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📱🖥️PiX10Hub ( Always Evolving Open Source) => 🏥Help and Trouble Shooting => Topic started by: brobin on June 24, 2019, 02:10:59 PM

Title: Raspi 4B
Post by: brobin on June 24, 2019, 02:10:59 PM
RasPi 4B now available:

The camera, display, A/V jack, POE pins, on board bluetooth and wifi have returned, but there's a tasty list of new additions to the 4. So lets have a quick run down of the exciting new tech on offer:

    New 64-bit 1.5GHz quad core Cortex-A72 (Arm v8)
    1GB, 2GB or 4GB of memory, your choice
    Two new micro HDMI slots for dual screen action at 4K
    5V DC power via USB-C (with a new minimum 3A current)
    USB 3.0 capability
Title: Re: Raspi 4B
Post by: bkenobi on June 24, 2019, 05:02:51 PM
Although I doubt it will matter for a RPi, but the Ethernet is now bumped from 300Mb to Gigabit.
Title: Re: Raspi 4B
Post by: petera on June 24, 2019, 05:32:29 PM
RasPi 4B now available:

The camera, display, A/V jack, POE pins, on board bluetooth and wifi have returned, but there's a tasty list of new additions to the 4. So lets have a quick run down of the exciting new tech on offer:

    New 64-bit 1.5GHz quad core Cortex-A72 (Arm v8)
    1GB, 2GB or 4GB of memory, your choice
    Two new micro HDMI slots for dual screen action at 4K
    5V DC power via USB-C (with a new minimum 3A current)
    USB 3.0 capability

And no official version of Raspbian to run on it. You could of course build your own Raspbian kernel if you were in dire need to test it. :)%
Title: Re: Raspi 4B
Post by: petera on June 24, 2019, 06:07:12 PM
Although I doubt it will matter for a RPi, but the Ethernet is now bumped from 300Mb to Gigabit.

The dual HDMI feature should be a great addition to the headless server user  rofl

After the euphoria of its release has died down I hope that those who rushed in to buy it realise that this model is a complete redesign with many changes to architecture and the Raspbian OS will be in a fledgling state. Many months of trial and error ahead I imagine.
Title: Re: Raspi 4B
Post by: bkenobi on June 25, 2019, 05:12:12 PM
The dual 4k monitor support was the first thing I noticed.  Since the goal of the RPi was originally to provide a development platform for kids in under-developed countries I guess I'm impressed that they can get multiple high end monitors these days!
Title: Re: Raspi 4B
Post by: petera on June 25, 2019, 05:26:05 PM
The dual 4k monitor support was the first thing I noticed.  Since the goal of the RPi was originally to provide a development platform for kids in under-developed countries I guess I'm impressed that they can get multiple high end monitors these days!

I just noticed that Raspbian Buster has arrived on the shelves. It's the main Raspbian OS available for download. I imagine the Stretch repositories will start to contract somewhat. Might be time for HG users to start the switch to Buster now.

I think the Raspberry Pi ethos has shifted somewhat. Large volume orders being accepted now. The one per order directive appears to have been dispensed with.
Title: Re: Raspi 4B
Post by: Tuicemen on June 25, 2019, 06:25:10 PM


I just noticed that Raspbian Buster has arrived on the shelves. It's the main Raspbian OS available for download. I imagine the Stretch repositories will start to contract somewhat. Might be time for HG users to start the switch to Buster now.

As much as I agree with keeping things updated I wouldn't recommend HG users or any anyone using a Raspi for HA to update to Buster, unless they have time to play around. Typically this isn't HA season. ;)
Title: Re: Raspi 4B
Post by: petera on June 25, 2019, 08:28:52 PM


I just noticed that Raspbian Buster has arrived on the shelves. It's the main Raspbian OS available for download. I imagine the Stretch repositories will start to contract somewhat. Might be time for HG users to start the switch to Buster now.

As much as I agree with keeping things updated I wouldn't recommend HG users or any anyone using a Raspi for HA to update to Buster, unless they have time to play around. Typically this isn't HA season. ;)

Depends on what part of the world you are in  :)%

Changes in security certs are already under way among other things. It really is a straightforward backup, install Raspbian Buster from the repos and HG from the GitHub and restore your backup and you're good to go.

If you don't experiment you don't develop and HG certainly will grind to a halt. It's on life support as far as development is concerned. I'm coming from this with software like Home Assistant in mind where there's an update at least once every two weeks.

Raspbian and Mono doesn't stay still as far as development is concerned. One day your HG will stop working if you do.
Title: Re: Raspi 4B
Post by: Tuicemen on June 26, 2019, 07:25:09 AM

Depends on what part of the world you are in  :)%

Changes in security certs are already under way among other things. It really is a straightforward backup, install Raspbian Buster from the repos and HG from the GitHub and restore your backup and you're good to go.

If you don't experiment you don't develop and HG certainly will grind to a halt. It's on life support as far as development is concerned. I'm coming from this with software like Home Assistant in mind where there's an update at least once every two weeks.

Raspbian and Mono doesn't stay still as far as development is concerned. One day your HG will stop working if you do.
True, however updating is not always a smooth process. You run Home Assistant and I assume the upgrade to Buster went smooth for you if you updated a HG setup to Buster and had no issues then I understand the recomendation to upgrade a HG setup.
The first rainy day I plan to attempt a move to Buster with HG on one of my pi boards and will report back.
I'll also start to create a new PiX10Hub image if all went well.
 >!
Title: Re: Raspi 4B
Post by: bkenobi on June 26, 2019, 11:48:34 AM
Considering the cost of a 8-16GB microSD card and how easy it is to set up a Raspbian image + HG, I see no down side it giving it a try.  If it doesn't go well, shut down and install a stable image.  I personally would recommend having 1 or 2 backup cards sitting by your HA system anyway in case things fail at an inopportune time (guests over, leaving for vacation, etc.).  Since people should have a stack of microSD anyway, take one out and configure a testing configuration on it to see if Buster works...
Title: Re: Raspi 4B
Post by: petera on June 26, 2019, 05:23:43 PM
Considering the cost of a 8-16GB microSD card and how easy it is to set up a Raspbian image + HG, I see no down side it giving it a try.  If it doesn't go well, shut down and install a stable image.  I personally would recommend having 1 or 2 backup cards sitting by your HA system anyway in case things fail at an inopportune time (guests over, leaving for vacation, etc.).  Since people should have a stack of microSD anyway, take one out and configure a testing configuration on it to see if Buster works...

I installed Buster on a USB SSD using a Raspberry Pi 3b + yesterday and just for the hell of it Installed HG. interesting results. A few minor tweaks but it booted fine.
Title: Re: Raspi 4B
Post by: Tuicemen on June 27, 2019, 06:55:17 AM
I have several SD cards on hand. However this time of year doesnt supply me with much HA play time. Knowing a bit of what to expect ahead of time helps me with the time constraints I currently have. Petera can you elaborate on your Buster HG install?
Minor tweaks for an exterianced Linux user may be daunting for a novice or beginner.
Title: Re: Raspi 4B
Post by: petera on June 27, 2019, 10:01:45 AM
I have several SD cards on hand. However this time of year doesnt supply me with much HA play time. Knowing a bit of what to expect ahead of time helps me with the time constraints I currently have. Petera can you elaborate on your Buster HG install?
Minor tweaks for an exterianced Linux user may be daunting for a novice or beginner.

Changes made mainly to reflect booting from USB SSD. Donít need an SD card inserted in the Pi now. Goodbye failing SD cards.
Title: Re: Raspi 4B
Post by: bkenobi on June 27, 2019, 02:20:51 PM
Does using an SSD prevent a sudden power failure from damaging the image?  If the drive is nice with its write policies I would think it could be much more stable than the fragile SD cards.
Title: Re: Raspi 4B
Post by: petera on June 27, 2019, 03:28:35 PM
Does using an SSD prevent a sudden power failure from damaging the image?  If the drive is nice with its write policies I would think it could be much more stable than the fragile SD cards.

Good question. I must run a test to see.

The overall feel on SSD is a much smoother experience. Read/writes feel smoother too. Iíd definitely recommend it for anyone running a logging system.
Title: Re: Raspi 4B
Post by: petera on June 28, 2019, 06:38:59 AM
Does using an SSD prevent a sudden power failure from damaging the image?  If the drive is nice with its write policies I would think it could be much more stable than the fragile SD cards.

Just pulled the power on the Pi while it was running HG. Reconnected and rebooted fine.

The SD card is fine low intensity read/write operations but the SSD device is the way forward for logging applications.

Interestingly, the Pi4 will not currently boot from a USB mass storage device but changes to the firmware/kernel is underway so it should be available shortly. The Pi4 4gb was out of stock so glad I didn't take the 2gb option. Should be back in stock by the time the boot issue is resolved.
Title: Re: Raspi 4B
Post by: Tuicemen on June 28, 2019, 06:50:32 AM
Awsome, I think I have a USB SSD drive addaptor laying arround. Not sure which pi I'll have a chance to add Buster to yet but it my be better to load my 3B+ with it first.

My old Asus Eee Box has a SSD drive and is vert fast running HG.
Its specs are less then the Pi 4B with 3 gigs mem so the 4B is looking like a winner. The 4gig version is currently out of stock where I've looked too.
Title: Re: Raspi 4B
Post by: brobin on June 28, 2019, 12:32:41 PM
I received this email from The Pi Hut this morning:

"Good News! The Raspberry Pi 4 Model B is back in stock here at The Pi Hut.
Available (at the time of writing!) in 1GB, 2GB & 4GB!
Be quick, stock is selling FAST!"
Title: Re: Raspi 4B
Post by: petera on June 28, 2019, 04:35:35 PM
I received this email from The Pi Hut this morning:

"Good News! The Raspberry Pi 4 Model B is back in stock here at The Pi Hut.
Available (at the time of writing!) in 1GB, 2GB & 4GB!
Be quick, stock is selling FAST!"

No hurry. Still not booting from USB or PXE so no panic buy needed. PXE will be given priority so looks like it will be a while before a solution to the USB boot will be released.
Title: Re: Raspi 4B
Post by: dhouston on July 09, 2019, 04:54:54 PM
It may still be a good idea to wait.
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2019/07/raspberry-pi-4-uses-incorrect-usb-c-design-wont-work-with-some-chargers/
Title: Re: Raspi 4B
Post by: petera on July 10, 2019, 06:58:15 AM
It may still be a good idea to wait.
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2019/07/raspberry-pi-4-uses-incorrect-usb-c-design-wont-work-with-some-chargers/

The change in architecture has introduced some unintended consequences. A change in firmware to reduce running temperature of the processor is required. It looks like there may well be a need to release another version of the Pi 4 at some stage to correct some design anomalies.

This coupled with the release of a new version of Raspbian has the early adopters scrambling for solutions. By definition these units are tinkering boards albeit with a healthy community input but buyers need to understand there's no guarantee that they will work "out of the box". Caveat emptor.
Title: Re: Raspi 4B
Post by: dhouston on July 10, 2019, 12:03:23 PM
This article provides a bit more detail.
https://www.theverge.com/2019/7/10/20688655/raspberry-pi-4-usb-c-port-bug-e-marked-cables-audio-accessory-charging