X10 Community Forum

X10 WIFI => General Discussion => Topic started by: ceedee on January 06, 2019, 03:00:07 PM

Title: RIP, WM100?
Post by: ceedee on January 06, 2019, 03:00:07 PM
Tuicemen,
Is the WM effectively dead?  Seems that way.

Chris
Title: Re: RIP, WM100?
Post by: dave w on January 06, 2019, 03:21:47 PM
My two cents is NO. At least not yet.
I don't think "we" on the forum really knows how much Authinx is selling. Although I doubt this, but Authinx *could* have sold several hundred of these things, and a lot of owners, not familiar with this forum may be happy with them as a WiFi remote control.
Tuicemen communicates with Authix and would have a more accurate feel. But without knowing how many Willys have been sold, and how many bread and butter Appliance and Lamp modules are being sold monthly, which will spur the sale of Willys, my guess is Nope, ain't dead.
Title: Re: RIP, WM100
Post by: ceedee on January 06, 2019, 03:51:25 PM
Fair enough. I’d love to go the Pi route, but I don’t have a CM, and I’m sure that they won’t take back my WM.  While I could use some of the features that are broken, it mostly works.  My biggest fear is that the app & firmware will be updated a week after I ditch the beast and go Pi.
Title: Re: RIP, WM100?
Post by: brobin on January 06, 2019, 03:52:02 PM
Not dead but not very useful either. Sort of like some of us old guys around here.  rofl
Title: Re: RIP, WM100?
Post by: SkipWX10 on January 06, 2019, 03:59:27 PM
Agree, not dead but truly a glorified phone app remote...which I have to admit I like since my phone is always in my pocket, unlike a Palm Pad....so, I hope they keep supporting it and it's servers.

The best thing that could happen first, in my mind, in it's current state anyway, would be to give it 'local' control over the 'local' wi-fi network and not require Authinx servers
Title: Re: RIP, WM100?
Post by: Tuicemen on January 06, 2019, 04:39:27 PM
The WM100 isn't dead however like any newborn it's growth depends on how much it is feed. Sadly Authinix doesn't have control of that nor does it appear they will have any time soon. :( :(
I wouldn't ditch the WM100 as much as just put it aside until it starts to grow again. The WM100 will never have RF so going the PI route will get you what you want in the fastest time possible.
the software on the PiX10Hub has had over 30 upgrades since first being created and the developers are currently busy working on adding more options.
True the software is nothing new and has been arround for some time but these are growing.
Perhaps when the WM100 app developer realizes they too are risking going hungry some movement will happen.

Truth be told the WM100 was/is a proof of concept much like my Pi embedded CM15A the only difference is the WM100 has stalled. Even if the WM100 software was to regain development it needs a hardware upgrade for RF to provide the advantages that provides.
As well the CM15A needs an upgrade to provide the PLC punch of the WM100. I'm confident both will receive these but which one gets it first will most likely depend on demand  ::) :'
Title: Re: RIP, WM100?
Post by: racerfern on January 06, 2019, 05:12:22 PM
Quote
but which one gets it first will most likely depend on demand
In this case, I think it's the other way around. Authinx, I'm sure knows where the demand will be. Which one are they going to put their development dollars behind?

IMO it would be a lot easier and make more sense to give an RF upgrade to the CM15A. There are far more 15As out there that will never get plugged into a PiZero. If and when Authinx does this, they need to be able to bring the signal across both sides of the wiring by selling a package that is easy to install without people being told they need to buy another piece.

My 2’
Title: Re: RIP, WM100?
Post by: Tuicemen on January 06, 2019, 05:53:35 PM
Authinx, I'm sure knows where they hope the demand will be. rofl
 ;)
A upgrade to the CM15A to a better RF and PLC  would be the best option as It hopefully would not change the protocol and definitely should not require a new case.

A upgrade to the WM to simply include RF would require a new case as the unit is currently packed tight it would also require new software as the current developer holds the protocol and there are no other applications that can currently talk to it.
Title: Re: RIP, WM100
Post by: Noam on January 07, 2019, 09:22:02 AM
... and I’m sure that they won’t take back my WM.  ...
It doesn't hurt to try. If you contact them, and simply tell them that it doesn't work as advertised (no battery-backed clock, so timers are useless if there is a power interruption, for example), you might be able to get them to issue you an RMA and a refund. At worst, you will spend a few minutes trying - and be no worse off than you are now (if they don't let you return it).
Title: Re: RIP, WM100?
Post by: brobin on January 07, 2019, 11:32:39 AM
If they won't give you a refund ask them to take it back in trade for a CM15A and then use the PiX10Hub with it.
Title: Re: RIP, WM100?
Post by: Tuicemen on January 07, 2019, 11:36:14 AM
If they won't give you a refund ask them to take it back in trade for a CM15A and then use the PiX10Hub with it.
rofl
That just might work! ::) :'
Title: Re: RIP, WM100?
Post by: Tuicemen on January 23, 2019, 08:38:59 AM
My WM100s will soon become door stops. :( at least put away in my rubbermaid bin with my other unused X10 devices.
If/when a new app/firmware release comes out I may again play with it but some how I doubt it.
With the Chinese new year fast aproaching and the speed of the last updates coming I don't expect I'd be playing with these again till next year. B:(
Title: Re: RIP, WM100?
Post by: HA Dave on January 23, 2019, 11:52:09 AM
Once again.....

The WM-100 is a wonderful remote control. It was unfortunately.... created with a total lack of vision. It solved a problem that existed years past. Todays automation requires exploitation of todays technology. And with an eye on what can be accomplished tomorrow.
Title: Re: RIP, WM100?
Post by: Tuicemen on January 23, 2019, 12:23:05 PM
It was unfortunately.... created with a total lack of vision.
Actually the vision was there! It was never intended to be just a glorified remote. We've all seen the slow progress of just getting simple bugs in the software fixed. The age of AI is on us and the tiny computers that communicate to a central hub need software that works. Authinx needs a developer that understands this and knows how to code for it no matter what project they consider going forward. The WM100 has a tinny computer sadly the manufacture and developer don't know how to utilize and make the best of it.
Title: Re: RIP, WM100?
Post by: JeffVolp on January 23, 2019, 03:48:31 PM
The WM100 has a tinny computer sadly the manufacture and developer don't know how to utilize and make the best of it.

The hardware is also crippled by being based on a wireless transceiver that only supports standard PalmPad commands.

Jeff
Title: Re: RIP, WM100?
Post by: Tuicemen on January 23, 2019, 03:59:12 PM
The WM100 has a tinny computer sadly the manufacture and developer don't know how to utilize and make the best of it.

The hardware is also crippled by being based on a wireless transceiver that only supports standard PalmPad commands.

Jeff
Agreed the manufacture cut corners and ignored initial requests which they thought it irrelevant.
Title: Re: RIP, WM100?
Post by: HA Dave on January 23, 2019, 05:01:47 PM
……. the manufacture and developer don't know how to utilize and make the best of it.

Yeah.... like I said. No vision.
Title: Re: RIP, WM100?
Post by: ceedee on January 28, 2019, 01:57:12 PM
Received an email today touting another WM100 "sale." Disappointing that X10 would continue to sell such a crippled product. The email lists many of the "features" that we all know aren’t there, or don’t work.  False advertising.  Shame on them.
Title: Re: RIP, WM100?
Post by: petera on January 28, 2019, 04:18:16 PM
Received an email today touting another WM100 "sale." Disappointing that X10 would continue to sell such a crippled product. The email lists many of the "features" that we all know aren’t there, or don’t work.  False advertising.  Shame on them.

WM100 Pocket Warmers. Plug them in overnight, pop it in to your pocket next morning to keep your hands warm  rofl

I wonder if this is returned stock from disgruntled customers reboxed. Got to shift them somehow.
Title: Re: RIP, WM100?
Post by: akeene on January 31, 2019, 07:19:38 PM
Guess I'm getting too old for this crap.
Now I need to figure if I wan some cherry pi. Or is this apple?
Title: Re: RIP, WM100?
Post by: arizona480 on February 01, 2019, 04:38:19 PM
At least the server hasn't been down in awhile...well, at least when I needed it.  I now see what a lot of you said about missing an internal clock, had to turn off the breaker to the Refrigerator which also knocks out the WM-100's outlet yesterday, none of the lights came on automatically until I made contact with the hub.
Title: Re: RIP, WM100?
Post by: HA Dave on February 01, 2019, 10:00:18 PM
At least the server hasn't been down in awhile...well, at least when I needed it. …………. none of the lights came on automatically until I made contact with the hub.

It's easy to find crappy things to post about the new WM-100. But realistically.... it's the best remote control X10 ever made... and X10 was a leader in remote controls some time ago. Modems, routers, Hubs (garage doors, Internet phones, Home Automation device, etc.).... modern-day electronic sometimes do require more than a passive tolerance. Hubs can require a little active programming, updates and such. I don't think the WM-100 is so much of an effort to keep working. If it just did a little more... went that one step further... and had an Amazon Alexa "skill"...………...THAT would be.... would have been... a game changer.
Title: Re: RIP, WM100?
Post by: Tuicemen on February 01, 2019, 11:44:15 PM
Hubs can require a little active programming, updates and such. I don't think the WM-100 is so much of an effort to keep working. If it just did a little more...
Agreed! If the developer would get off their butt the WM100 still has a chance to become something great even with its flaws. It's to bad it couldn't deliver promises initially made.
Title: Re: RIP, WM100?
Post by: HA Dave on February 02, 2019, 10:44:30 AM
Agreed! If the developer would get off their butt the WM100 still has a chance to become something great even with its flaws. It's to bad it couldn't deliver promises initially made.

We don't (yet) have a "global" marketplace. If in Roman... do as the Romans. If in China... take a bag of cash and be prepared to bribe. "Gifts" are expected as part of a way of doing business in some areas of the world. Even just bottles of American made liquor can go a long way to establishing good working relationships. 
Title: Re: RIP, WM100?
Post by: Mic_ on February 02, 2019, 11:12:07 AM
was the VM 100 just a money grab? The server will eventually go dark; you think? The VM 100 has served my needs, however, I have jumped on the pie bandwagon...Now I have redundancies
Title: Re: RIP, WM100?
Post by: Tuicemen on February 02, 2019, 11:28:52 AM
was the VM 100 just a money grab? The server will eventually go dark; you think? The VM 100 has served my needs, however, I have jumped on the pie bandwagon...Now I have redundancies
I don't believe the WM100 was a money grab. As to the server going dark that is always possible with any HA hub now a days. Luckily you now have something that doesn't rely soly on a remote server to work. I still have my MW100 connected (my wife likes it) however all my timers an macros are on  my PiX10Hub with HomeGenie. Maybe at some point HG will be able to talk with the WM100  >!
Title: Re: RIP, WM100?
Post by: dave w on February 02, 2019, 12:07:08 PM
It's easy to find crappy things to post about the new WM-100. But realistically.... it's the best remote control X10 ever made...
Yepper, I totally agree. There is some good things to be said about the WM100. And I am betting a number of non-forum X10 users think it is better than a PB&J on sliced bread. But I just don't like it relying on a "cloud" server. However since it does, it would be nice if Authinx would develop an Alexa skill while waiting on the developer to fix the app/firmware.
Title: Re: RIP, WM100?
Post by: Tuicemen on February 02, 2019, 12:19:34 PM
it would be nice if Authinx would develop an Alexa skill while waiting on the developer to fix the app/firmware.
And there is the problem! They can't! Nor can anyone else other then the developer.
Title: Re: RIP, WM100?
Post by: dave w on February 02, 2019, 02:06:23 PM
it would be nice if Authinx would develop an Alexa skill while waiting on the developer to fix the app/firmware.
And there is the problem! They can't! Nor can anyone else other then the developer.
Well, based on HA Dave's comment  http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=30795.msg180597#msg180597 ,  lets take up a collection and send the developer a case of wine from Napa valley (or maybe a couple pints of white lightning) .  Sneaking through China customs might be a problem...maybe a couple of bottles in the box to the attention of "CUSTOMS". rofl
Title: Re: RIP, WM100?
Post by: HA Dave on February 02, 2019, 02:43:04 PM
….. The server will eventually go dark; you think?

The sun itself... will eventually go dark… I promise. But my money is that all servers will go dark long before that.

…... I have jumped on the pie bandwagon...Now I have redundancies

Redundancies are good. As preppers say: 2 is 1, and 1 is none. Which means we need 3 of everything.
Title: Re: RIP, WM100?
Post by: HA Dave on February 02, 2019, 02:59:08 PM
….. I just don't like it relying on a "cloud" server.

I know..... but the very best Home Automation available... IS cloud based. I don't know about the Internet in other places. But around here.... we've had high speed broadband for about 20 years. It's as reliable as TV, Radio, and the electric power. For me.... the only way my setup can give me more control... is if I turn that control over to the cloud.

….Well, based on HA Dave's comment  http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=30795.msg180597#msg180597 ,  lets take up a collection and send the developer a case of wine from Napa valley (or maybe a couple pints of white lightning) .  Sneaking through China customs might be a problem...maybe a couple of bottles in the box to the attention of "CUSTOMS". rofl

I knew a guy who was hired for a consultation by someone who had a specific old car to restore (The guy I knew was an expert on that particular car). Sometimes.... you just need to accept what you don't know.... and ask an expert. I could be completely wrong..... but I get the impression that the new X10 needed to consult with someone more experienced with product development in China.
Title: Re: RIP, WM100?
Post by: Tuicemen on February 02, 2019, 03:35:25 PM
I get the impression that the new X10 needed to consult with someone more experienced with product development in China.[/b]
They certainly definitely shouldn't have went with the manufacture X10WTI used for this. ::) :'
Title: Re: RIP, WM100?
Post by: dhouston on February 02, 2019, 04:24:57 PM
I get the impression that the new X10 needed to consult with someone more experienced with product development in China.
They certainly definitely shouldn't have went with the manufacture X10WTI used for this. ::) :'
Meet the new boss
Same as the old boss
https://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/who/wontgetfooledagain.html (https://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/who/wontgetfooledagain.html)
Title: Re: RIP, WM100?
Post by: HA Dave on February 03, 2019, 10:39:22 AM
They certainly definitely shouldn't have went with the manufacture X10WTI used for this. ::) :'

I don't know. I can solder... but that's about it. I didn't even crack open the case of my WM-100. But of those in-the-know about such hardware products here at this forum.... had good things to say about the WM-100..... as a hardware product.

I think "the new X10" failed to realize that Home Automation is a mixture of hardware and software. And they needed their own "in-house" experts for BOTH. I don't believe they ever considered their own servers.... either in-house (in Texas?) or elsewhere. Even the OLD CM15A was dependent on Internet connectivity for full functionally. Everybody knows Home Automation is a part of cutting edge tech. It always has been and likely always will be.

I bet X10 could still rescue the WM-100. With a  hired China expert representative, to help them make amends in China. And then fix and update the WM-100's with the oversight, and input from an in-house code writer.
Title: Re: RIP, WM100?
Post by: dave w on February 03, 2019, 04:00:53 PM
But around here.... we've had high speed broadband for about 20 years. It's as reliable as TV, Radio, and the electric power.
Good for you, which is why you are always touting "the cloud". Consider your self fortunate.

However, every time we get an all day rain, our cable system becomes hit or miss for a day. TV becomes pixelated, dial tone may or may not be there, and internet is the same...maybe - maybe not. Yes I have complained to our cable company...in writing.
"System has been neglected for years, and now we are trying to upgrade as fast as we can..." blah, blah, blah, is their answers. 

Ten years ago Verizon said they would have FIOS here, in two years. Then Verizon decided they wanted to buy a few more cell phone companies and the FCC said "then divest some of your wired system". And Frontier bought our local phone system...goodbye FIOS. 

Which is why we can't put all our eggs in "the cloud" basket. 
Title: Re: RIP, WM100?
Post by: dhouston on February 03, 2019, 04:26:14 PM
But of those in-the-know about such hardware products here at this forum.... had good things to say about the WM-100..... as a hardware product.
I think most of those in-the-know became in-the-NO upon further examination of the hardware.
Title: Re: RIP, WM100?
Post by: HA Dave on February 03, 2019, 06:26:22 PM
…. Good for you, which is why you are always touting "the cloud". Consider your self fortunate. ……….

I've always considered myself fortunate.... long before the internet. But yes... globally most population centers (AKA cities) have solid high speed broadband. It explains the 50 million AI devices sold in America alone.

………. we can't put all our eggs in "the cloud" basket.

No. And, I wouldn't put all my home automation dependency in a single technology either. Nor would I want to miss out on the newest and best of Home Automation either. Note... if you lose (or pull the plug on) Internet service.... most devices merely sit quietly and wait for a reconnection.
Title: Re: RIP, WM100?
Post by: arizona480 on February 04, 2019, 11:52:56 AM
At least the server hasn't been down in awhile...well, at least when I needed it. …………. none of the lights came on automatically until I made contact with the hub.

It's easy to find crappy things to post about the new WM-100. But realistically.... it's the best remote control X10 ever made... and X10 was a leader in remote controls some time ago. Modems, routers, Hubs (garage doors, Internet phones, Home Automation device, etc.).... modern-day electronic sometimes do require more than a passive tolerance. Hubs can require a little active programming, updates and such. I don't think the WM-100 is so much of an effort to keep working. If it just did a little more... went that one step further... and had an Amazon Alexa "skill"...………...THAT would be.... would have been... a game changer.
I agree with you there, I enjoy the WM 100, as long as the server stays put and works at least 99.9% of the time.  That time sync is annoying as I have one smartphone that pulls it's time from the T-Mobile network and another smartphone that stays at home and uses WiFi that does not have a way to keep it's clock perfectly.  So the app is always complaining about the 30 sec average offset.