIME opportunity. Not just for us dedicated home automation users... but even more so... for company's like X10.
I like these guys here at the forum! But science tells us... that old men develop rock-hard paradigms. I fully understand that many of these great guys... can NOT break their mental image of Home Automation being just a way to remote control lights.
But affection for the members of this forum doesn't NOT affect the mathematics of this new age of automation. Amazon has sold in the USA alone... 39 MILLION echo/Alexa AI units.
If X10 misses this opportunity to stay relevant in this exploding Home Automation industry... there won't be an X10 forum for me to be "a World of One" on. I've seen the X10 doors slam shut once before. I'd like to see X10 continue.
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Anything LESS-than cloud.... is limited access.
We had NO access today. Internet and cable went out...… Cathy used the RADIO.
So.... are you saying we should limit our homes to 1920's (radio) technologies? What if you would have lost electric? Then what? I have a generator... but I am always a bit concerned about the quality of the electric it produces. But I always retain a backwards compatibility. Even if I lose power... I have smartphones.. so I don't lose the Internet.
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I fully understand that many of these great guys... can NOT break their mental image of Home Automation being just a way to remote control lights.
Here in the desert irrigation is far more important than lighting. Lighting is just a convenience. It would be a real pain to try to handle irrigation without automation. As I have described before, our irrigation uses month and temperature to determine how much to irrigate. Most of our yard is just 3 inches of topsoil over a lava flow, so proper irrigation is VERY important. Many homes up here on the ridge over irrigate, with water running down the gutters in the morning. I tried to find that sweet spot that keeps plants healthy with no waste. And I don't need the cloud to do it.
Jeff
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So.... are you saying we should limit our homes to 1920's (radio) technologies?
Obviously you are one of the folks who can't live without the cloud. Some of us prefer older more reliable technologies. I drive a 1979 280ZX that doesn't even have power steering. And if I can find the parts, I can fix just about anything in it myself.
Jeff
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Obviously you are one of the folks who can't live without the cloud.
Yes... I do live in America! My retirement, my banking, my healthcare, my local emergency services, my doctor's office, the hospital down the street, and even my utility services... are all cloud based. Virtually... my life (as well as yours) is dependent on "the cloud" technology.
Some of us prefer older more reliable technologies. I drive a 1979 280ZX that doesn't even have power steering. And if I can find the parts, I can fix just about anything in it myself.
Yeah... nothing wrong with old technologies. Everything has it's place. I am cyclist myself... and have restored many old (pre-1970's) bicycles. But my Home Automation Hobby... like millions of others (most of who have only recently discovered Home Automation)… is about cutting edge tech.
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But affection for the members of this forum doesn't NOT affect the mathematics of this new age of automation. Amazon has sold in the USA alone...39 MILLION echo/Alexa AI units.
I for one am a bit tired of your incessant promotion of the JeffBox. It's getting offensive and making me wonder how much of a sales commission you get from them. If I ran this forum, I would probably censor those words so they would not appear here.
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I tried to find that sweet spot that keeps plants healthy with no waste. And I don't need the cloud to do it.
Who was that member here (no longer posts)
that always posted I don't need that and I don't use it. . If I remember correctly.... he didn't want anything to do with computer controlled automation. He mostly used X10 for Christmas lighting.
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I for one am a bit tired of your incessant promotion of the JeffBox. It's getting offensive and making me wonder how much of a sales commission you get from them. If I ran this forum, I would probably censor those words so they would not appear here.
You'll want to ask Tuicemen about getting such privileges added to your account. But all of us here who do have such "censor privileges" (like myself) practice restraint.
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Methinks we need to calm down. I started this one, and I think it's time to put the brakes on it.