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📱X10 WIFI => 🐞X10 WIFI App problems or bugs => 🏥Help & Trouble shooting => Topic started by: ceedee on October 06, 2018, 09:39:22 PM

Title: WM100 snooping
Post by: ceedee on October 06, 2018, 09:39:22 PM
I am assuming that the WM100 continuously watches for unit codes so that it can update its on/off table.  Is this correct?

I ask because I am trying to debug an exterior flood, connected to a wall switch, that just started coming on at random times.  When I see the light on, I check the WM100, and the random "on" status is never captured in the log.  However, when I turn ithe flood on/off from an app, or palmpad, or the wall switch itself, the WM100 captures the action correctly.

So it appears that there may be transmissions that the WM100 doesnít see,  but that doesnít make sense.
Title: Re: WM100 snooping
Post by: brobin on October 06, 2018, 09:53:20 PM
Assuming there's no motion detector on the flood lights what kind of bulbs and which model switch do you have?
Title: Re: WM100 snooping
Post by: ceedee on October 06, 2018, 10:06:23 PM
Assuming there's no motion detector on the flood lights what kind of bulbs and which model switch do you have?
WS467. No motion detection.  Two incandescent floods. Iíve had this switch installed for over 10 years, with no issues.  I have no problem if itís failing, but surprised that the WM is missing the ON command.  Weird!
Title: Re: WM100 snooping
Post by: JeffVolp on October 06, 2018, 11:14:31 PM
Iíve had this switch installed for over 10 years, with no issues.  I have no problem if itís failing, but surprised that the WM is missing the ON command.  Weird!

The ON command is missing because it is likely that powerline noise is causing the switch to turn on, not an actual X10 command.

Jeff
Title: Re: WM100 snooping
Post by: brobin on October 07, 2018, 12:53:48 AM
I could be wrong but from long ago I seem to remember that failing bulbs could cause problems like this. Maybe a loose filament causing local control activation.  You might try a new pair and/or different brand of bulbs in that fixture to eliminate them from consideration.  Is the Housecode M?  Being all 0's that one is the most prone to false activity.  Any new phone chargers plugged in or other new electronics?
Title: Re: WM100 snooping
Post by: ceedee on October 07, 2018, 07:40:36 AM
I could be wrong but from long ago I seem to remember that failing bulbs could cause problems like this. Maybe a loose filament causing local control activation.  You might try a new pair and/or different brand of bulbs in that fixture to eliminate them from consideration.  Is the Housecode M?  Being all 0's that one is the most prone to false activity.  Any new phone chargers plugged in or other new electronics?
Arg...I figured that it was noise.  Iím constantly plugging in phones, etc., but nothing significant has changed in awhile.  As you all know, tracking down the culprit is a PITA. I did add the WM a few months ago, but Iím sure thatís not it.  I will change the bulbs and see what happens.

Thanks to all.

PS - the floods are "L6"
.
Title: Re: WM100 snooping
Post by: dave w on October 07, 2018, 05:13:07 PM
I could be wrong but from long ago I seem to remember that failing bulbs could cause problems like this.
I have seen lose bulbs cause this also. I have had incandescent bulbs back their way out of a socket enough to flicker and turn ON.  But two lose bulbs seems like would be improbable, so I'll go back to sleep now.
Title: Re: WM100 snooping
Post by: ceedee on October 07, 2018, 06:22:54 PM
I could be wrong but from long ago I seem to remember that failing bulbs could cause problems like this.
I have seen lose bulbs cause this also. I have had incandescent bulbs back their way out of a socket enough to flicker and turn ON.  But two lose bulbs seems like would be improbable, so I'll go back to sleep now.

Bulbs are tight.  Iíll swap them out.  I have a bunch of old incandescents from swapping in LEDs elsewhere.
Title: Re: WM100 snooping
Post by: ceedee on October 26, 2018, 07:25:47 AM
I could be wrong but from long ago I seem to remember that failing bulbs could cause problems like this.
I have seen lose bulbs cause this also. I have had incandescent bulbs back their way out of a socket enough to flicker and turn ON.  But two lose bulbs seems like would be improbable, so I'll go back to sleep now.


Bulbs are tight.  Iíll swap them out.  I have a bunch of old incandescents from swapping in LEDs elsewhere.

The lights behaved themselves since my last post, but I was having trouble using my palmpad to control them, so I swapped out the switch, and set it to another unit code just for yucks.  Some time between 10pm and 5am last night they turned on.  Nothing in the WM100 history.  I have had this setup for 20 + years with no issues. Now I will swap the bulbs...itís all thatís left to do, I guess.  Unless my PR511 is in a funk.
Title: Re: WM100 snooping
Post by: ceedee on November 03, 2018, 09:36:10 AM
I could be wrong but from long ago I seem to remember that failing bulbs could cause problems like this.
I have seen lose bulbs cause this also. I have had incandescent bulbs back their way out of a socket enough to flicker and turn ON.  But two lose bulbs seems like would be improbable, so I'll go back to sleep now.

New bulbs.  Weíll see.   However, I now think my PR is in a funk, unless the WM100 is being weird.  I turn on "L1" at dusk via my PR511.  At dawn, the WM sometimes captures "L1 off" and sometimes "L9 off"...difference of one bit.  Noise perhaps or....

Iím programmatically turning off L1 in the late evening, so it doesnít matter, but I wonder if the flakiness is contributing to my other issue.

Ahhhh, technology!


Bulbs are tight.  Iíll swap them out.  I have a bunch of old incandescents from swapping in LEDs elsewhere.

The lights behaved themselves since my last post, but I was having trouble using my palmpad to control them, so I swapped out the switch, and set it to another unit code just for yucks.  Some time between 10pm and 5am last night they turned on.  Nothing in the WM100 history.  I have had this setup for 20 + years with no issues. Now I will swap the bulbs...itís all thatís left to do, I guess.  Unless my PR511 is in a funk.
Title: Re: WM100 snooping
Post by: JeffVolp on November 03, 2018, 10:00:38 AM
New bulbs.  Weíll see.   However, I now think my PR is in a funk, unless the WM100 is being weird.  I turn on "L1" at dusk via my PR511.  At dawn, the WM sometimes captures "L1 off" and sometimes "L9 off"...difference of one bit.

I had a PR511 occasionally stop responding to its programmed code.  It was the common oxidized switch problem, so try spinning the code wheels a few times.  I eventually retired that PR511 because something shattered the motion detector lens in the windstorm that lifted a couple of concrete tiles off our roof.

Jeff
Title: Re: WM100 snooping
Post by: ceedee on November 03, 2018, 10:24:38 AM
New bulbs.  Weíll see.   However, I now think my PR is in a funk, unless the WM100 is being weird.  I turn on "L1" at dusk via my PR511.  At dawn, the WM sometimes captures "L1 off" and sometimes "L9 off"...difference of one bit.

I had a PR511 occasionally stop responding to its programmed code.  It was the common oxidized switch problem, so try spinning the code wheels a few times.  I eventually retired that PR511 because something shattered the motion detector lens in the windstorm that lifted a couple of concrete tiles off our roof.

Jeff

Thank you, sir.  I am on the case.  Itís mounted on a table side of the house, faces north, and is not protected from the weather.  I guess I should be happy that it lasted this long!
Title: Re: WM100 snooping
Post by: ceedee on November 05, 2018, 01:27:35 PM
New bulbs.  Weíll see.   However, I now think my PR is in a funk, unless the WM100 is being weird.  I turn on "L1" at dusk via my PR511.  At dawn, the WM sometimes captures "L1 off" and sometimes "L9 off"...difference of one bit.

I had a PR511 occasionally stop responding to its programmed code.  It was the common oxidized switch problem, so try spinning the code wheels a few times.  I eventually retired that PR511 because something shattered the motion detector lens in the windstorm that lifted a couple of concrete tiles off our roof.

Jeff

Thank you, sir.  I am on the case.  Itís mounted on a table side of the house, faces north, and is not protected from the weather.  I guess I should be happy that it lasted this long!

Gave the dials some good turns and exercised the switches.  All good for a couple of days, but they were back on this morning.  I just canít narrow down what might be doing it. One suspect is the dawn "lights off" action from the PR, because I donít see the floods on at night.   As I mentioned before, nothing in the WM log.

I may just deactivate the 467 via the slide switch, and move on to another crisis.

PR511 is L12, set to motion, with L1 and L2 on at dusk. L1 and L2 are turned off by WM100 later in the evening.  The dawn sequence on the PR effectively does nothing. The problem child is L11, which is not programmed or part of the PR dusk sequence.   I have tried other codes on the problem flood, and recently changed out the WS.
Title: Re: WM100 snooping
Post by: ceedee on November 17, 2018, 06:19:11 PM
Activation of  the WS467 switch "at the switch" is not recorded by the WM100. I don't see the action(s) in the log, and the "on/off" icon does not change color.

Iíve moved the WM100 all around; no change.  Iíve also tried three 467s. Same.

Iím punting.
Title: Re: WM100 snooping
Post by: Brian H on November 17, 2018, 06:33:28 PM
Like most X10 modules. The WS467 has a power line receiver in it and no power line transmitter.
So locally changing its state will not send any information back to the WM100 and it will not know you changed it.
So what you are seeing is correct.

Some of the Insteon modules that still can accept a Primary X10 Address in them. Will send information back onto the power lines that the WM100 or other X10 controller like the CM15A may see.
Title: Re: WM100 snooping
Post by: ceedee on November 17, 2018, 06:54:18 PM
Like most X10 modules. The WS467 has a power line receiver in it and no power line transmitter.
So locally changing its state will not send any information back to the WM100 and it will not know you changed it.
So what you are seeing is correct.

Some of the Insteon modules that still can accept a Primary X10 Address in them. Will send information back onto the power lines that the WM100 or other X10 controller like the CM15A may see.

Thanks for the explanation!

I interpreted this as including local switching:

The WM100 has an active Ďsenseí technology that will adjust the status of the devices in the app regardless of if the signal was sent from the WM100 or any other source (like a hand remote)

"or any other source"
Title: Re: WM100 snooping
Post by: Brian H on November 18, 2018, 06:07:14 AM
The WM100 can't sense the WS467s status as it has no signals being sent to show it is changed and it will not respond to an X10  Status Request. As it has no power line transmitter to reply with.

A remote, motion sensor or another controller. Sending an X10 power line command to a module. Should be seen by the WM100 so it would then know the modules status was changed.
Title: Re: WM100 snooping
Post by: dave w on November 18, 2018, 04:02:13 PM
I interpreted this as including local switching:
"or any other source"
Nope. The W467 is not a source. As Brian stated,  it is only a receiver. Looking at the X10 web site, "Controllers" are a source.
https://www.x10.com/x10-pro/controllers.html
Some of the Smarthome Insteon switches which are *still* compatible with X10, WILL send out their status when switched locally. However I do not know the models