X10 Community Forum

📱X10 WIFI => 🗯General Discussion => Topic started by: tc on January 01, 2020, 05:31:45 PM

Title: WM100
Post by: tc on January 01, 2020, 05:31:45 PM
I just bought a WM100 and see that macros are not supported yet.  I like the work around of using the CM15 in the interim and I will try that.

Is anyone aware if there is anyone working on software upgrades for the WM100 iPhone app?

Thanks.
Title: Re: WM100
Post by: SkipWX10 on January 01, 2020, 06:25:34 PM
It seems that the WM100 was a one-shot deal from the manufacturer...they have not been eager to support the product and make changes/enhancements.

Title: Re: WM100
Post by: Brian H on January 02, 2020, 06:25:33 AM
I have seen no messages here on any X10 movement on updating the WM100's APP.
Title: Re: WM100
Post by: petera on January 02, 2020, 09:06:10 AM
Much the same on the X10 European front. The App in this instance was an afterthought and no real development occurred after its release. From here on I reckon any further X10 development will be of the home spun variety. I can’t see any commercial enterprise wanting to dip a toe into the X10 world. It doesn’t make commercial sense. https://www.uk-automation.co.uk/marmitek-tip10rf-smartphone-to-x10-interface/
Title: Re: WM100
Post by: brobin on January 02, 2020, 12:33:06 PM
I just bought a WM100 and see that macros are not supported yet.  I like the work around of using the CM15 in the interim and I will try that.

Is anyone aware if there is anyone working on software upgrades for the WM100 iPhone app?

Thanks.
The WM100 is a poorly executed product that appears dead in terms of development. For me, without an Alexa skill it was a non-starter.  My advice - return it now while you can. 

Instead, take a look at the Smartenit Harmony products that have a properly implemented and supported Alexa Skill (as well the equivalent for GH) plus Android & IOS apps and a web portal.  The basic unit, the P2, supports X10 & Insteon using a 2412 or 2413 S or U PLM as well as ZigBee devices.  The P2 connects to your network via Ethernet and only costs $60 (plus $15 for the 2412U PLM if needed).  That's at least $35 less than the WM100 and it does more.

It has a scheduler that includes accurate sunrise/sunset offsets and, while no macros per se, it has a "Micro App" feature that lets you control a group of devices as one.  Worth a look at: https://smartenit.com/product/harmony-p2/
Title: Re: WM100
Post by: Brian H on January 02, 2020, 01:58:14 PM
I don't believe the Harmony P2 has a serial port. So the 2412U or 2413U would probably be the ones to pick from.
Title: Re: WM100
Post by: brobin on January 02, 2020, 02:44:48 PM
I don't believe the Harmony P2 has a serial port. So the 2412U or 2413U would probably be the ones to pick from.
That's correct for all three Harmony models.  The 2412U which they bundle for $15 over the $60 P2 price is the way to go.  I only mention the 'S' in case someone might already have one (as I did) and wants to use it with a USB-to-serial adapter.  I did that when I first got the unit and later upgraded to a 2413U PLM so I could use an Insteon wireless open/close sensor on my package drop box.  When the lid on the box is opened the unit receives the Insteon RF signal and sends a text and an X10 command that flashes a lamp.  Other than the wireless Insteon ability I don't think there's any other difference from the 2412.
Title: Re: WM100
Post by: Brian H on January 02, 2020, 06:32:01 PM
Yes. The 2413S/U are Dual band with Insteon RF and power line communications. Switching power supplies.
2412S/U older power line only communications and power transformer linear power supply.
Title: Re: WM100
Post by: brobin on January 02, 2020, 08:31:51 PM
Switching power supplies.

I have my spare caps ready!  :)
I think that's why Smartenit stuck with the 2412U.
Title: Re: WM100
Post by: x10wizard on January 03, 2020, 12:04:24 AM
Instead, take a look at the Smartenit Harmony products that have a properly implemented and supported Alexa Skill (as well the equivalent for GH) plus Android & IOS apps and a web portal.  The basic unit, the P2, supports X10 & Insteon using a 2412 or 2413 S or U PLM as well as ZigBee devices.  The P2 connects to your network via Ethernet and only costs $50 (plus $25 for the 2412U PLM if needed).  That's at least $35 less than the WM100 and it does more.

It has a scheduler that includes accurate sunrise/sunset offsets and, while no macros per se, it has a "Micro App" feature that lets you control a group of devices as one.  Worth a look at: https://smartenit.com/product/harmony-p2/

No macros?  The description for the Smartenit App says ... The Automation Rules feature offers even more unprecedented control, allowing you to set up automatic schedules and allow devices to influence each other.  Even complex programs and scenarios can be set up through an intuitive, “If A happens, then make B happen”, framework.
Title: Re: WM100
Post by: brobin on January 03, 2020, 01:36:49 AM
Yes you can do all that quite extensively.  There are different definitions for the term 'macro' in various products and I wasn't sure what the term equates to in AHP never having used it so I used it wrong.  But to be clear, the Harmony does have extensive and flexible scheduling with just about any kind of conditional logic you can think of and does live up to its claims.  What's also nice is that X10, Insteon and ZigBee devices can all be used together seamlessly.

I just took a look at the AHP manual and it appears that X10 uses the term 'Macro' the way the Harmony uses the term 'Automation Rule.'

When I think of the term 'macro' I'm thinking in terms of the JDS Stargate where a macro is like a code library entry where a set of instructions can be called by invoking the macro within an 'event' (what AHP calls a 'Macro' and Harmony calls an 'Automation Rule') rather than recreating the same code in multiple events.  That's different than what was referred to and I apologize for the confusion.
Title: Re: WM100
Post by: x10wizard on January 03, 2020, 12:15:19 PM
For about 15 years now I’ve been using two 1132CU’s running Smarthome Manager Plus.  The Smartenit Harmony hub looks like a good upgrade possibility.

Can the Harmony App handle nested logic with delays or timers, such as the following?

If GARAGE DOOR turns ON
   Wait 0 Minutes and 3 Seconds
      If NIGHT is ON
         Turn PORCH ON
         Wait 5 Minutes and 0 Seconds
            Turn PORCH OFF

Also, can the Harmony App do X-10 extended format, such as to turn on a SwitchLinc (using only X10, not Insteon) to a specific brightness level?

On the Smartenit website, there is a chart that compares the P2 vs G1 vs G2.  Only the G2 is listed as having “Mobile App local connectivity”.  Any idea as to exactly what this means?
Title: Re: WM100
Post by: brobin on January 03, 2020, 01:12:21 PM
I understand exactly what you're asking as I do the same with my Stargate.  Since I use the Harmony primarily as an X10/Alexa bridge I haven't explored all the scheduling options.  To get accurate information I've forwarded your questions to Smartenit engineering and I'll post their reply here.

The “Mobile App local connectivity” means that since the G2 has its own WiFi SSID you can connect your phone to it and control it directly with the app even if you have no internet.  The P2 does not have a WiFi radio and connects only through Ethernet.  The phone app sends everything through the mothership which talks to the P2.  Assuming you do have internet, the G2 connects to the mothership as well either using your home's WiFi or Ethernet.
Title: Re: WM100
Post by: brobin on January 03, 2020, 01:32:55 PM

Can the Harmony App handle nested logic with delays or timers, such as the following?

If GARAGE DOOR turns ON
   Wait 0 Minutes and 3 Seconds
      If NIGHT is ON
         Turn PORCH ON
         Wait 5 Minutes and 0 Seconds
            Turn PORCH OFF


I think I did the same thing with this example:

When ALL of these conditions are met:
    Every day when Garage Door is ON
    Every day between sunset - 20 and sunrise +10

Then do the following:
    After 3 secs, turn On Porch
    After 5 mins, turn Off Porch

I know there's a difference between IS on and TURNS on but, at least in the case of a garage door it'll probably be closed within a few minutes anyway. 
Title: Re: WM100
Post by: brobin on January 03, 2020, 03:40:22 PM
I have a response from Smartenit engineering on the questions asked.  I'm going to ask a follow up about 'TURNS' vs 'IS.' What I posted earlier was pretty much in line with this (answers in blue):

FROM SMARTENIT:
"Regarding your questions:

    Can the Harmony App handle nested logic with delays or timers, such as the following?

    If GARAGE DOOR turns ON
       Wait 0 Minutes and 3 Seconds
          If NIGHT is ON
             Turn PORCH ON
             Wait 5 Minutes and 0 Seconds
                Turn PORCH OFF

 Yes it can, however in a different manner.  Internally the Gateway and API's have a nested logic, but we thought that presenting it in such a manner is too techy for an average user.  That's why you will notice that our Automation Rules seems much simpler. Yet they are powerful when combined with multiple conditions.
The above logic can be done in Automation Rules in following way:

    When ALL conditions meet:

        Conditions:

            If Garage Door IS ON

            If NIGHT is ON

        Actions:

            After 3 seconds, Turn PORCH ON

            After 5 minutes, Turn PORCH OFF


    Also, can the Harmony App do X-10 extended format, such as to turn on a SwitchLinc (using only X10, not Insteon) to a specific brightness level?

Sorry we do not. Currently for X10 devices we support simple OnOff and Brightness commands. 


    On the Smartenit website, there is a chart that compares the P2 vs G1 vs G2.  Only the G2 is listed as having “Mobile App local connectivity”.  Any idea as to exactly what this means?" 

Local connectivity feature in the Gateway allows the Mobile App to connect directly to the Gateway (if they are in the same local area network).  When you are in a different network such as 4G or in France,  the App will connect to the Cloud services. 
What this means is, if you lose internet connection at home, the App can still talk to the Gateway while you are at home and thus you can control your devices."
Title: Re: WM100
Post by: JeffVolp on January 03, 2020, 05:02:03 PM
   Also, can the Harmony App do X-10 extended format, such as to turn on a SwitchLinc (using only X10, not Insteon) to a specific brightness level?

Sorry we do not. Currently for X10 devices we support simple OnOff and Brightness commands. 

Unfortunately, that rules it out for those of us who use Leviton dimmers and newer X10 switches that support extended commands.

Jeff
Title: Re: WM100
Post by: x10wizard on January 03, 2020, 05:23:30 PM
Thanks for the info, brobin. 

I can get around the lack of X-10 extended format capability in the Smartenit Harmony by using X-10 scenes in my SwitchLincs, KeypadLincs, and 2456D3 LampLincs. 

So in your house that has the Harmony P2, if the internet is down, the app can’t be used for control, but your user-created program (schedules, etc) that is stored in the P2 will still execute properly?

What about power failures.  Do the P2 and G2 recover properly from a power failure and then continue to execute the user-created program without any sort of intervention or reset being necessary?
Title: Re: WM100
Post by: brobin on January 03, 2020, 05:44:41 PM
   Also, can the Harmony App do X-10 extended format, such as to turn on a SwitchLinc (using only X10, not Insteon) to a specific brightness level?

Sorry we do not. Currently for X10 devices we support simple OnOff and Brightness commands. 

Unfortunately, that rules it out for those of us who use Leviton dimmers and newer X10 switches that support extended commands.

Jeff
As a replacement for your Ocelot, my Stargate or any other controller, yes.  But as an Alexa bridge it still works.  My second home is full of Leviton & Switchlinc dimmers.  In my case I took Housecode N, which I wasn't using, and used it for Alexa triggers.  So, as an example,  N1 gets defined as 'Living Room Lamp' in the Harmony and sends N1 on or off when Alexa tells it to.  So where I might have a Stargate event that essentially says:

If time is between Sunset -20min and 11:45PM
Then Turn on Living Room lamp (L1) at 72%
Else Turn Off Living Room Lamp (L1)

I edit it to this:

If time is between Sunset -20min and 11:45PM
OR IF N1-ON received
Then Turn on Living Room lamp (L1) at 72%
Else Turn Off Living Room Lamp (L1)

So the N1 On command triggers the Ocelot/Stargate/other controller to send the extended code using L1 as usual. The N1 code is simply an IF statement trigger like Sunset and never directly controls a module.

A separate event is created for triggering the OFF command:

If N1-Off received
Then Turn Off Living Room Lamp (L1)

You could also use N1 with standard brightness commands to trigger extended dimming levels although I haven't had a need to do that.
Title: Re: WM100
Post by: brobin on January 03, 2020, 05:58:23 PM
Thanks for the info, brobin. 

I can get around the lack of X-10 extended format capability in the Smartenit Harmony by using X-10 scenes in my SwitchLincs, KeypadLincs, and 2456D3 LampLincs. 

So in your house that has the Harmony P2, if the internet is down, the app can’t be used for control, but your user-created program (schedules, etc) that is stored in the P2 will still execute properly?

What about power failures.  Do the P2 and G2 recover properly from a power failure and then continue to execute the user-created program without any sort of intervention or reset being necessary?

Yes to both. The internet connection to the mothership is only needed to connect to the app and, of course, send any notifications/emails.  Reboot after a power failure is automatic. 
Title: Re: WM100
Post by: JoeHoll on May 11, 2020, 02:04:36 PM
I see that many of the power users here aren't impressed with the WM100. They seem to have discovered many shortcomings which is too bad. I just thought it was worth mentioning that if you only control a small number of things with X-10, and have basic reliability improvers like a bridge repeater, the WM100 works like a champ. It is a big improvement over using mini-timers or serial connected gadgets to a host computer. I have lights and the coffee maker on X-10. I only use four channels in my house. The WM100 makes programming much easier than the mini-timer, which couldn't differentiate week days from weekends. The computer based gadget that I tried sent out such a weak signal that it was basically useless. (sorry, I don't remember it's P/N) If you are simple, like I am, and only want to control a few things, the WM100 and a few X-10 modules is a great way to go.
Title: Re: WM100
Post by: brobin on May 11, 2020, 02:33:24 PM
I see that many of the power users here aren't impressed with the WM100. They seem to have discovered many shortcomings which is too bad. I just thought it was worth mentioning that if you only control a small number of things with X-10, and have basic reliability improvers like a bridge repeater, the WM100 works like a champ. It is a big improvement over using mini-timers or serial connected gadgets to a host computer. I have lights and the coffee maker on X-10. I only use four channels in my house. The WM100 makes programming much easier than the mini-timer, which couldn't differentiate week days from weekends. The computer based gadget that I tried sent out such a weak signal that it was basically useless. (sorry, I don't remember it's P/N) If you are simple, like I am, and only want to control a few things, the WM100 and a few X-10 modules is a great way to go.

It is what it is but for less money (only $59.95!) you can get everything the WM100 offers and much more. Like Alexa/Google Home control baked in, a real time clock and compatibility with not only X10 but Insteon and ZigBee included.  All with a simple intuitive app and web portal.  Anyone looking to buy a WM100 would be well served to have a look at the Smartenit P2 bundled with a 2412U PLM at https://smartenit.com/product/harmony-p2/  for $59.95.
Title: Re: WM100
Post by: AMXoldhack on September 28, 2020, 08:40:34 PM
Thanks for the info, brobin. 

I can get around the lack of X-10 extended format capability in the Smartenit Harmony by using X-10 scenes in my SwitchLincs, KeypadLincs, and 2456D3 LampLincs. 

So in your house that has the Harmony P2, if the internet is down, the app can’t be used for control, but your user-created program (schedules, etc) that is stored in the P2 will still execute properly?

What about power failures.  Do the P2 and G2 recover properly from a power failure and then continue to execute the user-created program without any sort of intervention or reset being necessary?

Yes to both. The internet connection to the mothership is only needed to connect to the app and, of course, send any notifications/emails.  Reboot after a power failure is automatic.

Not sure I'll get a reply on a three month old thread, BWTH. harmoney's web site says the P2 will work with local connectivity.
I've read a whole range of opinions on this in the home automation community. I've asked smatenit to clear this up. B:(
Title: Re: WM100
Post by: brobin on September 28, 2020, 11:27:05 PM
The G2 has built in WiFi so you can connect the phone to the G2's SSID and do local control although I've never had a need or opportunity to try that.  The P2 is Ethernet only so I'd imagine that you would connect to the IP address of the P2 to access it.  Again, I've never tried it but I'll play with it and post more info if I can figure anything out.

I can tell you that both the P2 & G2 will continue to execute the schedules without an internet connection.  Of course notifications and emails would still need internet to function. 
Title: Re: WM100
Post by: brobin on September 30, 2020, 12:34:58 PM
Here's the official response from Smartenit:

Local connection is not supported on the P2, only supported on the G2 currently. 

It works by having the MobileApp send requests to the G2 through the local network (internet connectivity is not needed, but a local network is needed).
Title: Re: WM100
Post by: AMXoldhack on October 01, 2020, 12:06:09 AM
Here's the official response from Smartenit:

Local connection is not supported on the P2, only supported on the G2 currently. 

It works by having the MobileApp send requests to the G2 through the local network (internet connectivity is not needed, but a local network is needed).

I've also sent a request through Smartenit's for the same info. I do trust that the X10 dongle I also order will give me two way X10 communication (powerline only :(  ).
I do wonder if if I'm going to have to jump through hoops - do I have to configure their iPhone app to NOT knee jerk to the internet and talk directly to their their hub through my my WiFi/LAN connection?
Title: Re: WM100
Post by: brobin on October 01, 2020, 12:47:54 AM
The Insteon PLM (the "X10 dongle") does two way X10 signaling as well as Insteon signals.  As for the internet vs. local network, the P2 I believe requires internet to connect to the app while the G2 does not.  I'm curious though, why wouldn't you want it connecting to the internet?  If you plan on using Alexa or Google Home with it, an internet connection is absolutely necessary.
 
Note that whatever timers/schedules you create are stored in and executed by the P2/G2 locally and require no network activity.  There is also a web portal at console.smartenit.io where you can log in and work with the device.
Title: Re: WM100
Post by: AMXoldhack on October 01, 2020, 12:11:10 PM
Brobin,
First let me thank you you for your responses. It seems you are the only one responding to this thread.
I did get my response from Smartenit:

"Yes, indeed. The app tries to connect within the LAN. If it doesn't find a gateway, then it connects to the cloud

Regards,

Al

On Wed, Sep 30, 2020, 8:27 PM Smartenit <contact-form@smartenit.com> wrote:

    The user called Christopher sent you the following message

    I'm sure I contacted Smartenit about the capabilities of your Harmoney P2. But can find no trace of it. Can this hub connect to your  iphone app through my wifi or local LAN without an internet connection? This is critical to my purchase."

It's not that I don't want to connect to the internet at this time, I just do not want to depend on it.
I only plan on being able to turn on/off X10 moduals and run a few macros with the iPhone smartenit app.
I may, in time slowly migate into Insteon products as the prices continually keep coming down.

Your previous reply:

Here's the official response from Smartenit:

Local connection is not supported on the P2, only supported on the G2 currently. 

It works by having the MobileApp send requests to the G2 through the local network (internet connectivity is not needed, but a local network is needed).

You and the previously quoted message from Al at smartenit both appear to be quite knowledgeable on this subject.
See my dilemma?

I plan to shift control of ~60 legacy X10 moduals spread out over 6 house codes.
Want to migrate away from my current AMX Axcess installation. It's wired buss is way too sensitive to EMF surges.
No plans at this time for voice command.
Title: Re: WM100
Post by: brobin on October 01, 2020, 12:34:03 PM
I have both the P2 and G2 installed.  I only use the G2 but, since I no longer have a second home for the P2, I plugged it in to use for playing around with new things.  I've never had an internet outage of more than an hour (Hurricane Irma excepted) so I haven't done any local control.  I pretty much rely on Alexa for 'manual' control albeit reliant on the internet.  Perhaps late tonight I can unplug the cable modem, try both and report what happens. 

Title: Re: WM100
Post by: AMXoldhack on October 01, 2020, 11:28:42 PM
looking forward to what you discover.
buying a home automation hub will be a quantum jump foreword for me.
currently, i have to sort through almost 5 thousands lines of c code to re wright my home 10 automation macros. :) Legacy is hard work to keep it going. :(
Title: Re: WM100
Post by: brobin on October 02, 2020, 01:44:43 AM
I did some testing as promised.  As expected, the P2 does not offer local connect.  The G2 can be accessed by selecting it's SSID and connecting directly.  A bit awkward though and limited range.  If we were to lose internet, as we did for 10 days after Irma hit a couple of years ago, I'd tether my phone's unlimited data plan to to my router to maintain a connection for everything in the house.  During the month after Irma hit, most carriers enabled expanded or unlimited data to all affected customers that didn't already have unlimited data.
Of course, that only works if you still have power.  We have a 48KW generator that ran continuously for the 9 days we had no power so the tethering worked but a bit slow.   

I know it's hard to trust an internet connection but unless you're in an underserved area it should be as reliable as as electricity or any other utility.
Title: Re: WM100
Post by: AMXoldhack on October 07, 2020, 08:28:14 PM
Brobin,
 :( Sorry for leaving my thread in this conversation unattended, something came up which requires immediate surgery.
I should be back here with my persistent  ;D Questions in a week or so-

Chris
Title: Re: WM100
Post by: brobin on October 07, 2020, 08:39:14 PM
Best wishes for a speedy recovery my friend!