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💬General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: mike1 on February 28, 2020, 02:36:49 AM

Title: Harmony P2 & Alexa
Post by: mike1 on February 28, 2020, 02:36:49 AM
Hi Tuicemen/Brobin

Just received and installed the P2 pretty simple  working nice. But Brobin since your using this setup. I'm having some issues with some of my x10 devices. One light turns on via the smartenit app and or alexa command but one will not turn off. One light doesnt come on at all. Also the dimming feature is that already built it or do you have to define it,? Again thank so much for the advice. Alexa recognized everything quickly and effortless!!!

Best
Mike
Title: Re: Harmony P2 & Alexa
Post by: Brian H on February 28, 2020, 06:09:25 AM
What X10 controller where you using before the P2?
From what I have read in some Insteon related forums. The 2412U PLM has a lower power line X10 voltage output than X10 interfaces. You now maybe running into power line signal issues.

On but not off and no control could be a power line issue. Though it also could be the way the P2 is doing things.
Brobin should have a better handle on a P2 than I do.
Title: Re: Harmony P2 & Alexa
Post by: mike1 on February 28, 2020, 10:22:56 AM
Hi Tuicemen I was using the cm15a. I moved all routines now to the p2. So yes I'm having issues controlling certain devices now, and dimming will ramp down but not up. I know Brobin has been using it so he might have some insight.  Thxs
Title: Re: Harmony P2 & Alexa
Post by: brobin on February 28, 2020, 12:16:37 PM
Glad to hear the initial setup was easy and went well.

I haven't had any control problems and wonder if those are signal issues. Let's see if it's an Alexa issue first. When you speak the Alexa commands does the device respond in the Dashboard or device list and the LED on the PLM flicker? If yes, then that eliminates Alexa as an issue.  Does the light respond when controlling from the app?  On (yes)? Off? Dim?  If 'yes' to on and 'no' to off or dim then it sounds like a signal issue.  Are these LED bulbs?  I've had LED bulbs turn on ok but not off because they create noise when on.  A hash choke at the switch or light can solve that or sometimes a different brand of bulb. See: http://jvde.us/x10/x10_cfl.pdf for more info. The chokes can be ordered at ebay.to/39yWLYC

If you're using an LED bulb can you replace it with a 40W or higher incandescent bulb for testing? What type of switch/module are you using?  The best way to test would be to plug an incandescent lamp into a lamp module at the same outlet as the 2412U PLM for testing. That would prove or disprove the noise issue. Do you have any signal bridges/repeaters like an XTB-IIR?

There's nothing special you have to set up for dimming (other than setting it up as an 'X10 Dimmer' when adding devices) so if it at least turns on then you've set it up correctly.

Not that it should matter for this issue but make sure you have the latest f/w update by tapping the arrow in the upper right corner of the Smartenit-Harmony P2 device icon and clicking 'Updates' and it'll tell you if you're up to date or there's a new one. The latest is 3.15.0-6.  You can also set up auto updates.
Title: Re: Harmony P2 & Alexa
Post by: mike1 on February 28, 2020, 03:59:09 PM
Hi Brobin

The x10 dimmers are the older leviton and Home pro.  Th ed lightbulbs are incandescent.  Only led I use or Cree which I've verified to work.  So the only thing that has changed is that when I used the cm15a it was on a different outlet.  Also the new interface is plugged into an a 3 outlet splitter can this cause an issue?  Now I can dim but then it wont ramp up.  Now I cant control these incandescent lights nor with the app or Alexa.  I'll try to check out the light confirmation when I get home. Might have to get a re po eater.


Thxs again for the detailed answer.  But major improvements over the pc route. Again thxs for the advice! G
Mike

Title: Re: Harmony P2 & Alexa
Post by: mike1 on February 28, 2020, 04:04:08 PM
Hi Brobin

Also these two lights worked fine with Alex10 and the cm15a.
Title: Re: Harmony P2 & Alexa
Post by: brobin on February 28, 2020, 05:50:01 PM
If the 3 outlet power strip (which is what I use too) is "protected" meaning it has surge protection and EMI filtering, that could attenuate the signal.  Try plugging the PLM into the same outlet that the CM15a used and see if there's a difference and also try a lamp module in the same outlet as the PLM to verify that the P2 is performing correctly. 
If it turns out to be a signal issue as I suspect it will, the XTB-IIR is far and away your best option to solve signal issues. 
Title: Re: Harmony P2 & Alexa
Post by: mike1 on February 28, 2020, 06:02:07 PM
Hi Brobin

No I wouldn't use a protective strip it's a cheap plastic 3 pulet connector being shared with my Alarm hub. I'm thinking I'm plugging in the other leg of the circuit so noise, distance issues. The piece you recommended xtb-ir is on TV hd pricey side.  Thoughts on the x10 powerline repeater plc01?  Also moving the interface to where I originally had it will be a problem. Since the p2 needs a network connection so it's new home is ideal. But I can move it for testing purposes.  Thxs again Mike
Title: Re: Harmony P2 & Alexa
Post by: brobin on February 28, 2020, 06:13:58 PM
The PLC01 is a repeater but not a "phase" coupler.  I've never used the PLC01 so I can't comment but it's cheap enough to try. An XPCP coupler would be helpful with the PLC01.  But let's see how your testing goes first.
Title: Re: Harmony P2 & Alexa
Post by: mike1 on February 28, 2020, 06:51:05 PM
Hi Brobin
I have a phase coupler in my breaker box. I'll try the repeater see how it goes.
Keep you posted.

Thxs
Mike

Title: Re: Harmony P2 & Alexa
Post by: Brian H on February 28, 2020, 07:20:52 PM
If you are going to try the PLC01.
It is on sale. On the X10 site.
https://www.x10.com/x10-pro/specialty-devices/couplers-repeaters/plc01.html

If you have not found Jeff's X10 Troubleshooting Tutorials yet.
http://jvde.us/x10_troubleshooting.htm
Title: Re: Harmony P2 & Alexa
Post by: brobin on February 28, 2020, 07:39:21 PM
No I wouldn't use a protective strip it's a cheap plastic 3 pulet connector being shared with my Alarm hub.

Is the Alarm hub powered by a wall wart? Try unplugging it and see if that makes a difference.  Wall warts can be noisy and even if it never caused a problem it could when sharing an outlet.
Title: Re: Harmony P2 & Alexa
Post by: mike1 on March 02, 2020, 11:44:39 AM
Hi Brobin

Happy to report that adding the Plc helped tremendously.   I can dim now and control lights tha that were having issue. So two of my lights one starting working no problem.  This morning wasn't reacting again. Then I have one outside furthest point outside that doesn't work.

Thxs again
Title: Re: Harmony P2 & Alexa
Post by: brobin on March 02, 2020, 02:01:29 PM
Glad to hear you've identified it as a signal issue and made progress.  You might try testing the PLC01 at different locations to see if you can find a spot that covers everywhere. The best spot might be closest to the electrical service panel or where the CM15a was plugged in.  I've had very good results using a Smarthome #4827 Boosterlinc in troublesome spots on a particular circuit. You can use multiple units as they don't cause ping ponging.  The Boosterlinc is no longer sold by Smarthome but can sometimes be found on ebay. 
Title: Re: Harmony P2 & Alexa
Post by: mike1 on March 02, 2020, 03:57:47 PM
Hi Brobin

What about adding another Plc.  Ok so the light that started working and stopped is because I installed a tplink repeater. As soon as I unplugged it that light started working.   So now what about a wifi repeater? Are they going to mess me up?  Ideas?  Thxs for your time. This is night and day though should have gone this route long time ago for x10. I hate windows10!!!
Title: Re: Harmony P2 & Alexa
Post by: brobin on March 02, 2020, 04:09:41 PM
You could try a filter on the TP Link repeater. I assume you mean WiFi Repeater - not HomePlug which also uses powerline carrier but at a different frequency.  I have a Netgear WiFi repeater that hasn't caused any issues.
Title: Re: Harmony P2 & Alexa
Post by: mike1 on March 03, 2020, 01:38:19 PM
Hi Brobin

Yes a wifi repeater I have a tplink hate it! And causing me issues. So netgear doesnt interfere? The issue with intermittent issue on my outdoor lights it is led bulbs. Wonder if that's the issue? They are like candelabra style which few companies make them. So which netgear extender are you using?  Thxs again
Title: Re: Harmony P2 & Alexa
Post by: brobin on March 03, 2020, 03:53:37 PM
I'm using an older Netgear WN1000RP extender to get a signal to my Orbit B-Hyve irrigation controller. There's a used one on Amazon right now for ten bucks.
LED bulbs could be your issue. You could test with an incandescent bulb. Some have reported better success with LEDs by using at least one incandescent in the circuit. But if the LEDs are noisy a hash choke would be a good solution.
Title: Re: Harmony P2 & Alexa
Post by: mike1 on March 03, 2020, 04:37:41 PM
Hi Brobin

I was thinking of the NETGEAR WiFi Range Extender EX6120? Also you mentioned a choke? Can you school me on this?

Thanks
Title: Re: Harmony P2 & Alexa
Post by: brobin on March 03, 2020, 04:50:41 PM
Hi Brobin

I was thinking of the NETGEAR WiFi Range Extender EX6120? Also you mentioned a choke? Can you school me on this?

Thanks

This article explains it best: http://jvde.us/x10/x10_cfl.pdf
The chokes (aka induction coils) can be purchased here: ebay.to/2VFDTTV

A choke is wired in series between the switched leg of the switch and the load (the wire that goes to the bulbs).  I needed one for an LED pool light.

The EX6120 looks like a good choice.  If your current router is older and due for an upgrade you might want to consider going to a mesh router to provide seamless coverage throughout your home.  I'm using a couple of ASUS AiMesh routers now and eliminated 3 access points with just the one extender needed for the sprinkler system.
Title: Re: Harmony P2 & Alexa
Post by: mike1 on March 04, 2020, 09:28:52 AM
Hi Brobin

Thanks for the tips. So here I am again the family room light than I got working mysteriously stopped again. Now the outdoor lamp post went on with the dusk program but remained on, had to manually turn if off. Man what gives? Cant figure this out.  Thxs
Title: Re: Harmony P2 & Alexa
Post by: brobin on March 04, 2020, 09:54:58 AM
Sounds like some load is coming on that is blocking/sucking signals.  One way to test is to turn off one breaker at a time and test to see what circuit has the offending device. It could be a TV, PC, printer, phone charger or LED bulb and then add a filter to that device.

Have you tried locating the PLC01 or the P2 at the same outlet as your old CM15A? 

 X10 signal integrity is a matter of "raising the bridge (signal strength) and/or lowering the water (noise/suckers)" which is why a good phase coupler and amplifier/repeater are keys to success along with a filter or two. 
Title: Re: Harmony P2 & Alexa
Post by: mike1 on March 04, 2020, 02:36:01 PM
Hi Brobin

I hear you, no I haven't relocated the Plc to where the old cm15 was since everything started worked after I installed the repeater.  I have pc shutdown, no printer in the house.

I guess process of elimination like you suggested.


Thxs
Mike
Title: Re: Harmony P2 & Alexa
Post by: brobin on March 04, 2020, 02:53:03 PM
I'd start by looking at everything that's plugged into the same circuit as the PLM.  I know it's inconvenient to test the P2/PLM at the CM15a location b/c you don't have an ethernet connection there but if you have a long electrical extension cord you could run it from the CM15a outlet to the P2 location for testing.
Title: Re: Harmony P2 & Alexa
Post by: mike1 on May 13, 2020, 11:37:43 AM
Hi Brobin

I hope your doing ok. Need your advice I'm lookin for 65w oar40 led light that will work with my x10 switches,  dimmable etc.

Appreciate your help.


Regards
Mike
Title: Re: Harmony P2 & Alexa
Post by: brobin on May 13, 2020, 06:17:58 PM
 It's hard to recommend a specific brand other than to say it should say "dimmable" on the package. The issue with 2 wire wall switches is that they need a bulb with a filament to complete the circuit.  X10 has a new wall switch module that they designed for dimmable LED bulbs, the XPDI3, that should do the trick.  Also, you may have seen that Jeff Volp recently posted that he has shunts available to adapt switches for LED control.  Also consider that your P2 can control ZigBee LED bulbs such as those from Sylvania and Ikea as long as they're in range of the P2 or have other ZigBee devices to extend the range.
Title: Re: Harmony P2 & Alexa
Post by: Brian H on May 14, 2020, 06:07:24 AM
The XPDI3 needs a Neutral power connection. So if you only have a two wire {Line Load} switch loop with no Neutral in the back of the electrical box. You could be out of luck.

Jeff's LED Shunt sounds like it maybe a good alternative.
Title: Re: Harmony P2 & Alexa
Post by: toasterking on May 14, 2020, 11:58:13 AM
The Leviton HCM06 and HCM10 series switches work with X10 and require only 2 wires (the neutral wire is optional).  They work fine with most dimmable LEDs I've tried -- a wider assortment than the X10 2-wire switches seem to -- but still not all.  They have a programmable option for minimum dim level, which the X10 switches don't, which is useful for LEDs.  They also have a more "natural" feeling paddle switch that distinguishes between top and bottom presses, handles resume dim more elegantly, and has an LED brightness display and night locator.  The only problem is that they are discontinued, so you'll have to look for them on eBay.

EDIT: Since not all dimmable LEDs are the same, you may need Jeff Volp's shunt (http://jvde.us/xtb/led-shunt.pdf) even if you use one of these Leviton switches.
Title: Re: Harmony P2 & Alexa
Post by: Moose on July 01, 2021, 05:07:42 PM
Sounds like some load is coming on that is blocking/sucking signals.  One way to test is to turn off one breaker at a time and test to see what circuit has the offending device. It could be a TV, PC, printer, phone charger or LED bulb and then add a filter to that device.

 X10 signal integrity is a matter of "raising the bridge (signal strength) and/or lowering the water (noise/suckers)" which is why a good phase coupler and amplifier/repeater are keys to success along with a filter or two.

I have read and reread this thread several times as I have been sorting out issues similar to Mike1's. I have been using the Harmony P2 exclusively while I try to eliminate the noise producers and suckers on my system. I decided to jump in with both feet and replaced my X-coupler/repeater with Jeff's XTB-IIR and added the XTB-ANR Active Noise Reducers. That has helped a lot. My wireless controllers worked now 100% of the time. But the commands through the P2 with the 2412U PLM were very intermittent. I tried moving the various filters that I had available to several possible noise producers, but without much luck.

I ordered a couple of XPF 20A Wired-In Noise Filters from X10 and did a little modification on them so I could plug them in where needed. See the photo for my creation. Note, that I ran a ground wire straight through because most of my UPS's are 3 wire plugs.
Title: Re: Harmony P2 & Alexa
Post by: brobin on July 01, 2021, 09:27:16 PM
Nice job on the plug & socket mod.  Try and locate the PLM close to the electrical panel.  I've only had one problem with X10 signals from the P2's PLM which is located about 40 feet from the panel.  That one problem was quickly solved when I unplugged the wall wart for a Tivo Roamio that was on the same circuit.  Replaced the wall wart and no more problems.  Check to see if you have any wall warts on that circuit and unplug them to eliminate or identify them as problems.  They are notorious for generating noise particularly as they age.  The Tivo one was 7 years old when it turned into a signal blocker.  Others have caused problems right out of the box. 

Just a thought, and if Jeff is reading this he could chime in or you could email him; perhaps you could use a two-prong adapter on the PLM and plug it directly into the Boost Port on the front of the XTB-IIR.  Unless Jeff recommends against that it should solve the problem. 
Title: Re: Harmony P2 & Alexa
Post by: JeffVolp on July 01, 2021, 09:50:16 PM
Just a thought, and if Jeff is reading this he could chime in or you could email him; perhaps you could use a two-prong adapter on the PLM and plug it directly into the Boost Port on the front of the XTB-IIR.  Unless Jeff recommends against that it should solve the problem.

Years ago there were reports that SmartHome controllers did not work well when plugged into the Boost input.  So  I don't recommend the Boost input for anything other than a standard X10 transmitter, such as a Mini or Maxi Controller or TM751 transceiver.  Just plug the PLM into a nearby outlet and use the XTB-IIR for both a passive coupler and a high power signal booster.

Jeff
Title: Re: Harmony P2 & Alexa
Post by: Moose on July 05, 2021, 07:52:10 AM
So, I moved the P2/PLM from the north side to the south side of the house, just above the electrical panel. My problem areas moved from the south to the north. Intermittent wireless commands from the palm pilot and poor response from light modules controlled by the P2/PLM. I tired moving my filters around and unplugging things, and then it hit me.   -:)  The south side is mostly the kitchen, and when last renovated I added some accent lighting consisting of LED modules and LED ropes. I had been so focused on wall warts.  :' I put one of my custom filters in series with the Led power plug, and now ALL my problems have gone.  ;D

Now, I just have to retrace my steps, and see which of the other filters are unnecessary.
Title: Re: Harmony P2 & Alexa
Post by: brobin on July 05, 2021, 10:37:43 AM
Glad you found the culprit!