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ActiveHome Pro => ActiveHome Pro General => Topic started by: Tuicemen on September 16, 2018, 05:13:55 PM

Title: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
Post by: Tuicemen on September 16, 2018, 05:13:55 PM
 AHP is Dead! :(
Despite others & my attempts to revive this, extending its life utilizing AHP Lifejacket and playing with recovered code snippets this software is in my opinion, Dead!  :(
There is no way to update, Authinx lost all servers related to it as well as decent salvageable software code. :(
We thought the WM100 and created apps would replace this  but that has failed to materialize. :(
Despite the CM15A reputation of having poor RF, my CM15As continue to perform well (yes I have more then one in operation) however it has been ages since using AHP.
I first moved to third party software which others created as well as my own (Windows Based) then on to a PI and Linux software. I've yet to commit to a specific Pi HA software and there are a number of them, some more actively being developed then others.

With talk of a WM100 pro module I thought about a CM15 with an imbedded PI board which I manged to do with a PI Zero W board.
Authinx appeared interested in this at first & even supplied a working CM15A for me to experiment with. :)%
But is there really any interest in an improved CM15 with an embedded SBC like a PI?

And what about a Linux version of AHP? All the other software options have other protocols coded in or the ability to add in with a plugin.
AHP and the CM15 were ahead of their time sadly it didn't stay that way :(

I love my X10 Setup and wouldn't swap it for anything, though I have tried other protocols in the past and still have some in operation. These are mainly because X0 doesn't offer something comparable.
Should we be asking Authinx for an updated CM15 (more powerful) with a SBC embedded?
If so should it come preconfigured with X10 created software or allow users to choose their preferred Linux based software. ::) :'

The Authinx owner has always stated they wish to create things for the average X10 user first and expand to the power users later.
 My main question is who is the average X10 user? :o
it certainly isn't me! ::) :'
Is it someone happy with a glorified remote? After all that is all the WM100 is  right now using a smartphone.

Sorry for the soap box, questions and the rantings.
I'm use to progress moving forward and I'm currently more then just frustrated. :-[ :(
>!

Title: Re: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
Post by: JeffVolp on September 16, 2018, 07:34:14 PM
Sorry for the soap box, questions and the rantings.
I'm use to progress moving forward and I'm currently more then just frustrated.

I share your frustration with the WM100.  After 3 years of development I certainly expected more.  And it has taken months to have just the most obvious bugs addressed.  I can't believe a developer like that could still be in business.

Jeff
Title: Re: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
Post by: SkipWX10 on September 16, 2018, 08:32:00 PM
I agree that the WM100 is just a glorified remote receiver and the software makes my phone a glorified remote. Once I got over the 'newness' factor, I hardly use it anymore. Since I can't trust the time sync or server reliability, it will never replace my CM15a (or even have any timed events on it actually)

I LOVE my CM15a setup, although I am not even close to a power user. It basically runs lights and there are a few macros that I use intermittently. I have my downloaded software (from ??, somewhere in Europe IIRC) that I now run on a Win8 computer running classic shell, so the GUI is still the same as the XP machine it used to run on, and a city list xml I got from somewhere else in 2008...

Would I love to have a pure, new software load and updates on a regular basis....sure. Would I love to have a new CM15a with more power and great reliability, along with WiFi capabilities, etc....sure.  Am I going to jump ship to another protocol any time soon....no.
Title: Re: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
Post by: Knightrider on September 16, 2018, 09:18:23 PM
Bite the bullet and buy the code for the willie. Either that, or dump it.

We dont need a pro unit on the WM100,  but if you could come up with an RF unit that works in unison with the WM, I'd drop money on it. The caveat would be I'd demand a single app to run them both.

If you could then go to phase three and make units with sensors (temp, lux, humidity, etc) we'd be back on track.

Buy the damned code and give it to a developer in North America that actually uses this stuff. Better yet, give us an SDK so us hobbyists who care more about it than the pros can make this work the way it should.

I have a few android apps under my belt, they're not hateful to write.
Title: Re: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
Post by: HA Dave on September 16, 2018, 09:40:35 PM

The Authinx owner has always stated they wish to create things for the average X10 user first and expand to the power users later.
 My main question is who is the average X10 user? :o
it certainly isn't me!

Sorry for the soap box, questions and the rantings.
I'm use to progress moving forward and I'm currently more then just frustrated. :-[ :(
>!

I think most of us here share in this frustration. And I'd guess that none of us are "average" X10 users.

av·er·age
noun
A number expressing the central or typical value in a set of data, in particular the mode, median, or (most commonly) the mean, which is calculated by dividing the sum of the values in the set by their number.


From the many thousands of posts on these forums (and I've read almost everyone of them)…. I would bet a pay check (if I still got those) that most current X10 users have a setup that solved a particular problem. Some I can remember off the top of my head are:

Holiday lights X10 turns them On and Off saving power and giving the illusion of the residents being home. I'd guess that most of us also use X10 that way too.

The light switch is downstairs... so a simple X10 transceiver allows for a light downstairs that can be turned off from the bedroom upstairs.

A similar problem/fix is the patio light downstairs... yet the bedroom window is upstairs above the patio. (Again X10 controlled lights downstairs and a remote up).

Few people build elaborate set-ups... IMHO. I know I sorta got addicted to automation and have tried to make my home as smart as I can. I have NO PROBLEM... incorporating any brand/flavor/type/method or product into my smart home (I even have a clapper somewhere). I currently use two CM15A's.... one serves as just a interface for my Homeseer Hometroller. The other holds 3 (I think) macros... and runs free-standing (with no PC connection). I also use 2 other hubs (with cloud based solutions) and 3 Amazon Echo devices. Along with numerous automation apps on my iphone.

I'd just guess (again IMHO) that anyone that searched the internet... and tolerated the old X10's, pop-up and soft-porn ads.... has noticed the recent proliferation of Home Automation products as well as the Alexa and Google devices. And... with about 1 out of every 4 American households owning one of the digitial assistances I'd guess that the "average" X10 user has one too.

I've made it clear (repeatedly) that AI devices are where the home automation market is. I believe that to be indisputable... no matter what the power users here at the forum worry about as far as goggle/AI/listening/etc. I do NOT believe most people (average X10 user, people) worry about such things. If they did... there would not be so many millions of Alexa/google/siri units out there. And those users ARE THERE.

X10 needs to stop looking for the big meal.... and grab a quick snack instead. Hire a code writer (X10's OWN code writer) to work with Samsung... so the CM19A works with the Samsung $69 hub (it has a usb port)... and get a Amazon skill. BOOM. X10 would be back playing with the new guys (and the old big boys)... and for very little cash and almost no time invested.
Title: Re: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
Post by: Brian H on September 17, 2018, 06:04:19 AM
I abandoned the CM15A and AHP years ago. Along with the loud CLUNK of the appliance modules and on/off switches. To me it does look like the CM15 and AHP are not being updated or new support is on the way. Dead or getting close to it.

I am now using a UDI ISY994i Insteon controller and Insteon modules. Luckily mine are early enough hardware to officially support an X10 address programmed in to it. As my HR12A still can control them as there is no 16 button Insteon equivalent.
It can also send X10 commands so I can sound the chimes modules.

Still have things like chime modules, Powerflash and XTB-IIR in use. The XTB-IIR is great as it is the only repeater I have seen that respects Insteon and does not garbage the power line signal.

I doubt I am an average user these days. More like a glorified light schedule.
Title: Re: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
Post by: petera on September 17, 2018, 09:24:06 AM
Simply put there's the X10 user and the Home Automation user who has integrated X10 into their overall setup.

I utilise the equivalent CM11 and CM15 to control X10 devices and these units are connected directly to a Raspberry Pi and are integrated into an overall Home Automation system (many platforms to choose from).

The above setup negates the need for AHP so that rules me out from that category. To be honest, I imagine the migration of AHP to the Linux platform would be more trouble than it was worth.

I do accept that combination of the CM15 or CM11 and AHP allows those units to be used as standalones with macros and timers but the SBC in conjunction with the relevant home automation software and either of these X10 controllers gives you the same facilities and more.

For the pure X10 user, I imagine leaving things as they are with AHP has a big appeal until it works no longer. You could switch to Heyu or Mochad on the Raspberry Pi gradually over time and then utilise on of the many Home Automation platforms and integrate with your X10 setup.

Talking to a plastic disc with blue flashing lights in the hope that it might carry out the commands that you have already programmed into it somewhere along the way is hardly rocket science. It's far from what some people might term AI either.

We have facial recognition running on the Raspberry Pi in Home Assistant using OpenCV that will turn on the X10 controlled lights in the house once the face of the person entering is recognised. Not quite AI either but one example of where old technology meets new.
Title: Re: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
Post by: HA Dave on September 17, 2018, 10:08:55 AM
…… I doubt I am an average user these days. More like a glorified light schedule.

Thank you Brian H. Far too often.... I feel alone in the realization that Home Automation has progressed far beyond "lighting control". If we old-timers continue to force our outdated paradigms onto the X10 business model.... we'll force X10 into memory.... only. Heaping hate... on to the new devices that are central to modern Home Automation.... does NOT serve X10 or ourselves.

Until that day comes.... when I can no-longer flip a switch to turn a light on.... X10 is merely a minor convenience. But getting AI information like:  Has the rain stopped for today? Or what's on TV tonight? Or just get a quick news brief, math solution, timer set, or calendar entry made.... saves lots of time and makes my busy life easier. Yeah... and hollering over my shoulder for Alexa to turn my (X10) lights off (just in case I forgot)…. that's really nice too. And... other than controlling X10 lights via voice and AI... the rest are the typical, average, ways people use automation today.

I believe, average X10 users... are (ALSO) converting over to easier to control protocols so they can better integrate their automation. 
Title: Re: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
Post by: Tuicemen on September 17, 2018, 10:42:11 AM
My X10 setup has always been more devices then lights. Maybe I was ahead of my time ::) :'
Even now since scaling back my HA setup in the city and ramping it up at the off grid place I only have a total of 8 x10 controlled lights the rest are devices (pumps & fans mostly)
I only use one house code at the off grid place and 3 at the city place but even with 4 house codes in use I don't have more then 20 devices controlled by X10.
I do run X10 security  and a x10 IP camera or two at both places with some scheduling attached to those so maybe I'm  a glorified device scheduler.
I know I'm nowhere near a "Power user", however Authinx seems to think so as I keep being reminded:  the WM100 was not intended for Power users >*<  ::) :'
Title: Re: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
Post by: petera on September 17, 2018, 11:02:00 AM
I'm a little confused when you say.....I can no longer flip a switch to turn a light on. Just remove the switch and replace it with a sensor. You have prescence detection and geo location which will do all that for you and all triggered with X10.

X10 is just one element of a bigger picture called Home Automation. I have a Raspberry Pi turning on lights and other appliances, all X10 related,when cloud cover is 60%, precipitation is over 3mm/hr, wind speed is high. No AI involved here. All sensor based.

The TV situation is dealt with on the same Pi running Plexus or Kodi. Alexa is done to death so there's plenty of solutions there. None of the above is AI. It's simply using the if this then that concept on the Raspberry Pi and scripting it accordingly. Again X10 works perfectly in this environment and is just one element of the Home Automation family.

Someone dumps a hub onto the market in the hope of making a killing. As there's little or no chance of making aftermarket earnings these hubs disappear quickly. One of the longest serving out there, Vera are finding their user base are jumping ship. HomeSeer, another long time player in the market are struggling to come up with new innovations which will attract additional revenues, hence the expensive first time purchase price.

We are a long way away from an AI solution but in the meantime there is some very impressive DIY Home Automation solutions out there that will comfortably embrace X10.

Title: Re: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
Post by: HA Dave on September 17, 2018, 12:15:40 PM
I'm a little confused when you say.....I can no longer flip a switch to turn a light on. Just remove the switch and replace it with a sensor.

One of the many uses for X10... has traditionally been for those with mobility issues. Many people can't simply walk over to a switch and flip it on (or trigger a sensor with movement).

I was an early adopter (more than a decade ago) of the BVC (X10 voice command) software. BVC had been designed with certain disabilities in mind. I know many people experienced great security and freedom via the BVC software. I merely suffer from being chronically lazy.  ;)

I know YOU (and some others) have tried to divide this up as the Alexa users vs the X10 old-timers.... (or something so silly).

This thread isn't about YOUR likes or MINE. It is about average X10 users. You can hate all you want on modern assaults to your pre-conceived paradigms.... but that in no way affects the math. These modern AI devices have sold MILLIONS. That's all that matters.... that is where the customers are. It really doesn't take a sharp pencil to calculate where the average user is. It is sadly disappointing that X10 has moved too slowly to profit from this current Home Automation explosion.

…….. We are a long way away from an AI solution ...

You got a mouse in your pocket? Who the hell is the WE? Me and 39 million other Americans are well into our AI solution (and enjoying it). Your perspective is emotional (we all understand... we all have emotions). But X10 needs customers... and the customers want AI.
Title: Re: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
Post by: petera on September 17, 2018, 01:26:53 PM
I don't think you are actually reading my posts correctly. Dividing X10 old time users (of which I am one) and Alexa users. I don't think so. Emotion and logic are no relations either.

This is just about using basic logic when approaching a problem and designing a solution. There's no AI involved here. if you think Alexa is an example of AI well so be it. Good luck to Alexa. I have one and it's an amusing toy until it starts playing up and I certainly wouldn't entrust my home automation setup to it.

X10 will not be going in the Alexa direction any time soon but it will probably survive creating useful controllers and letting its user base create the rest. Personally I couldn't care less who uses what as long as it works for them. I have outlined what works for me and whatever works for you go for it but X10 ain't going AI anytime soon either so lets stick with discussing realistically what direction it could go in.

Ps. Why do you feel it necessary to bold type in black and red enlarged text when making your points. It doesn't really make them any more valid.
Title: Re: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
Post by: brobin on September 17, 2018, 02:55:27 PM
I don't view Alexa as AI.  It responds to commands & queries and has access to a lot of resources, but that's not AI - at least to me.  Alexa can remind me about an appointment at a specific time but it won't, of its own volition, remind me early if there's a traffic delay along the route, suggest alternate routing and that I take an umbrella as rain is predicted and, oh yes, since you'll be passing a Costco, pick up a rotisserie chicken for dinner!  I do enjoy Alexa for what it is and maybe AI is in its future but for now it mostly just saves me the arduous task of pushing buttons.

As for the 39 million users only about 11% are using Alexa for HA functions according to this pie chart found at bigtechquestion.com.

Title: Re: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
Post by: petera on September 17, 2018, 03:17:55 PM
@brobin the funny thing is that it could remind you to bring a brolly and warn you of traffic issues and the best place to grab a coffee and it still wouldn't be an AI device. All program logic that can be predefined and hard coded into the device.

It's just a device to encourage Amazon customers onto their platform as with Google Home.

Domotics is a completely different beast and exploits the likes of Alexa and Google Home via the BWS Bridge. Once again not AI. Domotics will have to come a long way before it could be termed AI and that certainly won't be in its current format.

Maybe when they start implanting chips with built in neural networks into the human body which learn from our daily routines and replicate them when necessary around the household could we even discuss AI compatability.
Title: Re: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
Post by: brobin on September 17, 2018, 04:14:47 PM
Here's a pretty interesting & comprehensive look at what AI is and could be from ZDnet: https://goo.gl/V22dCa
Title: Re: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
Post by: dave w on September 17, 2018, 06:33:46 PM
As for the 39 million users only about 11% are using Alexa for HA functions according to this pie chart found at bigtechquestion.com.
FWIW
This is what I have thought for a long time that Alexa (and likely all A.I.) is not in heavy use for HA. It was personally confirmed after I tried setting up a couple of the new Alexa "Routines",  and also trying to link Alexa to our Bryant HVAC and running into problems on both ends.

Emails to Amazon/Alexa tech support has confirmed (to me) that HA is not their strong point. My responses from tech support were very generalized, boiler plate script, not addressing my specifics.  However, I think if you were to ask how to get Alexa to give you a traffic report for your neighborhood, I think the answers are more to the point. 

Last Christmas the local Best Buy had an entire wall filled with WiFi and Z-Wave lighting and appliance control, cameras, door locks, home security, etc.  with displays of Amazon Echo's and Google Assistant's a few steps away. That same area is now filled with flat panel TVs and games. All the home stuff has been scaled down and moved into a corner.

Would be interesting to see what Authinx yearly sales are.
Title: Re: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
Post by: HA Dave on September 17, 2018, 08:58:05 PM
I don't view Alexa as AI.

Great. Are you in charge of deciding what AI is? The rest of the world seems to missing your opinion. And just for info... I've had employees that also did nothing...  of their own volition. Yet they were of actual real intelligence... which is even better(?) than Amazons "Artificial" (programmed) kind.

ar·ti·fi·cial in·tel·li·gence
noun
noun: artificial intelligence; noun: AI
the theory and development of computer systems able to perform tasks that normally require human intelligence, such as visual perception, speech recognition, decision-making, and translation between languages.

 
As for the 39 million users only about 11% are using Alexa for HA functions according to this pie chart found at bigtechquestion.com.

Is that what that chart indicates? Or does it represent that 9% of the commands/requests to Aleax are for lighting? Which could mean that lighting/automation users could be 75% of Alexa users. And even if that 9% was the total number of HA users also using Alexa.... that would be 3,510,000 potentual X10 customers. math solution provided by Alexa
Title: Re: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
Post by: HA Dave on September 17, 2018, 09:18:38 PM
…...what I have thought for a long time that Alexa (and likely all A.I.) is not in heavy use for HA. It was personally confirmed after I tried setting up a couple of the new Alexa "Routines"......Emails to Amazon/Alexa tech support has confirmed (to me) that HA is not their strong point. …..

AND..... judging by my call to iRobot tech support today... finding good knowledgeable phone service personal isn't an easy trick now-a-days.
I understand. I am sure... that like most hobby's......coin collecting, stamp collecting, etc. HA will NEVER be a huge market. But I am convinced we are certainly in a golden era of products and popularity. 

Last Christmas the local Best Buy had an entire wall filled with WiFi and Z-Wave lighting and appliance control, cameras, door locks, home security, etc.  with displays of Amazon Echo's and Google Assistant's a few steps away. That same area is now filled with flatcoin collecting,  panel TVs and games. All the home stuff has been scaled down and moved into a corner.

And apparently.... swim suits and knit golf shirts will never be worn again either.... as the mens store I frequent has replaced that display with cotton sweaters. OR... maybe... some displays utilize seasonal demands. Expect to see more HA stuff around Christmas and fathers day. Right now... football season demands TV sales.   
Title: Re: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
Post by: HA Dave on September 17, 2018, 09:37:45 PM
Looking over that chart provided by brobin certainly does look like a prefect example of the state of Home Automation in America today. This is new and GOOD stuff. Certainly... the chart does NOT imply that that 2% of the people who own Amazon AI devices ONLY use them to get sports results. It obviously means that 2% of the uses requests/commands... are for sports scores.

So the 9% of lighting request (11% if you count thermostats) and much more if you count streaming... as music and even movies has been a big part of HA for years now. I know Bill (of BVC) had tons of requests for play lists to be added to BVC.

So... now if we take a serious look at what millions and millions of people are using Alexa for.... we should have solid data as to what modern HA users are looking for. THIS is data that X10 could use to find where/who their average customers are... and sell them product. Which BTW is what this thread is about.... NOT how to hate Amazon... or the natural direction that technology is taking.

I made the chart a bit more laptop/phone friendly:

 
Title: Re: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
Post by: HA Dave on September 17, 2018, 10:24:51 PM
I am NOT promoting Amazon... and I am NOT over-looking the market of Raspberry Pi's either. There has been about 14 million of the Pi devices sold (https://www.zdnet.com/article/14-million-raspberry-pis-sold-10-million-made-in-the-uk/) and X10 automation IS one of the Pi hobbies most popular uses of the devices.

X10 SHOULD pin-down that market. I'd like to see an X10 Pi device. But I don't care to take up a new programming hobby myself. I like my Homeseer Hometroller. It is a Pi device and works great... without me taking a class of Linux.

This is NOT about them & us. This should be about finding products that average X10 users want to buy. 
Title: Re: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
Post by: brobin on September 18, 2018, 08:30:18 AM
This should be about finding products that average X10 users want to buy.  [/b]

Agreed.
Title: Re: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
Post by: petera on September 18, 2018, 09:59:39 AM
On reflection, the fiasco with the WM100 and all it's woes definitely points X10 in the direction of the DIY market. While a number of commercially available products like the HomeSeer Hometroller do facilitate the use of X10 it is not officially supported and it's support is provided at the mercy of a volunteer from the HomeSeer community forum. Hardly a viable option if you are purchasing a Hometroller for X10 use and run into a problem that the volunteer is either unable or unwilling to resolve.

I think the future of X10 lies in the hands of the X10 community. Possibly reworking old concepts like the CM11/CM15 or following on from previous discussions modifying the WM100 to make it fit for purpose.

Again alternatives have been put forward from the likes of Tuicemen etc but as it involves an alien OS it appears that this would be a mountain many would not be willing to climb. At least these alternatives have been offered so it appears that for the moment it is up to Authinx via the Chinese developer/manufacturer to come up with the X10 goods unless there's an option that has not yet been put on the table.
Title: Re: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
Post by: HA Dave on September 18, 2018, 01:14:41 PM
On reflection, the fiasco with the WM100 and all it's woes definitely points X10 in the direction of the DIY market. ...…

I think the future of X10 lies in the hands of the X10 community.

DIY's, Jeff Volp, and the forums has for many years (previous to myself) been very good for X10. But things always change.... and things HAVE changed. Change #1 was X10 closing their doors (and losing AHP/smarthome functions). Change #2 has been the more recent paradigm shift in the Home Automation market place. 

So whereas the competition has been kicking ass, selling billions of dollars (with a "B") of product.... X10 has taken a step backwards. I think "going DIY" would be a 2nd step back.... and away from remaining marketable. Although I wouldn't recommend X10 turn their backs on the possibly large PI/DIY market.

I think a simple easy to make or adapt product like a new flash-drive sized firecracker/CM19A.... might satisfy BOTH the DIY market. The drivers for such a device, could range from MS, Raspbian, Android, Apple …. and even the Samsung Hub ($69). Which... with the Alexa skill..... would make any X10 user modern and up-to-date (as-well-as expansible). And such a USB device in a Pi and a bit of programing....  could provide some DIY uniqueness. OR... X10 could even bring a programmer in-house to create software in Raspbian... to better serve the Pi market.
Title: Re: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
Post by: Tuicemen on September 18, 2018, 02:10:15 PM
With the me bricking a WM100 during a test update I've been tearing it down and looking at the Wi-Fi daughter board in a bit more detail.
This has 7 pins on it to connect to the main board to are for LED colour light changes and one for the connection\sync button which leaves 4, that is all a USB connector uses. Two of those are for power + and ground if the Daughter board was to be converted into a USB dongle it could easily be plugged into an existing  CM15  Provided the cm15 USB does have the power pin live.

Of coarse I would want the PLC power of the WM100 with the options the CM15 allows so the Cm15 would need an update.
 -:) A updated CM15 could still work with the old AHP software for those that wished it & would also allow users a powerful controller for DIY projects.
Title: Re: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
Post by: petera on September 18, 2018, 03:05:32 PM


Of coarse I would want the PLC power of the WM100 with the options the CM15 allows so the Cm15 would need an update.
 -:) A updated CM15 could still work with the old AHP software for those that wished it & would also allow users a powerful controller for DIY projects.

And therein lies the future of X10 for users who wish to plug away with AHP. DIY and mods. Outside of Authinx I doubt there's any potential manufacturers lining up to produce X10 controllers and other equipment.

For others there's the hope of a more powerful X10 controller coupled with an SBC and the X10 platform of your choice. A little work involved but the rewards are well worth it.

As for any other amazing developments X10 or otherwise I don't see them coming on stream from Authinx anytime soon. Maybe a few firmware updates to the WM100 and that's probably about it.
Title: Re: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
Post by: Tuicemen on September 18, 2018, 03:08:23 PM
Actually there are other items in the works, though they are on the back burner simmering so to speak. rofl
Title: Re: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
Post by: petera on September 18, 2018, 03:19:49 PM
Actually there are other items in the works, though they are on the back burner simmering so to speak. rofl

Hopefully someone adds some fuel or the burner will go out. Such a shame they don't give users a chance to commentate and give opinion on these concepts. Might save them a lot of trouble in the long run.
Title: Re: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
Post by: JeffVolp on September 18, 2018, 03:46:37 PM
This has 7 pins on it to connect to the main board to are for LED colour light changes and one for the connection\sync button which leaves 4, that is all a USB connector uses. Two of those are for power + and ground if the Daughter board was to be converted into a USB dongle it could easily be plugged into an existing  CM15  Provided the cm15 USB does have the power pin live.

Mine has 8 pins labeled:

232IN
PLC_BUSY
232OUT
KEY
LED_Y
LED_B
3V3
GND

So it is clear that all the X10 functions are handled in a different device.  It appears the 60Hz zero crossing detector runs to the 14-pin chip underneath the power supply, so that is my guess for the X10 controller.

Since the actual X10 communication is being performed by the motherboard, I doubt that it would be possible to support extended commands even with a firmware update.

Jeff
Title: Re: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
Post by: dave w on September 18, 2018, 05:19:04 PM
AND..... judging by my call to iRobot tech support today...
Yeah, I've dealt with them also. If your Roomba cleans in the random fashion, take a look at the Neato. Even the early models map the room using a IR scanning laser and vacuums in straight lines. But if you have carpets that shows tracks, stick with the Roomba.

Anywho, don't get offended just because I don't think AI and HA are as closely connected as I thought they would be.
Title: Re: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
Post by: Knightrider on September 18, 2018, 07:36:53 PM
I'd say it's time for X10 to cut all ties with the manufacturer.  I hope they own the designs. Otherwise, we better dig out some old ACT A10 schematics.
Title: Re: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
Post by: BackAgain on September 18, 2018, 07:42:33 PM
Ps. Why do you feel it necessary to bold type in black and red enlarged text when making your points. It doesn't really make them any more valid.

It's his AI going all kerflooey.




Personally, the original AHP and CM11 did everything I needed ..... when it worked.  When it didn't, I tried the CM15a on recommendations of those here.  It didn't work all the well either.  I probably have electrical noise that is complicating things, but I don't have the time, money or patience to pursue that.  So I let the CM15a run and turn whatever lights on and off when it feels like working.  But It doesn't take over and use exaggerated fonts.

Title: Re: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
Post by: BackAgain on September 18, 2018, 07:45:37 PM
Emails to Amazon/Alexa tech support has confirmed (to me) that HA is not their strong point. My responses from tech support were very generalized, boiler plate script, not addressing my specifics.  However, I think if you were to ask how to get Alexa to give you a traffic report for your neighborhood, I think the answers are more to the point. 

Their goal is to sell stuff and encourage people to do so by claiming how easy it is to just say something and have ti appear at your door.

Title: Re: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
Post by: dave w on September 18, 2018, 08:40:06 PM
I'd say it's time for X10 to cut all ties with the manufacturer. I hope they own the designs.
Good point. But I don't see Authinx firing the manufacturer.
I will say this much. Authinx should have hired Dave Rye when they had the chance. He probably had every schematic in his head, and I think he spent as much time in Shenzhen as he did in Seattle.
Title: Re: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
Post by: HA Dave on September 18, 2018, 09:41:25 PM
Ideally... X10 should offer a HUB. One that would function exactly like the other hubs in the market now... and operate similar to the old AHP... only without the need for a connected PC. And... like the SAMSUNG hub.... incorporate the use of other protocols... and wifi device's. Run a professional (grown-up) server that allows for email and text notices, Amazon and google connectivity.... the whole 27 feet (aka 9 yards).

Then they can "brand" any of the now ubiquitous wifi bulbs , plug-in's, and switches.

But X10 could/would retain the still needed simple Off-line ability of PLC and old fashion RF.

Title: Re: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
Post by: HA Dave on September 18, 2018, 10:11:38 PM
... don't get offended just because I don't think AI and HA are as closely connected as I thought they would be.

I rarely get offended. And it doesn't bother me in the lest that not many other of the regulars have embraced AI as I have.

In '07 when I made my HA setup voice controllable using BVC (and MS SAPI5)…. most people I showed it to... thought it was a trick or were totally amazed. Now... a few years later..... Voice Recognition is common place. So much so... most people don't really see what all this stuff can do. Admittedly... I had to reevaluate my own habits and attitudes in order to adapt to the new concepts. I spoke with some younger people... even some KIDS (you know... people under 40).

I started mid-winter... disassembling and re-imagining my entire setup. I made a list and started practicing new habits. Simple little things.... like asking Alexa to play a certain song that I recently heard somewhere else. And being sure to ask for a news brief. I am an old man... and I know full well my paradigms are just as rock-solid as other old mens. But I have been at least semi-successful at chipping away at the old way of doing things. And I've formed new habits that I've also seen others around me pick up as well.

This is absolutely THE Home Automation Golden age! There has never been a better time to venture into HA as a hobby... or as a lifestyle.

When I made my first X10 order... I didn't know there was other HA brands and protocols. And like most people on the forums I been through a LOT with X10 (including what became an awful and embarrassing soft-porn Web Site). It was heart-breaking and depressing when their servers and Web Site went down. I just hope the new X10 doesn't fail at keeping this technology viable.     
Title: Re: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
Post by: JBPatt on December 30, 2018, 07:37:40 PM
Going back to Tuicemen's question, I nominate myself as an Average X-10 user.  I use X-10 primarily for holiday lights, which we leave on all year plus a few others, like outside floodlights, etc.  I run AHP on a Win10 desktop through the CM15A.  I recently added a WM100, which has proved handy.  I had a PR511 floodlight sensor go bad a couple of years ago, sending extraneous codes and messing up my lights.  Finally got fed up with that.  Can't find a replacement.  Installed a VT38A sensor/camera that I bought years ago and didn't use.  That seems to be working for the sensor function, but no camera output.  I came to the forum today, after being away many years, because I finally got around to troubleshooting a nonfunctioning macro.  I was hoping to find some help with setting and reading flags, but no luck.  I did see something about the current software (3.318) not including the "advanced" features that I probably had and used to build the macro.  I'm guessing the flag functions were part of that load, and I'm not going to be able to fix this macro with the current software.  Confirmation?  Ideas?  Raspberry PI??
Title: Re: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
Post by: HA Dave on December 30, 2018, 08:36:22 PM
……... after being away many years, because I finally got around to troubleshooting a nonfunctioning macro.  I was hoping to find some help with setting and reading flags, but no luck.  I did see something about the current software (3.318) not including the "advanced" features that I probably had and used to build the macro.  I'm guessing the flag functions were part of that load, and I'm not going to be able to fix this macro with the current software.  Confirmation?  Ideas?  Raspberry PI??

I miss the old CM15A..... and I own 3. I guess I could set one up on a running PC. Maybe even use a low-electric-consuming PC fan-less stick... or win10 tablet. But for now.... one CM15A runs it's own limited macros (loaded from... but NOT attached to... a laptop). Another CM15A serves merely as an interface for a Homeseer S2 Hometroller. The third one is a back-up. I like spares and back-ups.

The CM15A was an awesome piece of technology in its day. And the old time forum members learned how to make it do more than, IMHO, it's designers ever thought it could do. The CM15A was way ahead of it's time. But realistically.... that time was over a decade ago and it has since came and went. 

I had a PR511 floodlight sensor go bad a couple of years ago, sending extraneous codes and messing up my lights.  Finally got fed up with that.  Can't find a replacement.  Installed a VT38A sensor/camera that I bought years ago and didn't use.  That seems to be working for the sensor function, but no camera output.

Years ago.... a PR511 was at the heart of my outside security and X10 camera setup. It was notorious for false alarms... but it was pretty nice it it's time.

I still use X10 to control my outside AND indoor Christmas lights too. I use Amazons Echo's to tell my Homeseer device to turn the lights on.... and I use a time based thing to turn the lights off (because I forget). Cameras can now function as motion sensors and alert your phone (and/or even send you a pic or video). The new stuff works better.... and integrates well with other new stuff. I would definitely keep using the X10 stuff.... and the X10-HomeGenie-Hub (an X10 user created device) might be a the least expensive way to do that. But I really like having the abilities and ease of use of the Amazon-Alexa stuff myself.

It's not easy to RE-plan a Home Automation setup with all the bells and whistles available today.
Title: Re: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
Post by: Brian H on December 30, 2018, 08:46:37 PM
If you didn't have a registered AHP 3.318.
After X10WTI went bankrupt the registration servers are out of service.
The presently available 3.318 version for download. Can have some of the optional plug ins registered through Tuicemen's Life Jacket program.

Some plug ins that went through the old X10 servers no longer work.
Title: Re: AHP/CM15A Opinion?
Post by: HA Dave on December 31, 2018, 07:50:49 AM
If you didn't have a registered AHP 3.318.
After X10WTI went bankrupt the registration servers are out of service.
The presently available 3.318 version for download. Can have some of the optional plug ins registered through Tuicemen's Life Jacket program.

Some plug ins that went through the old X10 servers no longer work.

The new download (and Tuicemen's Life Jacket) are awesome. I've copied what I can on several old Windows XP PC's and laptops. But like the windows XP OS.... the CM15A software is itself now pretty dated. And without a 24/7 running PC along with a server connection.... as great as the old CM15A was..... it's use is very limited in what it can do today.

Everything more advanced than light timers, water sprinkler timers, and PalmPad remote control..... is better (and easier) to do with WiFi (and AI). The problem is... X10 has done far too little to get it's millions of modules and devices back online. The servers died or were lost (or whatever)… at the worse time in automation history.... ever. Meanwhile.... all the nifty, cool, stuff that can be done with home automation.... can't be done without going online And X10ers that used online X10 servers for years. And posted on this online forum hundreds or thousands of times.... now claim that servers are satanic or some such nonsense.

Rarely.... is there even a post on these forums anymore about "automating" anything. And when somebody does.... the actual best solution seems to most likely be.... and different brand, online product.