X10 Community Forum

📱🖥️PiX10Hub ( Always Evolving Open Source) => 💬General Discussion => Topic started by: Tuicemen on December 15, 2018, 11:08:04 AM

Title: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: Tuicemen on December 15, 2018, 11:08:04 AM
The PiX10Hub is not an Authinx designed product!
I was designed and created by members of the X10 community so your input will directly affect the direction this continues to go in.

The PiX10Hub is a custom SD image that uses the combination of a Pi and a x10 pc interface.
The PiX10Hub has two open source programs currently preloaded and boots to an inital boot screen to setup time and location as well as a few other things. It is designed to (once set up) sit quietly in a corner handling all your HA requirements.
All HA (x10 & other protocol) configuration is done via a HomeGenie Web GUI.
Some Q&A:
1: Do I need any special skills?
No! PI knowledge is not required to get started nor do you need to go down the Linux rabbit hole (unless you wish too)
2: Will it replace the CM15A/AHP combo?
Yes, It already has for me.
3: Will it replace the WM100 and it's apps? 
rofl That wasn't hard to do, Yes!
4: Do I still need a Computer?
For initial setup, so yes!
However afterwards any device that has a browser can connect to it via Wi-Fi.
You may wish to connect wirelessly every so often to do safe shutdown and backup the SD card, although it is possible to do regular backups of the configuration of the two HA programs via another device.
5: What x10 interfaces are supported with the image?
The PiX10Hub was created arround using a CM15a, however it is possible to use the CM11, CM17, and CM19 with some tinkering.
Want to know more?
Just ask! ;)
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: petera on December 15, 2018, 07:58:54 PM
And remember folks once the Pi X10 hub is up and running you can leave it hidden away as you do currently with your CM15. Little or no extra power required to leave it running 24/7, it's quiet, no motors or fans running etc. You no longer need batteries in your CM15 either. All the intelligence is stored on the SD card in the Pi. And as Tuicemen states, it's yours the X10 community to configure as you will. Once you Pi arrives you're ready to go.
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: Tuicemen on December 17, 2018, 12:00:39 PM
The testers realy are doing a fantastic job of finding issues.
Some of these possible issues users may encounter are not that of the image but more the other softwares being used. Those issues have been submitted to the prospective developers and are on the lists of adds.
In the mean time we have found work arounds for those issues should users experience them before they are addressed in the softwares.
 >!
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: LostDog88 on December 17, 2018, 10:33:00 PM
So...........I am interested in this. Currently I am using an older laptop. 2G on a LAN to stream all my TV needs and run Home Genie.

I am running Cinnamon. I want to split these up and think that a Pi would be the best thing to run my Automation. What I would love to do is put this in a box somewhere with a CM15 that I have and just run it off of a breaker in case I needed to reboot it. Remote access. Etc.

One box for the Automation. One box for the TV.
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: Tuicemen on December 19, 2018, 07:53:08 AM
What I would love to do is put this in a box somewhere with a CM15 that I have and just run it off of a breaker in case I needed to reboot it. Remote access. Etc.

The nice thing with a Pi Zero W which this project is created for, is it will fit inside a CM15. And no soldering skills are required unless you wish to connect the USB inside the Cm15 to cut down on external wires. However you can also get very short USB cords from Amazon, ebay,or your local computer shop.
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: Brian H on December 19, 2018, 06:11:50 PM
I would be very careful with the X10PiHub and a breaker.
Cycling the power to the Pi Zero W has lead to corrupt SD cards if a proper shutdown is not done first.
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: Tuicemen on December 23, 2018, 07:59:29 AM
I would be very careful with the X10PiHub and a breaker.
Cycling the power to the Pi Zero W has lead to corrupt SD cards if a proper shutdown is not done first.
There are several DIY projects for shutdown buttons and even premade add on boards to allow for safe shutdowns.
Myself I have my Pi connected to a UPS in case of a power blip this will last for days with only the Pi running. This also gives me plenty of time to do a remote in safe shutdown.
Although I've not attempted to create a Safe Shutdown widget for HG it is possible to do this from HA-Bridge. I did include how to create this voice activated safe shutdown in the HA-Bridge setup thread.
For those that don't have any Alexa Devices this can still be used by opening HA-Bridge and click a software on or off button. ;)
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: bkenobi on December 23, 2018, 09:59:05 AM
With the use of an APC UPS and apcupsd, you can set up the RPi to shut down automatically, too.
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: Tuicemen on December 23, 2018, 10:14:59 AM
With the use of an APC UPS and apcupsd, you can set up the RPi to shut down automatically, too.

That raises the issue of another USB connection which by default the ZeroW only has one :(
A USB multi port powered hub I'm assuming will work in this case but some have fried their Zero W board playing with a powered hub  ::) :' There is also the option of adding a USB hat to the zero W or soldering on an extra USB cable to the solder pads. All of which many will not attempt. :(
Of coarse if you have the PiX10Hub running on a different Pi (and some have had success with this ) then you might have free USB ports ;)
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: Brian H on December 23, 2018, 01:47:09 PM
I saw an interesting four port USB adapter for a Pi Zero.
It is shaped like a Pi Zero or Pi Zero W. Mounts on the back side of the Pi Zero and has four connectors that contact four of the test pads on the back side. No soldering needed and it was updated for the PI Zero W as its RF signals where interfering with it. If Pi powered it can do 500ma total current.

I have a Micro USB to four USB adapter. It can be externally powered but as pointed out. Can damage the PI Zero W. They said best to open the case and disconnect the Red wire that probably connects the Pi connectors 5 volts to the external adapter supply when used.

The CM15A uses it own power so it should not draw much current from an adapter. Can't say about a CM19A or an UPS USB interface to computer for monitoring.
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: bkenobi on December 23, 2018, 03:09:13 PM
If power flickering is the concern and not an all out black out, you don't need the service anyway.  But, if that were the case, someone here also suggested a power bank that can both charge and provide power concurrently.
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: brobin on December 23, 2018, 03:40:15 PM
If power flickering is the concern and not an all out black out, you don't need the service anyway.  But, if that were the case, someone here also suggested a power bank that can both charge and provide power concurrently.

I'm one of the people who mentioned it and I found that RavPower has a line of "pass-through" chargers. https://goo.gl/5BWJud
I ordered the 6700mah RP-PB060 which is about the same size as the PiZ. With coupon code RP15SAS entered at checkout the cost is only $12.74 + tax with free shipping (cheaper than on Amazon).

I'll post results when it arrives later this week.
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: brobin on December 27, 2018, 05:10:30 PM
The RavPower RP-PB060 arrived today and is now working with the PI.  I can confirm that it appears to be charging while powering the Pi. The first time I tested I had plugged the power supply into the powerbank first and then the Pi. The 1st time I turned off the power supply the Pi went off. Uh-Oh!  So then, with the Pi already plugged into the powerbank, I turned the power supply back on and, after the Pi had finished booting, turned it off again. It worked - the Pi remained on through multiple on/off cycles.  I'll check it again later to ensure that the powerbank is maintaining a full charge.

Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: JBL11554 on December 28, 2018, 12:17:51 PM
Where and how do you get the PiX10Hub.  I looked at the X10.com site and it doesn't exist.
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: Brian H on December 28, 2018, 12:48:31 PM
Where and how do you get the PiX10Hub.  I looked at the X10.com site and it doesn't exist.

It is not an Authnix product so it will not be on the X10 sales site.
The first post in this thread will tell you it is a X10 user developed device.

This section here has most of the details and what is used to create it and a SD card Image to get you going.
http://forums.x10.com/index.php?board=165.0
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: JBL11554 on December 28, 2018, 01:17:08 PM
Well I'm totally lost.  I was an electronic tech for well over 30 years and I don't see anything about the actual device anywhere in this/these post.  Is this a downloadable file of sorts? It appears that you have to modify the X10AHP and convert it to the PiX10.  I skimmed thru all this and all I see is what it is capable of doing and where to get the micro usb adapter.  I've never opened the X10 AHP.  Is there a usb jack/port located inside it?  Plus I can only assume it has wifi capabilities.  Signed, Confused.
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: Brian H on December 28, 2018, 01:46:38 PM
The X10PiHUB is assembled with a Raspberry Pi Zero W, power supply, SD card and Micro USB to USB B cable to go from it to the CM15A or adapter to allow the original CM15A USB cable to mate with the new assembly. Some have found a new cable to go directly from the Pi to the CM15A's B type USB connection.

There is a SD card image you can download and program the SD card. To set it up you have to SSH it from a computer or use a USB keyboard and a HDMI monitor cable. One of the adapters you may have seen was for the Micro HDMI connector on the Pi to a standard HDMI connection on a TV or monitor.

There are some links in the threads for finding the needed programs to image the SD card and access the assembly to set it up.
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: JBL11554 on December 28, 2018, 02:45:20 PM
Thanks but, I'll pass at this point sounds to complicated to me. Besides I've never had a whole lot of success making stuff from pieces parts.  I'll just hybridize the X10AHP and X10 Wifi for right now : ). Thanks for the clarification.
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: brobin on December 28, 2018, 02:59:49 PM
The CM15 doesn't need to be opened or hacked in any way. Just clear it's memory and plug it in. The USB cable plugs into a Raspberry Pi Zero W which costs less than $28 with a case, and a USB adapter (so you can plug the CM15 USB into the Pi). The only other item needed is a $6 MicroSD card.  With that in hand you follow the directions at http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=30714.0 and you'll have Home Genie up and running.  Not tools or modifications to hardware are required.
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: Tuicemen on December 28, 2018, 03:56:58 PM
JBL11554 you realy are over thinking things if you can setup your TV you can set this up.
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: racerfern on January 02, 2019, 07:16:19 PM
The RavPower RP-PB060 arrived today and is now working with the PI.  I can confirm that it appears to be charging while powering the Pi. The first time I tested I had plugged the power supply into the powerbank first and then the Pi. The 1st time I turned off the power supply the Pi went off. Uh-Oh!  So then, with the Pi already plugged into the powerbank, I turned the power supply back on and, after the Pi had finished booting, turned it off again. It worked - the Pi remained on through multiple on/off cycles.  I'll check it again later to ensure that the powerbank is maintaining a full charge.
I just got one, I'm hoping to power a Homeseer z-net which is a very low power unit although not as low as the zero I'm sure. My z-net comes with a 2.5A power supply, of course that's max and I doubt it gets anywhere close to that. However, I can't get it to stay on even following what you did. Confused.
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: brobin on January 02, 2019, 07:19:54 PM
After testing for a few more days, the jury is still out this one. Sometimes it seems to be fine but yesterday it was almost down to nothing.  I plan to call them to see what I may be doing wrong.
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: racerfern on January 02, 2019, 07:25:33 PM
I emailed them and they said not to use it for a HA setup, not sure why. It's a nice device and I might just try the 20000mAh as that is 3.4A output.
https://amzn.to/2BUftux
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: racerfern on January 04, 2019, 03:06:40 PM
As a follow up on the Ravpower, I opted for this one. https://amzn.to/2CQljig as the output is high enough. It works perfectly. Right now it is powering a z-net so the power requirement should easily keep the battery charged. I'm using the power supply that came with the z-net. I think the problem with the RP-PB060 may be that the max output is 2.4A and the spec calls for 2.5A. Also with the RP-PB060 I got undervoltage warnings on the RPi desktop screen via a lightning bolt on the screen as soon as it was asked to do anything more than just sit there.

I just unplugged the charging cable and it stayed up and running perfectly. We'll see if it slowly starts to lose charge or maintains a full charge with the charging cable connected.

Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: brobin on January 04, 2019, 04:04:20 PM
I'm glad to hear that you've found a working one. When I put a meter on the PiZW running the X10 Hub package it draws a peak of 900ma so the 6700mah model should handle it OK.  I spoke to a tech support person at RavPower yesterday who had no idea what 'pass-through' operation meant and I had to give him a link to their own web page for him to understand. He spoke to someone else there and - towards the end of our 45 minute call - explained that their 'pass-through' is not meant for full time operation. B:( 

It will power the Pi while it is charging itself but once the powerbank is fully charged it will turn off it's input until unplugged and plugged in again to prevent damage. So once it's fully charged the Pi will use up the battery (mine ran for 3 days) and then die.
 
  I could just plug the powerbank's charger into an X10 module and cycle it on and off once a day but I'll look for a better solution.  Can you confirm that the model you have now doesn't do the same thing?
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: racerfern on January 04, 2019, 05:26:40 PM
I just switched from the z-net which is a very low power requirement unit and put it on an RPi3B+ that I just set up as a Plex server and I have yet to see the undervoltage warning even though the battery pack is not plugged in. That's a good thing.

Now have plugged in the charger and unplugging does not affect anything. In theory, the battery should charge up in a few hours. I'll see it the Pi stays up and running or not. If not, I have I a couple of emergency power supplies :'
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: racerfern on January 05, 2019, 05:58:20 PM
The battery is fully charged and the Pi did not shutdown because the battery was fully charged and charging stopped. I shut off charging to the battery pack and the RPi kept right on going. So far over 30 hours without a hiccup.

Note that if I connect an HDMI monitor I do get an occasional low voltage warning but everything continues to perform just fine. You do not see the low voltage warning when using VNC. This power supply has two USB outputs but the total is 3.0A so it will still power only one RPI3.

Not sure how long it will run on just battery power. Will find out sooner than later.
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: Convastor on January 09, 2019, 11:52:25 PM
The RavPower RP-PB060 arrived today and is now working with the PI.  I can confirm that it appears to be charging while powering the Pi.

Have you established how long that RavPower device will keep the Pi Zero W running?
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: racerfern on January 11, 2019, 05:44:20 PM
I haven't established how long it will keep it running because it will not reliably switch to battery power when disconnected from mains. It completely shuts down, but not all the time. Not repeatable, so I decided to go with a standard UPS Tripplite 550. For the occasional brief outages it will suffice.

Apologies for not answering sooner, I wanted to make sure where or what the issue was.
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: bkenobi on January 11, 2019, 06:00:07 PM
If you connect the UPS to your RPi via a USB cable you should be able to utilize a software shutdown service.  I use APC and therefor the apcupsd software works great!  I have an app for HG that even sends a notification prior to shut down (not required, but nice to know).
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: racerfern on January 12, 2019, 07:35:29 AM
Quote
If you connect the UPS to your RPi via a USB cable you should be able to utilize a software shutdown service.

@bkenobi - I dl'd software for the tripplite and I have it set up to shutdown the pc.

How about for the raspberry Pi? I have three PIs,  one for the z-net, one for the zigbee board and one that I'm setting up as a plex server since deciding not to go the HG route.

In another room I have the main PC for the house and another z-net for which I will need another UPS.
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: bkenobi on January 14, 2019, 11:12:33 AM
IIRC when using the apcupsd it is possible to set up a second Linux machine that gets info from a second system connected to the UPS.  I know that can be done with the Windows software I run a second UPS on (Cyberpower I think).  If your app has something similar, you should be able to shut down multiple systems running on a single UPS using one as a master and the others clients.
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: racerfern on January 14, 2019, 12:19:11 PM
This project has become a monster. The Tripplite is not recognized by APCUPSD. So I set up the Tripplite software along with SYSLOG commands that should be sent to the various Pi units I have.

However, the Tripplite software consumes just over 30% CPU resources which is ridiculous for something that just sits there. I'm going to put the Tripplite as the UPS in another room and get an APC unit.

We don't have power outages very often and when we do they are extremely brief for the most part. Any APC recommendations?
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: Convastor on January 14, 2019, 01:32:51 PM
Perhaps the Alchemy Power Inc. - Pi-Zero-UpTime. UPS for Pi or other USB devices in a Pi-Zero size. Works with Pi Zero, Pi-3, Pi-2 etc. with 40 pin header on Amazon?  (I'd meant to post a link, but I'm not allowed.)

Thing is: Looks like you have to mount it directly to the RPiZW if you want power fail and low battery monitoring, so I don't know how you'd cleanly case the result, and the runtime appears to be a mere 45 minutes or so.

Re: "[Becoming] a monster": Agreed.  What sense needing a UPS that's more expensive than the board, and ten times the size, and requires a USB port multiplexer, and, and, and...?  Are these RPiZW's really that twitchy on power loss, that they have a high probability of trashing their SD cards?  If so: I suggest the design isn't useful as anything other than an educational device or toy.  I'm not certain I'd want to base my home automation on it.
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: racerfern on January 14, 2019, 02:22:47 PM
I don't have any Pi zeros. I have two Pi 3B+ and two Pi3. Regardless, on power loss any device of this type runs a real risk of corrupting the SD card.
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: petera on January 14, 2019, 02:36:34 PM
I don't have any Pi zeros. I have two Pi 3B+ and two Pi3. Regardless, on power loss any device of this type runs a real risk of corrupting the SD card.

That's why some users have switched to booting from USB stick or drive. A lot less susceptible to corruption on power loss.
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: Convastor on January 14, 2019, 04:16:23 PM
I don't have any Pi zeros. I have two Pi 3B+ and two Pi3. Regardless, on power loss any device of this type runs a real risk of corrupting the SD card.
That's why some users have switched to booting from USB stick or drive. A lot less susceptible to corruption on power loss.
Yeah, but the RPiZW has only the one USB port, and that's needed for the cm15a.

May have to rethink my plans.
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: bkenobi on January 14, 2019, 04:48:33 PM
I have not checked apcupsd resource usage recently, however I do not recall it consuming much resources.  IMO it should consume much less than 1% when idling.  I would not expect your UPS to work with the daemon unless it was listed in the docs and since it was designed for APC brand units, Tripplite is likely out of luck.

You could try NUT since it does list a few Tripplite models.

https://networkupstools.org/stable-hcl.html
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: dhouston on January 14, 2019, 07:13:05 PM
I don't have any Pi zeros. I have two Pi 3B+ and two Pi3. Regardless, on power loss any device of this type runs a real risk of corrupting the SD card.
That's why some users have switched to booting from USB stick or drive. A lot less susceptible to corruption on power loss.
Yeah, but the RPiZW has only the one USB port, and that's needed for the cm15a.
http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=30753.msg179923#msg179923 (http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=30753.msg179923#msg179923)
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: Convastor on January 15, 2019, 12:16:38 AM
I don't have any Pi zeros. I have two Pi 3B+ and two Pi3. Regardless, on power loss any device of this type runs a real risk of corrupting the SD card.
That's why some users have switched to booting from USB stick or drive. A lot less susceptible to corruption on power loss.
Yeah, but the RPiZW has only the one USB port, and that's needed for the cm15a.
http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=30753.msg179923#msg179923 (http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=30753.msg179923#msg179923)
Thanks, but I'm now thinking that, for my purposes, I'll just run something on my Linux server or NAS that are running all the time, anyway.  They both already have UPS', shut down gracefully, and will automatically start back up on power being restored.

That Alchemy Power "UPS" device is so close, but there's a no-go zone that will result in the RPiZW shutting down, but not starting back up w/o manual intervention.  Not so handy for an unattended device ;)
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: bkenobi on January 15, 2019, 11:22:55 AM
IMO, if you already have a machine that is running 24/7 and being maintained to be reliable and is capable of running the HA software you choose including sufficient resources, you might as well run it there.  I switched to a RPi because AHP was terrible IMO and I wanted something that could sit next to the CM15A at my structured media box that would add effectively no extra maintenance cost (electricity etc).  If my file server was running Linux, I would probably have stayed using it.  Since it's on WinXP I was limited to what HA software I could use and my choice necessitated an RPi or similar.
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: Tuicemen on January 15, 2019, 11:36:55 AM
The Nice thing with HomeGenie is it will run on virtually any OS.
My main reason for going the PI route was for my off grid place.
However I do now have the PXH running on a pi ZeroW at my city place beside my Windows machine and plugged into that UPS.

Although my PC is on almost 24/7 I do like the idea of my HA running on a dedicated machine the Pi should run for days off the UPS, if the PC is shutdown.
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: Convastor on January 15, 2019, 12:11:14 PM
IMO, if you already have a machine that is running 24/7 and being maintained to be reliable and is capable of running the HA software you choose including sufficient resources, you might as well run it there.
That's the direction I'm looking into now.  But, rather than pollute this thread with that discussion, I'll start a new thread, elsewhere.

In the meantime I've suggested to the developer of that one RPiZW battery backup that he improve it in v2 with a board reset on restoration of power and a bit of battery charging, like a full-blown UPS would do.  (If I didn't have so many things on my plate I'd consider doing it, myself.  I haven't done any hardware design in ages.)
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: bkenobi on January 15, 2019, 01:23:52 PM
A battery backup should restore the unit to the same state it was in during power failure.  The apcupsd may be able to do that, but I'm not sure how.  As a result, if the RPi goes down, I do have to turn it back on when power returns.
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: Convastor on January 15, 2019, 02:33:53 PM
A battery backup should restore the unit to the same state it was in during power failure.  The apcupsd may be able to do that, but I'm not sure how.  As a result, if the RPi goes down, I do have to turn it back on when power returns.
The way the original APC daemon handled that was that, when the monitoring daemon determined it was time to shut down due to low battery, it'd send a power-down command to the UPS, then proceed to shut the system down.  The power-down command sent to the UPS had a configurable delay, which you had to set to what you expected your worst-case shutdown time would be.

Then, when power was restored, the UPS would, after a configurable charging period, re-apply power to the load, and the computer would come back up.

But, now that I think of it: I've never actually had that happen under the open source apcupsd.  I should probably pull the plug, some day, and make certain it actually works.  (Can't believe I've neglected to do that.)

As for the device to which I was referring: ISTM it would not be difficult to monitor the battery charge level after shutting the RPiZW down, and simply apply a reset to the board when it got back up to a suitable level.  (Of course not necessary during a power-on reset.)
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: bkenobi on January 15, 2019, 06:03:06 PM
My understanding of apcupsd was that the service monitored the UPS for power level and at the preconfigured power level it would shut just the system down.  If the UPS continued to drain to zero, when power returned it would immediately power on the RPi since power had been removed and then restored.  The problem with this is that a power blip on return could corrupt the SD.  I don't have high drain devices on that UPS, so it would have to be down for another few days beyond the level I selected for shut down (IIRC the level I have it at).
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: Convastor on January 15, 2019, 07:38:25 PM
I believe most APC UPS' will not turn on the load until the batteries are charged to a certain minimum level. This is independent of the existence of apcupsd.  I believe you can override that with the power button, but I am not certain.
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: bkenobi on January 16, 2019, 10:14:33 AM
Huh, wasn't aware.  I just replaced the battery in one of my APC units that could keep my TV on for around 0.5 seconds where it should work for 30-60 minutes.  When I installed the battery and powered it on it just turned on like normal.  This unit isn't a Smart-UPS, just a Back-UPS IIRC so perhaps it's not a feature of the low end models.
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: Convastor on January 16, 2019, 10:47:21 AM
IME new UPS batteries arrive mostly fully-charged.  I just replaced the batteries in the UPS for our main server and the UPS showed a full charge on them right away.

BTW: If you want your UPS batteries to live a little longer, pull the plug and run until the UPS is near shut-down.  Helps prevent the plates in lead-acid batteries from plating, thus reducing capacity.
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: bkenobi on January 16, 2019, 02:18:38 PM
How often?  That's how they used to prevent "memory" in old rechargeables, correct?
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: Convastor on January 16, 2019, 06:56:29 PM
How often?  That's how they used to prevent "memory" in old rechargeables, correct?
I try to do it once per quarter.  That also makes me aware of batteries that are approaching EOL, rather than finding out when it's too late.
In answer to your question: Yes, but I think the chemical issues are different.  Not certain.
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: Tuicemen on January 29, 2019, 11:53:08 AM
The PiX10Hub image was built using the Pi zero W board as the platform. This allowed for some customization to HG and other possible programs. However many are finding the ZeroW to limited in a number of ways for their setup or have other Pi boards which this doesn't work on.
For that reason I started to create a universal PiX10Hub PI image  this currently only adds HG and has no HG customization.

If you find you require this image, PM me and I'll get you setup to test the current working image. I can only currently test with the Zero W. Once it is confirmed to work with other Pi boards I'll post the link with the current one for Zero Ws.
 >!
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: racerfern on January 29, 2019, 12:19:14 PM
I got HG working by just downloading the file from
https://genielabs.github.io/HomeGenie/#/get_started
Very simple on a Noobs complete installation.
Obviously it will take more effort to get Alexa or Google Home working, but the HG part worked just fine.
This was on a 3B+.
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: Tuicemen on January 29, 2019, 01:08:34 PM
Yes, the instructions are fairly easy to follow  there even the step by step I posted here:  http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=30427.0 is a simple cut and paste. However some for what ever reason struggle.
No GUI I believe turns most off as the install is done from command line.
The PXH 2.0 image is not a desktop image which is may be what many struggle with. A desktop install adds many things which slow down a PI thus rendering older PIs to slow to perform.
The PXH loads the Pi config (a simple user interface) which requires using the up down arrows on your keyboard.
once done and rebooted one command needs to be typed or pasted in and your done.
The PXH 2.0 only installs needed files. Luckily setting up HG isn't a big deal once installed.
Even setting up Alexa is fairly straight forward, once you install the interface all devices in HG are discovered automatically. Google Home is another story but even that isn't impossible just more work. ;)
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: racerfern on January 29, 2019, 02:11:12 PM
Quote
No GUI I believe turns most off as the install is done from command line.
The PXH 2.0 image is not a desktop image which is may be what many struggle with. A desktop install adds many things which slow down a PI thus rendering older PIs to slow to perform

A couple of things to consider:
How many people that installed via command line knew what they were typing? How many people actually know what "sudo" stands for?

IIRC, you can have the desktop installed making it easier for a ton of people then still boot to the command line. Now you can type 192.168.1.xxx from a PC, tablet, whatever and not take a performance hit. If the desktop isn't being utilized I don't see where the performance hit is going to be. It does take more space on the SD card but that's not significant.

I personally feel that you will get a lot more users if you take the GUI root, especially if on a 3B+ which is just a few dollars more. Who cares if it doesn't fit inside a CM15A. You have ETH,wifi,BT, 4 USB ports, more everything. This is why as bloated as Win10 is, or the latest Mac version, they're still the desirable OS systems. Why is there even a NOOBS? Because of the pushback from all the users that didn't want to deal with command lines. If that were the case I would still be on DOS, DRDOS or CP/M.

Of course, you can still boot and run command line and hopefully slowly learn the commands. In general, this isn't a young bunch of people you're dealing with on this forum, hence the hesitation. Serve it as eye candy and they will be eating from your hand.

Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: Tuicemen on January 29, 2019, 02:48:10 PM
The GUI on a Pi isn't really what gives the PI a performance hit it is all the added things that are distributed with it that gets loaded on boot even if you boot to the terminal window.

The Zero W was not chosen for this project due to it being able to fit in a CM15, it was due to its cost which at the time was $5 US. Actually Noobs just helps find the different distributions and installs the one you wish. You can still download and install the desktop or lite version without any command line input.

If an end user wishes the Pi Desktop they can go that route but it isn't any simpler to setup HG from.
The PXH 2.0 requires only two commands to be typed or copied into the command line sh /boot/HG and after rebooting from the Pi setup screen sh setupHG no long commands names to worry about. Once done open any browser to the pi ip on another device and your faced with the HomeGenie web UI
I suppose I can (and may) publish the script separate and users can download and install what ever Pi Linux OS distribution they wish ::) :'


Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: James G on March 06, 2019, 03:13:34 AM
Forgive me but I have been running the same extensive X-10 system for decades with only a few minor changes from time to time. Despite reading the posts, I still do not know exactly what this is.

How does it compare with the Plato HouseLink described in detail here:

https://www.hometoys.com/article/1997/10/plato-houselinc/217/ (https://www.hometoys.com/article/1997/10/plato-houselinc/217/)
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: bkenobi on March 06, 2019, 08:33:34 AM
That link doesn't work for me.  HomeGenie is a HA software written in Mono so it can be run on Windows, RPi, etc.  It can use X10 and many other systems in a combined setup.

EDIT: The link works on my Windows machine but wasn't working earlier on my Android.
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: Tuicemen on March 06, 2019, 08:49:25 AM
The PiX10Hub is a Image created for a Raspberry Pi specifically designed for the $5-$10 Zero W board and CM15A.
However Others have used it with other Pi Boards and other X10 controllers.
It includes HomeGenie which bkenobi mentioned.
This gets your HA control off your PC and allows you to connect to it from anywhere.
The image also is totally free and designed to get a X10 setup running in a short amount of time.
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: jfcl on April 22, 2019, 02:39:15 PM
Wow!  I've been running my CP-290 on a Raspberry Pi for years.  It has been great to have always-on internet access to my X-10 modules.

PiX10Hub looks like it finally might replace this.   Thanks!
           --jfcl
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: Tuicemen on May 13, 2019, 04:00:43 PM
The PiX10Hub image is created for a Pi and must be installed on a pi.
However if you download the HomeGenie installer for Windows you can install it in Windows and play with it and X10.
Likewise if you download the Linux or mac installer you can you can install and play with it in those OSes.
So no the image isn't required to play with X10 the image just comes preconfigured making setup that much simpler.
It should be noted that the Homegenie backup can be used to move one's setup from one OS to HG on another OS if you've not done much customization, as backups don't seem to handle added custom interfaces or widgets.  :(
Customization must be manually added after a restore is done on the new device.

 >!
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: edjal on May 13, 2019, 06:48:26 PM
 Thank You for your reply.  I have been playing with the windows version HG and I don't know any of the languages required to program HG.  I use one AHP macro and several on and off at specific time of day and specified calendar  x10 A and B events in AHP presently. So far I cant see how I can replace AHP with HG. without using programmers language C++ or others that I don't understand. In AHP it was spelled out on @__ off @__ from date ____to Date__ Ect.


 
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: Tuicemen on May 13, 2019, 08:40:35 PM
HG has a macro recorder which creates a script based on what you click on.
No Programing skills are required. Timers are setup in the scheduler and although no as simple as recording clicks like the macro recorder does it is easy to get the hang of for simple timed events. However since it and the macro possibilities of HG are far more powerful they do take a bit longer to master.
Have you looked over the HG documentation and included videos ? Both  macros (scenarios) and timers (schedules) are outlined in the documentation.
https://genielabs.github.io/HomeGenie/#/docs/setup

As well there are some links to helpful videos posted in the HG help section here.
http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=30684.0
 >!
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: edjal on May 14, 2019, 10:11:23 AM
 Thank You for your guidance I will try your suggestions as I really have to replace AHP.  thanks Again
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: edjal on May 15, 2019, 12:07:16 PM
   I have figured out how to configure scheduling it is pretty simple as you describe however using home genie guide I still can't figure out how to get these x10 modules  that I have scheduled to show up as a widget on the HG home page. The only Widgets showing are the demo widgets. Can you help me with this? It would be much appreciated



Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: Tuicemen on May 15, 2019, 12:13:27 PM
You must enable X10 and state which port to use cm15 or cm19. as well you have to specify the house codes you wish to use you can select just the ones you use.
then from the dashboard click on actions then configure group
in that page click actions again then add module.
in the pop up select the x10 module you wish to add and arrange them how you wish. You can also name them there or in the dashboard screen.
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: edjal on May 16, 2019, 10:01:39 AM
 Thank You again I now have widgets on the Dashboard and they have a button directly above them. Example over top of widget Xmas Tree x10 A1 is a button "Demo - Motion Detected" it has a tiny circle lit in yellow, over top of widget Furnace X10 A2 "Demo-Simulate Temp"  it has a tint circle in grey. All widgets are under a title Simulate. What is the purpose of these buttons over widget?
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: Tuicemen on May 16, 2019, 11:35:25 AM
Thank You again I now have widgets on the Dashboard and they have a button directly above them. Example over top of widget Xmas Tree x10 A1 is a button "Demo - Motion Detected" it has a tiny circle lit in yellow, over top of widget Furnace X10 A2 "Demo-Simulate Temp"  it has a tint circle in grey. All widgets are under a title Simulate. What is the purpose of these buttons over widget?
the demo widgets are used to simulate the button turns green when activated and stays that way while the simulation program is running. You can delete the demo widgets.
You may also wish to try installing the pix10hub backup which is a backup of a preconfigured HG
http://tuicemen.net/downloads/Pi/pihub/PiX10Hub_config.zip to install this dont un zip go to maintenance then restore and browse fot the downloaded file.
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: edjal on May 17, 2019, 10:51:16 AM
 I can now see why many are so excited about HG with Pi vs AHP. It is taking me a little longer to figure it out. I have created a backup of my progress I
have used the Macro Wizard but I can't insert date or time range while in the wizard. I use two macros in AHP 1. Driveway Macro:  Trigger Conditions B2 on  MS16A Motion Det) and Flag status on-1 and the time is between 8:45 and 10:45pm, end trigger conditions Set Flags 1, turn driveway alert B1 ON (SC546A Motion Sensor)
2. Pole Light Macro:  Trigger Conditions B2 ON and Flag Status ON-2, and the time is between 10:45pn and dawn End Trigger conditions, set flags (2), turn Exterior lights on (A4 Exterior Lights).
Is this something possible with Hg and would you mind helping me with this? Thank You so much for your guidance so far Edjal
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: Tuicemen on May 17, 2019, 11:06:57 AM
Time conditions can be added in wizard scripts using condition homegenie/scheduler /(selected time/date)
Flags aren't part of HG and not realy require however I did create a fun with flags program for users that feel they need this.
http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=30757.msg180659#msg180659
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: edjal on May 17, 2019, 12:14:51 PM
 Thank You so much for your guidance. I'm assuming the scheduler ties in with the macros I create?  I don't think I need flags with HG, Hope not anyway. You have been so helpful.
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: Tuicemen on May 17, 2019, 12:31:20 PM
The scheduler is a separate thing you can't trigger macros just devices from it, but you can tell your macros to use a scheduled time from inside the macro. I'm not sure why the word scheduler is used in the wizard scripts, it confuses newbies.
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: edjal on May 17, 2019, 01:24:50 PM
 :) I think I got it now. here is a copy of one macro.
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: edjal on May 17, 2019, 07:37:25 PM
Does that macro design look like one that wil work correctly?
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: Tuicemen on May 18, 2019, 06:43:16 AM
If you wish a pause between actions then the pause should be located there not in the trigger.
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: edjal on May 18, 2019, 11:55:10 AM
  Im sorry I guess Im totaly lost.Assuming the line following X10 B2 motion on would be a trigger line and should not have a delay indicated? this is where I have a delay presently. I don't neccesarily want a delay I just want X10 B2 motion sensor to turn on X10 B1 Chime and after motion has stopped turn off B1 Chime during certain hours of the day. in the evening during certain hours I want B2 motion to turn on X10 A4 Ext pole Light leave on for 5 min then turn off and during these hours I dont want chime activated. In the Macro program Editor wizard I dont know what command arguments are accepted so I really dont know how to use it. When I click on the help button I cant connect. I am on port 8080. Can you enlighten me? It would be greatly appreciated
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: Tuicemen on May 19, 2019, 08:43:06 AM
A separate wizard script needs to be created for each device unless all devices use the same conditions. Wizard scripts are  for creating simple macros.
However a long time HG user may prove me wrong.
 Very complexed macros with ifs then elses  and othe conditionals can be done with one of the supported programing languages.
 >!
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: edjal on May 19, 2019, 10:06:01 AM
 OK I really appreciated all your help to this point in time.   I am waiting for the Pi and mini SDs to arrive and Im pretty confidant I can use the scheduler for most of my needs, but I have no knowledge of programming languages I guess I'm in over my head with these 2 macros I want to duplicate from AHP. I see one of the forum subjects is sharing and creating macros I will try there for more info. You have helped me tremendously with navigating HG.  Thank you again   Edjal :)   
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: Tuicemen on May 19, 2019, 04:43:57 PM
iI you specify in the section for custom scripts what your trying to do someone may help out and or create it for you. ;)
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: edjal on May 19, 2019, 05:08:32 PM
 I have posted in that section earlier today what my needs were.   again thank You for your help w navigating HG and your advice you are always well appreciated
Title: Re: What is the PiX10Hub?
Post by: Tuicemen on May 19, 2019, 05:12:11 PM
You may also wish to post the question at the HG forum https://homegenie.club/ Since this forum is a broad based X10 forum HG Club may get you answers quicker for HG.
 >!