X10 Community Forum

🔌General Home Automation => Automating Your House => Troubleshooting Automation Problems => Topic started by: TakeTheActive on July 13, 2006, 09:18:06 PM

Title: X-10 Checklist (from GROUP:comp.home.automation)
Post by: TakeTheActive on July 13, 2006, 09:18:06 PM
I (just) came across this excellent "X-10 Checklist" over in the comp.home.automation newsgroup:
.
Quote
  • Install a whole house surge suppresser at the breaker box.  Use one for each feed if you have more than one.  Leviton and others make them that are compatible with X10.  You will need an empty 220v breaker slot.
  • Install a "phase" coupler at the breaker box.  You will need an empty 220v breaker slot for this as well.
[Another newsgroup User followed up with: I agree with everything Larry says with one additional recommendation. Instead of the coupler, use an ACT234 Signal Repeater/Coupler.  Rather than just coupling it repeates the signals at a higher level and will provide better coverage throughout the home.]

(Hire an electrician for these two steps if you are not comfortable doing this type of work.  This is nothing to fool around with.)

  • Buy an ELK ESM X10 meter.
  • Buy a handful of X10 filters.  The 5 amp ones are usually enough but if you have a lot on one strip use the 15 amp ones.
  • Put the filters on all of your computers, TV's, video and audio equipment.  If you have any low voltage halogen lights, like puck lights, for under cabinet, in nooks, etc., use one of the wire-in filters to isolate them.  They are great noise generators.
  • Build a list of ALL of your circuits.
  • Put your X10 controller in a "test" mode or get your partner to keep pressing the controller buttons and walk around and measure the signal level at every circuit.  Use a screw in lamp plug to check out lighting circuits.  When you are doing this you should have a good signal without any noise.
  • Do the same thing without any X10 signals.  The Elk meter should be dark.  Any indication is a noise problem.  You will then have to figure out what is causing it.  Do things like start the Heat/AC, appliances, turn off breakers, etc., until you find it.  I have never had any trouble with appliances, AC, etc., generating noise and since they are always on separate circuits anyway they should not be a problem but something is causing your problem.
  • Use a computer based controller that will log valid X10 activity. That will tell you if you have problems with neighbors, or things like the X10 RF modules that have a set of known problems.  If you have neighbor problems then you will have to use a X10 filter on your feed.
  • Don't use house code A or M.
[/size]

Originally created and posted on another Forum by me on Sep/05/2004 @ 1:46 PM
Title: Re: X-10 Checklist (from GROUP:comp.home.automation)
Post by: steven r on July 13, 2006, 09:34:09 PM
You forgot the 1st step...

...Buy a winning lottery ticket to pay for it all.  ;)
Title: Re: X-10 Checklist (from GROUP:comp.home.automation)
Post by: dave w on July 14, 2006, 12:19:23 PM
TaketheActive
Yup, If you want to "get down" with X10, this check list should be required reading.

My $0.02 is; if you are a tinkerer you can make filters from surplus $3 line filters and extension cords. Four bucks a pop makes extensive filtering less painful.

Yeah, but steven r, tell me how to automate any cheaper?
Title: Re: X-10 Checklist (from GROUP:comp.home.automation)
Post by: steven r on July 14, 2006, 01:11:21 PM
... if you are a tinkerer you can make filters from surplus $3 line filters and extension cords. Four bucks a pop makes extensive filtering less painful....
Would you post a parts list / diagram? I've been lucky so far to not need any filters but wouldn't mind having a few around just in case. (I currently have over 6 UPS units in active use as well as assorted other electronic equipment so I figure it's just a matter of time.)

...Yeah, but steven r, tell me how to automate any cheaper?
Well that's just it you really can't automate any cheaper. For the money, X10 is the best home automation deal out there. So what if it's not really "Plug and Play". I just pity the newbies that may not know what their getting into. After you've been using X10 for awhile you begin to understand to value of paying a little extra for more durable parts. e.g. As my old switches die, I plan to replace them with ones that use a neutral wire.

BTW... I know the advantage of the neutral wire switches. My question is: Are both the older 2 wire switches and the newer ones with a neutral connection the same from an energy use stand point? It's just that with the 2 wire ones the X10 signal has to travel though the load. Right?
Title: Re: X-10 Checklist (from GROUP:comp.home.automation)
Post by: dave w on July 19, 2006, 12:45:13 PM
... if you are a tinkerer you can make filters from surplus $3 line filters and extension cords. Four bucks a pop makes extensive filtering less painful....
Would you post a parts list / diagram? I've been lucky so far to not need any filters but wouldn't mind having a few around just in case. (I currently have over 6 UPS units in active use as well as assorted other electronic equipment so I figure it's just a matter of time.)

Sure go here:

http://www.meci.com/product_info.php/cPath/396/products_id/5600104

and buy a bunch. If you are a tinkerer, you won't need a diagram...it's too simple. Cut an extension cord in half and connect the appropriate ends to the "ins" and "outs" of the filter. You do not need to ground the filter, unless whatever you are filtering requires a ground, in that case use a grounded extension cord.

Obviously where the extension cord is soldered to the filter connections, there are live, uninsulted solder connections. Some of my filters I have mounted in plastic boxes, others I have just drizzled a heavy application of hot glue over the connections to insulate them. Not having dogs or children, I can get away with this (hand wringing warnings are NOT solicited, thank you anyway).  And these babies are sooo ugly you have to hide them behind the TVs, microwaves, computers, etc. that you are filtering, anyway.  If your situation isn't the same, mount the the filters in insulating boxes for safety.

MECI has many types of line filters, the 560-0104 work very well (especially effective on switching power supply noise) and they are good for 20 amps. Not all the line filters MECI has work as well.
Title: Re: X-10 Checklist (from GROUP:comp.home.automation)
Post by: dave w on July 19, 2006, 12:48:07 PM
Sorry - didn't use the quote function quite right in the previous response.

[I fixed it for you -- Roger1818]
Title: Re: X-10 Checklist (from GROUP:comp.home.automation)
Post by: steven r on July 19, 2006, 01:08:01 PM
...Sure go here: http://www.meci.com/product_info.php/cPath/396/products_id/5600104...
...If you are a tinkerer, you won't need a diagram...it's too simple....
Thanks!

I thought you were building it from scratch (resistors & everything) when I was thinking I needed a diagram. This should be a breeze. I think I'll put it in a box or at least use some heat shrink tubing as I do have a cat as well as kids that like to watch me blow things up. (I did a demo of how a GFI circuit works by touching a live wire to ground once. Should of run it through a load. My 11 year old loved the sparks.)

Do you think I could get an outlet and the filter into an outlet box?
Title: Re: X-10 Checklist (from GROUP:comp.home.automation)
Post by: steven r on July 19, 2006, 01:16:03 PM
...buy a bunch...
...MECI has many types of line filters, the 560-0104 work very well (especially effective on switching power supply noise) and they are good for 20 amps. Not all the line filters MECI has work as well.
Wow at only $1.95 each with a minimum order of $20. I guess I will be buying at least 11 of them. Maybe I should see if they have any thing else I need.
Title: Re: X-10 Checklist (from GROUP:comp.home.automation)
Post by: phorce1 on July 19, 2006, 01:53:06 PM
Do you think I could get an outlet and the filter into an outlet box?

Size: 5" x 4"

Nope. Not even close.

You could probably search around for some cheap 6"x6"x4" plastic enclosures and build them into those with 2 regular wall outlets mounted to the box-top. You could get fancy even and add a 20amp pop breaker or fuse if you're anal about safety (and want to be able to prove it wasn't your fault in the event of a fire).

Rated 20amp @ 250VAC so it should easily handle 30amp+ @ 110VAC (and the wall outlet you plug it into isn't rated that high so it's a safe build).

I wish it showed a spec sheet telling what frequency range it attenuates and how much.
Title: Re: X-10 Checklist (from GROUP:comp.home.automation)
Post by: steven r on July 19, 2006, 02:07:56 PM
..I wish it showed a spec sheet telling what frequency range it attenuates and how much...
Me too but for $1.95 what can you expect. If they've worked for you that's enough for me. I suppose if one weren't enough filtering, you could pair a couple of them.

When I first saw the $20 minimum order I had visions of a drawer full of extra filters. As I've explored the site more I've come to realize just spending $20 will be a challenge. I feel like a kid in a candy shop.
Title: Re: X-10 Checklist (from GROUP:comp.home.automation)
Post by: Smokin Paul on July 19, 2006, 10:44:41 PM
Hi Dave,

   I just ordered the in line filters.

> Sure go here:
> http://www.meci.com/product_info.php/cPath/396/products_id/5600104

Has anyone here noticed if these filters reduce or filter out x10 signals? Has anyone noticed X10 signals getting weaker after they were installed? I do have an XTB X10 amplifier that gives me a strong x10 signal level so I am hoping it will not be a problem.

If they are x10 signal suckers I could always use them behind my existing filters to increase their effectiveness.
Title: Re: X-10 Checklist (from GROUP:comp.home.automation)
Post by: Charles Sullivan on July 19, 2006, 11:35:46 PM
Luckily I haven't needed to use X10 noise filters in my house. 

The ideal X10 noise filter would look like a short circuit to 120 KHz as seen from the appliance plugged into it but look like an open circuit to the same frequency as seen from the power line side.  However "ordinary" noise filters usually act as short circuits to high frequencies from either side and will normally attenuate X10 signals as well as any noise, i.e., just be signal-suckers.

I wasn't able to locate the manufacturer's part number (Cornell-Dublier Mfg P/N: APFV20316) provided for this line filter by MECI  on the Cornell-Dubilier website (http://www.cde.com) so it's difficult to judge whether it would help, hurt. or do nothing insofar as X10 signals are concerned.  Perhaps someone else will have better luck.

Title: Re: X-10 Checklist (from GROUP:comp.home.automation)
Post by: JeffVolp on July 20, 2006, 10:16:31 AM
X10 filters are specifically designed to block passage of X10 signals without presenting a load on those signals.  Industrial and military surplus filters are designed to protect equipment from line noise.  X10 signals are line noise.

Often these filters have a diagram on the top with values.  From that you can determine whether it will be helpful in an X10 application.  A filter that has a capacitor directly across its input terminals may attenuate X10 signals on the circuit it is connected to.  How much it attenuates is determined by the capacitor value.

Title: Re: X-10 Checklist (from GROUP:comp.home.automation)
Post by: dave w on July 20, 2006, 12:46:42 PM
Smokin Paul and others

YES the URL MECI filter I referenced,  stops X10 in its tracks. You need to place the filter AT the noise source with any X10 control between the line and the filter.

Internally the can is a low pass,  L-C, PI filter.  Each line has a series inductor, so I don't think phorce1 is correct in thinking it would be good to 30 amp, since full 30 amp would be going through each coil when used at 120V.

I have never o'scope'ed the filters response, and component values are not shown on the can, but I bet roll off is faily steep after a kilohertz or two.

As far as the $20 minimum order..."MECI",  "Electronic Goldmine",  "All Electronics" etc, have so much neato stuff that  I got 20 bucks spent by the time I get to page three of the catalog(s). I had not even thought about the minimum order limit when posting the URL. Sorry to all.
Title: Re: X-10 Checklist (from GROUP:comp.home.automation)
Post by: JimC on July 20, 2006, 01:53:56 PM
Quote
I had not even thought about the minimum order limit when posting the URL. Sorry to all.
  No need for an apology. This site has so many interesting things I find it hard to believe that anyone would have trouble meeting the minimum. Dave W, If you have other links that are this good please pass them along.

Jim
Title: Re: X-10 Checklist (from GROUP:comp.home.automation)
Post by: steven r on July 20, 2006, 02:47:20 PM
...This site has so many interesting things I find it hard to believe that anyone would have trouble meeting the minimum. Dave W, If you have other links that are this good please pass them along...
Ditto to that.
I imagine they have to have the minimum to cover expenses since they appear to be giving the stuff away.
Title: Re: X-10 Checklist (from GROUP:comp.home.automation)
Post by: roger1818 on July 25, 2006, 11:20:29 AM
I wasn't able to locate the manufacturer's part number (Cornell-Dublier Mfg P/N: APFV20316) provided for this line filter by MECI  on the Cornell-Dubilier website (http://www.cde.com) so it's difficult to judge whether it would help, hurt. or do nothing insofar as X10 signals are concerned.  Perhaps someone else will have better luck.

Considering that Cornell-Dublier is a capacitor manufacturer, I would highly suspect that it is a noise trap which will absorb X10 signals instead of blocking them and thus would not be suitable.  I do not have any direct experience with this filter so I may be proven wrong.
Title: Re: X-10 Checklist (from GROUP:comp.home.automation)
Post by: dave w on July 25, 2006, 12:38:34 PM
OK JimC and steven r

In no particular order, my favorite places ;-)

http://www.allelectronics.com/
http://www.goldmine-elec.com/default.htm
http://www.meci.com/
http://www.sciplus.com/
http://www.discovercircuits.com/
http://www.hvwtech.com/
Title: Re: X-10 Checklist (from GROUP:comp.home.automation)
Post by: steven r on July 25, 2006, 01:48:02 PM
OK JimC and steven r

In no particular order, my favorite places ;-)

http://www.allelectronics.com/
http://www.goldmine-elec.com/default.htm
http://www.meci.com/
http://www.sciplus.com/
http://www.discovercircuits.com/
http://www.hvwtech.com/

Thanks! I emailed www.goldmine-elec.com/default.htm with a question and they got back to me in less than 30 minutes! That's good customer service! They've earned bonus points with me for that!
Title: Re: X-10 Checklist (from GROUP:comp.home.automation)
Post by: JimC on July 25, 2006, 02:10:20 PM
Thanks Dave
Title: Re: X-10 Checklist (from GROUP:comp.home.automation)
Post by: steven r on August 03, 2006, 05:44:17 PM
I ordered my filters the other day. My $20 minmum order cost over $13 to ship the cheapest way. Unless those filters weight a lot, I figure they're making money on the shipping. (I still think I got a good deal, however.)

I found the perfect 18" cords (On sale 5 for $8.49) to use with them from SmartHome when I ordered my ESM1. Check out the cords here (http://www.smarthome.com/97316a.html).
Title: Re: X-10 Checklist (from GROUP:comp.home.automation)
Post by: Don N on August 03, 2006, 08:30:05 PM
steven r    I'm going to buy some of those "cheap" filters from MECI too.  And I like the 18" cords you found from SmartHome.  But I have a question, the cords have a ground wire and the filters look like they only have two connects.   Do I just not cut the ground wire when I splice in the filter?  Thanks.
Title: Re: X-10 Checklist (from GROUP:comp.home.automation)
Post by: steven r on August 03, 2006, 09:58:17 PM
...I have a question, the cords have a ground wire and the filters look like they only have two connects. Do I just not cut the ground wire when I splice in the filter?...
Actually the picture looks like it does have a ground point!
If not, do not cut the ground wire but let it continue unbroken. Trim back the other wires as needed for esthetics.
After I get my filters, I'm headed to Radio Shack for boxes. I'll feel a bit safer that way. If I don't find a box to my liking, I plan to cover my connections with heat shrink tubing. I'm not crazy about exposed wires.
While they can be used with a two wire cord, all of my UPS boxes (I currently have 6 in use.) have grounded plugs and I don't want to defeat their grounding.
Title: Re: X-10 Checklist (from GROUP:comp.home.automation)
Post by: steven r on August 03, 2006, 10:05:22 PM
dave w:

Do the filters have a grounding point? If so, does it help for our purposes to connect the ground line?
i.e. Do you have any idea if the filter is wired to benefit from having a ground?
Title: Re: X-10 Checklist (from GROUP:comp.home.automation)
Post by: Duck69 on August 03, 2006, 11:56:55 PM
I'm very interested in these filters and have a few extension cords that my dog chewed up  ;D ,that could be put to good use with these filters.
I've noticed that some have ordered the filters. Has anyone installed them as yet ?
If so. What were the results ? Helped, didn't help or caused X10 problems ???
Anxious to hear the results !
Jim
Title: Re: X-10 Checklist (from GROUP:comp.home.automation)
Post by: steven r on August 04, 2006, 12:08:47 AM
...I've noticed that some have ordered the filters. Has anyone installed them as yet ?...
dave w has been using them for awhile. I made an order based on his earlier post in this discussion. Haven't received mine yet.
Title: Re: X-10 Checklist (from GROUP:comp.home.automation)
Post by: roger1818 on August 04, 2006, 09:11:47 AM
While they can be used with a two wire cord, all of my UPS boxes (I currently have 6 in use.) have grounded plugs and I don't want to defeat their grounding.

I wouldn't bother using these filters with your UPSes.  Most if not all UPSes have noise traps similar to these filters and shoudl do a good job of filtering out the noise.  The problem with noise traps is that they will absorb the X10 signal.  What you really need is a noise block not a noise trap.
Title: Re: X-10 Checklist (from GROUP:comp.home.automation)
Post by: Duck69 on August 04, 2006, 09:50:28 AM
From what dave w said "YES the URL MECI filter I referenced,  stops X10 in its tracks. You need to place the filter AT the noise source with any X10 control between the line and the filter.". I don't anticipate have a problem. I  am planning to use these for a couple of TV's and stereo that doesn't have any kind of X10 control. So, I imagine plugging them in and then plugging the TV's & stereo into them would be OK.
Am I wrong ? If I am, please let me know so that I can avoid any problems.
Thanks
Jim
Title: Re: X-10 Checklist (from GROUP:comp.home.automation)
Post by: steven r on August 04, 2006, 10:06:48 AM
...I wouldn't bother using these filters with your UPSes.  Most if not all UPSes have noise traps similar to these filters and shoudl do a good job of filtering out the noise.  The problem with noise traps is that they will absorb the X10 signal.  What you really need is a noise block not a noise trap.
Argh... Am I getting the wrong thing? At least two of my UPS units are generating noise or otherwise sucking my X10 signal. It was my understanding that this is how dave w used his.

I'm a bit rusty on my electronic theory. How do blocks and filters work? Are they one way. i.e. Do filters/blocks in one direction? If so what happens if you reverse them.
Title: Re: X-10 Checklist (from GROUP:comp.home.automation)
Post by: roger1818 on August 04, 2006, 10:33:24 AM
From what dave w said "YES the URL MECI filter I referenced,  stops X10 in its tracks. You need to place the filter AT the noise source with any X10 control between the line and the filter.". I don't anticipate have a problem. I  am planning to use these for a couple of TV's and stereo that doesn't have any kind of X10 control. So, I imagine plugging them in and then plugging the TV's & stereo into them would be OK.
Am I wrong ? If I am, please let me know so that I can avoid any problems.

I am not saying that it will cause any problems, it just won't do much for you.  There are two types of noise filters, noise traps and noise blocks and as I said earlier, the MECI filter is probably a noise trap.   A noise trap filters the noise by attracting the noise (including X10 signals) to it on either side of the filter and sucking the noise up .   A noise block however will keep the noise on one side of the filter and the X10 signal on the other side of the filter. 

If your problem is powerline noise and you have a very strong X10 signal, a noise trap will help you out, but if your problem is signal strength, a noise trap will actually weaken your X10 signal.  It is because your UPS has a noise trap that you want to plug it into a noise block as it will prevent the X10 signal from getting to (and thus being absorbed by) the noise trap inside the UPS.

I hope this clarifies things a bit.
Title: Re: X-10 Checklist (from GROUP:comp.home.automation)
Post by: roger1818 on August 04, 2006, 10:59:04 AM
I'm a bit rusty on my electronic theory. How do blocks and filters work? Are they one way. i.e. Do filters/blocks in one direction? If so what happens if you reverse them.

They are bi-directional.  A simple noise trap is a capacitor which is connected to neutral and a simple noise block is inductor in series with the hot line.  More complex filters will use a network of capacitors and inductors.  Theoretically a filter could be a block on one side and a trap on the other, but most are either traps on both sides or blocks on both sides.  If you all you are wanting to do is prevent your UPS from sucking signal, a simple noise block should be adequate.  You could probably butcher an X10 Pro XPPF to make several (3?) simple noise blocks.
Title: Re: X-10 Checklist (from GROUP:comp.home.automation)
Post by: steven r on August 04, 2006, 11:40:43 AM
...Do filters/blocks in one direction? If so what happens if you reverse them.
...They are bi-directional....
I haven't seen the filters yet but dave w described them as having "in" and "out" sides. Why would a bi-directional filter need an "in" and an "out"?

As mentioned earlier...
...Internally the can is a low pass,  L-C, PI filter.  Each line has a series inductor...
Title: Re: X-10 Checklist (from GROUP:comp.home.automation)
Post by: dave w on August 04, 2006, 01:17:22 PM
Wohoo! Let me weigh in on this. I guess I wasn't clear enough when talking about the MECI line filters in the first place.

1. The MECI line filters I am using are blocks. They are low pass filters. They pass 60Hz really good. They pass 100kHz really bad. I have never connected an audio generator and o'scope to one, so can not elaborate on the roll-off, but would guess 1KHz and above. No component values are given on the filter.

2.They seem to work equally well whether grounded or not, which is a hint as to how much signal sucking (or shunting the signal to ground) could be taking place.

3 " IN" and "OUT refers my connection of a two or three wire extension cords for input (plug end) and output (socket end). I don't have one that I can look at, but do not remember any contact lugs marked as IN or OUT. It is just a simple PI filter, so I don't think it gives a rip about orientation.

4. Since the filters do not PASS the X10 signal, they may lessen or stop the "signal sucking" effects some UPS seem to do, if the UPS is plugged into the filter. (Through the filter, those UPS's would actually look like a very high impedance to ground to 100KHz , rather than a very low impedance to ground). As you can guess I have no UPS.

I do have nine or so of these home brew line filters, mostly on devices with very noisy switching power supplies (Toshiba big screen, CFL torchires, microwave(s), etc. and in a previous home, a Lennox Pulse furnace).

BTW a synapse just fired and I remember something (any applause in recognition of this unusual feat is appreciated). When we first got the furnace, I could not get any X10 down that branch. After installing the filter in the furnace, the branch became usable to X10. I have two of the ELK signal level meters and there was not huge amounts of noise riding on the furnace branch, which caused fits of frustration in the trouble shooting. This decade old experience may have been my first experience with a "signal sucker". If it was, there is hope for you guys with sucking UPS units.
Going back to sleep now.
Title: Re: X-10 Checklist (from GROUP:comp.home.automation)
Post by: steven r on August 04, 2006, 02:03:23 PM
...a synapse just fired and I remember something (any applause in recognition of this unusual feat is appreciated)....
Clap, clap and thanks for the update.
I'll post my results using them with UPSs after I try them.
Title: Re: X-10 Checklist (from GROUP:comp.home.automation)
Post by: steven r on August 04, 2006, 02:14:15 PM
...They seem to work equally well whether grounded or not, which is a hint as to how much signal sucking (or shunting the signal to ground) could be taking place....
So I'll be fine just wiring the neutral and live wires and leaving the grounded wire uncut?

BTW... I have an old Isobar noise & surge protector that works well for isolating signal suckers. Too bad I can't buy a bunch of those for $1.95 each.  :)
Title: Re: X-10 Checklist (from GROUP:comp.home.automation)
Post by: dave w on August 04, 2006, 03:03:14 PM
[So I'll be fine just wiring the neutral and live wires and leaving the grounded wire uncut?


Yup. I have them with ground/no ground and see no difference in performance.

I definitely am interested in hearing how they work on your UPS.

Good luck
Title: Re: X-10 Checklist (from GROUP:comp.home.automation)
Post by: steven r on August 07, 2006, 02:48:38 PM
I got my filters today! Boy are they huge, ugly beasts. I don't care if they work, however.

The wires I plan to use them with are on a separate order from somewhere else, however. I think I'll pick up a cord or 2 locally till I get my order.
These have the circuit diagram printed on them! Wish I had a way to post it here for the electronic Gurus to evaluate. I do plan to connect a ground wire as the circuit goes to ground between 2 .0047 UF caps. They also do have "Line" and "load" sides marked.

As a side note... I was please to see that they had recycled a Smirnoff box for shipping. (Box was turned inside out.) Yeah for recycling!
Title: Re: X-10 Checklist (from GROUP:comp.home.automation)
Post by: steven r on August 07, 2006, 03:39:03 PM
Very crude circuit drawing of filter.

      o--------+------mmmmm-------+--------+---------+------mmmmm------+-----------o
L              !          /       !        !         =          /      !                L
I              !         /        !        >         !         /       !                O
N    o--G      =        /         =        <         +--G     /        =                A
E              !       /          !        >         !       /         !                D
               !      /           !        !         =      /          !
      o--------+------mmmmm-------+--------+---------+------mmmmm------+-----------o

o   - connecting point on outside of filter
!   - vertical connecting wire
mmm - coil
G   - ground
=   - cap
>
<   - resister
>


Coils are underlined with a dotted line and there is a connecting dotted line between the coils.

L = 2 X .440 MH
R = 1 X 10 Meg Ohms
C = 3 X 0.10 UF
   = 2 X .0047 UF

I'm guessing that the ground is connected between the two .0047 UF caps.

Hope this crude drawing helps someone out there understand it. I've forgotten what the pair of coils with a dotted line between them means.

[I hope you don't mind, but I cleaned up your drawing using "Preformated text." -- roger1818]
Title: Re: X-10 Checklist (from GROUP:comp.home.automation)
Post by: JeffVolp on August 07, 2006, 05:41:41 PM
Unfortunately, this will be a pretty good X10 signal sucker.  The .1uF directly across the line looks like just 13 ohms to the X10 signal.  A transmitter like the PSC05 is rated for 60 mW average into a 5 ohm load.

To put this in perspective, the “cheap” phase coupler recommended by some is just a .1uF 600V capacitor across the two phases.
Title: Re: X-10 Checklist (from GROUP:comp.home.automation)
Post by: roger1818 on August 08, 2006, 02:50:14 PM
Unfortunately, this will be a pretty good X10 signal sucker.

I agree.  It might not cause you problems if you have a strong signal and the filters are on circuts that don't use X10, but it wouldn't be my first pick for an X10 noise filter.  It certainly won't help resolve issues with signal sucking devices.

BTW. Thanks Steven for the drawing!
Title: Re: X-10 Checklist (from GROUP:comp.home.automation)
Post by: dave w on August 08, 2006, 04:36:02 PM
After seeing the component values, I can see where Jeff and Roger are coming from (my newest filter is a couple years old and none of my filters are in positions to easily see the cans). However I do use the filters on circuits that use X10...even have X10 controller plugged into same outlet as the filter I have on the noisy Toshiba big screen, and have stong signal at outlet and all other outlets on branch. Jury is still out, please post results after installing.
Title: Re: X-10 Checklist (from GROUP:comp.home.automation)
Post by: steven r on August 08, 2006, 06:37:13 PM
It's been awhile since I did any serious soldering and my work is not the best but the 1st prototype is helping!
After plugging one UPS into it, things are working where they weren't working before.
After I get my ESM1, I'll run some tests and post the results.
Title: Re: X-10 Checklist (from GROUP:comp.home.automation)
Post by: dave w on August 09, 2006, 12:34:32 PM
Yeah, this is same results I had with our Lennox furnace. After I installed the filter I had signal all over the branch where I did not prior to installing the filter in the furnace. I had an X10 appliance module, controlling the furnace fan, wired into the line side of the filter and never had a problem getting signal to the appliance module. I don't think "signal sucking" from these filters is much of an issue. Put it this way; having actually used the filters, I don't experience it, but I DO have a good repeater.