X10 Community Forum
🖥️ActiveHome Pro => ActiveHome Pro General => Topic started by: dick collier on April 10, 2005, 01:47:52 AM
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Okay folks, I'm gunna start a log here to
give you an idea of what has happened, what
may be necessary and hopefully you can avoid.
March 11, 2005. Activehome and my cm11a got
boring, wanted more, ordered AHP (Active
Home Pro) with the cm15a.
March 13, 2005, received order confirmation
email with download and activation
instructions.
March 17, 2005 received cm15a. Configured
hardware and software and then smiled.
MARCH.... was annoyed that new package was
unreliable. Tried many upgrades,
workarounds, searched the web for help,
found none.
April 7, 2005. After being ignored by
email, sat on the phone for tech support.
20 minute hold but finally talked to a
tech. Tech finally gave me an RMA for the
cm15a. I mailed it back on April 8, 2005.
April 9, 2005. I turn 52 today, damn I'm
old.
I will update this thread with my progress.
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Dick: Are you returning the CM15A for a
refund, or just getting a replacement? What
was not working?
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Macros didn't work consistantly. They would
trigger for an hour or two and then no
longer respond. I could repeat this
sequence by rebooting, pulling the cm15a out
of the wall, pulling the batteries out of
the cm15a... basicly a hard boot of
everthing to give me 2 to 4 more hours of
life.
I look forward to your fix/software
upgrade. Your product has in the past been
viable, reliable and cost effective.
Viable and reliable relationships are a good
thing...
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Just received email from x10 notifying me of
the shipment of my new cm15a. It was sent
within the last 2 hours, it is now 9pm CDT,
April 15. I await it's arrival with
anticipation.
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April 18th, received my new cm15a via
FedEx. I am playing with it. My daughter
and I framed a deck this weekend so I am
playing with things slowly and with some
pain.
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Dick,
Your posts are not going unnoticed.
I too had a flakey unit but received a
diagnostic unit about 7 Mar. So far teh unit
has performed "ok". I have found it to be
"somewhat" reliable but have trouble with the
unit if 2 motion detector signals are
received a few seconds apart. Things go
downhill from there. I'll keep an eye out
for your posts. p.s. I built a deck last
year.. I know the pain..smile
Regards,
StgeveRF
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Dick,
I too appreciate your posts. After a fair
amount of effort... actually too much
effort my system is mostly stable. Like
SteveRF, I still get some flakiness, which
I am now sure is not my programming, but
problems in the hardware.
I have a favor. Would you post the version
number (round sticker on back of CM-15A) of
your “new” unit? My unit’s is 05C10.
Since I’m past the 30-day return period, I
would rather wait until X10 releases a
different version, before going to the
expense of simply trading one almost fixed
unit for another identical one.
Thanks and good luck with the deck, I still
have fond memories of building a deck with
my children.
John
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John,
My diag unit is 04J44.
I think I may have an "early" model.
Maybe I should have waited a bit longer
before complaining. After updating to the new
3.186, my unit is still "somewhat unreliable"
when signals from 2 motion sensors are
detected a few seconds apart. I have a MS in
the master bedroom at the doorway and one in
the master bathroom. Walking past one to the
bathroom takes about 3 seconds. That one
sensor in the bedroom made my bathroom
unreliable. It works but not right when you
walk in.. sometimes I have to wait until the
sensor sees me a second time. That is not
acceptable... entering a dark bathroom.. or a
dark bedroom.. o well, I really do believe
that their only real solution now is a
hardware upgrade to the CM15A.
Regards,
SteveRF
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Steve RF: If both sensors are on the same
house code try changig one of them and see
if the problem persists.
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SteveRF,
I have a similar setup including running
3.186, with similar performance issues. In
my system when the bedroom MS detects
motion a series of lights leading to a
bathroom about 20 feet away are turned on.
I have another MS on route to the
bathroom. If that sensor triggers then the
lights stay on until the first sensor is
retriggered and an OFF is sent. If the
second MS doesn’t trigger before the first
MS sends an OFF then the lights go out. I
estimate that the time between sensors is
around 6 – 10 seconds.
Sometimes the first motion sensor takes a
long time to respond to motion… a very long
time. More recently, the second sensor is
not reliably being detected, so the lights
are going out when they shouldn’t. I had
to install a third sensor in the bathroom,
on the same house/unit code as the second,
to make sure that motion is detected on
route to the bathroom. However,
performance varies greatly. Sometime the
sensors works quickly, more often they work
slowly or not at all.
I have replaced the sensors, tried various
house and unit code combinations and
verified my code. So, I’m sure that the
problem isn’t a defective MS or poor
logic. It’s in the design somewhere and it
doesn’t appear that waiting for a later
version would have made much difference.
Hopefully, a hardware upgrade is in the
offing.
Well I’ll be traveling for a while so, I’ll
have spare time to do something other than
fiddle with AHP.
John
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JohnN, Thanks for the insight !
HelpFul Hints, Good idea, however, I was
trying to keep all motion sensors on the
same code. Well, 4 of them, the other is
outside and on a different housecode now.
I'll change the offending (pain in the rear
MS) tomorrow and see if it helps any. It
just appears that motion sensor signals
within 2 -4 seconds from each other cannot
be resolved quick enough with teh current
model of teh CM15A. I'll try your idea and
see how it goes tomorrow. Many THANKS !
SteveRF
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JohnN:
Number on the back of the cm15a is... drum
roll please... 05c10. The power plug is
not polorized.
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It's been 2 weeks and things are going
well. Still have some issues with macros
but I am taking my time to diagnose each one
before I comment. RF is much more
reliable. This house is 70' long, 2
stories. CM15a is on top floor, dead center
of house and all RF transmitters and
receivers are functioning well. Running 95%
success rate, the 5% miss I am currently
blaming on the cheap motion sensors.
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Dick and SteveRF,
I'm back from travels, rested and ready
to “go at it again”.
It looks like Dick and I have exactly the
same unit. I like the concept of AHP and,
I suspect, like both of you, would like to
find ways to help it meet it’s potential.
It’s certainly is not there right now. X10
seems to be trying to work the issues, and
I’m truly impressed with X10Pro’s patience
and willingness to work with all kinds of
folks.
Dick, now that you have your system “up and
running” I would be interested in hearing
if, you are experiencing the “slow
responding” motion sensor problems that
SeveRF identified I would also like to
know if either of you have noticed any
instances of inconsistent operation; such
as modules not operating properly. While
my system is “mostly” reliable I have
notice that occasionally simple macros that
control several (2-7) modules and timers
malfunction so that some modules either
don’t respond or respond differently than
programmed in the macro.
I know that these issues could be power
line noise, but, my power seems to be clean
and I am able to operate modules on either
phase without using a coupler. Besides
this issue appears to be more of an
occasional random malfunction, rather than
a consistent problem. Also, none of my
neighbors have any X10 devices; so, I don’t
think my modules are responding to commands
from another system.
I have enjoyed this thread and look forward
to reading more about Dick’s adventure.
John
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Motion sensor response is approximately 2
seconds from when I see the LED flash. This
is the same response time I had with the
cm11.
My diagnostics window is now dropping
because we have a couple new houses being
built up here close by and I already see the
line noise on the TV from their generators.
I won't grouse to X10 because I have dirty
power.
I am feeling incouraged that my macro that:
30 minutes before sunset turns on 2 circuits
at 100% bright (leviton high end switches),
one circuit at 60% bright, wait 30 minutes
and turn on outside coach lights at 100% (1
circuit)... is so far reliable. Date of
last hard reboot is April 22 (not because of
AHP).
Odd note though. When I leave AHP running
and minimized, my pc clock loses approx. 1.5
hours per day. Windows 98SE on an AMD k6,
320M RAM. Yes, I know, old... but it works.
By the way, last weekend we planked the deck
and had celebatory beers afterward on it in
a feable attempt to rehydrate ourselves.
That didn't work but hanging out with your
daughter is still priceless.
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Well, we tried, but things still suck.
Macros are intermittent after a couple of
hours. RF is less than 90%. I remain in
the same situation as right after my
original purchase of AHP and cm15a in early
March.
I have done my best but at this point I
consider this product unacceptable.
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Dick,
Sorry to hear that you are having
problems. My setup has become remarkably
stable over the last couple of weeks.
Timers are triggered on time and macros
operate as programmed. My biggest
complaint is that the RF range is very
limited. I don’t keep my interface
connected to my PC for more than an hour,
so I haven’t experienced any issues with
the PC clock. However, I am running XP
I have experienced some of the same issues
that you are having with unreliable
operation in the past and noticed that
sometimes the CM15A doesn’t load properly.
I don’t know if it’s a software issue, an
interface issue, a USB driver issue or a
hardware issue. But, before you return it
you might want to try loading your program
several times.
My CM15A has been working well for several
weeks now. Unfortunately, I really don’t
know why… I’m just enjoying it. When it
works it’s really pretty neat. When it
doesn’t, it’s possessed by some evil
spirits and totally frustrating.
Best wishes.
JohnN
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Okay JohnN, I just cleared the CM15A memory,
downloaded my macros and stuff 5 times,
unplugged the USB cord and will now wait and
see.
Give me three days to compile my results. I
will report back.
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No joy here. Macros will not fire on
events. I can go to my PC and click a macro
activation, be it RF, event or timed, and it
works but left to it's own devices, nada.
I have spent too much energy here. I am
cutting bait.
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Yet another former AHP user in the
making. ;)
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This is too much pain for what I was
expecting. I have retrofitted my cm11a, all
of the rf modules, the old activehome
software and will now look for something
more advanced from someone other than x10.
X10 support has been lacking in the extreme,
phone call waits have been excessive, tech
support has been lacking to the point of
rote responses, config and error log files
have been submitted without response.
I'm blowing this off as a Gensui Knife...
marketing without substance is unethical. I
will not waste my time with unethical people.
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Dick,
Sorry to hear your results. I certainly
understand your decision and am concerned
that I might end up on the same path. I
did have one macro that refused to respond
and posted a request for X10pro to contact
me so that I could send him the file. My
thought was that if he could duplicate the
condition, it might help them to figure out
what’s going on. As you and others have
indicated, the silence from X10 tech
support is deafening.
Unfortunately, at this point my system is
totally shut down. But, not due to X10.
On Sunday morning every device in my system
stopped working. The activity monitor on
the CM-15A shows constant PLC receive
activity that it interprets as alternately
a B7 on then B7 off command. Occasionally,
if I use my Palmpal I can see one of the
commands come through. But, more often
than not the CM-15a is being swamped by the
power line noise. I tried the TM751
without the CM-15a with the same results.
Nothing is working. I’ve contacted the
local power company, but like X10 tech
support... I’m not holding my breath. I
started researching noise-blocking devices
to put on my main power lines, in an effort
to try an isolate my home from the noise on
the power lines.
For now my power line noise problem has
overtaken my experimenting with the CM-
15a. If I can’t get this fixed, I’ll be
returning everything to X10 or putting them
up on e-bay!!
I’ve enjoyed this thread. Just sorry that
it didn’t have a happy ending.
Best wishes,
JohnN
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I just now ordered the 1132cu interface with
the full function software that includes
conditional macros. They claim a video
interface that I will persue later. Right
now I just want x10 commands to be reliable.
I will continue this thread with updates,
observations and experiences with this new
product. There will be no bias. I am an
equal opportunity critic.
So here it goes... May 12th, 2005, ordered
an 1132CU with Smarthome Manager Enhanced
software.
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Hi Dick,
I made the switch about a month ago to the
1132 and things work the way they should.
Just be aware that the 1132 does not have
any RF functions built in, so if you have
any Palmpads or Motion sensors you will
need a transciever.. If the range of your
CM15A meets your needs you can use this as
your transciever. If not, there are several
other possibilities.
T.
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Thanks for the info Tcassio. I do indeed
have a few motion sensors (6) and the
remotes for x10 cameras and x10 universal
remotes. My rf range on the cm15a seems
pretty reliable. I have gone out of my way
and at additional expense to only buy
Leviton high end switches and x10 controlled
outlets so I don't have a bunch of "dongles"
hanging out of every outlet in my house.
Removing the 4 rf x10 receivers and
replacing them with just one cm15a to be
used as a dedicated whole house rf receiver
will let me turn this serving of lemons (AHP
package) into lemonaide. I will consider
$100 (really $50 `cause I got 3 x10
controlled outlets for free with the macro
package purchase) for a single whole house
rf tranceiver as a reasonable deal.
So in summary, I am not demanding refunds
from x10, I am disappointed that their
product is not ready for prime time, I will
take an alternative path and see where that
leads, I will incorporate my x10 product
purchases where the technology works.
Always consider yourself imortal and smarter
than everyone else because the alternatives
are really depressing.
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I feel your pain JohnN. With new
construction and a/c generators in close
proximity here, the testing can be dubious
due to line noise. As you can see by the
time of my postings, I am testing and
reporting after the construction crews go
home.
So, do you have or can you identify a window
when your power is clean?
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Thanks, this is so very frustrating.
No I've check at all times including in the
middle of the night. There just isn't any
time that the noise goes away or even
dimishes in intensity. I did get the power
company to respond. They checked the
transformer and said it was ok.
There is no construction going on and our
neighborhood is well established, so, very
few people move in or out. It's hard for
me to imagine what might be causing this
kind of noise 24 hrs a day.
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John N: What did you change when all this
noise started? Did you add ANY THING? is
anything running all the time, that was not
running before? Can you determine if the
noise is coming from outside or inside your
house?
Sometimes the best way to determine where
the noise is originating from is to turn
off EACH breaker and check for the noise.
Maybe your computer power supply/other
device is getting ready to give up the
ghost.
-
A defective, battery low, Motion Sensor
perhaps?
-
If you have an X10 line filter, you could
always plug the CM15A INTO the filter, and
see if you're still getting the bizzare
on/off sequence. If you are, then it's
probably an RF transmission causing the
problems.
Sometimes noise can come from multiple
sources; I usually turn off as many breakers
as I can, and then turn them back on
one-by-one, and check for interference.
(Believe it or not, I actually retired
my Smarthome 1123CU in favor of the CM15A.
However, the 1123CU is really handy for
troubleshooting, because of the LED on
the side of the unit. If there is noise on
the line, the led will flash erratically.
If there is ALOT of noise, the LED will
only light DIMLY. Comes in handy.)
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Tigger, Martin and Donald,
Thanks for the suggestions. The batteries
are new, I’ve shut down the motion sensors
and the activity monitor is indicating a
PLC command rather than an RF command. I
did shut down every circuit in my home, one
at a time, without improvement.
Tigger, I was thinking along the same
lines. I purchased some line filters and
have decided my next move would be to set
up a test fixture with the power line
filters isolating the CM-15a/TM751 and a
couple of modules on a power strip (without
internal noise filters). This way the
power line filter would act in reverse…
that is isolating my test system from the
power line. If I can get either the CM-15a
or TM751 to control the modules on the
isolated power strip then that should prove
that the problem is on the power line and
not RF.
All, I started another thread on
the “Software Problem Reports” forum to
initially discuss what I believe is a
software problem. That thread has morphed
into a discussion of this problem. Rather
than taking up two threads with a single
problem, I would like to suggest we
transition discussion of my power line
problem to the “X10PRO I need help or an
exorcism” thread that way we can return
Dick’s thread back to his original purpose.
This is really a strange and tough problem
and I truly appreciate all of your thoughts
and suggestions.
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1132cu arrived via FedEx this morning.
Following suit with the activities of AHP, it
was installed immediatetly and programming
commenced.
It has only been 4 hours since my last
download to the 1132 but so far things are
working. I did have to do a hard reset on
bothe the 1132 and my pc halfway through my
programming. The download just hung. I will
watch for that in the future.
I have redeployed my cm15a as a whole house
RF transceiver, center of the house, lower
floor, max distance of 40' in this 70' long
house. Antenna is vertical, no more than 2
walls and 1 floor between us (rf users) and
the cm15a. It appears reliable so far. By
the way, a whole house rf tranceiver from
SmartHome (4831k) retails for $109.99 so I am
now thanking x10 for providing me an
equivalent for only $100.
There was almost no transition time from AHP
to Smarthome. The programs are almost
identical. Me thinks either the same
programmer hacked this code out for both
companies or both companies outsourced the
requirements to Tata in India and they sold
the same code twice. I mean even down to the
help functions offering you to buy the module
you need online.
I will continue fine tuning and monitoring
and logging for the next three days and then
report back. The forth day I'm going to
Galveston for a week so don't expect much
until my return.
-
3 days into it and the combo of my 1132cup
with Smarthome Manager Plus and my cm15a as a
dedicated whole house RF tranceiver is
working reliably. I will need to purchase
another dedicated device if I want to
incorporate video capture. The 1132cup
package was $100, identical to the cm15a
package with macros.
Downside of the Smarthome manager is it is
Switchlinc centric right now. Device
selection is either Switchlinc or generic.
All of my switches are Leviton so I'm looking
for a compatible switchlinc device, waiting
for Smarthome to write the Leviton devices or
using generic.
I'm starting to look at this whole thing like
my audio system. If I want convenience and a
single box I go cm15a or a console audio
system. If I want custom functionality,
flexibility and better response I go x10
component, RF component, video component or a
diescrete component audio system. I
understand the cost difference and I also
understand the benefits. Ya get what ya pay for.
Side bennie to the discrete non proprietary
component approach... I am now considering
flipping the bill for software like Homeseer
and a whole house microphone component and
start playing with voice control of this
homestead.
See y'all in a week. This guy is smiling
with the final results as I go to hang out on
the beaches of Galveston.
-
Smarthome Manager was a disappointment. Tech
supports responds with "generic or SwitchLinc
only" and no plans for expansion or custom
add-ons. So much for my investment in Leviton.
So I bit the bullet and bought HomeSeer. It
took 140 bucks and a couple weeks to get used
to it but with the 1132cup for x10 and the
cm15a for RF the house is now running
predicably and reliably.
The voice interface with Homeseer is starting
to spook the wife but I think she will get
used to it as I ever so slowly introduce it
into the house.
So here's my bottom line. Excluding the
existing x10 devices throughout the house,
this has cost me:
$100 for Smarthome Pro with macros (-$50 for
the modules that I got for free with the
macro package).
$100 for the 1132cup package with Smarthome
Manager which was a disappointment.
$140 for Homeseer, which has incorporated
both the CM15A and the 1132CUP to work as a
reliable home controller.
Okay, I spent net $290 to upgrade... it
works... it works well. I am not annoyed by
any of the companies I have done business
with, ya just gotta take the time to make it
all work together.
Oh, almost forgot... my daughter came over
this weekend to help me put up the railing on
the new deck. It looks really good. Next
step it the purgula and then we are done.
-
Smarthome Manager was a disappointment. Tech
supports responds with "generic or SwitchLinc
only" and no plans for expansion or custom
add-ons. So much for my investment in Leviton.
So I bit the bullet and bought HomeSeer. It
took 140 bucks and a couple weeks to get used
to it but with the 1132cup for x10 and the
cm15a for RF the house is now running
predicably and reliably.
The voice interface with Homeseer is starting
to spook the wife but I think she will get
used to it as I ever so slowly introduce it
into the house.
So here's my bottom line. Excluding the
existing x10 devices throughout the house,
this has cost me:
$100 for Smarthome Pro with macros (-$50 for
the modules that I got for free with the
macro package).
$100 for the 1132cup package with Smarthome
Manager which was a disappointment.
$140 for Homeseer, which has incorporated
both the CM15A and the 1132CUP to work as a
reliable home controller.
Okay, I spent net $290 to upgrade... it
works... it works well. I am not annoyed by
any of the companies I have done business
with, ya just gotta take the time to make it
all work together.
Oh, almost forgot... my daughter came over
this weekend to help me put up the railing on
the new deck. It looks really good. Next
step it the purgula and then we are done.
-
Dick,
Glad to hear that things are finally
working for you. I finally got my power
line noise problem solved and my system is
up and running using only AHP. While my
system is working, it does occasionally
stop responding and the AHP S/W is still
quirky. So, getting unbiased experience
with competitive products is most helpful
and appreciated. For now my system is
marginally acceptable, so, I'll be sticking
with AHP.
I have one question. Knowing what you do
now, what would you have done differently?
Pergola…. Sounds like quite a deck. Made
even more special because you built it with
your daughter
-
Dick -
Does Homeseer download fully to the 1132 and
work with PC turned off?
-
Arf:
No download with Homeseers and the cm15a.
You have to at least leave it active,
minimized and connected to the cm15a. Tech
support says the download is coming soon. In
my circumstance this is not an issue. I come
from the old school of thought that a
computer will die faster if you turn it on
and off (thermal shock) rather than leaving
in on all the time. Beside that, this is an
old windows 98se system that is used for
little more than a web browser and Homeseer,
it handles both just fine. After a few years
of home automation experience I am leaning
toward a dedicated pc for it, please read on
to hear my inclination for doing so.
John:
I would not change a thing! x10 gave me a
whole house RF tranceiver for $50 which after
retrospective shopping, nobody could beat
that deal. Smarthome gave me a reliable USB
interface to x10 protocol with the 1132cup
which relieved me from having to share my
free serial port between my cm11 and my
digital camera. Smarthome Manager and AHP
with macros showed me the flexibility I
desired with conditional if/then/else
programming statements which led me to
Homeseer which is pretty agnostic to
hardware, offers the conditional programming,
includes voice interaction, and is just kind
of a hoot to play with.
Bottom line is I am smiling. As someone much
smarter than myself once said, "it's not the
destination but the journey which is
important". I concur, this has been a
worthwhile journey and the destination is not
looking all that bad either.
"When you get to the fork in the road, take
it". Homeseer and other software have voice
interaction included. I will soon be
aquiring a multiroom microphone/speaker
system to exploit this new facit of home
control. Speach recognition sessions are
currently taking place with headsets to
prepare for this. (I'm still getting "the
look" from my wife over this). The voice
interaction is rather cpu intensive, if I'm
running another program and my `puter want's
to speak, it will studder if I am busy doing
something else. What the heck, a home
controlling pc doesn't seem too much of an issue.
-
correction to my last post. Active,
minimized and connected to the 1132... not
the cm15a. sorry about that.