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💬General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: HA Dave on November 19, 2018, 07:07:37 PM

Title: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: HA Dave on November 19, 2018, 07:07:37 PM
I've enjoyed motion detection lighting... for some years. I've used the standard PIR (passive InfraRed?) both outside for with X10 and other floodlight sensors, and indoors in the garage, laundry room, and one bathroom. Although I haven't had much luck with the little X10 battery powered "eye" sensors. The hard-wire PIR sensors that replace a standard wall switch have been great. I've also tried a screw-in sensor that went between the bulb and the and the screw-in base.

Recently I tried an LED lightbulb (https://www.amazon.com/Motion-Sensor-Bulb-Radar-LED/dp/B0796Q95KS/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1542671936&sr=8-4&keywords=radar+light+bulb) with built-in radar motion sensor. I'd put it in the laundry as often times it's convenient to have hands free lighting there. Interestingly... even though the room is large for a laundry room (aprox 12X14) it appears to catch activity well into sounding rooms.

This heightened (through glass and walls) sensitivity might be a little excessive for laundry room lighting (I am going to try PIR bulbs next)…. but for security lighting in my shed... it sounds ideal. Any others experimenting with this? 


https://www.amazon.com/Motion-Sensor-Bulb-Radar-LED/dp/B0796Q95KS/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1542671936&sr=8-4&keywords=radar+light+bulb
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: dhouston on November 19, 2018, 08:47:12 PM
I seriously doubt that this uses actual radar. See...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radar (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radar)
for a definition/description of radar.
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: HA Dave on November 19, 2018, 10:58:31 PM
I seriously doubt that this uses actual radar.....

Radio waves? I can't imagine why it wouldn't. Practically everything is some resonance, vibration, or wave of some kind. I feel confident it is "technically" radar.

Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: SkipWX10 on November 19, 2018, 11:05:11 PM
I have looked at the 'radar' bulbs myself, as I thought they would be great for several applications at my house. The big holdup for me was exactly what you experienced....I thought they'd be nice in the connector from the house to the workshop and garage, but wouldn't tolerate activation from inside the room at either end...the reviews I read mentioned, for example, putting the bulb in the outside light by the door, but getting activation from inside the house. I think for the time being, I'll stick with the 'Eye' detectors I use now with great success. And BTW, the batteries have worked in mine for years with no issues, probably change every three years or so and the two I have in use detect at least 10 times a day...
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: HA Dave on November 19, 2018, 11:28:00 PM
......the reviews I read mentioned, for example, putting the bulb in the outside light by the door, but getting activation from inside the house......

Yes..... that is exactly what I'd expect to happen. I am positive I get far more "friendly fire" lightings from non-laundry room traffic than useful lighting...... when entering the laundry room with a basket of laundry (the purpose of the detector).

But on the other hand.... The bulb burns a whole 7 watts.... and only remains on 20 secs after motion stops. So the wasted electric wouldn't likely be more than a minute or two of a 7 watt burn each day. However.... even though coming up with a "cost" would require a very sharp pencil... I don't like the idea of lights burning for no good reason.

I had [also] considered trying the bulb in the foyer. It would provide light if I entered the room at night. And... would [likely] also light up if a person approached the front door from the outside.
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: dhouston on November 20, 2018, 06:13:22 AM
I seriously doubt that this uses actual radar.....
Radio waves? I can't imagine why it wouldn't. Practically everything is some resonance, vibration, or wave of some kind. I feel confident it is "technically" radar.

Then what is its FCC ID?
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: HA Dave on November 20, 2018, 10:49:51 AM
Then what is its FCC ID?

You remind me of the time my brother told me he had a new computer.... that was as fast as computers could ever be made. Because the processor speed/megahertz had entered into the realm or FM radio. Of course.... while being completely correct.... he was also absolutely wrong.

In THIS case..... it's important to remember that the FCC isn't responsible for regulating microwave radiation (just like the FCC doesn't regulate microwave ovens). So.... an FCC ID would be inappropriate. 
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: bkenobi on November 21, 2018, 11:56:27 AM
Radar detectors (which don't transmit RF) have an FCC ID though?

Example:
https://fccid.io/HSXWH21
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: dhouston on November 21, 2018, 02:47:02 PM
It turns out that technically it is radar - doppler radar, in fact. There are 5-6 companies with similar products and all appear to have repurposed an IC designed for PIR for use with RF. I did not find details on the frequencies used but with advertised range about equal to a PalmPad it's obvious they should have an FCC ID.
http://www.datasheetcafe.com/biss0001-datasheet-pdf/  (http://www.datasheetcafe.com/biss0001-datasheet-pdf/)
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Communications_Commission#Unlicensed_spectrum (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Communications_Commission#Unlicensed_spectrum)
Quote
Normally, any intentional radio transmission requires an FCC license pursuant to Title III.  However, in recent decades the FCC has also opened some spectrum bands for unlicensed operations, typically restricting them to low power levels conducive to short-range applications.  This has facilitated the development of a very wide range of common technologies from wireless garage door openers, cordless phones, and baby monitors to Wi-Fi and Bluetooth among others.  However, unlicensed devices like most radio transmission equipment must still receive technical approval from the FCC before being sold into the marketplace, including to ensure that such devices cannot be modified by end users to increase transmit power above FCC limits.
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: HA Dave on November 21, 2018, 11:04:53 PM
……. with advertised range about equal to a PalmPad it's obvious they should have an FCC ID.

Radar detectors (which don't transmit RF) have an FCC ID though?

You guys do realize the FCC (federal communication commission) IS a government entity.... right?  I wouldn't waste too much time wondering why logic and reason doesn't fully comply with government actions and/or regulation. They really DO NOT work that way.

Each government agency operates under the authority of a charter/directive or order. These orders can be finitely or loosely written giving broad powers for self regulation. Or oversight can even be provided by congress. It all depends on the mood and desire of congress on at the time the agency was either created or reviewed (if ever).

It could easily be the FCC doesn't want to be bothered with lightbulbs (at this time)…. or they requested authority over new tech lightbulbs.... and congress didn't care to review the request (at this time). I wouldn't read too much into it.

The real question here.... is how to exploit this new tech and make it our bit*h.
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: racerfern on November 22, 2018, 07:48:31 AM
Interesting bulb, however it's not 360 detection. So the bulb should to be pointed so the radar is generally toward the point of entry, or so it seems. It also isn't a "smart" bulb so there's no notification.

I've got https://www.amazon.com/GE-Occupancy-Required-SmartThings-26931/dp/B07226MG2T/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1542890006&sr=8-3&keywords=ge+z-wave+26931 (https://www.amazon.com/GE-Occupancy-Required-SmartThings-26931/dp/B07226MG2T/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1542890006&sr=8-3&keywords=ge+z-wave+26931) in the garage. It turns on the light of course, but also reports back to the mother ship via z-wave. Now, a simple event can notify me of the intruder in the shed. It paired perfectly with my z-wave hub. Quite a bit more money, but lots more function and automation options.

For non-security areas (Laundry), I use https://www.amazon.com/Lutron-Maestro-Required-Single-Pole-MS-OPS2-WH/dp/B00L43RTSS/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1542890519&sr=8-4&keywords=lutron+maestro+motion+sensor+switch (https://www.amazon.com/Lutron-Maestro-Required-Single-Pole-MS-OPS2-WH/dp/B00L43RTSS/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1542890519&sr=8-4&keywords=lutron+maestro+motion+sensor+switch) as it has programmable sensitivity and on time, although no "smart" capability.
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: dhouston on November 22, 2018, 10:34:43 AM
In THIS case..... it's important to remember that the FCC isn't responsible for regulating microwave radiation (just like the FCC doesn't regulate microwave ovens). So.... an FCC ID would be inappropriate.
My Haier microwave oven has an FCC ID. If you look at the label (usually on the back) of yours, you'll find it has an FCC ID as well. Looks like those irresponsible feds have been at it again.  :o
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: dave w on November 22, 2018, 12:24:32 PM
I've got https://www.amazon.com/GE-Occupancy-Required-SmartThings-26931/dp/B07226MG2T/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1542890006&sr=8-3&keywords=ge+z-wave+26931 (https://www.amazon.com/GE-Occupancy-Required-SmartThings-26931/dp/B07226MG2T/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1542890006&sr=8-3&keywords=ge+z-wave+26931) in the garage. It turns on the light of course, but also reports back to the mother ship via z-wave. Now, a simple event can notify me of the intruder in the shed. It paired perfectly with my z-wave hub. Quite a bit more money, but lots more function and automation options.
This is a great (AKA genius) application! Motion sensing light and security alarm in one package (with the proper automation software). Kudos racerfern! Unfortunately for us "X10 Only" (AKA never Z-Wave-er's) it just turns on the light in the shed. So we "never Z-Wave" are still stuck with MS14's with long dribble antennas, hot glued to the left side. Sigh.
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: HA Dave on November 22, 2018, 01:08:44 PM
… I've got…….. in the garage. It turns on the light of course, but also reports back to the mother ship via z-wave. Now, a simple event can notify me of the intruder in the shed. It paired perfectly with my z-wave hub. Quite a bit more money, but lots more function and automation options.

For non-security areas (Laundry), I use……. as it has programmable sensitivity and on time, although no "smart" capability.

Yep. I use a dumb/non-smart motion sensing switch in the garage. The laundry (old basement) room doesn't have a suitable configuration.


This is a great (AKA genius) application! Motion sensing light and security alarm in one package (with the proper automation software). Kudos racerfern!

I've noticed that my Wink Hub (a $39 clearance item from Home Depot) has added that feature called "LookOut" now. While upgrading my Home Alarm recently... I noticed the automation/security integration is getting big right now. I am doing some of that same integration here as well. racerfern is always at the cutting edge.

Unfortunately for us "X10 Only" (AKA never Z-Wave-er's) it just turns on the light in the shed. So we "never Z-Wave" are still stuck with MS14's with long dribble antennas, hot glued to the left side. Sigh.

It doesn't have to be that way! X10 products.... and it's users have chosen to remain disconnected.... ONLY IN RECENT YEARS/MONTHS. We had actual connected smart homes with the CM15A... before the servers were unplugged. I love real automation. Not that X10 remote control is bad... it's not. But my phone and I are practically.... leaving the phone out of the loop.... is Non-negotiable.


 
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: racerfern on November 22, 2018, 02:29:23 PM
Quote
Unfortunately for us "X10 Only" (AKA never Z-Wave-er's) it just turns on the light in the shed. So we "never Z-Wave" are still stuck with MS14's with long dribble antennas, hot glued to the left side. Sigh.

Why not? What's holding you back from buying a Hometroller Zee S2 which supports most X10 functions? Reasonably priced and sometimes on excellent sale prices. Supports X10 via a plug-in that's free. Ask @HA Dave. You can have your X10 cake and a new fresh cake. Note that z-wave does NOT require an internet connection, it certainly makes it more convenient but it's not essential. All my "events" are local based on the PC that runs the software. I only access some kind of cloud to send a text/email or to gather rain totals so the controller knows to turn on sprinklers or not.

https://shop.homeseer.com/collections/home-controllers/products/hometroller-zee-s2-home-controller (allows 5 plug-ins and includes software) Linux based

https://shop.homeseer.com/collections/system-interfaces/products/homeseer-z-net-remote-z-wave-plus-interface (unlimited plug-ins, but you have to buy the software) generally Windows based

Heck, you could buy a https://shop.homeseer.com/collections/system-interfaces/products/homeseer-smartstick-usb-z-wave-interface plus the software and have a very capable system.

Time marches on and we have to march with it. Otherwise, I'd still have my Commodore 64.

Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: dave w on November 22, 2018, 04:32:57 PM

Why not? What's holding you back from buying a Hometroller Zee S2 which supports most X10 functions?
Oh, I'm using HS3 now. Also designing custom Android screens for tablets to go on wall.

But:  " zee control seestom ees X10, und must remain pure " . <wink>
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: Tuicemen on November 22, 2018, 06:21:44 PM
A Pi Zero W with HomeGenie or other free open source software will provide Zwave control for under $25  ;)
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: HA Dave on November 23, 2018, 08:57:58 AM
…… What's holding you back from buying a Hometroller Zee S2 which supports most X10 functions? Reasonably priced and sometimes on excellent sale prices. Supports X10 via a plug-in that's free. Ask @HA Dave. You can have your X10 cake and a new fresh cake. Note that z-wave does NOT require an internet connection, it certainly makes it more convenient ……

It was you racerfern that convinced and brought me into the 21st century with your old Hometroller.... which changed my perspective and automation setup... forever. I've had a really nice setup for over a decade. But my setup NOW… is very futuristic. My "next step" will be to add a little geo-fencing (you've mentioned). Which will work with a new Nest thermostat the wife has requested.

Time marches on and we have to march with it. Otherwise, I'd still have my Commodore 64.

I like that! Except.... I had an early Vic 20. I hope you don't mind if I use that as a new tag line. As a CO (and avid X10'er) ... I feel responsible for encouraging others to embrace the new Automation technologies as a way to keep X10 current. It just doesn't make good sense to try to force X10 users to live in a pre-internet 1990's world of Home Automation.
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: dhouston on November 23, 2018, 09:27:51 AM
It just doesn't make good sense to try to force X10 users to live in a pre-internet 1990's world of Home Automation.
Nobody is forcing anyone to do anything. Control via the Internet has been possible for 20 years or so as I demonstrated when you claimed it was impossible for my BX24-AHT user to monitor and control his Southern California house from his temporary (but long term) assignment in Eastern Canada. And, you can find multiple instances here where I've pointed users to free DDNS servers such as NoIP which allow remote access even when a user's Internet Provider assigns dynamic IP addresses. All several of us here desire is that type of interface be optional and voluntary rather than be forced to depend on clouds which tend to blow with the winds.
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: JeffVolp on November 23, 2018, 10:02:13 AM
It just doesn't make good sense to try to force X10 users to live in a pre-internet 1990's world of Home Automation.

It is neat being able to check on the house while sitting in a motel room with WiFi, but I think it is more important for the house to take care of itself - especially the irrigation in this desert climate - without relying on anything outside other than electricity.

Jeff
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: HA Dave on November 23, 2018, 10:24:56 AM
Nobody is forcing anyone to do anything.

I completely disagree. Chiding any and EVERY post that even mentions using modern technologies..... like this very post from you I am quoting.... is a perfect example.

Control via the Internet has been possible for 20 years or so as I demonstrated when you claimed it was impossible for my BX24-AHT user to monitor and control his Southern California house from his temporary (but long term) assignment in Eastern Canada. And, you can find multiple instances here where I've pointed users to free DDNS servers such as NoIP which allow remote access even when a user's Internet Provider assigns dynamic IP addresses.

You have me mixed up with another poster. You've done that before. I myself used such servers back in the days of dial-up.

All several of us here desire is that type of interface be optional and voluntary rather than be forced to depend on clouds which tend to blow with the winds.

It's ALL voluntary.... Home Automation can't be anything other than voluntary. But.... by it's very definition... automation implies an escape from manual operation. I like your metaphor of "clouds which tend to blow with the winds". It's cute! But technologically.... not terribly accurate. I've been using Homeseer, MyQ, Wink, and Amazon's cloud servers on my (nation-wide) cable internet connection. And except for a little storm repair of the local cable line (summer before last)… there has only been a couple blips of lost connection in the last 2+ years. Certainly nothing noticeable. The same can be said of my phone connection. I can't remember the last time my cell phone loss connection.

Of course.... not every X10, internet, or technology user will experience the same level of connectivity I have. But then again..... it's not like I live in the worlds High-Tech Hub. I am in the mid-west.... cloud technology is NOT something that may exist in the future. Cloud technology is here now... and it works beautifully (this very post is an example).

But anyone can plug a TM751 into their wall, pick-up a palmpad,… and BAM... 1975 automation right there, right now. I even recommended such a setup for a protentional X10 user.... just the other day. (http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=30585.msg177738#msg177738) So obviously I am not anti-old school X10 push-button tech.


http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=30585.msg177738#msg177738
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: HA Dave on November 23, 2018, 10:33:09 AM
…. It is neat being able to check on the house while sitting in a motel room with WiFi, but I think it is more important for the house to take care of itself - especially the irrigation in this desert climate - without relying on anything outside other than electricity.

Or even better..... have the geofencing in your phone and cloud connection see your not home.... and alert you automatically if things aren't as they should be.

As an example:  I like being able to check the status of my garage door when I am away from home. But I love getting notice that the door was left open when I forget it. Once I get the geo-fencing setup.... I will not only be notified... but the door will also close itself.

Jeff has the right/correct idea IMHO. Modern automation isn't remote control or timer control. It's the best technology for the situation taking care of things for us. With or without human input.
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: dhouston on November 23, 2018, 12:03:10 PM
You have me mixed up with another poster. You've done that before. I myself used such servers back in the days of dial-up.
Perhaps this will refresh your memory...
http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=29607.msg166613#msg166613 (http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=29607.msg166613#msg166613)
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: HA Dave on November 23, 2018, 03:11:44 PM
Perhaps this will refresh your memory...
http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=29607.msg166613#msg166613 (http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=29607.msg166613#msg166613)

Yes. EXACTLY as I had posted. I am not sure what your point is... or what you're attempting to accomplish with this banter (if that is what this is).

Yes.... I believe you... the internet, phones, appliances, cars, and other smart devices..... they're all hacked (by Satan himself) and we're all bugged. But... forgive me... I refuse to wear a tinfoil hat... and whisper to my friends while a phonograph blasts in the background.

The available automation technology may not be exactly as anyone here (myself included) would have designed/engineered it to be. But it's what we have to work with. And my intention is to do my best to exploit every ability out there to benefit me the most... period. Because Home Automation is my interest/hobby..... NOT handshake protocol technology. And Home Automation.... IS what this forum is about.
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: brobin on November 24, 2018, 12:45:29 AM
While I use the cloud for many things I realize that it's components exist at the whim of those controlling them. Case in point: I had an Alexa skill to operate two MyQ garage door openers. Worked great and was very handy in reducing the "door open" time which is important since I air conditioned the garage this summer.  A few weeks ago I gave the Alexa command and instead of the door closing Alexa said that the skill for that had been deleted and was no longer available.  BOOM, no notice, no alternatives.  While the loss of the skill wasn't a big deal, it does show how little control we have in "the cloud." 
  Being a belt & suspenders type, I already had a control routine in my Stargate to operate a multi-button opener remote and created an X10 trigger to operate it with Alexa.  As long as HA-Bridge or Alexa itself aren't dropped it'll work forever.
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: dave w on November 24, 2018, 10:41:02 AM

Or even better..... have the geofencing in your phone and cloud connection see your not home.... and alert you automatically if things aren't as they should be.

As an example:  I like being able to check the status of my garage door when I am away from home. But I love getting notice that the door was left open when I forget it. Once I get the geo-fencing setup.... I will not only be notified... but the door will also close itself.

Wow Dave! I am getting worried about you. It appears you frequently leave your home without setting the alarm, or closing the garage door.  rofl     You might put a Z-Wave lock on the front and back doors also.

I'm only kidding, Homeseer alerts me when I leave our door open also.
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: HA Dave on November 24, 2018, 09:52:06 PM
Wow Dave! I am getting worried about you. It appears you frequently leave your home without setting the alarm, or closing the garage door.  rofl     You might put a Z-Wave lock on the front and back doors also.

I'm only kidding, Homeseer alerts me when I leave our door open also.

Over the years..... I couldn't count the number of times I circled back... to check that I'd closed the door behind me (auto-pilot doesn't even use short-term memory). When I got the new [MyQ] chamberlain door opener.... I could just check the app. But with X10 and Homeseer... I setup a [phone] email alert. The entire setup was built around a powerflash(?) module and magnetic reed switch (door sensor).

Since then I switched to using the Wink and MyQ Hubs.... and not X10 and Homeseer for this process. I like the idea of geo-fencing automation for this (and some other processes). I know some others are using geo-fencing (racerfern) and I am anxious to try it
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: HA Dave on November 24, 2018, 10:20:57 PM
While I use the cloud for many things I realize that it's components exist at the whim of those controlling them...……….. it does show how little control we have in "the cloud." 

Being a belt & suspenders type, I already had a control routine in my Stargate to operate a multi-button opener remote and created an X10 trigger to operate it with Alexa.  As long as HA-Bridge or Alexa itself aren't dropped it'll work forever.

Whereas.... maybe nearly half of the American general population doesn't even have working smoke detectors..... Home Automation users tend to have alarms, alerts, and back-ups-a-plenty (plus security cameras to document the events).

I am sure.... a large segment of the Home Automation Community... are belt and suspender types.

You're correct about the vulnerability of the cloud and even the free enterprise system... for that matter. Even Amazon and it's skills "scheme" will at some point... become just a memory. None of this new Web/cloud-based stuff will stay the same for long. It is a moving target the will always require attention and maintenance. But then again... can't that be said about any and every thing.

But I am of the belief that control isn't something that can be kept. I [whole heartedly] believe.... that control is only gained by giving it away. I am not saying I am right (or correct) and I certainly NOT evangelizing my belief system here either.
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: racerfern on November 25, 2018, 11:39:04 AM
@HA Dave - Geofencing is quite cool but will take this thread in another direction so I've emailed you.
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: dave w on November 25, 2018, 02:39:07 PM
Over the years..... I couldn't count the number of times I circled back... to check that I'd closed the door behind me.  But with X10 and Homeseer... I setup a [phone] email alert. The entire setup was built around a powerflash(?) module and magnetic reed switch (door sensor).
Pretty much describes my set-up. I took it one step farther. When we tell Homeseer we are leaving. After the door is opened, if it isn't closed in 10 minutes, Homeseer blow the two minute warning piezo alert in the garage and then closes the door. However I like the idea of geo-fencing. I tried it a couple of years ago, but found it unreliable. I had a USB Bluetooth receiver in the Homeseer computer to detect our cell phones when we came home. I think it might have been a bad BT receiver, because it was totally undependable. But I like the idea of a second attempt.
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: dave w on November 25, 2018, 02:43:52 PM
@HA Dave - Geofencing is quite cool but will take this thread in another direction so I've emailed you.
I think we might have beat the radar bulb to death, but I for one am interested in a geo-fencing project. Since HA Dave started this thread and he is also interested in fencing I think railroading this into another discussion would be OK.  HA Dave?
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting segue to Geo-fencing
Post by: racerfern on November 25, 2018, 04:45:01 PM
I use Geofencing with Homeseer and a plug-in called PHLocation. It works with both android and iPhone.
When I went on vacation, I left my work phone with a co-worker. Was he stopping at all the work sites? I've purposely cut off his start/stop location. Each of those points shows date and time when you click on them.

I also have Homeseer announce via Google home that "Dad will be home soon" when I enter my home zipcode which generally leaves 10-15 minutes before I actually walk in the door. In reality this isn't geo-fencing but more like geolocation. The app I use (Backitude) is no longer supported but I do have it as an .apk for anyone interested. Set up on the kid's phones and rest assured they're where they say they are. However, there are lots of apps that allow things like that.

https://forums.homeseer.com/forum/telephone-text-and-email-plug-ins/telephone-text-and-email-integration-discussion/phlocation-sooty (https://forums.homeseer.com/forum/telephone-text-and-email-plug-ins/telephone-text-and-email-integration-discussion/phlocation-sooty)

Geo-fencing is similar to drawing a boundary around your home so the garage door opens when you're within that boundary for example. I'm not interested in that, since as I pull up I can just say "Hey Google, open the garage door" and my android phone does its thing.

That said, most apps require an API key and it seems some companies are no longer interested in allowing access by individual developers and users. Geofencing is certainly a moving target so it might be a bit of a challenge to find what works for an individual.

There's also "tasker" for android and some equivalents for iphone. This should allow you to set up geo stuff without homeseer.

I'm not sure how much Dave W and HA Dave know about this so I may have only stated the obvious to you two. If so, sorry.

Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting segue to Geo-fencing
Post by: dave w on November 25, 2018, 06:22:33 PM

I'm not sure how much Dave W and HA Dave know about this so I may have only stated the obvious to you two. If so, sorry.
My initial thought was to use Bluetooth to detect home arrival. This is all new to me, so thank you very much!
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: racerfern on November 25, 2018, 08:00:00 PM
I think by the time your phone bluetooth connects to something at home, you'll already have gotten out of your car. Wifi would be a bit better but not by enough to make a difference, IMO.

My android phone knows whether  I'm walking or riding bicycle, out on the boat or driving and is quite good at figuring things out. So GPS location/speed go a long way toward solving things.

Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: HA Dave on November 25, 2018, 09:08:14 PM
….. I think railroading this into another discussion would be OK.  HA Dave?

Of course. I have no problem with letting most threads take a natural, conversational course... and evolve. 

My wife and I tend to use the garage door as more of a people door.... as we do our own yard work (no landscaper or mowing service). I could set the MyQ door opener to automatically close the garage door... no problem. But I am really only concerned both my wife and I being gone and the door being accidently left open.

I currently use a  tracker app with my cycling hobby (I normally [road] bicycle a couple thousand miles a year). As I understand it… the geo-tracking is similar as in the way it works.

The desired result of geo-tracking would be... as an example... say My wife leaves for work in the AM and shortly afterwards I leave for a 3 or 4 hours bicycle ride. An hour later the temperture warms (or cools) and the AC (or heat) that would normally come on... doesn't because our phones ratted us out as being away from home. Similarly... if we (I) left the garage door open (or the alarm off) it would automatily close the door (or arm the alarm). The possiabilitys aren't exactly endless... but very helpful.
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting segue to Geo-fencing
Post by: HA Dave on November 25, 2018, 09:21:35 PM
. most apps require an API key and it seems some companies are no longer interested in allowing access by individual developers and users. Geofencing is certainly a moving target so it might be a bit of a challenge to find what works for an individual.

The local power company is offering a steep discount on a Nest (smart) thermostat... which will pair with either/both(?) Amazon and my Wink Hub.... and includes (as I understand it from a user I know) a built-in (cloud) geo-fencing ability. I am hoping to maybe piggy-back this ability for use with other devices (like the garage door).

racerfern is correct. Much of this stuff... remains moving targets. I don't expect many of the devices used today to remain viable for long periods into the future. This is... or may be... a once in a lifetime golden period in Home Automation tech developement and innovation. I want to ride to beast as far as I can.

Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: HA Dave on November 26, 2018, 12:18:50 PM
I've had a chance to sleep on this thread... and I like the idea that the subject matter has diverted. Now it's on the cusp of Home Automation abilities and the technological-digital divide that separates generations, peoples, and even our wonderful shared interest here.

Whereas... a motion sensing lightbulb is at it's core a basic ONE STEP piece of Home Automation (just screw in the bulb). Geolocation and cloud based automation... live at the opposite end of the current technology spectrum.   

Not that the far end most high tech is complex or difficult... for the most part these products set-up using a app on a smart phone. The main difference is the "purchase". With my X10.... I can have PalmPads though out the house (and the garage)… and they work. Failures are my own problem (no customer service involved) and.... no monthly bills and/or fee's for service. Even the X10 security console operated without a monthly fee (or profession monitoring).

And, the main problem with the new WM-100.... is how long (and well) will the servers continue to provide functionally to our (fee based) smart phones. The "FREE" service provided by the servers that handle WM-100 traffic isn't free to everyone. Someone has to pay that bill. And like the free server service provided by [old] X10.... that service can disappear overnight.

I have said for years (mostly at bicycle forums). If you can't fix it... you don't own ityou're merely renting it from the repairman.

Yes. Cloud based Home Automation is a rental solution. Without the $126 US dollars paid to Amazon annually.... Alexa loses much(?) of it's function. I can NOT own the many great functions now available with cloud based solutions. These solutions are often fee based... like the professional monitoring of an alarm system... or even the alarms cellular connection for calling out.

You can NOT own this... you can only rent it. Often when we post about cloud based products and solutions.... we're referring to fee based services.
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: racerfern on November 27, 2018, 04:50:02 PM
@HA Dave - Neither Alexa or Google home require you to spend anything other than buying the device. Both Amazon and Google require you setup an account, obviously that's where they track what you do with the device but that's it. No subscriptions needed, no other services required.

I'm not sure how long some of the smaller cloud based services will be around, X10 included. Even Google has a reputation for starting something and then abandoning it. However for every project that goes by the wayside, there are usually others very willing to step in because they think they've figured out how to make money at it. We're all constantly trying to improve our setups without spending more.

BTW, everything critical on my z-wave system is stored and activated locally. I go to a cloud to see how windy it is and then a little math determines whether the awning goes out or stays in. I also do this for watering needs. However, if I ever buy the new weather station I want then I can own my own little cloud as the data would be stored on my PC.

Have you done anything with geofencing/geolocation?
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: HA Dave on November 27, 2018, 11:36:36 PM
@HA Dave - Neither Alexa or Google home require you to spend anything other than buying the device. ...……

True... you could re-order Amazon product(s), turn on a light, or get weather, etc.. But Music is a big use product for Amazons device and the free tunes do require a prime membership. Plus... the broadband connection and for most ways it's used, a smart phone and connection. Far more capital connections than an X10 transceiver and a remote.

….Have you done anything with geofencing/geolocation?

No. Not yet. Hard to believe I've gotten much done around the house (and with my hobbies) at all... considering the weather we've had (and my own disruptions). Even though I do try to dedicate..... the cold months after the New Year... and before the warmer cycling and mowing weather to Home Automation projects. I've been doing things with my setup all year. Hence the experiment with a radar lightbulb.

Last year.... I committed to reimagining (reinventing) my Home Automation setup..... and it's really has proven to be a worthwhile and interesting experiment. My proudest X10 macro/accomplishment... my garage door macro (http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=14721.msg81860#msg81860).... is no longer a macro (or X10) at all. My garage door status is part cloud based MyQ robot and part Homeseer program. And still awaits a geolocation command to close the door.

Don't get me wrong.... I love what I've been able to do with a CM15A (and a computer running 24/7) over the years. But it's just not in my nature to leave well enough alone.

I just picked up a Nest, (3rd gen, WiFi, learning,) thermostat. The local power and gas company's are both offering rebates... while Home Depot (and everywhere else) has them on sale. Which turned the once pricey smart device into a $79 money/energy saver. I couldn't past it up. It is supposed to (be able to) use phone location for set-back/turn-on functions.
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: racerfern on November 28, 2018, 07:38:31 AM
So much for not wanting to be plugged into a mother ship.

Google will play lots of music without a subscrtiption.

I use the Honeywell programmable t'stats and they link to Homeseer so I can use geolocation with them if I want.

I've got all sorts of events keeping tabs on my garage door but I still haven't setup automatic closing. I'm more worried about forgetting to lock the front door so I'm considering a z-wave lock when I put in a new front door.

And to think I once had a CP/M add-on cartridge for my Commodore 64!
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: JeffVolp on November 28, 2018, 09:25:06 AM
But Music is a big use product for Amazons device and the free tunes do require a prime membership.

We have been listening to Pandora on Alexa the last two years for free.  Sure, you can't get a specific song, and they occasionally pop in a brief commercial, but there are plenty of choices.

Jeff
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: brobin on November 28, 2018, 11:13:48 AM
We do the same thing. We've been using Pandora since the day 1.  Alexa even remembers the last channel you selected. We have several custom channels as well as some standard ones and hardly ever hear a commercial. BTW, if you want to listen ad free from a PC and be able to record, check out: http://ridetheclown.com/wp/saver2/
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: bkenobi on November 28, 2018, 01:45:59 PM
I had a SMS based control scheme set up with AHP years ago utilizing Google Voice.  It worked great for a long time until Google Voice turned off the lights.  In that case I didn't spend anything on hardware or software, but my control scheme stopped working.  Since things were run off their server, I was left with no control over things that worked the day prior.  "Things change", "moving target...", etc...  I know all that but that doesn't mean that things in automation are all acceptable to suddenly stop working.

I automated an attic fan using X10 as the switch mechanism and an Arduino and some sensors as the logic.  The goal of that project was to reduce moisture in the attic through proper ventilation and do so a little smarter than the binary temperature or humidity sensors were doing.  This is a critical system for the home in my case because mold will cause significant health problems for SO should the system be shut off by the server if it were cloud based.  I have a controller for my shower fan that is very simple that adjusts fan speed based on occupancy.  This is more for noise control and less of an issue with things stopping function.  My outdoor lights are mostly timer based but I do have motion sensor control on some.  If they were to stop functioning I would have a safety and security concern.

When the control is simply for convenience (not having to grab 3 remotes to adjust lights and TV volume in a theater), that is different than critical systems.  Those systems have a real job that cannot stop when Google turns off a feature.
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: Tuicemen on November 28, 2018, 02:08:02 PM
Google is notorious for turning off HA features.
Their disabling of the Philips Hue API created software bridges for Google Home is just another example in recent times of them sticking it to the HA crowd.  ::) :'
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: HA Dave on November 28, 2018, 11:07:50 PM
So much for not wanting to be plugged into a mother ship.

I most certainly DO want to be connected.

Don't get me wrong (and I know you won't)... I am plenty old enough to remember when AM radio was king, 45 RPM records were in, and TV's only came in Black & White. I remember people who avoided, owning (or watching) TV, people who called FM radio Highbrow, and so forth. I didn't make them bad people.... nor did their denial make their lives more enriched either.   

The past was a great place! It would be a wonderful destination to visit... if that was possible. But we can't visit the past any more than we can live in it. Todays present will fade away as I doze off tonight. All I can do is embrace the new day... tomorrow. 

I love this tech stuff. It's a hobby and I enjoy it.
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: HA Dave on November 28, 2018, 11:27:39 PM
Google is notorious for turning off HA features.

I would not be surprised if half the high tech automation stuff I am installing now.... is failed trash in a few months. I don't even look at it as a gamble. I feel certain that much of this stuff is a flash-in-the-pan. And like the old X10's AHP servers... things can and will come crashing down with little warning.

Even my $12-$14 radar lightbulb (which inspired this thread) proved to be a wasted experiment. Maybe someday... I might find a good use for it... but the laundry room wasn't it. I think MOST of my experiments and tests are a waste.... as far as finding useful products.

But the good stuff... the stuff that really works... like Amazons Echo devices and all the cloud based services and abilities.... make up for all the stuff that doesn't work.

Of course all the failed attempts didn't create Alexa. But the bold steps forward (that everyone here at these forum understands)... is what helped create the marketplace for home automation products. I don't know where all this new stuff is going.... but I am enjoying the journey to wherever it is. And it IS a journey... no great home automation setup.... is ever complete or finished. This is a hobby and a lifestyle... not a set of specs.

P.S. I decided to install a wired-in motion sensing switch in the laundry room (to replace the radar bulb). But... to do that I need to rewire a section. Not a problem (except for my back). Meanwhile I added a new LED light controlled by one of those "eye" sensors and an appliance module.
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: HA Dave on November 29, 2018, 07:32:00 AM
..... I've got all sorts of events keeping tabs on my garage door but I still haven't setup automatic closing. I'm more worried about forgetting to lock the front door so I'm considering a z-wave lock when I put in a new front door.

We have a lot in common racerfern... except I am sure you have a better setup than mine. The wife just recently drove off and forgot to close the garage door (leaving it open). Although I live in a nice area.... my neighborhood is also subject to a little rush hour traffic. I don't like having that big two-car garage door wide open. It is impossible to "spot" an unlocked entry door while driving past a home... but a big old open garage door stands out like a welcome sign.

But... being a bit of a do-it-yourselfer... it's normal for me (and my wife) to work in the garage with the garage door open. I wouldn't want a program, macro, robot, or automated process that wouldn't allow for that door to remain open. Yet... the wife going to work and leaving a big door open while I sleep... isn't desirable either. And even though I get updates on my phone if the door is left open... as of this morning... I hadn't started taking my phone into the bedroom at night.

Previously I had in-house voice announcements from my BVC (voice control software running on a 24/7 laptop). Which I shutdown as part of my re-imagining of my setup. MAYBE.... I can setup a Alexa reminder or routine of some sort... when the door is open.

Thanks racerfern for nudging me towards finding a solution to what is realistically my biggest security flaw... and automation failure. 


Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: racerfern on November 29, 2018, 08:36:34 AM
I get a text message when the garage door opens.
I get a text message every five minutes it remains open.
Then if I'm working in the garage or want if open for whatever reason, I run a HS event that disables the five minute warning for one hour. After one hour it goes back to a warning every five minutes unless I disable the warning for another hour or close the garage door.
Finally, I get a text message when the garage door closes.

I just need to create a simple event that says if the garage has been open "X" time, then close it. I really don't know why I haven't bothered to do it, but probably because I've never left it open accidentally.

I put my phones on silent at bedtime, so getting a text or email won't fly. However, I do have two Aeotec doorbell ringers. One is activated by the opening of any one of the three doors we have (excluding garage), the other one sits in the bedroom and will ding whenever I set an event to notify me of something. Of course I don't know why it's dinging other than it was told to ding by some event I wrote. It actually will hold lots of different mp3 sounds so I could have mp3 sound files that say "Garage door open", "Water leak", etc. Hmm, I'll have to think about that.
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: bkenobi on November 29, 2018, 11:12:01 AM
Android has a "do not disturb" mode.  This can be overridden by certain things (defined phone numbers, email addresses, etc).  I get email on Sunday mornings from my soccer league that I really don't need to know about at 4:30AM but if my wife were to call, I better answer it...
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: brobin on November 29, 2018, 12:14:12 PM
I have my garage doors set to close after 10 minutes IF the security system is armed based on the assumption that if we're gone or sleeping they should be closed.  But what if we're working in the garage or one of us leaves it open while the other is still home?  In the first case the door should remain open and in the second it should close.  That can be done with a switch or motion detector.  Pressing a momentary switch or triggering a motion detector could start a retriggerable countdown timer.  Upon expiration of the timer, if a door was still open a command to close it would be sent.  If the timer was triggered by a motion detector then I would probably choose a 15 minute timer retriggered by continued motion but if it used a pushbutton trigger then maybe an hour.  Although I have a MyQ hub it's not smart enough to do this.
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: racerfern on November 29, 2018, 02:21:40 PM
Quote
I have my garage doors set to close after 10 minutes IF the security system is armed
Why not just make the garage door part of the alarm arming, then it won't arm if the door is open.

Considering that most of us have door and motion sensors scattered around the house for various reasons, seeing motion from some of those sensors would indicate someone's home. You should be able to select which sensors to watch for and leave the garage door open based on that. For instance my door from the garage to the laundry room has a door sensor and the overhead light in the garage has a motion sensor. It would be easy enough to create a Homeseer event that will reset the garage door timer if these two keep activating. Also quite easy to warn that the garage door is going to close once the timer hits xx minutes. Lots of possibilities.
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: brobin on November 29, 2018, 03:32:00 PM
Quote
I have my garage doors set to close after 10 minutes IF the security system is armed
Why not just make the garage door part of the alarm arming, then it won't arm if the door is open.

When leaving we arm the Caddx security system from a keypad inside the house, then open the door during the exit delay and press a button in the garage to open the left or right garage door.  So typically the garage doors are already closed during arming.  When the garage door opens an alarm contact closes telling the Stargate controller to start a 10 minute timer.  Expiration of the timer triggers an event that says IF the timer is expiring AND a garage door is open AND the alarm is armed THEN close the garage door.  If we're arming before going to bed and a garage door is open the timer will start and close the door in 10 minutes.  But your idea got me thinking -:) ... I don't need that delay when arming in stay mode so I can eliminate or shorten the timer for that as the Stargate knows the difference between armed away and armed stay. Thanks!
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: HA Dave on November 29, 2018, 08:33:23 PM
I get a text message when the garage door opens.
I get a text message every five minutes it remains open.... I put my phones on silent at bedtime, so getting a text or email won't fly.

I've deliberately moved my notifications to my phone (as opposed to my BVC announcements).... as my phone is always with me... and I am often not home.

I do have two Aeotec doorbell ringers..... It actually will hold lots of different mp3 sounds so I could have mp3 sound files that say "Garage door open", "Water leak", etc. Hmm, I'll have to think about that.

That sounds nice too.

I think for me.... I need to learn to take the phone to bed with me. Or... adapt something to extend my phone sounds through out the house. Maybe.
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: Tuicemen on November 30, 2018, 06:33:22 AM
My pc sees all messages recieved by my phone and alerts me. You might be able to utilize that as a back up option for when your phone becomes ungluded from your side. rofl
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: HA Dave on November 30, 2018, 06:10:29 PM
My pc sees all messages recieved by my phone and alerts me. You might be able to utilize that as a back up option for when your phone becomes ungluded from your side. rofl 

I am a little addicted to my laptop(s). I have (a nice) one I use for most of my social-media, document/photo management, forums, and shopping. But even though I ran a PC or laptop 24/7 for many years.... I shut that down with my reimagining of my Home Automation setup... several months ago.

More than once I tried to convert to a tablet as an Internet device... but they've always seemed a little underpowered and slow. But more and more.... I do much of what I do on-line.... with my iPhone. Although many people I know have already beat me to "phone computing only".... I am not there yet. Maybe with the next gen/model of iPhone. We'll see.
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: Tuicemen on November 30, 2018, 06:29:02 PM
Since your homeseer is basically a mini computer  you should beable to add sound capabilities to it. There are add on boards for Pis to provide good quality sound, however there may not be room inside your hub for one. Or you can just get a new iphone and put your current one next to your bed  rofl
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: HA Dave on November 30, 2018, 09:37:49 PM
Since your homeseer is basically a mini computer  you should beable to add sound capabilities to it. There are add on boards for Pis to provide good quality sound, however there may not be room inside your hub for one.

I had really considered that (even made some MP3 and wav files). I had an idea of even using a Bluetooth speaker system. That would still have allowed me to remove the hardwired speaker system (which I did) yet still maintained a way to announce things.... in house.

But... my premise with reimagining my setup was NOT to just recreate the same automation (using different products and/or protocols). But to disassemble my own paradigms of what good automation is.... while at the same time disassembling the macros, parts and pieces. And then making something better. It doesn't mean I will never return to the whole-house wired setup either. But 1st I want to explore any and every other way to create something much better.

In MY imagination... better would be more along the concept of a virtual companion. Which... with todays technology that would mean using a phone.

Or you can just get a new iphone and put your current one next to your bed  rofl

I did keep my OLD iPhone. And I tried using it as remote device in my Home Theater. It constantly needed updates and upgrades. And wasn't as helpful as I had imaged it might be. But then again.... the Home Theater hasn't remained untouched my reimagining either. The theater has had a major upgrade/re-vamp. And the theater lighting can be controlled 3 different ways now.

I like the idea of NON-centralized control (or full, autonomous, automated, non-control). I like the idea that a system/part/device could fail... yet most things would continue to work. 
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: HA Dave on November 30, 2018, 10:30:08 PM
Thinking..... about loud speaker phone sounds. https://www.amazon.com/Pterxiog-Wireless-Portable-Superior-Bluetooth/dp/B01N4KFX9D/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1543631038&sr=8-4&keywords=iphone+boom+box (https://www.amazon.com/Pterxiog-Wireless-Portable-Superior-Bluetooth/dp/B01N4KFX9D/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1543631038&sr=8-4&keywords=iphone+boom+box)

I'd seen one of these in a store once. It was/is designed to increase volume (and bass) for music. But I think it might/would do the same for rings and alert sounds too. It might required a little timer and/or switch automation/magic to make it function reliability.... as it's supposed to be charged and then used (10 hour battery life).

Taking the phone to bed.... sounds better the more I think about it. 
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: racerfern on December 01, 2018, 06:46:36 AM
I would never take my phone to bed, even with the Do Not Disturb feature that I can override. I don't like the idea of micro-managing all the apps on the phone to see which ones are allowed through and which ones are not.

That's why the https://amzn.to/2rdLEQL (https://amzn.to/2rdLEQL) is appealing to me. Any one of a dozen different events in Homeseer that I consider important enough will activate the second bell I keep in the bedroom. I can plug it into the PC and add more sounds as I see fit. I believe it will take 100 different mp3 files.
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: HA Dave on December 01, 2018, 03:37:56 PM
I would never take my phone to bed....
That's why the https://amzn.to/2rdLEQL (https://amzn.to/2rdLEQL) is appealing to me. Any one of a dozen different events in Homeseer that I consider important enough will activate the second bell I keep in the bedroom. I can plug it into the PC and add more sounds as I see fit. I believe it will take 100 different mp3 files.

It can be tough (life is good when it's Home Automation decisions that are tough) to decide how to handle alerts. Your Aeotec, 5th Gen, Doorbell looks nice. I used to have a perimeter alert with an X10 chime in the bedroom... then later added the (BVC) voice announcement. Any movement around the house alerted me (as did the garage door opening or remaining open). My area is infected with deer. I've seen many, many deer over the years (taken lots of pictures of them). Even some racoons, possums, and ground hogs triggered my perimeter alert.

I read somewhere of a home security camera with face detection.... it (reportedly) can tell the difference between a person and an animal of some sort (like people aren't also animals). But no technology on the way to tell whether or not a garage door was left open accidently.... or purposely.

Maybe something simple... like the entry door into the garage having a WiFi and/or RFID lock. So the door into the home, always locks behind the person leaving... but is also always open to the authorized person entering.
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: Tuicemen on December 01, 2018, 07:36:52 PM
Previously I had in-house voice announcements from my BVC (voice control software running on a 24/7 laptop). Which I shutdown as part of my re-imagining of my setup. MAYBE.... I can setup a Alexa reminder or routine of some sort... when the door is open.
 
This got me realizing how much I miss my kate 16 voice notifications now that I moved my HA from the PC to a PI.
I spent most of today looking into sending sound notifications to a BT speaker and it payed off.
Now I just need some Alexa sound (wav) files of a half decent quality ::) :'
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: racerfern on December 01, 2018, 07:52:20 PM
Quote
Maybe something simple... like the entry door into the garage having a WiFi and/or RFID lock. So the door into the home, always locks behind the person leaving... but is also always open to the authorized person entering.

Simple, I'm sure you're being facetious. We'll have to embed an RFID chip between your shoulder blades, install an RFID reader on each side of the door to determine direction, then....
Simple??

You want simple? I have one of these on every interior and exterior door, even the shed outside. http://bit.ly/2FRdOer and a few of these http://bit.ly/2Q55Nap scattered around the house. Check the size difference compared to a z-wave motion sensor. And, the z-wave is even smaller than the X10 sensor. https://photos.app.goo.gl/VNR3uZ37p4WZbNqG6

You should look at getting a zigbee board to attach to your pi https://amzn.to/2ACYj3K. I have door sensors, motion sensors, water leak sensors, all for a fraction of some X10 or z-wave stuff. Obviously nothing beats what you already have, but if you're thinking of changing or adding...
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: HA Dave on December 01, 2018, 10:28:33 PM
….. I miss my kate 16 voice notifications now that I moved my HA from the PC to a PI.
I spent most of today looking into sending sound notifications to a BT speaker and it payed off.
Now I just need some Alexa sound (wav) files of a half decent quality ::) :'

The most recent Alexa app allows the user to type in custom Alexa responses in the routines. You could use the audio jack on an echo to a PC audio in... I think.

Also... the Alexa Voice Remote (https://www.amazon.com/Alexa-Voice-Remote-Amazon-Echo/dp/B01E9AHU8Q/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1543721152&sr=8-6&keywords=amazon+remote) allows you to make Alexa speak/repeat your words... in Alexa's voice (I have one).

I can't even guess the number of times I've thought about ordering a PC stick.... and loading BVC (and Kate).
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: HA Dave on December 01, 2018, 10:43:08 PM

Simple, I'm sure you're being facetious. We'll have to embed an RFID chip between your shoulder blades, install an RFID reader on each side of the door to determine direction, then....
Simple?? 

I do have a doctor friend... I always thought the RFID chip would be best in that hollow area... between the thumb and 1st finger... on my right hand. But that's just me.

But the simpler way.... would be a Samsung RFID and number/keypad dead bolt (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009TYO93W/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?smid=A3JJPBW9Z68A27&psc=1) or similar product/lock. The RFID tag(s) could attach to a key chain... making unlocking a nearly natural action... but merely waving the keys/tag by the lock. And the keypad would prevent accidental lock-out. Admittedly... not a perfect solution... but better than nothing and certainly automated.

I should mention.... I discussed this briefly with the building/property/lifestyle manager.... and she promised she'll think about it. WAF is always a big consideration with my setups.
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: Tuicemen on December 02, 2018, 07:06:40 AM

Also... the Alexa Voice Remote (https://www.amazon.com/Alexa-Voice-Remote-Amazon-Echo/dp/B01E9AHU8Q/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1543721152&sr=8-6&keywords=amazon+remote) allows you to make Alexa speak/repeat your words... in Alexa's voice (I have one).
The Simon says option will also work for recording. It is to bad TTS wasn't available for the Alexa voice.
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: racerfern on December 02, 2018, 07:54:41 AM
http://bit.ly/2QbCnr9 sounds like any one of us.
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: HA Dave on December 02, 2018, 05:30:51 PM
http://bit.ly/2QbCnr9 sounds like any one of us. 

I agree completely. Home Automation has historically only been a niche market. With a small yet active community of core users. But Home Automation usership is up.... Home Automation is coming of age and attracting millions of "the interested". But at it's core is a "community" of users that truly embrace the lifestyle. But even the core community of this fast growing technology.... isn't in agreement in use or adaptation of products.

I do believe that future of Home Automation... and maybe all advanced technologies... is IN the use of Artificial Intelligence. And I believe human connectivity to each other and all our devices via AI is the inevitable future of mankind. Maybe not in my lifetime. But then again.... it's been years since I wasn't connected.
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: dhouston on January 02, 2019, 02:23:59 PM
I stumbled upon a story about Google applying this Doppler radar technology for use with smart watches.
https://www.engadget.com/2019/01/02/google-wins-fcc-approval-to-keep-developing-radar-based-hand-sen/ (https://www.engadget.com/2019/01/02/google-wins-fcc-approval-to-keep-developing-radar-based-hand-sen/)

https://www.engadget.com/2015/05/29/atap-project-soli/ (https://www.engadget.com/2015/05/29/atap-project-soli/)

The few watches I've tried are nearly impossible to manage via their onscreen displays so this could be an excellent application.
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: dhouston on January 04, 2019, 08:15:02 AM
The Washington Post also has an article about Google's Doppler Radar tech...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/01/03/google-moves-closer-creating-minority-report-style-sensors-controlling-devices-with-hand-gestures/?utm_term=.c8687e54bdce (https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/01/03/google-moves-closer-creating-minority-report-style-sensors-controlling-devices-with-hand-gestures/?utm_term=.c8687e54bdce)
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: bkenobi on January 04, 2019, 12:38:37 PM
I just picked up a couple of overhead lights from Costco that may use radar (not sure).  There is no motion sensor visible and no lens typical of a PIR.  I plugged it in just to see if it would cause X10 issues and it only drops the signal strength slightly.  If it's bright enough, I'm going to put one or two in my laundry room.

https://www.costco.com/Koda-Motion-Activated-LED-Ceiling-Light-with-Remote-Control.product.100409306.html (https://www.costco.com/Koda-Motion-Activated-LED-Ceiling-Light-with-Remote-Control.product.100409306.html)

The only down side I see upon initial inspection is that I don't think it uses a standard box mount and may require installing some kind of screws in the ceiling.  I didn't look close enough to confirm, but the mounting holes appeared a bit wider than the ~3-4" bracket.  I didn't see a bracket in the package, but the link above lists one so it shouldn't be a problem.
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: dhouston on January 04, 2019, 01:11:00 PM
One of the bad reviews said it interfered with their WiFi so that probably means it is radar. The fact that you can set the motion detector distance also would indicate radar.
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: bkenobi on January 04, 2019, 05:22:40 PM
Hmmm, well my wifi was dead last night but I have been having some issues with my router recently so it could be coincidence.  If others have that issue, I will probably pass.  HD and Lowes both sell simple LED lights for about 50% less that I find have no issues with X10.

I thought the motion detection might be cool but I'm not going to bother if it's more likely to cause problems with existing systems.
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: HA Dave on January 05, 2019, 05:39:01 AM
One of the bad reviews said it interfered with their WiFi so that probably means it is radar. The fact that you can set the motion detector distance also would indicate radar.

Hmmm, well my wifi was dead last night but I have been having some issues with my router recently so it could be coincidence.

I am with dhouston on this. I'd guess that the WiFi trouble may be related.... or at least worth an investigation. I own/purchased my router... as I heard unkind reports of cable-company provided (rental) routers. But with added speeds and number of users/devices/etc. new routers aren't cheap.

If others have that issue, I will probably pass.  HD and Lowes both sell simple LED lights for about 50% less that I find have no issues with X10.
I thought the motion detection might be cool but I'm not going to bother if it's more likely to cause problems with existing systems.

The Radar detection (bulb) I tried in my basement laundry room didn't work out..... for me. The radar would pick-up movement too easily... was on when unneeded too often. But in the remote area where it was located, I never noticed any WiFi issues.

Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: bkenobi on January 07, 2019, 11:41:57 AM
My router issues seem unrelated and I've been looking for an upgrade for a while.  I keep seeing WiFi 6 routers being discussed around the web, so I haven't decided if I'll get something for now or the future (the current routers are 10+ years old but the old trusty Linksys WRT54G models).

I may just use these lights anyway since it appears my HD upped the price on basic fixtures above what these fancy ones from Costco cost.  $60 for 2 of these at Costco versus a minimum of $54 for very basic units at Lowes.  I can disable the motion detection on these and still get the benefit of adjustable light levels and color tones.  FWIW, they work with X10 but do drop my signal strength slightly right next to the fixtures.  Probably not an issue overall.
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: HA Dave on January 07, 2019, 03:42:30 PM
. I've been looking for an upgrade for a while.  I keep seeing WiFi 6 routers being discussed around the web, so I haven't decided if I'll get something for now or the future .

I wish I knew what the future is going to offer. 17 years ago I fished CAT5 through the house (as the old WiFi was unreliable and painfully slow). I was about to pull the wires out as my wifi now is awesome. Then..... my blue-Ray player/streaming device in the Home Theater works best with a hardwire (CAT6) connection. Plus.... I learned I could likely get by with most devices using the Cable company's city (nation) wide broadband connection. And just use the Cable company's provided router for a CAT6 wired setup.

I have no idea what will be available or needed with tomorrows broadband.
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: brobin on January 07, 2019, 04:15:04 PM
I was about to pull the wires out as my wifi now is awesome. Then..... my blue-Ray player/streaming device in the Home Theater works best with a hardwire (CAT6) connection. Plus.... I learned I could likely get by with most devices using the Cable company's city (nation) wide broadband connection. And just use the Cable company's provided router for a CAT6 wired setup.

I have no idea what will be available or needed with tomorrows broadband.

There are some devices that still work best with Ethernet like the Tivo Mini's. We have a 6 tuner TIVO in the living room equipped with a free Comcast multicast cable card so our equipment bill is exactly $0 (we own our cable modem and router too).  We have Tivo Mini's on each of the other TV's in the house so it's like having Tivo everywhere. BUT, they specifically say NOT to use WiFi as the performance will not be acceptable - probably because the boxes are stuck on the back of the TV's. Ethernet is preferred or, if not wired, the Tivo's support MOCA as well.

I'm curious, even if you no longer needed the Ethernet cabling why would you pull it out unless it's exposed?
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: HA Dave on January 08, 2019, 06:38:53 PM
I'm curious, even if you no longer needed the Ethernet cabling why would you pull it out unless it's exposed?

It wasn't exposed.

I am an old wire-twister from ages ago. I actually feed the wires to the proper wall plates.... in a style and color that matches the room(s). Removing the wires would have meant patching and repainting the walls as well. That's just proper home maintenance as far as I am concerned. I've seen homes with signs of outdated and often semi-removed technology. Like old iron radiators (no loner in use) or even just the old 2-wire phone plugs (they used bell wire). I don't like the "half-done look".

One old adage is to maintain a home like your going to sell it. I don't know if that is a good thing for everyone..... but it works for me.
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: brobin on January 08, 2019, 09:03:32 PM
Ethernet is far from obsolete but if a jack were unsightly I'd either put a blank on it or properly patch the wall and abandon the cable in place inside the walls. If any cables were surface mounted that would be another story.
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: HA Dave on January 08, 2019, 11:02:28 PM
... if a jack were unsightly

Unsightly? I don't know about unsightly..... I think "tacky" would be the correct word.

. abandon the cable in place inside the walls. .

Fishing or pulling, finishing or removing... details do matter. I hate wires that lead to nowhere.... and I've tracked down a few too. I couldn't just leave wires in a wall. Don't get me wrong.... modern living creates plenty of "cord clutter". I accept that life can be messy. But I don't create a mess that lasts forever.... just to save a few minutes in proper clean-up. 
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: bkenobi on January 09, 2019, 12:26:43 PM
Leaving a blank plate with old wiring in place that will never be used isn't necessarily a bad thing though.  If you want to install a new cable then having the old one to use as the pulling wire would be very helpful.  I had coax installed in my parents house for Ethernet in the 90's and it worked great.  Twisted pair is the standard today, but they could have technically used it for network if they wanted.  Or, they could use it for some other technology.  Or they could have pulled a new wire for a future tech with it.  Their home was a little different though as it had plaster walls that were not easily patched to be seamless.  So, we only installed in existing low voltage plates and would have put blanks over should we not need them again.  I don't consider a blank plate unsightly or tacky, but that's location dependent.  In a fancy entry probably would not be good, but in an office...whatever.
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: HA Dave on January 09, 2019, 05:06:12 PM
….. I don't consider a blank plate unsightly or tacky, but that's location dependent.

It doesn't really matter. I don't mean to criticize anyone's maintenance, work, or decorative habits. There is no "national standard" that I am aware of (I joke). I was asked why I would pull unused wiring... and I answered.

I recently removed (outdated) hardwired speakers and wiring. While at the same time re-wired some speakers in my Theater. It would be ideal to have a wiring closet….. but in the early 1940's (when my home was built) people didn't think about that. I've considered a retrofit (to create one)…. but it isn't practical at this point.

I have old coax (cable TV) in 7 rooms of the house too. And at this point.... that is beginning to look like yesterdays technology too. To me.... old dead wires in the house.... are like old dead plants in the landscape.
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: JeffVolp on January 09, 2019, 06:26:20 PM
I have old coax (cable TV) in 7 rooms of the house too. And at this point.... that is beginning to look like yesterdays technology too.

I took advantage of the coax runs for TiVo's MOCA Ethernet link.  It saved having to pull Cat5 into the bedrooms.

Jeff
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: HA Dave on January 09, 2019, 10:00:57 PM

I took advantage of the coax runs for TiVo's MOCA Ethernet link.  It saved having to pull Cat5 into the bedrooms.
Jeff

I like the idea of re-use. But I now have three Roku and one Apple streaming devices. And only one (cable) set-top box (which requires a coax connection). It seems as if most of the people in my area have switched to the various streaming services. As many of the services create their own content (or actually contract it's creation)…. some of the best entertainment seen on TV isn't available on cable (let alone broadcast).

I am kind'a hooked on Netflex myself... and was thrilled to find a third season of Travelers (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyEijpJ9YL0) now available.

But... I am not so hooked on TV..... that I feel compelled to have access to everything. And dollar for dollar I am OK with the cable service at this time. But.... I can easily see the day I cut the cord completely with the cable company. And if the planned (old TV frequency) high speed wireless broadband ever becomes what it was advertised to be..... my Internet connection will consist of nothing other than a secret password (and a monthly bill, of course). No wires, modem, or router... just logon. After all.... I watch "cable TV" streamed on 3 Roku devices now (via a Spectrum app).

It may not be this spring, or next summer, or ever for that matter. But I can see a time in the very near future when the old phone wire and cable TV cables..... serve no modern purpose. So.... when the time comes.... how many useless wires do we leave strung through our walls and with useless plastic plates, with useless connectors?
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: brobin on January 10, 2019, 12:15:07 AM


It may not be this spring, or next summer, or ever for that matter. But I can see a time in the very near future when the old phone wire and cable TV cables..... serve no modern purpose. So.... when the time comes.... how many useless wires do we leave strung through our walls and with useless plastic plates, with useless connectors?
We won't needs lights either cause we'll all be glowing in the dark!  rofl
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: JeffVolp on January 10, 2019, 12:33:52 AM
It seems as if most of the people in my area have switched to the various streaming services. As many of the services create their own content (or actually contract it's creation). some of the best entertainment seen on TV isn't available on cable (let alone broadcast).

Actually, the TiVo streams Netflix into any TV over the MOCA network.  We currently have two TiVo Roamios - one for cable and one off the air.  Any TV connected to a TiVo or TiVo Mini can access any of the recordings on either TiVo or any of the most popular streaming sources.  Most nights we watch a Netflix movie or series in our theater room.  We just went through the excellent British series "Bodyguard".

Jeff
Title: Re: Radar Detection Lighting
Post by: HA Dave on January 10, 2019, 08:35:33 AM
Actually, the TiVo streams Netflix into any TV over the MOCA network.  We currently have two TiVo Roamios - one for cable and one off the air.  Any TV connected to a TiVo or TiVo Mini can access any of the recordings on either TiVo or any of the most popular streaming sources.  Most nights we watch a Netflix movie or series in our theater room.  We just went through the excellent British series "Bodyguard".
Jeff

Yeah... TiVo is a premium service. And of course... any wiring involved would be well worth it. And being an old wire-twister (electrician) in a former life... I don't mind fishing wire.

But so much of what we had to wire in the old days... just don't require it now. I don't know where the edges... or the limits are for wiring. I ditched my old landline (phone) several months ago.... but retained the phones number (I've had for over 30 years)… by using a Internet phone service thingy. Meanwhile.... my wife and I have converted to mobile phone use. My new security alarm also uses a [cellular] SIM card system as a back-up to Internet as well.

So like my neighbors.... we all wonder why we all have phone lines running to our homes. Like most of them... I also had two phone lines "back-in-the-day"... with one divided between dial-up Internet and teenage daughter. I've even been teased among friends and family for keeping cable TV (not that I care). And as 5G Internet service becomes the standard here (which could be soon). The "wired" service becomes a "preference" and not a need.

And with phone/TV mirroring technology (and maybe a BT keyboard).... the next gen iPhone may even replace my laptop. The exponential progression of the technology.... nearly exceeds the speed of my imagination.

Most nights we watch a Netflix movie or series in our theater room.  We just went through the excellent British series "Bodyguard".

I binge-watched the British "Sherlock" Holmes series (https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b018ttws/episodes/guide) in our theater. That really is IMHO... a great way to enjoy "TV".