X10 Community Forum

🔌General Home Automation => Automating Your House => Troubleshooting Automation Problems => Topic started by: Walt2 on March 05, 2019, 09:50:44 AM

Title: Filters: X10's XPPF vs Smarthome's FilterLinc (1626-5/10)
Post by: Walt2 on March 05, 2019, 09:50:44 AM
Well, I had "tuned" my X10 system so that it was working nearly flawlessly.

My flat screen TV died.    :(    So, I picked up a new one last Sunday.    The TV works great, but now my X10 system nearly stopped.   

I can get a few regular commands (on, off, etc) to go thru, but none of the extended commands (pre-set dim, etc).   If I unplug my new TV, everything goes back to working.

So, I am thinking of buying an X10 filter for the new TV.    Good thought?

And if I buy an X10 filter, which one is better?   X10's own XPPF, or Smarthome's FilterLinc?    The Smarthome filter costs a few bucks more, but does that actually buy one a better product?

I would like to hear what other's opinion or experience has been for this.   :angel:

Thanks!
Title: Re: Filters: X10's XPPF vs Smarthome's FilterLinc (1626-5/10)
Post by: JeffVolp on March 05, 2019, 09:53:55 AM
For low current devices like a TV, the X10 XPPF is an excellent filter.

Jeff
Title: Re: Filters: X10's XPPF vs Smarthome's FilterLinc (1626-5/10)
Post by: Brian H on March 05, 2019, 03:20:27 PM
The XPPF does work well.
Just don't push it too close to its 5 amp rating. Unless they where updated with heavier coils. Mine got hot if the current was close to the 5 amp ratings.

The FilterLinc is larger and usually plunged into the top outlet for a more stability. Blocking the lower outlet. So it also has a unfiltered  pass through outlet on the front.
Title: Re: Filters: X10's XPPF vs Smarthome's FilterLinc (1626-5/10)
Post by: brobin on March 05, 2019, 03:38:07 PM
You'll be fine with the XPPF for the TV but for heavier loads like laser printers use Jeff's XTB-F10's to handle the current.
Title: Re: Filters: X10's XPPF vs Smarthome's FilterLinc (1626-5/10)
Post by: arizona480 on March 07, 2019, 01:47:37 PM
I didn't know laser printers could pull over 500 watts.
Title: Re: Filters: X10's XPPF vs Smarthome's FilterLinc (1626-5/10)
Post by: JeffVolp on March 07, 2019, 01:57:16 PM
I didn't know laser printers could pull over 500 watts.

My Canon D530 says:  110-127V 50/60Hz 5.6A

Jeff
Title: Re: Filters: X10's XPPF vs Smarthome's FilterLinc (1626-5/10)
Post by: dhouston on March 07, 2019, 02:26:04 PM
I didn't know laser printers could pull over 500 watts.
My Canon D530 says:  110-127V 50/60Hz 5.6A
My Dell C1760nw says 220-240 VAC, 50/60Hz, 5.0A or 110-127 VAC, 50/60Hz, 11.0A and I was surprised by those numbers.
Title: Re: Filters: X10's XPPF vs Smarthome's FilterLinc (1626-5/10)
Post by: brobin on March 07, 2019, 05:06:38 PM
I didn't know laser printers could pull over 500 watts.
I even had the fuse in a 10A filter blow once due to the inrush current drawn by a Brother laser printer when starting a print job from the printer's sleep mode.  Six years ago we were renting an older home while ours was under construction and every time that printer started my PC would shutdown even though it was on a big UPS 9the printer was plugged in elsewhere). In the new house the printer is on a dedicated 20A circuit.
Title: Re: Filters: X10's XPPF vs Smarthome's FilterLinc (1626-5/10)
Post by: dave w on March 07, 2019, 08:47:23 PM
My Dell C1760nw says 220-240 VAC, 50/60Hz, 5.0A or 110-127 VAC, 50/60Hz, 11.0A and I was surprised by those numbers.
wow. My HP M251 color laser draws one quarter of that when printing. Does your Dell double as a space heater or hot plate?  rofl
Title: Re: Filters: X10's XPPF vs Smarthome's FilterLinc (1626-5/10)
Post by: HA Dave on March 07, 2019, 09:21:45 PM
My flat screen TV died.    :(    So, I picked up a new one last Sunday.    The TV works great, but now my X10 system nearly stopped.

OMG I must be slipping. I recently picked up a new "smart" TV... as a replacement for my living room TV.... which I moved into my man-cave. The man-cave is where most of my automation hubs and such are located. And the TV shares the very same circuit as most of my Hubs. I hadn't even tested either the new TV or the new location for the old TV. I just plugged-n-played.... what was I thinking.

The good news... is everything (now) tests fine. And I do have an extra filter or two.... if needed. Although that would've been a problem for the TV I hung on the wall (with a recessed plug so no wires are exposed).
Title: Re: Filters: X10's XPPF vs Smarthome's FilterLinc (1626-5/10)
Post by: brobin on March 07, 2019, 10:04:54 PM
I just plugged-n-played.... what was I thinking.[/b][/i]


You mean plugged and pRayed, right?  rofl
Title: Re: Filters: X10's XPPF vs Smarthome's FilterLinc (1626-5/10)
Post by: HA Dave on March 08, 2019, 09:00:36 AM
You mean plugged and pRayed, right?  rofl

That would be the correct term! But for the life of me.... I don't know why... I didn't even give it a 2nd thought. Even my wife knows any new devices (plugged in) are cleared/checked.... STEP ONE.

I had been down (off my feet) for a few weeks (injured). And had excitedly bought a new TV in time for the super bowl (which I didn't watch, and the TV sat for a month while I healed enough to install). And I was really hyped about having a wall-mounted TV in my man-cave too. Maybe... I am just getting sloppy in my old age.

I did after all, have a slight wireless (streaming) problem with the Apple TV (streaming device) I had selected to use on the wall mounted TV.... which a quickly solved with a spare patch (CAT5) cable.... plugged into a near-by switcher. The Apple TV was remotely located (using a 25' HDMI) along with a blue ray player.

Whatever the cause of the occasional problems.... they can always exist. X10, WiFi, existing wiring (I had to run eletric too). It's always about finding solutions!
Title: Re: Filters: X10's XPPF vs Smarthome's FilterLinc (1626-5/10)
Post by: Walt2 on March 09, 2019, 09:18:08 AM
Just to follow-up, I got one of the X10 Pro XPPF filters, and I am pleased to report back, that it worked!    My X10 system's communication is back to the robustness it had before I purchased the new TV.

I have to admit I was a bit hesitant.  Back a few decades ago, I experimented with X10 filters as I tried to improve the communication reliability of my system. Those filters, proved to be pretty much useless.
Title: Re: Filters: X10's XPPF vs Smarthome's FilterLinc (1626-5/10)
Post by: JeffVolp on March 09, 2019, 09:47:44 AM
Back a few decades ago, I experimented with X10 filters as I tried to improve the communication reliability of my system. Those filters, proved to be pretty much useless.

All X10 filters place some load on X10 signals, reducing their strength.  How much load can be seen in this post:

    http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=30226

Unless you have a high power signal booster, X10 signals can be relatively weak.  So just blindly isolating loads with filters can have a negative effect if some of those loads were not signal suckers or noise sources.  First you have to determine which loads are offenders, and then isolate just them.  And note that some filters - particularly the high current XPF - can be even more of a signal sucker than the load you are trying to isolate.

Jeff
Title: Re: Filters: X10's XPPF vs Smarthome's FilterLinc (1626-5/10)
Post by: Walt2 on March 10, 2019, 10:11:19 AM
Back a few decades ago, I experimented with X10 filters as I tried to improve the communication reliability of my system. Those filters, proved to be pretty much useless.

All X10 filters place some load on X10 signals, reducing their strength.  How much load can be seen in this post:

    http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=30226

Unless you have a high power signal booster, X10 signals can be relatively weak.  So just blindly isolating loads with filters can have a negative effect if some of those loads were not signal suckers or noise sources.  First you have to determine which loads are offenders, and then isolate just them.  And note that some filters - particularly the high current XPF - can be even more of a signal sucker than the load you are trying to isolate.

Jeff

Either that, or back a few decades ago, the X10 filters were more "snake oil" than actually functional.  ::)

As I remember them, those X10 filters weren't much larger than the plug itself, and inside were simply a capacitor.
Title: Re: Filters: X10's XPPF vs Smarthome's FilterLinc (1626-5/10)
Post by: JeffVolp on March 10, 2019, 11:20:48 AM
As I remember them, those X10 filters weren't much larger than the plug itself, and inside were simply a capacitor.

Gee, I don't remember any like that.  The X10 XPPF has been available for decades, and it is actually a very good filter for most devices.

Jeff
Title: Re: Filters: X10's XPPF vs Smarthome's FilterLinc (1626-5/10)
Post by: HA Dave on March 10, 2019, 02:35:16 PM
As I remember them, those X10 filters weren't much larger than the plug itself, and inside were simply a capacitor.

Mine look like (from a distance) a brown X10 module. Same size... shape.
Title: Re: Filters: X10's XPPF vs Smarthome's FilterLinc (1626-5/10)
Post by: JeffVolp on March 10, 2019, 02:54:31 PM
As I remember them, those X10 filters weren't much larger than the plug itself, and inside were simply a capacitor.
Mine look like (from a distance) a brown X10 module. Same size... shape.

Yes, that is the XPPF.  There is a whole lot more in there than just a capacitor.  There are 3 inductors in series with the load and 3 capacitors to shunt off noise.

Jeff
Title: Re: Filters: X10's XPPF vs Smarthome's FilterLinc (1626-5/10)
Post by: arizona480 on March 24, 2019, 11:55:18 PM
I didn't know laser printers could pull over 500 watts.
My Canon D530 says:  110-127V 50/60Hz 5.6A
My Dell C1760nw says 220-240 VAC, 50/60Hz, 5.0A or 110-127 VAC, 50/60Hz, 11.0A and I was surprised by those numbers.
Wow, I could curl up with that on a cold winter's night and stay warm!