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🖥️ActiveHome Pro => ActiveHome Pro General => Topic started by: x10 newbie on April 27, 2005, 04:06:55 PM

Title: activehome pro vs smarthome, do I have this right?
Post by: x10 newbie on April 27, 2005, 04:06:55 PM
After reading all the topics, Let me see If
I have this straight,

First spend $50 to buy a cm15a and the
software for the ultimate x10 deal. After
installing, you find out the RF distance on
the CM15a is not enough to make the motion
sensors work. Solution, spend $80 on a
V572ab.

Next, The sofware that comes with the cm15a
is not exactly what you need to make things
work. You really need Smart Macros.
Solution, Spend $50 to upgrade the software.

Then, after 30 day Plus one of useage, you
find your cm15a clock does not keep time. In
addition, your unit begins to forget things.
Solution, Spend $100 to buy the smarthome
1132cup which is more reliable. But hey,
since you have the V572ab you don't need
additional equipment. Right?

So you wind up with the smarthome device
that works, a RF reciever that works, a
piece of useless hardware and software at a
cost of $100, and about a hundred hours of
wasted time trying to make it work.

Got to love this X10 Stuff!!
Title: Re: activehome pro vs smarthome, do I have this right?
Post by: arf1410 on April 27, 2005, 04:18:44 PM
good summary!
Title: Re: activehome pro vs smarthome, do I have this right?
Post by: martin on April 27, 2005, 04:34:47 PM
In all fairness, with the Smart Macros
plugin, you also get a $50.00 gift
certificate for X10 stuff.
Title: Re: activehome pro vs smarthome, do I have this right?
Post by: jake on April 28, 2005, 12:53:09 PM
Yes just what i've been thinking.

My only question is , what, if anything can
ActiveHome Pro do (providing it actually
worked as its supposed to) that the 1132CUP
can't or vice-versa.

Apart from AHP's great looks obviously is
there anything important that one has over
the other? Is there a comparison out there
somewhere?

Just want to know before i finally give up
the wait to have AHP working and plump for
Smarthome's option.
Title: Re: activehome pro vs smarthome, do I have this right?
Post by: X10 Pro on April 28, 2005, 02:22:50 PM
I don't think that X10 Newbie's description
is really the current state of AHP. You might
want to purchase Smart Macros to do
everything you want to do (it's not a
requirement, certainly), but the RF range
should be the same as other X10 transceivers,
and the clock is stable.

I know that there are users here who disagree
with me, but the only real reference is how
it works for you.

In any case, ActiveHome Pro and the CM15A can
do a number of things that the Smarthome/WGL
combination can't do. For one, the CM15A
receives and transmits the complete X10 RF
command set. This means you can create macros
and timers for RF-based modules, use the PC
to respond to RF input, and send RF commands
for X10 cameras like the Vanguard and Ninja
Pan/Tilt from the computer. The CM15A can be
used as a receiver for X10 RF remotes like
the MP3 Anywhere and Lola remotes, which
means you have one piece of hardware to use
with AHP, with X10's media software, and with
third-part products that work with X10 remotes.

ActiveHome Pro with the CM15A is also
integrates video features using X10's cameras
and USB video capture. Not everyone has video
in their automation system, but if you want
to use it, with ActiveHome Pro you can.
Saving and recording video in conjunction
with lighting control is a pretty powerful
addition to your home.

We'll be extending the video and automation
capabilities of ActiveHome Pro soon with an
Internet plug-in that will allow you to
control and share your ActiveHome Pro set-up
without running a Web server on your own. The
Internet features will also incorporate
e-mail notifications, FTP, and much more.

Beyond that, we'll be expanding ActiveHome
Pro in ways that I don't think other products
will touch. We've got cell phone interaction
and a number of other things in the works,
and ActiveHome Pro will just keep getting better.
Title: Re: activehome pro vs smarthome, do I have this right?
Post by: SteveRF on April 28, 2005, 02:28:36 PM
Now that sounds like an exciting future !
I am happy with the way my CM15A works and
will be looking forward to upgrades and
add-on's.   Bravo !
Regards,
SteveRF
Title: Re: activehome pro vs smarthome, do I have this right?
Post by: raym on April 28, 2005, 02:46:33 PM
X10 Pro:

As long you all keep a set of 'open eyes' I
will agree 100%.

There are, curently, several popular third
party software interfaces that do not
support the CM15A. One flat out states that
the CM15A does not support 'preset dim
codes' so they cannot support it.

I am hoping that your statement of "we'll be
expanding ActiveHome Pro in ways that I
don't think other products will touch", will
include support for the popular two way
modules that use the 'preset dim' as a
communications.

Such as my TempLinc.

Thanks,

Ken

Title: Re: activehome pro vs smarthome, do I have this right?
Post by: X10 Pro on April 28, 2005, 03:06:32 PM
Ken: Among other things, we're currently
working on implementing the ability to send
Preset Dim commands in macros. I know you
want to receive and respond to Preset Dim;
that's on the list for later.

Since none of our products and very few other
companies use Preset Dim, implementing that
wasn't real high on our list early one. We're
getting to the point where we can work on
requests like yours now. We're also going to
put in the the ability to send just address
commands, and user-defined extended code
commands. All three of these will help users
like you work with modules that X10 doesn't make.
Title: Re: activehome pro vs smarthome, do I have this right?
Post by: arf1410 on April 28, 2005, 05:07:39 PM
Though I have just sent my 2 CM15As back for
a full refund, Preset Dims and ability to
send address only commands, on top of
getting the CM15A to work reliability for a
high % of users will definitely make my
seriously consider re-purchasing the unit.
Title: Re: activehome pro vs smarthome, do I have this right?
Post by: roger1818 on April 28, 2005, 05:34:41 PM
Ken:  I am curious which third party
software interface developer says that the
CM15A does not support 'preset dim codes?’
This is not true!  It is true that the AHP
S/W does not currently support ‘preset dim’
(though it does support ‘Extended Dim’) but
the CM15A DOES support it (certainly the
SDK does).  If you are developing third
party S/W, who cares what AHP supports, it
is what the CM15A supports that counts.
Title: Re: activehome pro vs smarthome, do I have this right?
Post by: raym on April 28, 2005, 07:07:40 PM
from
http://www.homeseer.com/support/cm15a.htm

Quote **
HomeSeer software is the most flexible and
powerful home automation software available
because we work very hard to support new
technologies and new devices as they enter
the market.  However, we can only support
new devices from manufacturers that provide
complete SDK (software development kit)
information.

At this time, the SDK for the CM15a X-10
computer interface only provides programming
instructions for three (3) X-10 commands
(ON / OFF / DIM).  Other equally important
commands (like PRE-SET DIM) are not included
in the SDK and these commands are essential
for universal control of many devices
through HomeSeer.  As such, we are unable to
provide support for the CM15a at this time.
End Quote **
Title: Re: activehome pro vs smarthome, do I have this right?
Post by: roger1818 on April 28, 2005, 11:52:57 PM
Ken:  Thanks that is interesting.
Originally the SDK didn't support "preset
dim" though it did support "extended dim"
(or any other extended command).  The
latest version of the SDK supports all
commands (though the documentation hasn't
been updated).
Title: Re: activehome pro vs smarthome, do I have this right?
Post by: looker on May 03, 2005, 08:47:06 PM
I just got my Active Home unit and I find
that it does not support PresetDim, but I see
that someone says it may be added in the future.

I have 30 days to return the unit, will it be
available within my 30 days?

Without PresetDim, the ActiveHome is useless
to me.  I have a controller from Smarthome
now that does preset dim, that I wanted to
replace since it's internal clock is slow,
but without presetdim, no can do.

Can anyone at x10 make a commitment on preset
dim within the next 30 days?
Title: Re: activehome pro vs smarthome, do I have this right?
Post by: X10 Pro on May 03, 2005, 08:49:03 PM
George Kerber: I'm fairly certain that you
will be able to send PresetDim commands from
AHP within the next 30 days. I can't say that
you'll be able to receive and process them in
that time, unless you use the SDK to do so.
Title: Re: activehome pro vs smarthome, do I have this right?
Post by: looker on May 03, 2005, 09:04:04 PM
Thanks for the reply.  I really only need to
be able to send preset dim commands from a
macro which is run from a timer, like for my
outside lights.

Another concern I have is memory.  I have
about 30 modules, so I need memory for the
modules, macros and timers.  I don't want to
program them all in until I know if preset
dim will be  done.

I guess I can wait 25 days for preset dim
before I'll have to return the unit within my
30 return window.

Good luck and hopefully this will all work out.
Title: Re: activehome pro vs smarthome, do I have this right?
Post by: bud on October 13, 2005, 04:44:37 PM
I have a bunch of Leviton wall dimmers that
take a preset dim command.  My existing CM11
will send these but the only way I can do
this with the CM15 is to class them as the 2
way LM14s.

The current software has a module to send
preset dim commands, does anyone know the
values to put in the Command and Data boxes?
Bud
Title: Re: activehome pro vs smarthome, do I have this right?
Post by: Brian H on October 13, 2005, 07:08:46 PM
Note: The 1132CU and 1132CUP are
discontinued as of last Saturday if the
messages I have seen are correct.
Title: Re: activehome pro vs smarthome, do I have this right?
Post by: roger1818 on October 13, 2005, 08:59:54 PM
Brian:  You are right.  It looks like they
have been replaced by the 1411CU INSTEON
PowerLinc USB.  Unfortuenately it looks
like the mControl Home software will not
work on XP Home but instead requires XP
Media Centre Edition 2005, XP Pro or
Windows 2000.  If this is true, this is a
major limitation.
Title: Re: activehome pro vs smarthome, do I have this right?
Post by: arf1410 on October 13, 2005, 09:11:48 PM
what's also interesting is that smarthome
has not replaced the 1132U with another
comparibly priced X10 controller (the x10-
insteon one is $200).  I think they realize
that the X10 protocol is dieing - it's just
not compatible with all the modern
electronics in todays home
Title: Re: activehome pro vs smarthome, do I have this right?
Post by: JP on October 13, 2005, 09:56:49 PM
Hey folks, wake up, the CM15a is not
reliable -------  that's all .......THE END
Title: Re: activehome pro vs smarthome, do I have this right?
Post by: stlscott on October 14, 2005, 02:24:51 AM
I noticed your comment about the x10
protocal dieing.  This surprised me. What
is the alternatives that I should consider
as a replacement?  Thanks
Title: Re: activehome pro vs smarthome, do I have this right?
Post by: Brian H on October 14, 2005, 04:43:36 AM
Roger H. Yes XP Pro and that requires
Netframe 1.1 or above added to XP Pro or
Media Center 2005. I don't know if the CD of
software has Netframe on it but it is very
big and even with broad band took me awhile
to download.
Title: Re: activehome pro vs smarthome, do I have this right?
Post by: Brian H on October 14, 2005, 07:01:48 AM
Update. Went to the MControl web site. XP
Home is now listed as ok as is XP Pro; 2000
and media center 2005. Not 100% on Netframe
if using XP.
Title: Re: activehome pro vs smarthome, do I have this right?
Post by: arf1410 on October 14, 2005, 10:28:21 AM
stlscott - I take it you are new to X10 and
this forum?  I don't think anyone would
argue with my comment about X10 dieing.
The original protocol (and patents) where
from the early 1970s (if not 1960s), and a
read thru this forum will show that
everything from these fancy washing
machines, to LED nightlights, to plasma
TVs, to UPS powersupplies, to flourescent
bulbs will screw up the X10 signal, and it
probably isn't practical (or even possible)
to filter all these devices.  It appears
that z-wave and Insteon are the two leading
technologies to replace X10, though its too
early to tell if either one will really
catch on, which is why I would be hesitant
to invest much $$ in either one yet...
Title: Re: activehome pro vs smarthome, do I have this right?
Post by: jeh on October 14, 2005, 09:39:14 PM
One of X10's responses says the CM15A's "RF
range
should be the same as other X10
transceivers."  However I have read many
postings on this forum and others that would
contradict this claim.  Apparently in the
real world, the RF Rx range of many CM15As is
not as good as people are used to.
Title: Re: activehome pro vs smarthome, do I have this right?
Post by: Brian H on October 15, 2005, 06:23:53 AM
Power Companies are now toying with
broadband on the power lines. I wonder what
this may do to all line control signals. X10
Insteon or any of the others.
Title: Re: activehome pro vs smarthome, do I have this right?
Post by: arf1410 on October 15, 2005, 11:25:00 AM
Brian - I think Insteon is RF, not
powerline control ...
Title: Re: activehome pro vs smarthome, do I have this right?
Post by: raym on October 15, 2005, 01:16:19 PM
Hi all,

I have been using X10 products for about ten
years now. I have been using their cameras
and video capture software/devices for about
six years. I own the AHP software with all
of the available 'plug in modules'.

I just placed an order for some of
the 'Insteon' devices, as a research
project. Yes, I am sort of a Techno-Geek. I
also am an engineering technician and a part
time programmer.

Here is what I have for an input:
Insteon advertizes backwards compatability
with X10 devices. That means, for someone
like me, I won't have to trash all of my X10
devices to 'start' using Insteon. Z-wave and
the other does not offer X10 communication.

Insteon uses a 904 Mhz two-way (that 'two-
way' is very important) network and PLC
communications.

Right now, the Insteon devices seem a bit
pricy. Any new product is that way. Unless
you just 'got to have it right now' I would
recommend waiting about six months before
buying into that.

So far, Insteon does not offer any type of
motion detector. All they have are light
dimmers and appliance modules.

As a hobby, I am trying to build the lowest
priced 100% reliable, security monitoring,
PC based system available, anywhere.

My recent experiences with X10 are that they
will never be 100% reliable. Their customer
support has seemed to have declined. That is
just my opion.

Regards

Ken
Title: Re: activehome pro vs smarthome, do I have this right?
Post by: Brian H on October 15, 2005, 02:32:00 PM
Ken; I am running mine in X10 mode right now.
Still use X10 stuff like chime modules;
touch tone controller and remotes with an
RR501. My early cm15a [AHP] sits in the box
and I have a Smarthome computer interface
right now. One point the Insteon modules do
not mesh network X10 signals, just the
Insteon ones.
Title: Re: activehome pro vs smarthome, do I have this right?
Post by: ben on October 15, 2005, 03:47:50 PM
My summary:
Buy ActiveHome to get the best combination
of module / component deals for your entire
system.  Don't install their CM15a or
Software, put it in a drawer.  Buy
SmartHome 1132cup + RF Antena(if you need
RF) and install it.  You now have a stable
system without investing a lot of wasted
time making things work or abandoning
things that will never work right.
Title: Re: activehome pro vs smarthome, do I have this right?
Post by: arf1410 on October 15, 2005, 03:54:14 PM
Ben - Keep in mind smarthome has
discontinued the 1132CUP product, and not
replaced it with an equivalent.  Though I'm
sure other venders will have it in stock
for a while...
Title: Re: activehome pro vs smarthome, do I have this right?
Post by: raym on October 15, 2005, 03:54:58 PM
Hi Brian,

Yes. The new stuff isn't going to make X10
any more reliable. I spent an extra $210
(couplers and repeaters) in add ons for my
current X10 system and it is still not 100%.

I mainly want a system that will accept the
older, less reliable, X10 stuff, and be
modern enough to let me progress into a
decent 'automation' future. Reliability is
the key word. I have not used the Insteon
products so I cannot comment on that yet.

I have used X10.

Thanks for your input,

Ken

Title: Re: activehome pro vs smarthome, do I have this right?
Post by: john t. on October 15, 2005, 06:06:43 PM
I ordered 1132CUP from SmartHome. Yes it is
discoutinued. Was told they have one more
shipment coming in mid-November of 1,000 units.
I have one backordered. At Brian's
suggestion, I contacted Automated Outlet who
had them in stock. Have one coming next week.
Will either cancel the Smarthome unit, or for
$60 keep it for a spare.

Since hooking up a V572A and TW523, my CM15A
has been working pretty well. I have the
V572A set to transceive only one house code.

I'm pretty new to this stuff, My only real
gripe with the CM15A has been the RF
range....which was fixed by the V572A.

John
Title: Re: activehome pro vs smarthome, do I have this right?
Post by: roger1818 on October 17, 2005, 12:44:29 PM
KenRM said: “Right now, the Insteon devices
seem a bit pricy.”

This is only partially true.  The SwtichLinc
V2 and KeypadLinc V2 Dimmer are cheaper than
their X10 only equivalents (the SwitchLinc
PLC is cheaper, but the Plus and 2-way are
more expensive and the V2 has all the
functionality of the 2-way and more).  I am
not sure why anyone would by a old KeypadLinc
Dimmer or SwitchLinc Plus or 2-way now.  The
SwitchLinc V2 is more expensive than X10
brand wall switches, but that isn’t a fare
comparison.

However, the LampLinc V2 is much more
expensive any of the other LampLinc modules
and the PowerLinc with mControl software is
also much more expensive than the now
obsolete 1132CUP.
Title: Re: activehome pro vs smarthome, do I have this right?
Post by: tcassio on October 17, 2005, 05:01:33 PM
Some corrections are in order.
1.  The price of Insteon Powerlinc V2
controller is 59.99.  The $200 price tag
includes the MContol software.

2. The insteon protocol is Powerline
based.  The RF modules are used for
bridgeing the 2 phases of your electrical
service.  The RFLincs will be used in the
future for Motion sensors and other RF
devices.  But the protocol is POWERLINE
based.

The reason its bundled with the MControl
software is becase its the only software
that suppors the Insteon Prorocol and it is
limited.  Smarthome has not even released
there own software for the powerlinc V2
because they are still working out some
issues with the technology.
Title: Re: activehome pro vs smarthome, do I have this right?
Post by: raym on October 18, 2005, 10:58:44 PM
Hi,
I received my first Insteon devices today. I
set up the two RF bridge/repeater/interfaces
first. I was a little amazed that the
devices were able to tell me (via blinking
LEDs) when I had one plugged into the
opposite phase, thus achieving a phase
coupling (via RF).
I have only had time to play with a V2
LampLinc Insteon Module. The neatest thing
is that I can control it with the Insteon
tabletop controler or via the X10 address
that I programmed into it.
I havn't got the X10 two-way part to work
yet, status requests fail. I'll figure that
out later, and repost.
The devices ship without manuals, I hate
that. You will have to download the PDF
manuals from Smarthome's website.
A good feature is that when the device has
no X10 address loaded (default), your
neighbors cat playing with a remote, (I
actually read that in an X10 reply once),
will no longer be able to randomly make your
devices switch on or off.

Regards,

Ken
Title: Re: activehome pro vs smarthome, do I have this right?
Post by: Brian H on October 19, 2005, 06:58:22 AM
The POwerLinc V2 USB controler is now back
ordered untill 01/02/2006!
Title: Re: activehome pro vs smarthome, do I have this right?
Post by: Decline to state on October 19, 2005, 10:21:46 PM
(Latest word from tech support is that date
is a mistake on the web page.  They're
expecting more product to arrive in a week.)
Title: Re: activehome pro vs smarthome, do I have this right?
Post by: Brian H on October 20, 2005, 04:29:06 PM
Yes I saw that and that there was an update
to the firmware and maybe the hardware.
Title: Re: activehome pro vs smarthome, do I have this right?
Post by: raym on October 30, 2005, 02:28:54 PM
Hi all,

I see this thread every time I come to the
X10 forum. I'm guessing it is a 'default'.
I need to update it, in that the SmartHome
USB Insteon controller is now scheduled to
ship the week of 11 Nov. I am eagerly
awaiting mine.

I am using Insteon and X10 modules 'side by
side' right now. The X10 modules that I can
replace, I will. Insteon may never be 100%,
but, at least it is smart enough to retry
commands until a 'recieved' is ACK.

Ken
Title: Re: activehome pro vs smarthome, do I have this right?
Post by: bud on August 18, 2006, 12:03:09 AM
Have Preset Dim commands been added to AH?  If so what are the modules?
Title: Re: activehome pro vs smarthome, do I have this right?
Post by: Brian H on August 18, 2006, 10:39:48 AM
I don't believe X10 modules do preset dim functions. The LM14A has the ability to turn back on to the last dim it was set to.
Mine will be here today so I may have more data tonight.
Title: Re: activehome pro vs smarthome, do I have this right?
Post by: roger1818 on September 12, 2006, 10:27:13 AM
I don't believe X10 modules do preset dim functions. The LM14A has the ability to turn back on to the last dim it was set to.
Mine will be here today so I may have more data tonight.

The LM14A does support the extended PresetDim and AHP has supported this since day 1 (as long as you declare the module correctly).  It is the obsolete PresetDim command that SmartHome modules use that is not supported by the AHP software (though you can use it with the SDK).