X10 Community Forum

💬General Category => Mac/Linux & Open Source and the X10 Home => Raspberry Pi, Arduino & other SBC => Topic started by: petera on September 10, 2018, 05:42:51 PM

Title: HomeGenie author has resurfaced on GitHub
Post by: petera on September 10, 2018, 05:42:51 PM
For anyone interested or have any technical queries the HomeGenie author has resurfaced on HomeGenie GitHub answering queries. Looks promising.
Title: Re: HomeGenie author has resurfaced on GitHub
Post by: Tuicemen on September 10, 2018, 06:27:22 PM
I had noticed that too. It does look promising :)% :)% however time will tell if this results in an update.
Title: Re: HomeGenie author has resurfaced on GitHub
Post by: petera on September 10, 2018, 06:38:44 PM
I had noticed that too. It does look promising :)% :)% however time will tell if this results in an update.

I'll keep a cursory eye on the GitHub but I've moved on with Home Assistant so I doubt I'll be doing much development on the HomeGenie platform anytime soon.
Title: Re: HomeGenie author has resurfaced on GitHub
Post by: Tuicemen on September 20, 2018, 08:06:58 AM
Just went through the pull requests for HomeGenie and Gene has posted a new release is coming though it will be small.
https://github.com/genielabs/HomeGenie/pull/326#issuecomment-419930496.
It may be worth posting any bugs users have uncovered so these get looked into.
As well suggestions for additional options though those may not get added this time around they will get put on Gene's radar. ::) :'
https://github.com/genielabs/HomeGenie/issues
Title: Re: HomeGenie author has resurfaced on GitHub
Post by: petera on September 20, 2018, 09:33:05 AM
Just went through the pull requests for HomeGenie and Gene has posted a new release is coming though it will be small.
https://github.com/genielabs/HomeGenie/pull/326#issuecomment-419930496.
It may be worth posting any bugs users have uncovered so these get looked into.
As well suggestions for additional options though those may not get added this time around they will get put on Gene's radar. ::) :'
https://github.com/genielabs/HomeGenie/issues

Yes he stated a whike back that Homegenie was a finished product and he planned on developing something new. From what he says there it looks like that's well underway.

He was very restricted in the environment he was using to further develop Homegenie so it looks like he started from scratch. Not an easy decision for anyone but it makes a lot of sense.

Mono dependency comes at a price and you're at the mercy of a 3rd party. I had to manually build Mono on a number of occasions just to get certain Homegenie features working. Mono development is not always in parallel with the .Net Framework.

I never used Homegenie on the Windows platform, purely on a Raspberry Pi and Bounz who is a Windows man has gotten caught up with packaging methods rather than concentrating on new features. Maybe Gene was right and it is a completed product.

Purely as a platform for X10 it's fine in its current format and with a bit of work you can build a fairly credible home automation setup around it. Combining macros, timers, cameras and notifications with all the other features AHP would never have offered it really would be a credible contender for X10 users.

Maybe you could spin a working downloadable image with a basic X10 layout already in place which would give potential users a fighting chance to get their heads around the Homegenie concept
Title: Re: HomeGenie author has resurfaced on GitHub
Post by: Tuicemen on September 20, 2018, 09:54:45 AM
Creating a working X10 HG image isn't a problem. I've done two. X10 users (at least those on this forum) are looking for plug and play solutions. Many aren't interested in playing with disk images and can't wrap there minds around a PI & the use of the terminal Window ::) :'
I'll wait to see what come out from Gene and may create a new image with that which boots directly to the HG web interface.

Bounz is also creating new HG installers for the PI using docker or Mono which I've had a chance to test early versions of.
 These still need some work but Docker installs seem to be popular with other PI software developers.
At least there is now some new developement on the HG front.
Title: Re: HomeGenie author has resurfaced on GitHub
Post by: petera on September 20, 2018, 10:55:43 AM
Docker installs can be quite restrictive and you are confined to what the docker creator provides for you. Remember Docker was designed around command line operations and forget about GUI usage which seems very important to forum members here.

I know HG is Web interface based but again there's a trade off with speed as you're working with an environment within an environment. How is logging going to be handled storage wise. A lot of questions need answering before I'd be convinced. Thats why I suggested a simple image of Raspbian with HG installed and already configured with some form of X10

There's so many packaging options out there and there's no single one better than the other. I've seen what you've attempted so far and to be honest it doesn't get much easier to install from your instructions. I think the issues run deeper than just packaging formats.

Maybe if you pretend that it's some form of secret Windows software that you've stumbled upon who knows what the take up might be  :)%
Title: Re: HomeGenie author has resurfaced on GitHub
Post by: bkenobi on September 20, 2018, 11:00:20 AM
Perhaps poeple could suggest that Gene create a RPi image if the product is complete.  He used to maintain an image early on, so it's not like he's incapable of doing so.  If I remember correctly, the image he used to provide had X10 already set up and a couple example modules installed.  Getting HG up and running was as simple as using Win32 Disk Imager (no install required) to flash an SD card, insert it into the RPi, turn it on, use HG.
Title: Re: HomeGenie author has resurfaced on GitHub
Post by: petera on September 20, 2018, 11:30:46 AM
Perhaps poeple could suggest that Gene create a RPi image if the product is complete.  He used to maintain an image early on, so it's not like he's incapable of doing so.  If I remember correctly, the image he used to provide had X10 already set up and a couple example modules installed.  Getting HG up and running was as simple as using Win32 Disk Imager (no install required) to flash an SD card, insert it into the RPi, turn it on, use HG.

Yes it was as easy as that and all the minor updates were carried out within the Homegenie application. Since his departure there really hasn't been any updates worth mentioning so a  Raspberry Pi image fixed at v526 would make most sense. There's enough information in the old forum to help those who are serious enough to use it.

I honestly don't think there will be any further enhancements to Homegenie so it will be entirely down to the individual user to apply their own individual touches to the application as I imagine any remaining users are doing now. A downloadable Raspberry Pi image would certainly be the best option in my opinion too.
Title: Re: HomeGenie author has resurfaced on GitHub
Post by: Tuicemen on September 20, 2018, 11:59:56 AM
Gene has marked things I posted as enhancements and or bugs given his commitment to this in the past I'm hopeful they get addressed.
From my experience user input of suggestions and or bug reports always got me motivated
As did how to questions as they often led to an additional option in my software.
When user input dries up the software development dies.
I've often though about using the USBlib drivers in my software so that may be something I dig into more and maybe convert one of my projects to work on a PI ::) :'
However since HG and many of the other Pi HA softwares available have some sort of end user program creating tool available of which the end result can be shared with other that may be the better way to go.
Title: Re: HomeGenie author has resurfaced on GitHub
Post by: petera on September 20, 2018, 12:52:01 PM
Gene has marked things I posted as enhancements and or bugs given his commitment to this in the past I'm hopeful they get addressed.
From my experience user input of suggestions and or bug reports always got me motivated
As did how to questions as they often led to an additional option in my software.
When user input dries up the software development dies.
I've often though about using the USBlib drivers in my software so that may be something I dig into more and maybe convert one of my projects to work on a PI ::) :'
However since HG and many of the other Pi HA softwares available have some sort of end user program creating tool available of which the end result can be shared with other that may be the better way to go.

I do hear you but much pleading was done at the time with Gene prior to his decision to pull down the old forum, fold up his tent and walk away from the Homegenie project. Yes he may well make a few Push requests on the GitHub as a result of a number user requests but I don't see anything major.

If you are truly committed to HG why don't you do a fork of the project yourself and add what you think may be of use to others and produce your own version for publication. You have all the necessary code available to do this on the GitHub.

You have your own X10 forum which would be an ideal platform to host a Homgenie section along the lines of the old forum with the emphasis on X10. The Homegenie Club just hasn't taken off like the old homegenie forum did.

He has tinkered with a Homegenie client but was advised at the time that would not be a money spinner either. I guess he has given that a rethink and a new Web Api announced by him sounds promising. In fairness to him he's a young guy trying to make a living in a world full of sharks.
Title: Re: HomeGenie author has resurfaced on GitHub
Post by: Tuicemen on September 22, 2018, 09:04:03 AM
Gene just released a new version of HG dropping the beta label and adding stable to 1.1-stable-527. :)%
I've not updated to this yet as it was just released. but this is promising.
Title: Re: HomeGenie author has resurfaced on GitHub
Post by: petera on September 22, 2018, 11:09:05 AM
Gene just released a new version of HG dropping the beta label and adding stable to 1.1-stable-527. :)%
I've not updated to this yet as it was just released. but this is promising.

I noticed that. Reckon he saw nothing really happening with the forked project so decided to give it a kick up the ass. Probably a tidy up of some outstanding issues. Iíll give it a spin next week just to see.
Title: Re: HomeGenie author has resurfaced on GitHub
Post by: Tuicemen on September 22, 2018, 11:35:42 AM
I attempted to do just an update from inside HG but I kept getting connection errors.
Posted an issue on github for this.

It may be best to do with a new SD then just rebuid HG from a backup for testing at least. I'll attempt this this weekend just to see how the install goes on a fresh raspbian stretch SD disk.
Title: Re: HomeGenie author has resurfaced on GitHub
Post by: petera on September 22, 2018, 01:30:16 PM
I attempted to do just an update from inside HG but I kept getting connection errors.
Posted an issue on github for this.

It may be best to do with a new SD then just rebuid HG from a backup for testing at least. I'll attempt this this weekend just to see how the install goes on a fresh raspbian stretch SD disk.

Havenít updated HG from inside the app in a long time. Easier to do a backup, stop the service from Terminal do a wget and a tar and restore the backup if necessary
Title: Re: HomeGenie author has resurfaced on GitHub
Post by: petera on September 22, 2018, 01:39:59 PM
Alternatively if anything goes wrong just follow this

- backup your configuration
- uninstall current hg with the command "dpkg --remove homegenie"
- completely remove the hg folder "sudo rm -rf /usr/local/bin/homegenie"
- install new rxxxx "sudo gdebi homegenie-beta_1.1.rxxx_all.deb"
- restore your backup


Title: Re: HomeGenie author has resurfaced on GitHub
Post by: Tuicemen on September 22, 2018, 04:20:48 PM
Thanks for the step by step. Gene has stated there were bugs in the beta restore even from a local file  the stable version fixes update from local but not the web.
I had a spare 16 gig SD card so I installed HG to it then restored HG from a back up and all went well!
I'll try your step by step on my other SD card and post how that went when I get a chance. >!
Title: Re: HomeGenie author has resurfaced on GitHub
Post by: Tuicemen on September 24, 2018, 10:30:08 AM
Ok did the step by setup uninstall reinstall and that part went without a hitch.
The restore however took 3 or 4 attempts to get everything loaded and working.
I do think this version loads a bit quicker but other then that I don't see any difference.
I like that the new version dropped the Beta tag, that stopped many from even trying a great HA software for X10.
Title: Re: HomeGenie author has resurfaced on GitHub
Post by: bkenobi on September 24, 2018, 11:38:58 AM
I am just guessing here, but last time Gene changed major version numbers updates did not work.  If he dropped the "beta", it may be considered a new major version.  Updating is pretty easy without that anyway.  As petra mentioned, updating via backup and restore is pretty easy anyway.
Title: Re: HomeGenie author has resurfaced on GitHub
Post by: petera on September 24, 2018, 12:21:30 PM
I am just guessing here, but last time Gene changed major version numbers updates did not work.  If he dropped the "beta", it may be considered a new major version.  Updating is pretty easy without that anyway.  As petra mentioned, updating via backup and restore is pretty easy anyway.

I think this is Genes way of bowing out gracefully with HG. Leave it as a final release. I stopped using the HG updater way back.

The backup/restore was always a little temperamental. I use to resolve it by updating Mono but it's a while since I seriously played around with HG. Also running HG in debug mode usually pinpointed the issue.

I mentioned the fact of a Gene release on the Homegenie Club forum but it has been noted that its far from stable.
Title: Re: HomeGenie author has resurfaced on GitHub
Post by: Tuicemen on September 24, 2018, 12:33:17 PM
No Software is completely stable there are always bugs that popup.
Doing a uninstall and then install followed by a restore is a bit of a pain  but not impossible.
Gene stated the update from file is now working with the latest version so if there is another release that option should work.

I think this is Genes way of bowing out gracefully with HG. Leave it as a final release.

I hope your wrong there as not all the bugs were fixed that were reported in 526.
I don't care about enhancements being added as if I need something extra there are workarrounds
Title: Re: HomeGenie author has resurfaced on GitHub
Post by: petera on September 24, 2018, 02:36:52 PM
No Software is completely stable there are always bugs that popup.
Doing a uninstall and then install followed by a restore is a bit of a pain  but not impossible.
Gene stated the update from file is now working with the latest version so if there is another release that option should work.

I think this is Genes way of bowing out gracefully with HG. Leave it as a final release.

I hope your wrong there as not all the bugs were fixed that were reported in 526.
I don't care about enhancements being added as if I need something extra there are workarrounds

The Beta/Stable is a real Linux thing. As there's no real commercial value to going stable a lot of projects remain in the Beta phase. In fact I've used more Betas that were a lot more stable than their Stable counterparts. I don't get too caught up in all that labelling.

Yes individual solutions are regularly applied to instabilities but I loved the community contributions to problems on the old forum.
Title: Re: HomeGenie author has resurfaced on GitHub
Post by: Tuicemen on September 24, 2018, 02:50:42 PM
The Beta/Stable is a real Linux thing. As there's no real commercial value to going stable a lot of projects remain in the Beta phase.
And that is why Linux has such a issue with attracting  newbies from Windows.

Stable to me means it runs without crashing and is dependable, Beta means your testing it and expect the unexpected, crashes are highly possible and the software isn't dependable for regular (daily) use.
Few Windows users wish to be testers or run a HA setup with software in the testing stage.
Title: Re: HomeGenie author has resurfaced on GitHub
Post by: petera on September 24, 2018, 04:14:48 PM
The Beta/Stable is a real Linux thing. As there's no real commercial value to going stable a lot of projects remain in the Beta phase.
And that is why Linux has such a issue with attracting  newbies from Windows.

Stable to me means it runs without crashing and is dependable, Beta means your testing it and expect the unexpected, crashes are highly possible and the software isn't dependable for regular (daily) use.
Few Windows users wish to be testers or run a HA setup with software in the testing stage.

Doesn't necessarily follow. I've seen so many BSOD screens from so called stable Windows software usually cured by so called "patches". That's for another days discussion though.
Title: Re: HomeGenie author has resurfaced on GitHub
Post by: Tuicemen on September 24, 2018, 04:20:27 PM
Doesn't necessarily follow. I've seen so many BSOD screens from so called stable Windows software usually cured by so called "patches". That's for another days discussion though.
True, the labels only reflects who tries the software. no label lets the end user decide if it is beta or stable but at least it is tried.
Title: Re: HomeGenie author has resurfaced on GitHub
Post by: bkenobi on September 24, 2018, 04:39:01 PM
I always assume a software that's provided as open source is going to be a work in progress.  It could be completely usable for my needs, but that doesn't mean there aren't areas that could use improvements.  HG has a complete X10 setup but there were other areas that were getting a lot of attention prior to Gene stepping away.  From memory, a lot of it was the scheduler and some of the related features.  I didn't use that stuff much since the old scheduler was already setup for me (albeit painfully).  I did switch over after he left and the new one is a lot better.
Title: Re: HomeGenie author has resurfaced on GitHub
Post by: Tuicemen on September 26, 2018, 02:19:51 PM
And another new version is out I guess Gene is back for a bit :)%
The beta tag is back too  ::) :'
Looks like it only fixes the HG updater
Title: Re: HomeGenie author has resurfaced on GitHub
Post by: Tuicemen on September 28, 2018, 08:41:18 AM
I loaded up the newest version of HG last night.
even though it was the latest version it did report a newer version was available which indicates the files it was comparing didn't exist doing the update fixed that.
v1.2-beta.2 (https://github.com/genielabs/HomeGenie/releases)
Title: Re: HomeGenie author has resurfaced on GitHub
Post by: Tuicemen on October 03, 2018, 06:51:41 PM
with Gene apparently having some extra time to now work on this  Now might be the time for end users to be posting issues. it would definitely show there is still lots of interest in his creation.
https://github.com/genielabs/HomeGenie/issues
Posting suggestions here also will get some interest and may even make it into a new release.

As a software developer myself I love to see posts expressing interest in my creations if nothing else it gets me motivated. ;)
 >!
Title: Re: HomeGenie author has resurfaced on GitHub
Post by: petera on October 04, 2018, 07:58:50 AM
with Gene apparently having some extra time to now work on this  Now might be the time for end users to be posting issues. it would definitely show there is still lots of interest in his creation.
https://github.com/genielabs/HomeGenie/issues
Posting suggestions here also will get some interest and may even make it into a new release.

As a software developer myself I love to see posts expressing interest in my creations if nothing else it gets me motivated. ;)
 >!

As I previously mentioned, HG wouldn't have a very big X10 user base. Even at its most popular phase X10 postings were fairly limited.

Just out of curiosity I tried X10 on as many Raspberry Pi based platforms as i could and had some very promising results. It didn't bother me too much that I had to install either Heyu or Mochad as a separate server on the same Pi to achieve this.

It was out of this experimentation I found Home Assistant to be the most versatile solution for me.

A lot of experienced Home Genie users are still lurking but in a lot of cases have since moved on to other platforms. Bounz who decided to fork the Home Genie project has now bowed out. This leaves the user base at the mercy of Gene, the original author.

By all means people can take the chance that the Home Genie project will come alive again, or they can start familiarising themselves with fully active alternatives.

I personally would not sell anyone on any particular solution owing to volatile nature of some of these platforms but I will suggest that you try a number of them and make your own choice of what suits best.
Title: Re: HomeGenie author has resurfaced on GitHub
Post by: Tuicemen on October 04, 2018, 08:37:50 AM
Quote
Bounz who decided to fork the Home Genie project has now bowed out. This leaves the user base at the mercy of Gene, the original author.
I don't believe Bounz has bowed out he has a new family  which is taking up a lot of his free time right now as new babies do. He is working on 2 new installers at the same time and one is hard enough to debug with out lots of feed back. To me there isn't enough difference between HGBE and HG to switch to BE

Quote
I personally would not sell anyone on any particular solution owing to volatile nature of some of these platforms but I will suggest that you try a number of them and make your own choice of what suits best.
I agree most of these different solutions support several different protocols and even allow end user creations to be shared and added on.
For now I like the look and feel of HG and it suits my current HA needs.
Title: Re: HomeGenie author has resurfaced on GitHub
Post by: petera on October 04, 2018, 12:49:52 PM
As can be seen from previous posts on this section of the forum @mike has gone the Domoticz route and @Iviper myself and a few others have gone the Home Assistant route.

I've no doubt that a few others have gone the Home Genie route but it would be helpful if Raspberry Pi users reported back their adventures on these platforms and we could keep it as generic as possible. This would generate more traffic and from that we could work out what may be best to invest our time and energy into

Maybe a section titled X10 on the Raspberry Pi where users of X10 could share their exploits may be the way forward. Of course the Raspberry Pi is not the only Single Board Computer out there but it could be a good starting point.

Strange to think there's a generation or two that have never even heard of X10 let alone used it.
Title: Re: HomeGenie author has resurfaced on GitHub
Post by: bkenobi on October 05, 2018, 01:50:20 PM
X10 isn't connected to the IoT trend.  Since it doesn't have WiFi, it's not cool like the other tech.
Title: Re: HomeGenie author has resurfaced on GitHub
Post by: Tuicemen on October 05, 2018, 02:19:14 PM
X10 isn't connected to the IoT trend.  Since it doesn't have WiFi, it's not cool like the other tech.
I remember early post of users complaining  of only 256 x10 devices in AHP. I wonder what users are going to complain about when they have 255 wifi HA devices?
Title: Re: HomeGenie author has resurfaced on GitHub
Post by: Knightrider on October 05, 2018, 05:07:27 PM
X10 isn't connected to the IoT trend.  Since it doesn't have WiFi, it's not cool like the other tech.
I remember early post of users complaining  of only 256 x10 devices in AHP. I wonder what users are going to complain about when they have 255 wifi HA devices?

Add another router. I have 192.168.0.xxx, 192.168.1.xxx, 192.168.10.xxx and 192.168.2.xxx
Title: Re: HomeGenie author has resurfaced on GitHub
Post by: Tuicemen on October 05, 2018, 05:13:20 PM

Add another router. I have 192.168.0.xxx, 192.168.1.xxx, 192.168.10.xxx and 192.168.2.xxx
and how does that affect your connection speed ? My high speed cable connection is already slower then my off grid Dsl connection and I only use one router at each place.
Title: Re: HomeGenie author has resurfaced on GitHub
Post by: Knightrider on October 05, 2018, 08:09:42 PM
Remember, I had dial-up at 28.8kbps until not very long ago. I can stream music and video over each network. Its fast enough for me.
Title: Re: HomeGenie author has resurfaced on GitHub
Post by: bkenobi on October 06, 2018, 05:47:35 PM
If you put all of your automation devices on a single router plugged into the primary one serving everything else, then you will not see any degradation in performance.  IoT devices don't take any bandwidth (unless we are talking network cameras).  If you have a 14.4 connection, you are screwed anyway.  I have slightly faster than a 14.4, so I'm going to be slightly ok when I get more IoT devices beyond that couple ESP's I've been playing with.